Best tactic, type of manager and OI

[Unitedred]

Hiya guys, thank god I found a forum where I can find people like me who play this game, I'm in the need for some tips, like asap as I'm into my second save on FM16, and we've lost 7 league games in 16 as Man United .

First off, tactics aren't my strong point, but what's the best tac you've used on FM16?, I've alternated between several this season, and can't seem to find one that just clicks. My main tactics are 4-4-1-1, 4231 wide, and 442. I've had poor performances using different ones, I've also just come off the back of a 1-0 defeat to 20th placed Crystal Palace, despite seemingly dominating the game.

Secondly, when you first start off on a game, what sort of manager do you tend to see yourself as?, I've gone constantly for tactical as a way of brushing up on my skills, but on FM15, I had it set half way between tracksuit and tactical, helping me on the way to 2 PL titles, 6 LC trophies and 4 FA Cups, not sure if there's a hint there as on this FM, I'm doing very, very bad. I prefer at the moment being tactical as it's probably the worst part of my game.

Thirdly, with my OI, I tend to get my ass man to give the advice on who to slam to the ground and what not, Ivan Caramanti is my guy, and I've just been leaving it to him, should I? or should I take his advice and add my own?,

I have Martial as the usual up front striker, playing as a complete forward on attack, Memphis & Mata usually feeding him in on the wings with Shaw & Darmian as attacking wing backs, Schwein & Schnied/Herrera as the usual midfielders alternating as attacking midfielders or advanced playmakers, I've got Calum Chambers & Phil Jones/Chris Smalling playing as complete centre backs, putting Jones as cover, Chambers as defend. Also switching between De Gea & Valdes in goal as I don't think De Gea is playing to his full potential.

I tend to play high tempo and usually with an attacking mentality, closing down more, direct passing and between look for overlap and hit early crosses, be more expressive and stay on feet are also two instructions I tend to use more than others. but also, something I'm not sure if I should be doing, I tend to have 7-10 instructions per tactic, using some of the above, I don't actually know if that's the right way to go about it.

Edit: Sorry if you need more info, just ask, if there's anything I've missed out that's important I'll be happy to add it, it's my first thread on here

[RTHerringbone]

Please read this thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327822-Asking-For-Help-PLEASE-READ-THIS

[noikeee]

Hiya guys, thank god I found a forum where I can find people like me who play this game, I'm in the need for some tips, like asap as I'm into my second save on FM16, and we've lost 7 league games in 16 as Man United .

First off, tactics aren't my strong point, but what's the best tac you've used on FM16?, I've alternated between several this season, and can't seem to find one that just clicks. My main tactics are 4-4-1-1, 4231 wide, and 442. I've had poor performances using different ones, I've also just come off the back of a 1-0 defeat to 20th placed Crystal Palace, despite seemingly dominating the game.

There isn't such a thing as a "best" tactic, people are having success with a few completely different setups. It also depends immensely on the characteristics of your squad. Well, unless you go to the Downloads forum and just get one of the best there, it might well give you wonder results, but chances are it'll stop working by the next game update.

That being said, there does seem to be some formation and settings that the match engine is "friendlier" to. Hint: I've seen people around having massive success with a counter-attacking 4-1-4-1; with a "normal" 4-3-3 (4-1DM-2MCs-2AML/R-1); and with a normal straight attacking 4-4-2 playing everything down the wings. I play a 4-2-3-1 myself and am doing "merely" alright. Not sure I've seen anyone overachieving massively with a 4-2-3-1 in this match engine.

But before any of those considerations, the first thing you need to do is to stop using 3 completely different formations. Sometimes just changing 1 role or 2 can make a huge difference. If you change EVERYTHING from match to match, how can you track what works for you and what doesn't? Just pick one and start from there.

Secondly, when you first start off on a game, what sort of manager do you tend to see yourself as?, I've gone constantly for tactical as a way of brushing up on my skills, but on FM15, I had it set half way between tracksuit and tactical, helping me on the way to 2 PL titles, 6 LC trophies and 4 FA Cups, not sure if there's a hint there as on this FM, I'm doing very, very bad. I prefer at the moment being tactical as it's probably the worst part of my game.

Choosing a "tactical manager" won't make your tactics play better at all. It just means you'll have more points to assign to the attributes on that category. What those attributes actually do is debatable and a little unknown. This is my interpretation of what they do:

Adaptability - likeliness of being offered a job abroad

Player Knowledge/Youngster Knowledge - being able to see the attributes of more players without having to scout them first

Determination/Level of Discipline - I think they do little beyond multiplying by the training attributes, so high points here will make you better in all areas of training

Man Management - no idea, perhaps players are less likely to be annoyed when you have an issue to them that relates to man management ie, not giving them first team football etc?

Motivation - same as Determination/Level of Discipline but it's also useful for team talks.

But all of that is unlikely to make much difference to your game. What really makes a difference is the level of experience/reputation you set at the beginning of the game. Pick "Sunday League Footballer" and take over a team like Man Utd, and you're guaranteed to have huge problems as the players, the media and the other managers won't take you seriously.

Thirdly, with my OI, I tend to get my ass man to give the advice on who to slam to the ground and what not, Ivan Caramanti is my guy, and I've just been leaving it to him, should I? or should I take his advice and add my own?,

If you don't know what you're doing, don't touch the OIs and don't even do anything your Assman tells you to. OIs can contradict all your other tactical settings, such as pulling players out of position, paying too much attention to one player and leaving others free etc. They can be great if you're really into tactics but if you're struggling and don't know where to start, I wouldn't recommend messing with them.

I have Martial as the usual up front striker, playing as a complete forward on attack, Memphis & Mata usually feeding him in on the wings with Shaw & Darmian as attacking wing backs, Schwein & Schnied/Herrera as the usual midfielders alternating as attacking midfielders or advanced playmakers, I've got Calum Chambers & Phil Jones/Chris Smalling playing as complete centre backs, putting Jones as cover, Chambers as defend. Also switching between De Gea & Valdes in goal as I don't think De Gea is playing to his full potential.

I tend to play high tempo and usually with an attacking mentality, closing down more, direct passing and between look for overlap and hit early crosses, be more expressive and stay on feet are also two instructions I tend to use more than others. but also, something I'm not sure if I should be doing, I tend to have 7-10 instructions per tactic, using some of the above, I don't actually know if that's the right way to go about it.

Edit: Sorry if you need more info, just ask, if there's anything I've missed out that's important I'll be happy to add it, it's my first thread on here

Please post your entire setup with the formation, roles and team instructions, it's hard to figure it out that way. However, some things sound wrong:

- maybe you just forgot, but you don't talk about any holding midfielder. Are you playing an entire midfield of attacking midfielders and advanced playmakers? That's prone to go very wrong, and even more so with both fullbacks on wing-back/attack at the same time. That's essentially telling everyone to go up and nobody to stay behind, don't you concede too many goals and see the opposition taking advantage of lots of space in your defence? You need either someone in the DM position (most roles will do there); or a holding role in the MC position like deep-lying playmaker, or "centre midfielder" on support, or defend with closing down less.

- it's harder to reach a good tactic if you slap 7 to 10 instructions on top of it. For a start, please realize that "attacking mentality" by default already does all of those things - it already makes tempo higher, it makes your players close down more, it makes some players pass more direct etc. So if you slap some of those attacking instructions on top of it, you're making them even more extreme. It'll play out almost like the "overload" mentality. It's much easier to start without ANY team instruction, or maybe 1 or 2 if you really want them to be a part of your playing style. Then you watch how it goes, and add/remove things as you see fit.

- Also, stay on feet is a very bad idea for an attacking tactic (at least in theory), and even more so if all of your roles are attack-minded as you suggest. Usually if you tell everyone to go upfront and press aggressively, you want players to try to win the ball high up, and that means tackling aggressively. Because if you don't do that, the opposition will easily pass the ball around and exploit the enormous space you're leaving on your backs. Stay on feet is a much better fit if you have a good defensive shape and are playing at least a little more cautiously. What it's meant to do is to win the ball through interceptions, without the players having to throw themselves to the ground and lose position, and that's only ever going to work with players who are in a good defensive position. If your players AREN'T in a good defensive position, you're much better off just accepting it and going after the opposition like mad anyway.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your game!

[Unitedred]

There isn't such a thing as a "best" tactic, people are having success with a few completely different setups. It also depends immensely on the characteristics of your squad. Well, unless you go to the Downloads forum and just get one of the best there, it might well give you wonder results, but chances are it'll stop working by the next game update.

That being said, there does seem to be some formation and settings that the match engine is "friendlier" to. Hint: I've seen people around having massive success with a counter-attacking 4-1-4-1; with a "normal" 4-3-3 (4-1DM-2MCs-2AML/R-1); and with a normal straight attacking 4-4-2 playing everything down the wings. I play a 4-2-3-1 myself and am doing "merely" alright. Not sure I've seen anyone overachieving massively with a 4-2-3-1 in this match engine.

But before any of those considerations, the first thing you need to do is to stop using 3 completely different formations. Sometimes just changing 1 role or 2 can make a huge difference. If you change EVERYTHING from match to match, how can you track what works for you and what doesn't? Just pick one and start from there.

Choosing a "tactical manager" won't make your tactics play better at all. It just means you'll have more points to assign to the attributes on that category. What those attributes actually do is debatable and a little unknown. This is my interpretation of what they do:

Adaptability - likeliness of being offered a job abroad

Player Knowledge/Youngster Knowledge - being able to see the attributes of more players without having to scout them first

Determination/Level of Discipline - I think they do little beyond multiplying by the training attributes, so high points here will make you better in all areas of training

Man Management - no idea, perhaps players are less likely to be annoyed when you have an issue to them that relates to man management ie, not giving them first team football etc?

Motivation - same as Determination/Level of Discipline but it's also useful for team talks.

But all of that is unlikely to make much difference to your game. What really makes a difference is the level of experience/reputation you set at the beginning of the game. Pick "Sunday League Footballer" and take over a team like Man Utd, and you're guaranteed to have huge problems as the players, the media and the other managers won't take you seriously.

If you don't know what you're doing, don't touch the OIs and don't even do anything your Assman tells you to. OIs can contradict all your other tactical settings, such as pulling players out of position, paying too much attention to one player and leaving others free etc. They can be great if you're really into tactics but if you're struggling and don't know where to start, I wouldn't recommend messing with them.

Please post your entire setup with the formation, roles and team instructions, it's hard to figure it out that way. However, some things sound wrong:

- maybe you just forgot, but you don't talk about any holding midfielder. Are you playing an entire midfield of attacking midfielders and advanced playmakers? That's prone to go very wrong, and even more so with both fullbacks on wing-back/attack at the same time. That's essentially telling everyone to go up and nobody to stay behind, don't you concede too many goals and see the opposition taking advantage of lots of space in your defence? You need either someone in the DM position (most roles will do there); or a holding role in the MC position like deep-lying playmaker, or "centre midfielder" on support, or defend with closing down less.

- it's harder to reach a good tactic if you slap 7 to 10 instructions on top of it. For a start, please realize that "attacking mentality" by default already does all of those things - it already makes tempo higher, it makes your players close down more, it makes some players pass more direct etc. So if you slap some of those attacking instructions on top of it, you're making them even more extreme. It'll play out almost like the "overload" mentality. It's much easier to start without ANY team instruction, or maybe 1 or 2 if you really want them to be a part of your playing style. Then you watch how it goes, and add/remove things as you see fit.

- Also, stay on feet is a very bad idea for an attacking tactic (at least in theory), and even more so if all of your roles are attack-minded as you suggest. Usually if you tell everyone to go upfront and press aggressively, you want players to try to win the ball high up, and that means tackling aggressively. Because if you don't do that, the opposition will easily pass the ball around and exploit the enormous space you're leaving on your backs. Stay on feet is a much better fit if you have a good defensive shape and are playing at least a little more cautiously. What it's meant to do is to win the ball through interceptions, without the players having to throw themselves to the ground and lose position, and that's only ever going to work with players who are in a good defensive position. If your players AREN'T in a good defensive position, you're much better off just accepting it and going after the opposition like mad anyway.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your game!

That's one hell of a tip, much appreciated, and after FINALLY spending 45 minutes figuring out how to attack screenshots, I've done it. I've managed to remove all OI's and also completely clear the team instructions from the 4231 wide formation I've been playing, and just adding one or two team instructions here and there, and we've managed a return of 1 win and 2 draws in 3 games, while that's not spectacular, a game we played against Tottenham was almost total football.

Up there is my current team, it's also my most likely starting 11 too, this picture is after I've removed OI's & Team instructions too

[Unitedred]

I've just come down to earth with a 1-0 loss away to Newcastle, saying that, we still look good even when we're losing. I do seem to have now struck a good balance with possession based play

[Unitedred]

So after changing most of my tactics last night, I now seem to have completely lost it. My defense is crap, despite the fact I seem to have an idea how the roles should be, my strikers can't score, and my wingers are terrible at crossing

What the bloody hell can I do here!

[inosensu]

Looking at the screenshot of your tactics the thing that jumps out is that you're using four playmaking roles. Of these four, I think Young isn't at all suited to be a one, as he'll drift inside and look for a pass instead of doing what he's good at: dribbling along the sideline and delivering a cross. So I'd change him to a Winger. Also, I think Shaw could be given a more attacking and dynamic role, since he's excellent at surging forward and using the space created by IF Depay.

[herne79]

How are we supposed to help if you "changed most of your tactics last night" and then didn't bother telling us what you have changed?

Instead of ranting, tell us what you are doing, otherwise a mod will simply lock the thread.

[Unitedred]

Well I'll give you a quick rundown, last night I removed all OI's that were supplied for me by the assistant manager, and also completely removed team instructions and started applying them as the game goes on. Some matches last night, and even today were excellent, We beat Real Madrid at OT, and drew 1-1 at their ground, which amazed me, and I did that using a control mentality, I can't seem to get it right when I'm using an attacking mentality though, although saying that, against Everton in my last game, we lost 3-0 -.-

As you can see, the run of games in the league haven't been good enough, I'm not setting any OI's barring against Madrid, I instructed my team to go hard on Bale & Benzema, seemed to work, but most games since I changed it to this method, I don't set an instruction on anyone.

[vincenzo143]

So after changing most of my tactics last night, I now seem to have completely lost it. My defense is crap, despite the fact I seem to have an idea how the roles should be, my strikers can't score, and my wingers are terrible at crossing

What the bloody hell can I do here!

You don't even have wingers.....read the description of the Inside Forward and the Advanced Playmaker again.

[noikeee]

I think you're still changing too much too often, this last screenshot is already very different to the previous one. Please realize that getting the right balance isn't easy and sometimes changing a role or two, or someone from support to attack, can be enough to screw the whole balance of the whole side.

For a start 4 playmakers is overkill. You're essentially telling 4 different players to do pretty much the same thing. Playmakers don't do much but wait in position, circulating the ball up until the opening comes up to pass a ball up to another player running forward. So your entire danger is going to come from feeding balls to the inside forward and the complete forward. But since they're both in attack duty, they'll both run upfront quickly and if the pass doesn't meet them immediately, then they're marked and your entire team is static. What you're probably missing is some sort of player that drops deep and therefore creates space for the other runners. I recommend switching the forward from attack duty to support (this will be the guy that drops deep, dragging defenders, and creating space for your other runners); and getting rid of one of the attacking playmakers: either make the AMC a shadow striker or the AMR another inside forward or a winger.

Also, it's a waste to use the "limited fullback" at that level. Limited fullbacks and limited centrebacks should only be used for players that are so rubbish that you don't trust them to make a pass, ever - because all they'll do is hoof the ball up all day long. Darmian is way way better than that. He's one of the best full-backs in the world!

[akuji2012]

If your striker is having trouble scoring goals as an advanced forward, or complete forward change to poacher. jordan rhodes scored 39 goals for me my first season with him as a poacher.

[RTHerringbone]

If your striker is having trouble scoring goals as an advanced forward, or complete forward change to poacher. jordan rhodes scored 39 goals for me my first season with him as a poacher.

You have seen who he has up front, right? Bad touch, slow, lacking composure...... It's like saying that setting David Batty to play as a Regista would be sensible.

[Unitedred]

Sadly, after getting us to the CL Final, we were hammered 5-1 by Juventus, so they sacked me xD

I've started again now, with a huge host of new staff and scouts, and I'm going to start off with a decent 4-4-2 diamond wide formation and just hopefully work on it from there. I think Harry Kane seems like a good choice to play off Martial, I shouldn't ask too much from Martial, but I know he has potential and I'm determined to make it happen

[RTHerringbone]

Is a 4-4-2 wide diamond a sensible idea, when you have a plethora of central midfielders and not much real quality and depth out wide?

[Unitedred]

Well, I'm looking at signing Pione Sisto for about £10m, which I think would give me some depth, and also Harry Kane, which then means I could drop Memphis down to left wing and hopefully have him control from there. I also like the thought of keeping Valencia, not sure werther I will if I see an offer come in for him, or get offered another winger who could work better in his spot.

Saying that though, what's everyone's experiences with 451? I've got two potentials here. I'm not planning on using those players there, but the roles are how I'd imagine would go well, as you saw, my tactical experience isn't great, so if there's a role conflicting with another that would work, please let me know.

or

[herne79]

If you post tactics, it helps if you post all of it (mentality, team shape, TIs and so on) rather than just formation and player roles.

That being said, both posted above are very aggressive, especially down the flanks.

The top one, you have 6 (!) players given an attack duty, including all 4 wide men. Opposition wingers will have a field day - they will more than likely catch you horribly up field and have a party in all the space you are leaving them.. You also have nobody in midfield acting as a proper defensive screen. Have you read any of the stickies? If not, take some time out and read them especially Pairs and Combinations.

The bottom one, you still have 5 players with an attack duty - again including all 4 wide players. With nobody given a defend duty in midfield, you may find again that your defensive screen remains poor.

These are just general observations - they still need the context of your detailed systems.

[RTHerringbone]

Just really imbalanced. Four players whacking in crosses to a lone striker and no real early support from central midfield. Plus what herne79 identifies above. Seems like you're aiming to replicate that match with the crazy amount of crosses against Fulham

[Unitedred]

Cheers for all your tips, sorry about leaving out the team instructions and mentalities, I need to remember to add those in here. I agree with you now looking it, too much emphasis on attack, will cost us in leaking goals, The mentality I'm looking at will either be control or attacking, as I like the thought of a fluid flowing move. Team instructions will be very minimal, get stuck in, a normal defensive line, be more expressive, more direct passing and play out of defence will be the ones I'd look to use, and only them

[RTHerringbone]

You know that Control, and especially Attacking are very open Mentalities? You don't need to go that far up the scale to play attractive, free-flowing football. At that end of the Mentality scale, you play fast football with width in attack and a high defensive line. It can work, but counter attacking in FM is now more efficient than ever, so if you want to go with an aggressive Mentality, you'll need to have a very balanced system that isn't overly peppered with Attack Duties - you need men back to defend when the inevitable counters come.

[Unitedred]

Well, taking that into account, what about a sweeper keeper to come and Neuer the long balls away?, too risky?. obviously the downside to this is that if I end up with an opp striker with great strength and finishing, along with 2 wingers coming at my keeper, I stand to lose a lot