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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2016 - 16.2.0 Official feedback thread

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Anyone else dread being 2-0 up at half time? Any time I am, no matter what I say to them I usually end up drawing the game or losing - usually conceding 2 within the first 15 minutes of the second half. It's starting to get very frustrating that I go from dominating play to looking like semi-pros. I'm actually starting to think that when I'm 2-0 up at half time I should just bring on every defender I have on my bench and go ultra defensive for the next 45 minutes, but that seems like I'd be inviting the attacks on even more.

Sounds like a team talk issue tbh.

You give them too much praise, other team maybe gets a kick up the arse and suddenly you are in trouble. I would often opt for some sort of don't get complacent HT team talk while you also have to watch for the opposition going more attacking and look to see how you can defend the changes.

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My only complaint for this year's ME is the number of offsides' date=' even for the players without "Likes to try to beat offside trap" ppm. I still find the numbers more than it should be after 16.2.0.

Anyone else still finding the number of offsides too many?[/quote']

Must confess I am finding it the opposite but pleasantly surprised with it. In FM15 it was always a frustration as you knew the way the crowd cheered upon a goal that it would be offside. This year I'll score and actually think it's offside but the goal is given. Almost as if the strikers get the benefit of the doubt this year. There again I guess it's how you play and set up as if you have a striker looking to get in behind then offsides are probably a bit more likely. I think the problem could be lateral movement in FM. IRL as a striker yoyu are more likely to bend your runs rather than just run straight onto a through ball.

PS - I think the ME is decent this year. Don't see too many issues with crosses tbh especially since full backs were improved in the previous update. I think we have to be careful here as crosses were decent prior to the final patch last year but then were nuked totally in the last patch meaning that wide play became useless. Let's not make the same mistake this year where a decent ME was ruined on the last patch.

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Goals from crosses need fixing before the january update. My tactics see one of my striker score 30 before xmas for the 3rd season running (at my 3rd club in 3 seasons). Each one a whipped cross comes in and he is stood on his own 1 yard in front of keeper to tap in.

It is so boring but I'm reluctant to change my tactics because ME is broken.

Maybe the stats are borked as only certain tactics lead to this situation, as I score all my goals from the situation above but haven't notice the AI do so against me at all.

I've stopped playing till this has been fixed; generally isn't enjoyable at the moment unfortunately

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Is there a way to offer a retiring player a coaching contract without them wanting to keep their playing wages?

I'm not sure that paying Cristiano Ronaldo 135k pw as a youth coach is wise and worried that if he leaves at end of contract he won't want to come straight back

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Sounds like a team talk issue tbh.

You give them too much praise, other team maybe gets a kick up the arse and suddenly you are in trouble. I would often opt for some sort of don't get complacent HT team talk while you also have to watch for the opposition going more attacking and look to see how you can defend the changes.

Tried that plenty. Has the same effect as telling them that I'm happy with how they're doing.

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Definitely something not right with cards. I have now been warned by the League three times by January for more than six bookings in a game, have 9 red cards and 78 yellow cards in 38 games (including friendlies and European games). Yet there is no real rhyme or reason for it as I am having games where a lenient Referee is handing out 10 yellow cards and a red and yet a firm Referee is giving only two yellow cards. It's extremely random which gives you absolutely no clue on how to approach games. I am at times changing my tackling to "stand off" when I reach a certain number of cards but then still getting a player sent off. I think a big problem is the amount of yellow cards being given in the first ten and quite often the first five minutes of matches. It's a real lottery.

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Definitely something not right with cards. I have now been warned by the League three times by January for more than six bookings in a game, have 9 red cards and 78 yellow cards in 38 games (including friendlies and European games). Yet there is no real rhyme or reason for it as I am having games where a lenient Referee is handing out 10 yellow cards and a red and yet a firm Referee is giving only two yellow cards. It's extremely random which gives you absolutely no clue on how to approach games. I am at times changing my tackling to "stand off" when I reach a certain number of cards but then still getting a player sent off. I think a big problem is the amount of yellow cards being given in the first ten and quite often the first five minutes of matches. It's a real lottery.

Cards in general seem really random anyway. Player makes 2 fouls, gets send off with 2 yellows in 15 minutes. Other player makes 5 identical fouls, doesn't get a yellow until the 5th for repeated fouling. Take down a Winger that gets past the Fullback? Don't even get a warning. Make a harmless trip in midfield? Bam, yellow card. Then if you look at the ref report at the end of the match he apparently did everything right, but for us as players it's impossible to see why something is a yellow for one guy and then in an identical situation it's not a yellow.

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Definitely something not right with cards. I have now been warned by the League three times by January for more than six bookings in a game, have 9 red cards and 78 yellow cards in 38 games (including friendlies and European games). Yet there is no real rhyme or reason for it as I am having games where a lenient Referee is handing out 10 yellow cards and a red and yet a firm Referee is giving only two yellow cards. It's extremely random which gives you absolutely no clue on how to approach games. I am at times changing my tackling to "stand off" when I reach a certain number of cards but then still getting a player sent off. I think a big problem is the amount of yellow cards being given in the first ten and quite often the first five minutes of matches. It's a real lottery.

I'm in Feb and have 34 yellows, 0 reds. Most cards in a game is 3. It's not random. It's a combination of your tactics, your players and how you discipline them.

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Never has this been an issue as much as it is now. People will jump and say "it's your tactics", but it's happened under different tactics on multiple different saves. AI this year just seems so much more ruthless.

27ya1ow.jpg

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Never has this been an issue as much as it is now. People will jump and say "it's your tactics", but it's happened under different tactics on multiple different saves. AI this year just seems so much more ruthless.

You say it can't be tactics because you've used "different tactics" like it's actually valid. They could all have the same fatal flaw that is causing it to happen.

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Never has this been an issue as much as it is now. People will jump and say "it's your tactics", but it's happened under different tactics on multiple different saves. AI this year just seems so much more ruthless.

Clearly your tactics in this case... stop looking at the shots taken, and look at the shots on target.. the score is your 5 to their 2 .. I wouldn't say that was incredible that they got the only goal...

What I would look at is WHY you are only getting 5 on target after so many shots.. that will tell you exactly why you aren't winning this sort of match..

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Press conferences after resigning. I have left my first (and currently only) team after 4 stellar years in the MLS culminating in a world club cup triumph over PSG. The first press conference is good, allowed positive answers but the subsequent media chats focus on what went wrong and what have you learned which seems out of kilter. Very little went wrong, I left with a brilliant record but it feels as though the questions are based on the assumption you left a struggling club

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I'm in Feb and have 34 yellows, 0 reds. Most cards in a game is 3. It's not random. It's a combination of your tactics, your players and how you discipline them.

Well at times I use "get stuck in" but when too many cards are shown in a game I reduce the tackling but still players are getting sent off for a second yellow even when told to stay on feet. I accept you are running a risk using hard tackling but as I said above if a lenient Referee is handing out 10 yellows and a red and a firm Referee is dishing out two it makes management of games a trifle tricky.

As for disciplining the players I apparently did the wrong thing before in warning a player for a first red. In one more recent a new left back was sent off in his first game so as Cougar suggested I fined him two weeks wages for an ugly tackle that was a straight red. Result and unhappy player who has asked to leave after one game and a crack of the whip! You can't win!!

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Not sure it's the defending of crosses that's too bad, more that there's too many crosses coming in. Looking at a couple of saves since 16.2, in the last 20 games in Serie A (2 of mine, 18 AI v AI), there was an average of 55 crosses per game between the two teams. In a Bundesliga save over 18 games, 53 per game.

The real life average varies from league to league but it's about 30-40 per game according to WhoScored. In Germany no team has averaged more than 19 per game this season. I don't know if the crossing stats are measured differently in FM but you're looking at 15-20 crosses a game more than in reality.

The sheer volume of crosses coming in is going to create a lot of goals from them even if they're adequately defended by centre backs and keepers. These stats bear out what I see with my eyes in the ME, which is acres of space out wide for full backs, who will constantly cross if they have an attack duty. This is because defending teams get so narrow regardless of formation or mentality and every midfield and forward role for the attack (apart from maybe Winger - Support) is terrible at creating width and lateral movement once the ball is in the final third. The centre of the pitch becomes very congested and the ball is forced out wide to the only players who have space.

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Well at times I use "get stuck in" but when too many cards are shown in a game I reduce the tackling but still players are getting sent off for a second yellow even when told to stay on feet. I accept you are running a risk using hard tackling but as I said above if a lenient Referee is handing out 10 yellows and a red and a firm Referee is dishing out two it makes management of games a trifle tricky.

As for disciplining the players I apparently did the wrong thing before in warning a player for a first red. In one more recent a new left back was sent off in his first game so as Cougar suggested I fined him two weeks wages for an ugly tackle that was a straight red. Result and unhappy player who has asked to leave after one game and a crack of the whip! You can't win!!

What are your players personalities like? I build squads of professional players & tend to always be on the lowest levels of the discipline table.

Edit: what league are you in? Serie A refs are crazy with cards

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Goals from crosses need fixing before the january update. My tactics see one of my striker score 30 before xmas for the 3rd season running (at my 3rd club in 3 seasons). Each one a whipped cross comes in and he is stood on his own 1 yard in front of keeper to tap in.

It is so boring but I'm reluctant to change my tactics because ME is broken.

Maybe the stats are borked as only certain tactics lead to this situation, as I score all my goals from the situation above but haven't notice the AI do so against me at all.

I agree, very frustrating so far. Strikers are very bad unless they have chances from crosses, it seems the ME does not reward good build up play and one-on-one chances at all. The AI seems to exploit this by scoring from crazy crosses all the time.

I feel like i should instead try to focus on maximizing crossing exploit instead of trying to make logical tactics, the strikers (including the AI ones) are so poor (unless it's a cross) that i'm having to criticize my strikers for their easy misses all the time, at least they accept the criticism. My wingers are my top scorers, even though they have awful finishing stats (it's not even from just crosses that they score from, angled chances seem to be way easier to score in this ME).

It has become so annoying that i'm starting to replay matches that have the annoying crossing bugs for me or the AI, taking the enjoyment out of the game. Sadly i lost my save of FM15 so i don't wanna go back to it, but man, this game is such a disappointment so far, FM15 ME was so much better.

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Tried that plenty. Has the same effect as telling them that I'm happy with how they're doing.

2-0 at half time - DON'T SAY ANYTHING

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I agree with the one-on-one bad finishing.

Also, i seem to get a very high number of shots every game (off or on target).

Does anyone have a comparison between IRL shots/pg vs. in-game shots/pg ? I thinks it's a bit higher in-game...

And one of the causes could be the fact that, MAYBE, the game counts really stupid blocked shots (which i also see them very often) ? Can someone confirm this ?

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match engine broken to be honest all world class strikers cant score one on one waste of time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop with the hyperbole. You've been given advice to post in the Tactics forum. Take it.

EDIT: Otherwise, leave CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, as per the forum house rules. :thup:

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happened to me on about 15 different saves now given up with it different tactics every time so many people saying the same thing not just on here but within my mates at work and down the pub too most of them have given up with it. fingers crossed for the next patch

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with all due respect that is constructive there has been no explanation for this even within the tactical forum which I was redirected to, several other people also having the same problem think it should be noted that it is a common problem!

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with all due respect that is constructive there has been no explanation for this even within the tactical forum which I was redirected to, several other people also having the same problem think it should be noted that it is a common problem!

Plenty of people also don't have the issue. There was no explanation, because you've not bothered to create a thread and post the info required. Without that, you won't be given an accurate answer.

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with all due respect that is constructive there has been no explanation for this even within the tactical forum which I was redirected to, several other people also having the same problem think it should be noted that it is a common problem!

It's not constructive at all, so please desist. Noticed you still havent taken up the advice to open a thread either.

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You say it can't be tactics because you've used "different tactics" like it's actually valid. They could all have the same fatal flaw that is causing it to happen.

I never said it can't be my tactics - just stating that I've tried a number of my own tactics and uploaded tactics with various level teams and still seem to be getting this kind of result. Many of these goals conceded are from another issue that people seem to be having which is overpowered crossing/fb's.

Clearly your tactics in this case... stop looking at the shots taken, and look at the shots on target.. the score is your 5 to their 2 .. I wouldn't say that was incredible that they got the only goal...

What I would look at is WHY you are only getting 5 on target after so many shots.. that will tell you exactly why you aren't winning this sort of match..

And I would counteract that and say look at the CCC's. Opponent zero, myself three. This is the point I was making. AI seems to be better at tucking away CCC's.

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Admittedly I am Real Madrid but my 3.5 star striker (i.e not Ronaldo or Messi level) just scored his 52nd goal in his 36th game. 2 seasons ago I had someone scored 48 in 38 while I finished in Europa League places with Norwich.

Please sort it SI, its like playing FM12 again

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I never said it can't be my tactics - just stating that I've tried a number of my own tactics and uploaded tactics with various level teams and still seem to be getting this kind of result. Many of these goals conceded are from another issue that people seem to be having which is overpowered crossing/fb's.

And I would counteract that and say look at the CCC's. Opponent zero, myself three. This is the point I was making. AI seems to be better at tucking away CCC's.

You realise there is no difference between you and the AI in the match engine, right?

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Admittedly I am Real Madrid but my 3.5 star striker (i.e not Ronaldo or Messi level) just scored his 52nd goal in his 36th game. 2 seasons ago I had someone scored 48 in 38 while I finished in Europa League places with Norwich.

Please sort it SI, its like playing FM12 again

Really not sure what the issue is here tbh. You'd need to upload the save at the very least for them to have anything to go on though

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Admittedly I am Real Madrid but my 3.5 star striker (i.e not Ronaldo or Messi level) just scored his 52nd goal in his 36th game. 2 seasons ago I had someone scored 48 in 38 while I finished in Europa League places with Norwich.

Please sort it SI, its like playing FM12 again

But we have posts just above saying that strikers can't score one on ones? It's really hard to score goals, isn't it? Presumably all of those 100 goals scored by your two strikers must have come from different sources? It's hard to know who to believe these days when two people posts apart have such different experiences :)

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But we have posts just above saying that strikers can't score one on ones? It's really hard to score goals, isn't it? Presumably all of those 100 goals scored by your two strikers must have come from different sources? It's hard to know who to believe these days when two people posts apart have such different experiences :)

As I've said about ten times, there is clearly a tactical set up leading to my situation. Not everyone uses it, including the AI, so the overall statistics may look fine, but there clearly exists a tactical set up that allows for the scoring of repeated tapins from crosses and I've clearly found it and it is ruining my game.

It also didn't exist in previous builds as I've been using the same tactics since before this patch.

It's not that hard to understand.

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but there clearly exists a tactical set up that allows for the scoring of repeated tapins from crosses and I've clearly found it and it is ruining my game.

If this is the case, you know there is something you can do about that?

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If this is the case, you know there is something you can do about that?

More to the point, it should be up with the save/relevant PKMs in the bug section. Otherwise it's impossible for them to see and analyse it.

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If this is the case, you know there is something you can do about that?

Just use different tactics? This is a feedback thread and that would be avoiding the issue rather than seeking to have it fixed.

Although I'm posting in here asking for a change, I do have enough faith that SI must be aware of this issue and are working on it. Given their overall competence it would be mind-boggling if they weren't aware - as I am using tactics that don't seem too out of the ordinary

I'll get round to posting a save at some point nonetheless

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Just use different tactics? This is a feedback thread and that would be avoiding the issue rather than seeking to have it fixed.

Although I'm posting in here asking for a change, I do have enough faith that SI must be aware of this issue and are working on it. Given their overall competence it would be mind-boggling if they weren't aware - as I am using tactics that don't seem too out of the ordinary

I'll get round to posting a save at some point nonetheless

I removed the dig. No need for it and I don't want to see it again.

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You realise there is no difference between you and the AI in the match engine, right?

I think we do realize and there is no need for repeating that mantra. I also realize that AI definitely IS better at finishing, no matter what you say. And I will base this on around 15 seasons played over various saves where there is this common issue of user team with more CCC losing to AI which has less. So you can now say whatever, I know what I see in the game.

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I think we do realize and there is no need for repeating that mantra. I also realize that AI definitely IS better at finishing, no matter what you say. And I will base this on around 15 seasons played over various saves where there is this common issue of user team with more CCC losing to AI which has less. So you can now say whatever, I know what I see in the game.

If you realised that, then you wouldn't have posted what you just did, because what you posted makes no sense then. If the AI and user are no different in the match engine, how can it automatically be better than the user?

Short answer it isn't, and it all comes down to the tools we both have at our disposal both in set up and players. So, your statement that it is definitely better is incorrect.

If people are still interested there is a megathread about this started by a user who believed that, and it was actually disproved by the stats in his own save. (turns out he was the best finisher in his league and 2nd best in europe)

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If you realised that, then you wouldn't have posted what you just did, because what you posted makes no sense then. If the AI and user are no different in the match engine, how can it automatically be better than the user?

Short answer it isn't, and it all comes down to the tools we both have at our disposal both in set up and players. So, your statement that it is definitely better is incorrect.

If people are still interested there is a megathread about this started by a user who believed that, and it was actually disproved by the stats in his own save. (turns out he was the best finisher in his league and 2nd best in europe)

sure,mate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z6pZ6juvEufbSb_3cXb90oBQj0uOoiA3XhC4s-dl3fI/edit#gid=0

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From a design perspective, it would make absolutely no sense for them to design a match engine that does differentiate between user and AI, given that the vast majority of games that code would process would not involve the human team. Given that, it's a logical impossibility that the AI can finish better by coding, because the ME doesn't have any idea who is AI and who isn't. The only entity that can make the AI appear to be a better finisher than a human player is...the human player.

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So what you've shown is that you struggle. Given that you've just posted another thread about your Madrid side and how you are struggling, isn't that where you should start?

The obvious thing for me is the the sheer number of shots telford take compared to any one else.

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A spreadsheet?! Well colour me convinced! Because a spreadsheet of a very isolated human team without any corroborating evidence is always going to trump long-term, wide-ranging soak tests by the people who actually have access to the code base to back it up.

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All that proves is that your tactics need work.

AI & human clubs have access to exactly the same options and are treated in exactly the same way by the ME. If your stats are significantly different to the ones AI clubs get as shown by your spreadsheet then its down to the choices you make.

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Look, there's like 10 people here that will defend the game. I talk with people in RL and they all agree with me on this point. Developing a consistent tactic on this ME is just impossible. On top of that, AI will punish absolutely everything no matter how bad AI's players are.

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So what you've shown is that you struggle. Given that you've just posted another thread about your Madrid side and how you are struggling, isn't that where you should start?

The obvious thing for me is the the sheer number of shots telford take compared to any one else.

Where do you suggest I start? Madrid save just goes as an example of this illogical ME. One system that will give you football that absolutely shatters and destroyes everything when playing at home and then the same system can not buy a win away from home against bottom feeders of the league. Where's the logic in this?

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Look, there's like 10 people here that will defend the game. I talk with people in RL and they all agree with me on this point. Developing a consistent tactic on this ME is just impossible. On top of that, AI will punish absolutely everything no matter how bad AI's players are.

It's not actually a case of defending the game, you're simply wrong, and with respect I'm not going to say you're right just to make you feel better. Both points in bold are completely wrong, Cleon has done exactly that multiple times in varios ways (just one example), and if you truly believe that, you might as well close the thread you made in the tactics section, because it sounds like any advice you are given will fall on deaf ears. Whether you listen or not is entirely up to you, and it makes no difference to me whatsover, but it's still wrong either way. I've got plenty of time for people who are struggling or see genuine issues with the game, and what want to bring notice to them, but less so for people who don't want to listen. Your call.

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Look, there's like 10 people here that will defend the game. I talk with people in RL and they all agree with me on this point. Developing a consistent tactic on this ME is just impossible. On top of that, AI will punish absolutely everything no matter how bad AI's players are.

As TMS has said its not about defending the game because the ME is identical for both AI & human users. The common denominator in these type of issues is the human user and the choices they make.

Your spreadsheet actually proves this:

Season 1 Lowest number of shots by an AI club: 169

Season 1 Highest number of shots by an AI club: 304

Season 1 Shots by human user: 691

Season 2 Lowest number of shots by an AI club: 182

Season 2 Highest number of shots by an AI club: 291

Season 2 Shots by human user: 759

Season 3 Lowest number of shots by an AI club: 178

Season 3 Highest number of shots by an AI club: 294

Season 3 Shots by human user: 503

In each of the three seasons you are having far more shots than any of the 69 AI clubs, so much that it sticks out like a sore thumb each time. The high number of shots is the sole reason for the knock on effect of much higher stats for shots per goal you've experienced.

Anyone looking at those stats from a neutral perspective would immediately see the issue is the number of shots your team is taking and you should be recognising this as well. Once the issue is identified you should be looking at ways to improve it rather than jumping to the "FM is biased reaction".

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It certainly reveals how difficult it is to manage tweaking of the game when half people are in here saying its too hard to score and people like me are complaining that my striker has just hit his 60th of the season in his 41st game.

I'd release my tactic to workshop if steam were still hosting paid mods haha

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In my current game (year 2017) Roma and Marseille are both sitting 2nd in their respective tables and are in the semi finals of the Champions League.

Each of their managers have left the clubs in April to take up new jobs at Man City and Atletico Madrid.

Never going to happen irl with Roma and Marseille still challenging for major honors. Would be nice if AI managers could delay such moves until the end of the season. Caretakers are already part of the game.

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Agreed Dar2000. My main gripe about FM16 is the AI manager appointments system. It's often very bizarre, and about five seasons in it appears as if the game has run out of managers. The same managers who are sacked annually are given jobs at higher division clubs because there appears to be very few candidates. Managers are also leaving successful clubs for sides near the bottom of the table. The successful club will then have the manager sacked from this club as their 'leading candidate'. I now find after five or so seasons that League 2 jobs don't even have a leading candidate, as there are too few managers to go round. I hope this is something which will be repaired in the next patch, as FM15 was far superior in this regard.

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Agreed Dar2000. My main gripe about FM16 is the AI manager appointments system. It's often very bizarre, and about five seasons in it appears as if the game has run out of managers. The same managers who are sacked annually are given jobs at higher division clubs because there appears to be very few candidates. Managers are also leaving successful clubs for sides near the bottom of the table. The successful club will then have the manager sacked from this club as their 'leading candidate'. I now find after five or so seasons that League 2 jobs don't even have a leading candidate, as there are too few managers to go round. I hope this is something which will be repaired in the next patch, as FM15 was far superior in this regard.

So raise a topic in the bugs forum. it helps

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