Another 442 "work in progress" Tactic

[thokk]

I came directly from FM13 to fm16 demo (just recently) and have been testing some tactics on my own and some from this forum (cleon, thanks for the nice tutorials!). The increasing detailed and the difficulty to make something that works, appeal me to buy the game.

I'm slowly writing this while I've been playing for a few days, so some screens could be older than the current game day.

I've chosen the flat 442 as the tactic and Benfica as the club. Probably the 1st time I choose my favorite club from the beginning, normally I manage them after several years of the starting season!

Now, how do I see the team playing?

Initial plan:

Defensively, as a flat 442 indicates, (or almost, I would like to see one of the FW messing with the opponents DM). Offensively, I had 3 key players in mind: Gaitan, Nelson and Jonas. Gaitan in the playmaker role, Nelson as offensive FullBack (high speed and reasonable dribble and crossing) and Jonas as... Well, vagabond (to be where is needed). I wanted both of the flank midfielders to go inside, to create space for Jonas and the full backs, especially the right side. Both CM lurking outside of the area and a little deeper to receive passes/change flank and longshots.

Kind of what the picture illustrates:

The initial options were:

Control (I would like to play attacking football);

Fluid (getting the team more involved would make them to work as a block);

Higher Defense (to reduce space);

After some friendlies, the players were somehow apart, so, short passing and retain possession was on too (now I understood what Herne79 wrote ).

Here it goes the actual tactic:

After some competitive matches, this were my best rating players (Gaitan and Nelson with the best avg rating and Jonas as the best scorer):

And the results (not that bad, but not excellent):

I especially enjoyed the game against Maritimo, down to 10 man all match (Samaris went off on minute 6), I didn't notice we were playing with one less player! The game I really didn't enjoy was against Estoril (more details in the end of this post).

The game against Real M. was a mess, I knew it would be a mess, but I wanted to stress and test the tactic (if I remember correctly, suffered two goals on counter attack...).

Strong points:

1. The RB can cross many times alone. Really many times.

2. Lots of space in the flanks, getting players to cross at the end line.

3. (almost) always a free man to pass

I'm slowly trying to do minor tweaks to see the results. Currently problems that i'm facing/could be facing:

1. Higher defense with slow CB (possibly solutions: pressing? New players?)

2. Lack of DM (I didn't face a team with 2 FW and 1AM, how could the team deal with such situation?)

3. Opponent team with a DM playmaker (also, I didn't face such player, i've already tried to change the role of the ST1 to Defensive FW defense, but he didn't challenge the DM...)

4. Shots/opportunities. Only 30% of them on target. I've seen a lot of them blocked on the outside central area (at some point it's just to crowd in there, didn't try it yet, but untick the go inside of the the LW playmaker could help, or maybe work ball inside the area...)

About this last point:

A match with 24 shots from my side, only 4 on target (opponent team 2 out of 3).

Now, I would like suggestions, please do criticize, but explain it like I was really dumb

Ps. next few matches i'll try to use the “work ball inside the are” and see how the team reacts to it.

[thokk]

reserved

[summatsupeer]

I would keep an eye on your two central midfielders and the right wide midfielder. Having all 3 on support could cause a lack of depth and cover that something like a CM-D would provide between the CB's and the supporting midfielders.

[johnnyyakuza78]

Only thing I would say is that it seems like you are pegging opponents back into their penalty area a lot, and they are sitting back and defending, making it very hard for you to create any good opportunities.

Partly this is your slightly attacking set up, but I think mostly it might have to do with your passing style, which is probably a little too short for my liking, making it predictable and relatively easy to defend against.

Also your central area could potentially get a little crowded with your entire midfield heading there. You might consider staggering your roles, have one winger go wide, one go inside for instance, to stretch the play a bit more.

In circumstances where you are having teams park the bus you could consider playing wider and deeper to make the pitch a bit bigger and harder to defend.

Otherwise all looks good.

[herne79]

Good start .

I think you are right when you say you are just looking at minor tweaks now, I don't believe any major changes are needed.

As Summatsupeer above says, you could probably give one of the MCs a defend duty. That will help the defensive screen, and also help you when you face an opponent using an AMC player (something you have already identified as a potential issue). I'd change the MCR player to help cover the attacking fullback on that flank.

Another issue you identify is "1. Higher defense with slow CB (possibly solutions: pressing? New players?)". You are using the Control mentality, which comes with quite a high def line set by default. To that you add a Team Instruction to make it even higher. That may leave you over exposed behind your defenders in some cases, so consider dropping the TI back to normal if you notice a problem.

Because you are using a Fluid team shape, shouts that reduce space (Shorter Passing and Retain Possession), a mentality with a fairly high def line, and (potentially) your MCR with a defend duty, I doubt you will be leaving much space in your DM area for opposition teams to exploit. Something to keep an eye on perhaps.

The only other comment I have regards a midfield runner to support attacks and defence. Watch how the CM(S) plays, make sure he is getting up to support attacks (and back to help out defensively). A Control mentality may help him offensively here, just make sure he is pulling is weight in defence as well.

[Markymark886]

Both cm should be on d to protect the defence

[RTHerringbone]

Both cm should be on d to protect the defence

Care to elaborate? It can absolutely stifle any build up play through the middle if you set up so conservatively. Certainly a 4-4-2 benefits from one player on Defend Duty in the middle, but two is probably far too "negative" for many people.

[noikeee]

Lower tempo always helps me when it comes to increasing shots on target, as with higher tempo players often rush to a bad decision and when they don't have the time to figure out other options, that decision usually is to shoot. Also you could give the "shoots less often" PI to any players that tend to have too many speculative shots from long, I do this sometimes with midfielders.

[callamity]

Care to elaborate? It can absolutely stifle any build up play through the middle if you set up so conservatively. Certainly a 4-4-2 benefits from one player on Defend Duty in the middle, but two is probably far too "negative" for many people.

This seems to be a common interpretation for people who think the 442 has the same midfield balance as a 4231 and that the 2 cm's must be holding players.

I'm quite surprised that they're arent more 442's after teams like leicester, watford etc and the way they have played this season. it has been exciting to watch

[Cleon]

This seems to be a common interpretation for people who think the 442 has the same midfield balance as a 4231 and that the 2 cm's must be holding players.

I'm quite surprised that they're arent more 442's after teams like leicester, watford etc and the way they have played this season. it has been exciting to watch

It seems to be all I see people using these days and there's about 10 posts on these forums about the 442 currently.

[callamity]

It seems to be all I see people using these days and there's about 10 posts on these forums about the 442 currently.

That's right, oversight on my part only remembering herne's and this when I posted.

[fmjeros]

I recently started a save with Leicester trying to replicate their style of football. When i took over and saw the pace of the central defenders i was wondering how the hell i am gonna make a successful 442 with those defenders, is Ranieri better than me ? i really doubt it i am playing 20 years football manager...I started with flexible and 3 TI's (pass into space,roam from position,prevent short GK distribution). In the midfield duo i opted for a MC on defend and b2b midfielder but after seeing how aggressive was on his positioning i changed to DLP(support). Again he was too much focus of our play and wasn't what i wanted. I even tried MCd + BWMd (awful combo). In an article from this site http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/12/15/leicester-city-premier-league-ranieri-vardy-mahrez-tactics-epl it is perfectly explained how they play

"The Foxes squeeze the available attacking space and tend to leave opponents frustrated, even when the numbers would suggest that they should be outnumbered in the middle. Leicester can play with two central midfielders against the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 systems of the modern game and still keep opponents out of dangerous areas because of the concentration of numbers."

I was desperate to try to implement this concept in football manager. Then i was reading RT's article on his 4141 and he mentioned that he wanted a disciplined MC and had him with a TI hold position (one that i have never used before or even think about it). I said what the hell i will try it. It was only a pi but it changed the whole playing style of the team. After 3 or 4 games i switched to fluid to compact the space even more, and the show started,the slow defenders now are solid and aren't exposed by fast and pacey strikers, both Drinkwater and Kante boss the midfield. The only problem going fluid was the transitions as i expected it, due to the fact that the lines are more compact the players now have to cover more distance in order to break through counter. But you have to accept you have to give something in order to gain something else.

so the tactic is counter fluid and the TI's now are higher tempo,pass into space and prevent short GK distribution

[nick1408]

Did you end up getting it to work? I'm trying to get the same thing going at the moment and am curious what PI's you ended up with.

[thokk]

It seems to be all I see people using these days and there's about 10 posts on these forums about the 442 currently.

Well, i only saw 2 (3 with my own). Unfortunate, i don't have much time to play nor reading everything.

I would keep an eye on your two central midfielders and the right wide midfielder. Having all 3 on support could cause a lack of depth and cover that something like a CM-D would provide between the CB's and the supporting midfielders.

Don't know why I never thought about it! I've considered so many different roles, and the simple one was right there! With this role, the team works a lot better defensively and unexpected offensively too (a “new” pass line).

Good start .

Another issue you identify is "1. Higher defense with slow CB (possibly solutions: pressing? New players?)". You are using the Control mentality, which comes with quite a high def line set by default. To that you add a Team Instruction to make it even higher. That may leave you over exposed behind your defenders in some cases, so consider dropping the TI back to normal if you notice a problem.

Because you are using a Fluid team shape, shouts that reduce space (Shorter Passing and Retain Possession), a mentality with a fairly high def line, and (potentially) your MCR with a defend duty, I doubt you will be leaving much space in your DM area for opposition teams to exploit. Something to keep an eye on perhaps.

Something to try in a few matches. Thanks.

The only other comment I have regards a midfield runner to support attacks and defence. Watch how the CM(S) plays, make sure he is getting up to support attacks (and back to help out defensively). A Control mentality may help him offensively here, just make sure he is pulling is weight in defence as well.

I didn't consider the BBM position, to many options on the opponent area, but it's a role I really like.

Only thing I would say is that it seems like you are pegging opponents back into their penalty area a lot, and they are sitting back and defending, making it very hard for you to create any good opportunities.

Partly this is your slightly attacking set up, but I think mostly it might have to do with your passing style, which is probably a little too short for my liking, making it predictable and relatively easy to defend against.

Also your central area could potentially get a little crowded with your entire midfield heading there. You might consider staggering your roles, have one winger go wide, one go inside for instance, to stretch the play a bit more.

In circumstances where you are having teams park the bus you could consider playing wider and deeper to make the pitch a bit bigger and harder to defend.

Otherwise all looks good.

Everything you said it's true. Gaitan was injured for almost 2 months (btw, he was on the subs in the world best team), and since I don't have/consider to have another playmaker to that position, have decided to change his role, from wide playmaker to wide midfielder and without the cut inside option. Now, the opponent PK is lees crowed than before, and the shots I get are hitting the target about 45% (before was 30%).

I'm not yet too comfortable/confident with the current set up, so, parallel to this tactic, i'm using a 442, with other roles and counter attack to go against higher rank teams (it did work against R. Madrid). Herne79, on that one the BBM is there

The season it's in the beginning of January. The results are more or less the same, not bad, but not excellent. 1st place in the league and out of the champions and euro cup (had the same points that the 2nd place... :x).

[thokk]

So, time for an update.

Right now, i'm on season 2 (December).

In the 1st season i've made a lot of minor tweaks, but in the end, i didn't like the season, finished in 2nd place, out of champions too early (bottom of the group), the only trophy i got was the league cup. Worst of all was the way that the team played, especially offensively, lots of shots on goal, but most of them blocked, by the time I got the ball in the penalty area there were already a full defensive parked team (great possession for nothing). Defensively, the team gave away too much space between the GK and the central defenders (early incorrectly analysis, the problem was on the midfield, that couldn't control the troughs balls leaving the CBs in awful positions).

Despite of knowing what was wrong, I continue to do minor tweaks and doing some experiments, after all it was my 1st season on FM16.

New season, new tactic... Here it goes the current setup, a more direct football, but trying to maintain a cohesive team (the reason that possession it's “on”):

The only thing that changed from this initial setup was the left midfielder. Initially I though that 2 playmakers would be too many, so I set him as WM. But Gaitan ratings were dropping too much, so went back a gave him again the playmaker role. Well, I think it's working.

Parallel to this i'm less “afraid” to make major changes in the matches, like for instances, swap the WM players and push them to IF.

In this experimentation, and for the 1st time I really felt what I did was determinant for the outcome result, and that was against FCP (last season played 3 times against them, all of them were even matches, 1st leading the score, but in the end resulting in 2 losses and 1 draw).

Looking at the initial setups, I was afraid (again) that a potential close match ended as a bad result. So, what to do? The main problem with the 442, it's having 2 ST players in attack that have little active participation in defending, and I wanted a third man there... Well, I've put one of the ST marking the CM (probably working as playmaker).

Watching the initial 15minutes, and ignoring everything else, just looking at what the ST was doing... I was WOW! It was working, but better than intended! Without the ball, he was eating the CM boots, the opponent team almost ignored that CM, without the ball, in offensive transition it was like a BBM in a more advanced position! He made interceptions and was launching counter attacks.

Right now i'm reading (again) some good threads and tutorials made by the community, and it makes more sense.