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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2016 - 16.2.0 Official feedback thread

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Really? I just watched it and the first and last goals are definitely crosses and you could argue the second and fourth possibly.

If they are your definitions of crosses, then I'm not surprised you might think there are too many crosses. Generous in the extreme there.

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If they are your definitions of crosses, then I'm not surprised you might think there are too many crosses. Generous in the extreme there.
You said there is only one goal from a cross in that game- which of the first and last goals do you not see as a cross?

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You said there is only one goal from a cross in that game- which of the first and last goals do you not see as a cross?

The first one is a textbook cross, the second is a cutback pass, the third is a through ball. the fourth is a cutback, and the fifth is a split pass.

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You said there is only one goal from a cross in that game- which of the first and last goals do you not see as a cross?

I think he means he only thinks one of Shakhtar's two goals comes from a cross, I would agree with that anyway.

Edit - Ok I think the first two goals of the game come from crosses.

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I'd agree with that, first two crosses, none of the rest are. Move along, nothing to see here.

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STS, you've put up more than enough videos its' verging on spam now. As I've said before, if you feel you see any specific issue, upload those pkms to your bugs thread.

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STS, you've put up more than enough videos its' verging on spam now. As I've said before, if you feel you see any specific issue, upload those pkms to your bugs thread.

Let's hope they analyze it because this huge bug is ruining the game for me and others. 27 goals by crosses for me and AI in 15 matches, worst ME ever.

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At the risk of becoming a broken record, I still just can't help but feel that "motivation" has an outsized effect on the game. Was dominating a game, up 2-0, they go down to 10 men, then suddenly a couple of my guys get complacent, opposing players get superpowers, and I can't get a sniff and lose 3-2. Those are the types of games that give people the impression the game is "cheating" or "scripted". I know it's not but ... arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghghghghh.

Whenever I get upset by a smaller club it's generally the same story. You see a few players show up as "nervous" and you just know disaster is around the corner.

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Intentional controversy or just bad graphics? :lol:

4vPbtpI.jpg

Animation issue and one you can report in the bugs forum with a PKM, if you don't mind.

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Intentional controversy or just bad graphics? :lol:

4vPbtpI.jpg

Does that also show as over the line in the 2D engine?

This is the kind of thing that makes me concerned about the quality of SI's coding - the ball position in a football match is absolutely fundamental. Anything that misrepresents it is completely inexcusable. If the animations can show either players or the ball in a position other than their co-ordinate position, then something is seriously wrong. At the very least, in this example, if a fixed goalie plus ball animation is being inserted then it should take the ball position as reference, not the player.

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Next episode of Crossing Manager 16, Shaktar ruins a nice victory by pulling back with 2 crossing goals.

[video=youtube;ZArlzCw3wrY]

EDIT: Here is also another match against Liverpool 2 matches before the Shaktar one (the other match was agaisnt Newcastle, who also scored a cross goal)

[video=youtube;7K38wA1diog]

Last 15 matches (i can't select stats from all matches otherwise it picks up stats from the previous season, which i wasn't at the club yet):

2nisi1v.png

Friendlies to exclude:

ap64w.png

there's an obvious lack of any kind of defending no metter if the goals are considered a cross, square ball or a pass. the fact is that a majority of those goals wouldn't happen irl. espacially not on regular basis. it looks funny at least. it would be a game breaker for me for sure. I can't believe more people are not posting these examples.

defending has always had big issues in all MEs unfortunatly. but I wouldn't expect anything like that in FM16.

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I think the ME issues would be better highlighted if you changed "goals from crosses" to "goals from wide areas".

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I think the ME issues would be better highlighted if you changed "goals from crosses" to "goals from wide areas".

Also people should't be trying to remove crossing from the game entirely, which is what some of the feedback is coming across like.

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Don't know should I consider it as a bug, but it happens to me quite often, so I will write about it here.

ie.

In the middle of the season, I ask my board to upgrade my training and youth facilities, and upgrade the stadium. And they agree. I get message that TF cost 3m, YF 3,5m and stadium upgrade cost 10m for 3000 seats (which is ridiculous as it is for me).

And then I went on to have successful season, and I get that board wants to upgrade everything that was agreed before. And nothing changes under the board tab. Only thing that changes are the prices, so now this extra 3000 seats cost me more than 14m euros. Start and completion dates remain the same.

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Also people should't be trying to remove crossing from the game entirely, which is what some of the feedback is coming across like.

I totally agree with you. I commented before that we have to be careful that this doesn't go the way of FM15 when there were some nice crossed goals in the earlier patches but because of complaints (allegedly) the final patch practically eradicated goals from crosses which killed the game for me because it became very one dimensional on how you could score.

In my game most of my goals come from a cross from Jenkinson on the right hand side even though I use "work ball into the box". I use whipped crosses because I read somewhere last year that a whipped cross is more of a pass so therefore more of a controlled cross I guess and at times it works well with varying finishes from either strikers, opposite IF or on rushing CM's. My most common assist type is a cross 52%. My most common assist area is the right wing with an overlapping wing back 36%. My most common assist area for "conceding" is my left wing and the assist type is a through ball but that stands to reason as I play a high line with overlapping wing backs so it will be. It's risk/reward as I know that my teams strength is also my teams weakness so if my boys are having a bad day on the creating front I will be in trouble because they will leave space behind.

Crosses can be misinterpreted as a long diagonal, a slide rule pass across the box, even a mis hit shot but a lot of the time they will occur because of the way "you" play. As I say in my strategy that will be my weakness if I leave room behind. If the opposition has that room on the flanks they will counter it with crosses.

My only grumble with crosses would be the behaviour of Inside Forwards with a "work ball into the box" shout. They don't play enough crosses when in a good position to do so and due to "WBIB" will often run into trouble. However I don't want to take off WBIB because then it goes too far the other way and silly angled shots and useless crosses become the norm. At times just a little slide rule pass either across the area or a slight pull back to the penalty spot is what you want so you almost need a new setting between normal and WBIB. There again it could be down to the decision levels of my players.

SI Please don't kill crosses because you will kill the game.

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I totally agree with you. I commented before that we have to be careful that this doesn't go the way of FM15 when there were some nice crossed goals in the earlier patches but because of complaints (allegedly) the final patch practically eradicated goals from crosses which killed the game for me because it became very one dimensional on how you could score.

In my game most of my goals come from a cross from Jenkinson on the right hand side even though I use "work ball into the box". I use whipped crosses because I read somewhere last year that a whipped cross is more of a pass so therefore more of a controlled cross I guess and at times it works well with varying finishes from either strikers, opposite IF or on rushing CM's. My most common assist type is a cross 52%. My most common assist area is the right wing with an overlapping wing back 36%. My most common assist area for "conceding" is my left wing and the assist type is a through ball but that stands to reason as I play a high line with overlapping wing backs so it will be. It's risk/reward as I know that my teams strength is also my teams weakness so if my boys are having a bad day on the creating front I will be in trouble because they will leave space behind.

Crosses can be misinterpreted as a long diagonal, a slide rule pass across the box, even a mis hit shot but a lot of the time they will occur because of the way "you" play. As I say in my strategy that will be my weakness if I leave room behind. If the opposition has that room on the flanks they will counter it with crosses.

My only grumble with crosses would be the behaviour of Inside Forwards with a "work ball into the box" shout. They don't play enough crosses when in a good position to do so and due to "WBIB" will often run into trouble. However I don't want to take off WBIB because then it goes too far the other way and silly angled shots and useless crosses become the norm. At times just a little slide rule pass either across the area or a slight pull back to the penalty spot is what you want so you almost need a new setting between normal and WBIB. There again it could be down to the decision levels of my players.

SI Please don't kill crosses because you will kill the game.

FM15's crossing complaints were a bit overblown, from what I remember there were some awesome crossing going on but generally around the byline.

FM16's issue, I think is partially down to the style of the cross. Some tactic creators are actually calling it a crossing exploit now and are putting up tactics specifically to exploit the deep cross to far post method of scoring. Does that indicate there is a problem? Not for me to say really.

I have seen the type of goal that sparks the complaint, and it does feel 'off'. I think Dr. Hook is on the right track about the repeat animations, but whether I have selective memory on this or not, I don't really remember specific loops or passages of play that lead to goal as well as this particular routine, but I'll qualify this with the caveat that if you're looking for it... You'll find it at some point! =x

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I totally agree with you. I commented before that we have to be careful that this doesn't go the way of FM15 when there were some nice crossed goals in the earlier patches but because of complaints (allegedly) the final patch practically eradicated goals from crosses which killed the game for me because it became very one dimensional on how you could score.

In my game most of my goals come from a cross from Jenkinson on the right hand side even though I use "work ball into the box". I use whipped crosses because I read somewhere last year that a whipped cross is more of a pass so therefore more of a controlled cross I guess and at times it works well with varying finishes from either strikers, opposite IF or on rushing CM's. My most common assist type is a cross 52%. My most common assist area is the right wing with an overlapping wing back 36%. My most common assist area for "conceding" is my left wing and the assist type is a through ball but that stands to reason as I play a high line with overlapping wing backs so it will be. It's risk/reward as I know that my teams strength is also my teams weakness so if my boys are having a bad day on the creating front I will be in trouble because they will leave space behind.

Crosses can be misinterpreted as a long diagonal, a slide rule pass across the box, even a mis hit shot but a lot of the time they will occur because of the way "you" play. As I say in my strategy that will be my weakness if I leave room behind. If the opposition has that room on the flanks they will counter it with crosses.

My only grumble with crosses would be the behaviour of Inside Forwards with a "work ball into the box" shout. They don't play enough crosses when in a good position to do so and due to "WBIB" will often run into trouble. However I don't want to take off WBIB because then it goes too far the other way and silly angled shots and useless crosses become the norm. At times just a little slide rule pass either across the area or a slight pull back to the penalty spot is what you want so you almost need a new setting between normal and WBIB. There again it could be down to the decision levels of my players.

SI Please don't kill crosses because you will kill the game.

SI will work on general feedback, their own testing/experiences and investigate PKMs themselves. They won't just blindly change something (crosses in this case) just because a few complain. It is being reviewed, but changes will be made where areas are buggy or the stats do not correspond with real life figures. Tactical setups need to be taken into account as well.

Whipped crosses are just that - crosses whipped in at pace. Because of that, they will be more inaccurate but the defenders have less time to position themselves to defend it.

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BTW I read somewhere, it might have been on this thread, that some were intrigued as to why pitches look different in the second half of matches. After upgrading my graphics card so I now watch on very high detail I too have noticed this and sometimes in the early part of the second half. It even happened mid move at one point. I have a theory. I think someone turns the floodlights on!!

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How was FM2015 last patch crossing hugely nerfed? I have one or two AI sides in my last save that have up to or more than 50% of their assists from crosses. Focusing mainly on wing play in a 4-4-2 (albeit not exclusively) these were the stats of one of my last sides.

Just goes to show that on occasion things spread that aren't all that truthful. I'd actually always recommend to go into a new save/patch/version with a clear fresh mind not "polluted" by anyone's most favored opinion. The worst you could do in the long run was to build Rube goldberg conundrum kind of tactics with crazy wild formations/instructions that supposedly are meant to be creative ways around supposedly weak areas. Your AI opponents never work like that anyways (nor are they all that creative). Speaking about tactics, it seems it's still to early to get an opinion behind the thinking behind FM2016's weirdly tactical overhauls, and if they will actually continue like that from FM 2017 onwards, is it still? In my opinion it looks like they're en route to outmoding "team mentality/strategy", as the way it worked previously, and how it's worked,it's just been scrapped. Having a team of players that are spread out in their risk taking/mentality/aggressiveness accordingly to pick in duty isn't an overarching strategy, it's a team divided into clear-cut jobs accordingly to duty pick.

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How was FM2015 last patch crossing hugely nerfed? I have one or two AI sides in my last save that have up to or more than 50% of their assists from crosses. Focusing mainly on wing play in a 4-4-2 (albeit not exclusively) these were the stats of one of my last sides.

Just goes to show that on occasion things spread that aren't all that truthful. I'd actually always recommend to go into a new save/patch/version with a clear fresh mind not "polluted" by anyone's most favored opinion. The worst you could do in the long run was to build Rube goldberg conundrum kind of tactics with crazy wild formations/instructions that supposedly are meant to be creative ways around supposedly weak areas. Your AI opponents never work like that anyways (nor are they all that creative). Speaking about tactics, it seems it's still to early to get an opinion behind the thinking behind FM2016's weirdly tactical overhauls, and if they will actually continue like that from FM 2017 onwards, is it still? In my opinion it looks like they're en route to outmoding "team mentality/strategy", as the way it worked previously, and how it's worked,it's just been scrapped. Having a team of players that are spread out in their risk taking/mentality/aggressiveness accordingly to pick in duty isn't an overarching strategy, it's a team divided into clear-cut jobs accordingly to duty pick.

Sven, dropping you a PM

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How was FM2015 last patch crossing hugely nerfed? I have one or two AI sides in my last save that have up to or more than 50% of their assists from crosses. Focusing mainly on wing play in a 4-4-2 (albeit not exclusively) these were the stats of one of my last sides.

Just goes to show that on occasion things spread that aren't all that truthful. I'd actually always recommend to go into a new save/patch/version with a clear fresh mind not "polluted" by anyone's most favored opinion. The worst you could do in the long run was to build Rube goldberg conundrum kind of tactics with crazy wild formations/instructions that supposedly are meant to be creative ways around supposedly weak areas. Your AI opponents never work like that anyways (nor are they all that creative). Speaking about tactics, it seems it's still to early to get an opinion behind the thinking behind FM2016's weirdly tactical overhauls, and if they will actually continue like that from FM 2017 onwards, is it still? In my opinion it looks like they're en route to outmoding "team mentality/strategy", as the way it worked previously, and how it's worked,it's just been scrapped. Having a team of players that are spread out in their risk taking/mentality/aggressiveness accordingly to pick in duty isn't an overarching strategy, it's a team divided into clear-cut jobs accordingly to duty pick.

I'd definitely agree with the bolded. It would be interesting to compare the average user that doesn't visit this forum against the average user who does. If you see someone on this forum complaining about a certain thing, then its human nature that that thing is probably going to become more obvious. If you never see that person talking about it, you can often miss it, or at least not let it affect you. Visiting the forum - or not - can often be the difference between looking at the ME and going "oh, I'm scoring a lot from crosses, cool" and going "oh, I'm scoring a lot from crosses, clearly SI have broken the ME". Of course you have shades of grey between, and shades of hot colour at the other ends, but people will always sway your opinion.

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So after a few seasons with the game spent over various saves I think this is the first version which I haven't enjoyed as much as its predecessor. I find FM16 a lot more difficult to get my head around, I primarily which extended highlights but for the last season of my current save have taken to watching comprehensive highlights in an attempt to see what's what. Lots of other poster have remarked about the nature of crossing or 'perfect cross' to the back post always resulting in a goal, for me it isn't the crossing that's the issue, it's the lack of defensive engagement. Time and time again my defenders will jockey the opposing player down the wing, never holding him up or nipping at his heels (now he may very well be doing this, but if the animations can't show me it's happening, how am I meant to know?) too often I see my defenders simply jog alongside without actively trying to knick the ball, resulting in players getting into a great position for crossing, or at the very least winning a corner.

Fullbacks/ wingbacks are my main concern, and not because they get high ratings or are usually in and around the top of the assist chart come the end of the season (depending on how you play of course) but mainly because they see far too much of the ball. My fullbacks are my primary source of width in a narrow 4-4-2 diamond, they are both an attacking threat and a possession retention tool by being an available out ball to team mates. The issue I'm seeing is that my other players always look to move out wide with the ball, irrespective of whether or not a central ball is available. WB's will often play cross field balls back and forth to one another when a central option is on, albeit a more risky pass (however the players on the ball are asked to play more risky passes). It is proving a real test to try and find a way of getting quick, incisive central passes to midfield runners happening with any form of regularity.

As an aside I'd like to ask a question, if I reproduce my FM15 tactics as close as possible in FM16, with what degree of similarity should I expect them to play out? Should they play similar on the whole with subtle differences or vastly different?

Last thing, I get a lot of offside's, which is fine that's football, some are very peculiar though i.e:

6f17p2.jpg

The player in yellow to the far right is given offside in this instance, obviously I know people will say linesmen make mistakes, happens in real life, did you see the John Terry's goal etc, simply saying this is an odd one.

Well said.

Dont you just miss the through balls from FM15? I miss them a lot!

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Don't you just miss the through balls from FM15? I miss them a lot!

Nope.

Because I'm still playing it.:)

Played a few seasons on 16 but too many goals coming from deep crosses for my liking and also I was a bit disappointed by Create-a-Club in FMT, Couldn't do as much with the club as I had hoped so mainly sticking with a couple of saves on 15.

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Well said.

Dont you just miss the through balls from FM15? I miss them a lot!

last FM with nice through balls was FM12. From that, the cross dominates, even opting to play for the central zone, where is the entrance to the area they open the game to the side to make the crossing, never through ball.

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I reject the notion that nice through ball goals are impossible, this is the assist breakdown of my last 50 league games:

Tactics_%20Analysis%20Goals_zpsvlq0roe2.png

Crosses and through balls are almost equal for me and exactly equal against me. I'll just leave this here for you all to digest.

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I'll just chuck mine up here, for what it's worth.

2016-01-19_00001_zpsibhyxxmj.jpg

Looks like I have a different ME, where through balls are overpowered for the AI. That, or it's tactical.

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who claimed that nice through ball goals are impossible?

You & the guy above my post?

I'll just chuck mine up here, for what it's worth.

2016-01-19_00001_zpsibhyxxmj.jpg

Looks like I have a different ME, where through balls are overpowered for the AI. That, or it's tactical.

Guess which is more likely?

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I reject the notion that nice through ball goals are impossible, this is the assist breakdown of my last 50 league games:

Tactics_%20Analysis%20Goals_zpsvlq0roe2.png

Crosses and through balls are almost equal for me and exactly equal against me. I'll just leave this here for you all to digest.

a couple of questions:

1) those through balls were for strikers or for wingers/midfielders?

2) if the former, are you playing with a more conservative mentality (defensive/counter)?

My take is, through balls are actually very possible in this ME, especially for wide attackers and runners from midfield. But much harder to achieve if the target is an out and out striker. On the other hand the AI seems to have the ability to find their strikers via killer balls with more consistency.

In my opinion this happens for two reasons:

A) human managers tend to play with a more attacking mentality (because this is a game and it's fun!) and a higher defensive line, thus conceding more space behind the line to exploit for the strikers.

B) AI on the other hand seems to use much more cautious strategies, I'd say too cautious really, even when they should be more attacking (e.g. higher reputation, home advantage, better players). This is why through balls for strikers seem much harder too achieve for human player, and crossing/wide play soon becomes plan A, B and C. I'm doing a save with Red Bull Brasil, I've won three consecutive championships from third to first division (always as a newly promoted team) and I was shocked to see virtually every opponent playing very conservative and staying deep against us, even biggest clubs at home.

I think point A works at it should, it's the risk of playing a high defensive line. The issue of point B however might deserve some review, as I suspect that could be a cause of perceived 'repetitive' ME, when actually is more of a 'repetitive' behavior of AI, that tends to play too defensive and too deep more often than it should.

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a couple of questions:

1) those through balls were for strikers or for wingers/midfielders?

2) if the former, are you playing with a more conservative mentality (defensive/counter)?

My take is, through balls are actually very possible in this ME, especially for wide attackers and runners from midfield. But much harder to achieve if the target is an out and out striker. On the other hand the AI seems to have the ability to find their strikers via killer balls with more consistency.

In my opinion this happens for two reasons:

A) human managers tend to play with a more attacking mentality (because this is a game and it's fun!) and a higher defensive line, thus conceding more space behind the line to exploit for the strikers.

B) AI on the other hand seems to use much more cautious strategies, I'd say too cautious really, even when they should be more attacking (e.g. higher reputation, home advantage, better players). This is why through balls for strikers seem much harder too achieve for human player, and crossing/wide play soon becomes plan A, B and C. I'm doing a save with Red Bull Brasil, I've won three consecutive championships from third to first division (always as a newly promoted team) and I was shocked to see virtually every opponent playing very conservative and staying deep against us, even biggest clubs at home.

I think point A works at it should, it's the risk of playing a high defensive line. The issue of point B however might deserve some review, as I suspect that could be a cause of perceived 'repetitive' ME, when actually is more of a 'repetitive' behavior of AI, that tends to play too defensive and too deep more often than it should.

1) A mix but predominantly my solo striker. My B2B mid gets a few and my AMR a decent amount. AML less so.

2) I use control 99% of the time

You didn't ask but on the defensive side I use a very high line, lots of pressing & use offside trap.

Also of relevance, my team is very very good (check the Spurs thread in GPTG for more info) so I expect my midfielders to be able to play killer through balls & my £105m striker to do something with them!

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Anybody else noticed players asking for extortionate amounts after coming to you, asking for a new contract?

I'm Inter and signed a left-back from Brazil. He had a pretty good first year with us earning £30k - he asked for a new deal and as he did well and is on less than the rest of the team I agreed.

Go to offer a contract and he's demanding £130k! That would make him my top earner by some distance! Now if I don't offer him a deal or he rejects it (I wouldn't offer him more than £60k tops!) he's gonna unsettle the squad. Great.

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1) A mix but predominantly my solo striker. My B2B mid gets a few and my AMR a decent amount. AML less so.

2) I use control 99% of the time

You didn't ask but on the defensive side I use a very high line, lots of pressing & use offside trap.

Also of relevance, my team is very very good (check the Spurs thread in GPTG for more info) so I expect my midfielders to be able to play killer through balls & my £105m striker to do something with them!

Dybala's PPM's (move into channels and beats offside trap) might be the key there, as well as your playmakers' PPM's (possibly killer balls?), not to forget amazing quality of your players!

I still think AI tactics are generally too conservative, or at least that was my experience while managing a supposed small club and finding opponents to play so deep and defensive!

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This game should be renamed as "Crossing Manager 2016". I'm playing as Maidstone (one of the favourites to be relegated) but we're currently top after 18 league games. However, this is arguably the most boring and repetitive ME I've ever seen. Just look at the following screenshot:

oh8ynd.jpg

We've managed just 22 goals in 18 games (the amount of goals in the lower divisions appears to be far too low) and almost all of them have come from crosses. Virtually every goal scored is identical. I play a 4-2-3-1 with half a dozen instructions, and I DO NOT use "exploit the flanks". Both wingers are on support duty.

And if you want proof of the ridiculously low scoring season so far, well, here you go:

2zdn6g4.jpg

By this point I've usually played a couple of seasons, but I'm struggling to get into the game this year. It just seems so dull and boring compared to the fluid and entertaining football of FM14.

This game requires SIGNIFICANT improvement still.

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I'd definitely agree with the bolded. It would be interesting to compare the average user that doesn't visit this forum against the average user who does. If you see someone on this forum complaining about a certain thing, then its human nature that that thing is probably going to become more obvious. If you never see that person talking about it, you can often miss it, or at least not let it affect you. Visiting the forum - or not - can often be the difference between looking at the ME and going "oh, I'm scoring a lot from crosses, cool" and going "oh, I'm scoring a lot from crosses, clearly SI have broken the ME". Of course you have shades of grey between, and shades of hot colour at the other ends, but people will always sway your opinion.

I dont get what your trying to say, you saying its ok as long as it goes unnoticed? or you saying the problems are being exaggerated because people keep saying the same thing ' most goals come from crosses' either way if the match engine isnt where its meant to be then its a problem and should be fixed.

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I dont get what your trying to say, you saying its ok as long as it goes unnoticed? or you saying the problems are being exaggerated because people keep saying the same thing ' most goals come from crosses' either way if the match engine isnt where its meant to be then its a problem and should be fixed.

I think he talks about two "camps" of players. First one think that concept "Press X to win" is great, the second one - it's awful. In games with diffuculty settings these differences are mostly negated, but in FM everyone is equal. So either game supports one side and the other is dissapointed, or it tries to balance and both sides get dissapointed. ;)

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Next episode of Crossing Manager 16, Shaktar ruins a nice victory by pulling back with 2 crossing goals.

[video=youtube;ZArlzCw3wrY]

]

I'm far from PRO but aren't 27 and 50 seconds episodes offsides? And yeah - defense is sleeping.

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Getting sick of conceding "Freak Goals" you know the ones, crossed in from 40 yards on the byline lobs over my keeper. 4 in the last 6 games for 1-0 losses in a relegation battle, what's the point, I will wait for the next patch

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last FM with nice through balls was FM12. From that, the cross dominates, even opting to play for the central zone, where is the entrance to the area they open the game to the side to make the crossing, never through ball.

That's because FM12 played far too many through balls and strikers could walk through the defenders (quite literally)

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last FM with nice through balls was FM12. From that, the cross dominates, even opting to play for the central zone, where is the entrance to the area they open the game to the side to make the crossing, never through ball.

That's because FM12 played far too many through balls and strikers could walk through the defenders (quite literally)

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That's because FM12 played far too many through balls and strikers could walk through the defenders (quite literally)

fair enoug... was a bug.

I do not know if they are my tactics, but...

someone here can post any player who plays in the central zone which is their leader of assist? excluding goals from corners. kind hard I think, the assist leaders 95% of the time are the wingers. or not?

to be more specific, thinking of great teams:

4-2-3-1 - Real Madrid - James enganche, Bale winger?

4-3-3 - Barcelona - Iniesta or Suarez/Neymar?

4-2-3-1 - Arsenal - Ozil or Alexis?

Bayern - 4-1-4-1 - Douglas Costa or Thiago?

I do not know if you guys understand my point of view, but in FM all Wingers will give more assist.

It is very difficult to place the player of the center to assist a lot and I think it's the little number of through balls.

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You & the guy above my post?

I for one, didnt say that. Check your facts again.

I said i miss their frequency in FM15.

The guy above your post used the word ''never'' probably to stress a point rather than talking literally.

And it has to do, with what kind of team you got (yours as you said is very good), if you are playing with an AMC etc.

Both you and johnhughthom showed us what Spurs and Arsenal (top teams in general) can do. Which is great.

I am playing 2.Bundesliga where the level diefference is huge. Still and that is exactly where the problem is,

i bet that my wingers can cross to the far post in almost the same level as yours. And i dont have super wingers.

But you got the extra bonus of through balls. Good for you.

Never said the ME is broken or anything. But the repetition of crossing is there. All i want is variety.

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I for one, didnt say that. Check your facts again.

I said i miss their frequency in FM15.

The guy above your post used the word ''never'' probably to stress a point rather than talking literally.

And it has to do, with what kind of team you got (yours as you said is very good), if you are playing with an AMC etc.

Both you and johnhughthom showed us what Spurs and Arsenal (top teams in general) can do. Which is great.

I am playing 2.Bundesliga where the level diefference is huge. Still and that is exactly where the problem is,

i bet that my wingers can cross to the far post in almost the same level as yours. And i dont have super wingers.

But you got the extra bonus of through balls. Good for you.

Never said the ME is broken or anything. But the repetition of crossing is there. All i want is variety.

I misread your post. Apologies. And as for someone saying 'never' well with a lack of context/subtext on the internet I have to take it literally.

I don't use an AMC but one of my mids is an AP/A.

I don't know where johnhughtom is using Ozil but you'd have thought if he was central he'd be piling on the through balls. But it could be a tactical difference.

I haven't played at Bundesliga 2 level but did do some non league and I'd agree that crosses were too good but it wasn't all the same cross.

No doubt the ME needs work but I'd say that tactic set ups will have a huge influence and this may explain why SI struggle to get the right balance.

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AI on the other hand seems to use much more cautious strategies, I'd say too cautious really, even when they should be more attacking (e.g. higher reputation, home advantage, better players). This is why through balls for strikers seem much harder too achieve for human player, and crossing/wide play soon becomes plan A, B and C. I'm doing a save with Red Bull Brasil, I've won three consecutive championships from third to first division (always as a newly promoted team) and I was shocked to see virtually every opponent playing very conservative and staying deep against us, even biggest clubs at home.

I think this is a significant point that isn't picked up on anywhere near enough.

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Hmmm... My star forward has developed a hatred for me for some level, so much so that he's not willing to discuss fresh terms, and I'm not entirely certain as to why. He's being played consistently, but not when he's overly tired. He's scoring well, and about half of the squad have me in their favoured personnel, and I can't think of any reason that he'd in particular suddenly dislike me? Anyone had anything similar?

I don't think it's a bug, I'm just curious as to what action could have caused this.

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I dont get what your trying to say, you saying its ok as long as it goes unnoticed? or you saying the problems are being exaggerated because people keep saying the same thing ' most goals come from crosses' either way if the match engine isnt where its meant to be then its a problem and should be fixed.

Not at all. I'm quite clearly saying that someone can enjoy a game and not notice anything wrong. Because they just want entertainment - the whole point of a game - and maybe don't really care if the ME isn't perfect. I'm saying nothing about exaggerations, and certainly nothing about anything being "ok as long as it goes unnoticed".

I think he talks about two "camps" of players. First one think that concept "Press X to win" is great, the second one - it's awful. In games with diffuculty settings these differences are mostly negated, but in FM everyone is equal. So either game supports one side and the other is dissapointed, or it tries to balance and both sides get dissapointed. ;)

Again, no. I'm simply saying that someone playing in complete isolation will probably enjoy playing the game more than someone who comes on the forums and is exposed to everyone saying that everything is awful. Perception bias. Nothing to do with nonsensical difficulty levels or "press x to win" people. Believe it or not, some people can just play the game and enjoy it without thinking too much into it.

Like me. I know there are bugs in the game, and that will always be bugs in the game, and that they will be fixed when they're ready to be fixed. The game is enjoyable, I enjoy playing it. So shoot me.

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Perception bias is a massive influence.

I have friends who play, don't ever come on these forums and gain massive enjoyment from 'not knowing ' all the issues.

They're not idiots and obvious bugs grate but not to the extent they do here.

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Just for the record, I was posting my assist stats more in regard to the previous discussion about conceding from crosses.

From an attacking point of view, I do set my team up to maximise the wings (this is a save I've been playing since beta and I just lucked out the match engine is geared to my set up, wanted to get the most out of Giroud), and do play with an AMC (no longer Ozil who threw a tantrum and threatened to see out his contract, I said okay and now he is living the high life in Swansea, Lincoln and Gotze are more than capable), but he is more often the man who plays the pass before the assist and his stats probably don't reflect the role he plays.

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After ten seasons of FM16, I think crossing is a significant issue, but not quite as a significant as is being made out here. Big parts of the problem seems to be the inability of central defenders to stay with their man as a cross comes in, and the total inability of goalkeepers to come and claim or punch the ball. They just stay on their line and get shelled, over and over again.

It's by far my biggest issue with the ME.

What makes it funnier is it's really, really hard to train the technical attributes of full backs and wing backs in this iteration. I don't know if it's a quirk with how training regimes are set up, but despite every effort and ten years of solid youth development, I've managed to produce about two players who had any technical attributes (besides Tackling) over 13 by their 23rd birthdays. They're all tactical and physical beasts, but they just don't develop, and they complain constantly about having to do individual training on, e.g., Crossing or Dribbling. It's not just my development, either. Worldwide in 2025, I can count the DL/DRs with Crossing >14 on both hands.

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