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DeathJester

FM16: The Bielsa / Sampaoli conundrum: can their philsophies & tactics be replicated?

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I had a fair amount of success in Fm15 replicating both Bielsa and Sampaoli variants of a high tempo, high pressing game. I then created my own tactic which was a hybrid of the two which was very successful too.

But......

I try to achieve the same thing on Fm16 and I'm having mixed results. One game I will win comfortable 5-0 and the next I'm beaten comfortably.

What has changed that could affect this in the tactics and match engine this year?

Has anybody successfully replicated a Bielsa / Sampaoli tactic in FM16?

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I think its the improvements to the ME. The teams you beat 5-0 were they bigger teams? teams at home?

because with the new improvements lesser teams or teams expecting to be beaten playing at your stadium or even at home sometimes will switch to a deep defensive counter tactic and look to pick off your bravado.

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So performing above expectations then?

Meaning that whilst you are getting beat but sometimes crushing people your still above whats expected of you right?

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It's kind of hard to say what may have changed in the ME that could affect your tactic, when we don't know what your tactic is :brock:.

If you tell us that, along with issues that you are seeing, someone may be able to help you with some specifics.

However, you say you are having mixed results, yet you are 8th in the EPL in your first promoted season. That's quite a good overachievement, and something to be happy about.

In the first half of the season you have perhaps benefited from teams playing in a fairly open manner against you, allowing you to get some decent results. Now that you are doing relatively well, more teams are probably tightening up which you may need to adapt to. Further, if you are winning one match 5-0 then getting soundly beaten the next, that may indicate you aren't adapting to things on pitch as you watch the match play out. But of course this may also be a lack of context - maybe you beat Bournemouth 5-0 at home then got hammered by Arsenal away? We don't know. However, neither of those issues are something new in this year's ME.

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I've gone with the Sampaoli approach. I think the Bielsa system with inverted wingback would be harder to implement in FM.

Team instructions: attacking, very fluid, higher tempo, wide, slightly higher defensive line, use offside trap, prevent short gk distribution, use tighter marking, play out of defence, exploit the flanks, look for overlap, retain posession, run at defence

Lineup as follows:

Sweeper keeper

Left complete wingback attack

Ball playing defender defend

Ball playing defender defend

Right complete wingback attack

Half back

Left cm deep lying playmaker support

Right cm centre mid attack

Aml inside forward support

Amr inside forward attack

Striker false nine support

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Note that sometimes, as sampaoli and Bielsa do, agaist two out and out strikers I drop the half back into the middle centre defender slot making a back three putting him on cover duty. The idea that the other two centre defenders can mark the two strikers, giving me the spare man at the back.

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Essentially, you have got just 3 people defending in an extremely aggressive setup.

As teams tighten up against you, they'll just hit you on the break and those 3 defenders won't stand a chance.

It all looks confused to me. For example, you set play out of defence but you have 2 ball playing defenders who are looking for long risky passes. You use an attacking mentality, which already has a high tempo, lots of width and a high def line, then you add more of that in, but then want to reduce the tempo and width by using retain possession. There is a large amount of individual creativity levered into the team by using Very Fluid, so loads of risk taking, in an already risky setup. You have an extremely high defensive line which you are only mitigating by trying to use the offside trap and a sweeper keeper - is your goalie that good? Do your 2 risk taking central defenders have what it takes to play offside?

Take a step back, go through each and every setting and make sure you understand what they all do, how they interact with each other, and that they all contribute to how you want to your team to play.

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I've really struggled with copying Bielsa's system of implementing a 3313 tactic versus 2 opposition strikers, and then a 4231 versus a 1 striker opposition. Bielsa uses both of these tactics in a variety of ways: in the 3313 the wingbacks can be used more centrally as box-to-box midfielders when in possesion with the outside forwards staying as wide as possible, or with the outside forwards staying more central and the wingbacks overlapping them, but Bielsa also does this asymmetrically too. The consistency in all of these variations is that there's always three forwards (one central, and two outside as attacking midfielders) and one enganche; no matter what in both setups. And there must always be an extra center-defender versus the opposition strikers.

In my personal experience, FM16 allows for players to use specific variations of Bielsa's tactics in its ME. But I have not been able to achieve Bielsa's -- what I would call -- standard system, where forwards stay wide as possible while the wingbacks invert into box-to-box midfielder roles, even making central runs into the box.

If I ever crack the code, I'll certainly post to this forum. Just my two cents.

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I've really struggled with copying Bielsa's system of implementing a 3313 tactic versus 2 opposition strikers, and then a 4231 versus a 1 striker opposition. Bielsa uses both of these tactics in a variety of ways: in the 3313 the wingbacks can be used more centrally as box-to-box midfielders when in possesion with the outside forwards staying as wide as possible, or with the outside forwards staying more central and the wingbacks overlapping them, but Bielsa also does this asymmetrically too. The consistency in all of these variations is that there's always three forwards (one central, and two outside as attacking midfielders) and one enganche; no matter what in both setups. And there must always be an extra center-defender versus the opposition strikers.

In my personal experience, FM16 allows for players to use specific variations of Bielsa's tactics in its ME. But I have not been able to achieve Bielsa's -- what I would call -- standard system, where forwards stay wide as possible while the wingbacks invert into box-to-box midfielder roles, even making central runs into the box.

If I ever crack the code, I'll certainly post to this forum. Just my two cents.

As I said before, you are not gonna get wingbacks acting as center muds in this version as they tend to stay wide. Almost like an IF. Not really the role you want to emulate. I can compare this so called IWB role to Robben's role when Pep uses 3 in the back tactics and also Bernardeschi's role in Paulo Sousa's Fiorentina side but not when Millar and Vidal played there as that is still not possible to emulate

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As I said before, you are not gonna get wingbacks acting as center muds in this version as they tend to stay wide. Almost like an IF. Not really the role you want to emulate. I can compare this so called IWB role to Robben's role when Pep uses 3 in the back tactics and also Bernardeschi's role in Paulo Sousa's Fiorentina side but not when Millar and Vidal played there as that is still not possible to emulate

But there are still different means towards those same ends that I have not tested. That's all I'm saying. For example, I still havent tried using two registas with an anchorman, have those outside defensive midfielders mark the opponent attacking mids on the outside, and then instruct those same players to get further forward in possession. Probably won't work, but I have plenty of these type of ideas left to try.

I'm simply making the point that I think it's too early in our experience with FM16 and its ME, as players, so for me to say that something is not possible I feel that I need to test more variations first. Nonetheless, there's plenty variations of Bielsa's 3313 tactic that are indeed achievable in FM16.

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But there are still different means towards those same ends that I have not tested. That's all I'm saying. For example, I still havent tried using two registas with an anchorman, have those outside defensive midfielders mark the opponent attacking mids on the outside, and then instruct those same players to get further forward in possession. Probably won't work, but I have plenty of these type of ideas left to try.

I'm simply making the point that I think it's too early in our experience with FM16 and its ME, as players, so for me to say that something is not possible I feel that I need to test more variations first. Nonetheless, there's plenty variations of Bielsa's 3313 tactic that are indeed achievable in FM16.

Yes, but that variation is not gonna be posssible. You can try to use BBMs and just mark the wingers, but that's it

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