Help Implementing Idea in to FM

[Conflictinbanno]

Hi All,

I've been a user here for quite a long time, but I've never really posted on here. I've played FM for years now, but I have always seemed to find the game very tough. I've had mixed fortunes with tactics due to trial and error, but then I read on here and see people who have managed to make a tactic work for teams I'm surprised to see implementing it.

So I thought finally I should post and ask some questions about how I vision my side playing, the roles I've opted for and TI's etc.

I've always had an idea of how I would like a team to play normally on FM however I have never been able to impose my own style on a team.

Firstly I'll explain how I would like to play, this is all based on how I play FIFA so I'll explain how I play FIFA too to give you all an idea. On FIFA I use a 4231 formation with the 3 attacking midfielders choice (for those who know the game well), I tend to play short passing and possession based football, I can't really remember many games where I would not have 55% possession or more. I like to keep the ball, working the ball around until there is an opening, I find my passing isn't really of a fast or a low tempo, it more depends on how confident I am, the more confident the quicker I get (so I could see this as, if I'm playing someone I can see I'm better than, then the speed will up as my players will naturally be in more space, while the harder the team, the more I slow down and pick my chances more carefully). Although as I say, I play short passing mostly, I do now and then switch the play if there is someone unmarked and I'm under pressure on one side. When it comes to closing down, I wouldn't say I press a lot, my front four are likely to try to press to force a mistake, but if I don't win the ball back there, then I tend to try to keep my shape and make the tackle when it matters, I like to be close to the player when like this, but I wouldn't say I'm closing them down, more I'm just sticking with my men, to try and make it difficult for them to have an option to pass too. That is the best I can really give on the team unit.

For the players, this is where it is slightly different, I always like one of my two DM's to sit, I don't want him pushing up too high even in possession, because it's nice to have that guy there ready to pressure the ball a bit while the rest of my team can get back in shape. While the other DM I see more like a box to box player, someone who can offer a bit of everything, will get forward but will get back. I like my full backs to overlap my two wide CAM players to produce crosses but only when the time is right, I don't want them just bombing down the line. My CB's do just what I'd expect, keep shape and prevent the opposition from going forward, I don't want to see them leaving their position, while the full backs may push up, this is when I expect my defence minded DM to be ready to help cover for the one who does push.

The CAM players are slightly harder for me to explain, the left and right AM's I like to press the full backs when the opposition has the ball in their half, but then after this, I like them to drop and offer a little support for the LB & RB respectively. While the central AM I like to press the CB with the ST or the DM if the opposition has one. With the ball I see these 3 as almost bigger goal threats than my ST at times, purely based on how they move, I like them to pass and move looking to get in the box or offer another option just on the edge of the area. The ST I like to use as a passing outlet, then if the ball goes out wide, he gets in the box or if he is on the edge of the box to be ready for a quick 1-2 to unleash the 3 on rushing players. I like my ST to score too obviously, as I do expect to see them score the most, but I like him doing both. Also the GK I like to go short, be it to any of the nearby defenders, in FIFA this tends to be your LB & RB, but that's mainly because they can't mark both of them.

So now onto how I am thinking it would work in FM terminology.

Firstly Mentality. Again I think this all depends on my opponents and ties in with my tempo. If the player is pressing me constantly, I'm much more likely to be faster in transition as I need to get the ball away from my defenders, as if they are tackled I'm more likely to be exposed, so I would probably say harder teams I will play Counter, while other teams I would play Control but I fear I could have this wrong.

Team Shape, based on THOG's post about this, I think I would be Fluid/Very Fluid as I tend to keep things more compact, although it's hard for me to really notice exactly, so I may keep this as Flexible.

Team Instructions, I've mentioned how I tend to have a lot of possession and pass the ball short, so the two that already jump out are retain possession or shorter passing, I think doubling up on these could be too much, so at the moment I'm thinking retain possession, as I like to keep the ball and this should in effect cover both, other team instructions are the tempo (although I'm hoping this should be covered by the Mentality with Counter or Control), Prevent short GK Distribution (as I would try to stop opponents going short), play out of defence (as I look to play short from defence to attack) and potentially work ball into the box (this is based on, I'm more like to try to be creative to get the ball into the box unless it is a FB crossing, however I'm not sure on this one) and tight marking (based on what I said in regards to I only press with the front players however I like to keep next to my opponents in my half again I'm not 100% certain on this).

In terms of Player Instructions, I would be tempted to have my keeper roll it out to defenders and also maybe the front 4 to all close down more/much more.

Now onto the actual team. I feel it will be a 4231 of sorts, but getting the positions spot on I'm finding tough, as you can't have a B2B midfielder in the DM position (which frustratingly probably describes how one of my DM's works in my head)

GK - Goalkeeper - D

Right Back/Left Back - Full Back/Wing Back - Support (I'm thinking Full Back is going to be more defensively solid, but then these are the only guys I expect to provide crosses, so Wing Back could suit them much more as it will encourage them to run beyond and cross)

Centre Backs - Central Defender - Defend

Defensive Midfielder - this position I am thinking just your generic Defensive Midfielder on a defend duty, I though about an Anchor man but from what I think he would just sit, while a DM - D might press a little more on the man with the ball while my defence holds shape and giving the rest of my attack time to get back although I'm guessing this is one to watch closely.

My engine room player, this is the player I'm not so sure about, I have two options first for his position to decide, he could sit in a DM position like the other DM or I could push him into the CM position. I think if in the DM position he has 3 options, BWM-S as he will primarily try to win the ball when we don't have it, but with the ball he looks to fashion out chances for people, a DM-S again a bit like the BWM he will try to win the ball back, but on a support duty I've noticed they step up into the midfield a bit more. If he was pushed into the CM position I see him as either a B2B midfielder or maybe a CM-S I want him to support those in front of him but I want him to be very ready to get back and defend as soon as we lose the ball.

The 3 Attacking Mid's, in FM terms I'm not sure what is best 3 AMC's or AML/AMR accompanying them, whatever roles they are on the left and right of the 3 have to be on a Support duty as I full expect them to get back and defend if the opposition full back gets forward, if in the AML and AMR roles I'm guessing by my descriptions, the closest role would be Inside Forward, as I expect them to support the ST and AMC and try to get into the box if the chance arrives although I feel on a Support duty they'd be less inclined to run past the attacker so maybe using them on an attack duty with a PI to mark the opposition full back could help with bringing the player back to defend . If however I use them in AMC's I think they are going to be Attacking Midfielders, based on how I want them to be a goal threat or an assist threat, again I worry of keeping them on Support will stop them running beyond the ST so if using attack I could instruct them to mark full back's too but I'm worried that would also drag them out of position. The middle of the 3 is another tough choice for me, I'm worried having firstly of ending up with 3 players on an attack duty leaving me extremely exposed, so I'm tempted to use a support role no matter what, again I see him as probably an Attacking Midfielder, or maybe as an Advanced Playmaker, as this guy has a ST right in front and two guys either side of him trying to run past him he's the one I would much more likely to look for a pass with this player, rather than getting him into the box.

Up front, this is probably my weakest area on picking the right role/duty on any game unless I have two strikers, based on how I described him, I almost see him as a Complete Forward in FM terms, that way he can set people up but also go for goal, the only other one I could think is a DLF, but I don't want him to get in the way of the other players rushing on from behind him. Either role, I almost think a Support role is better.

Can I ask what you guys think of the above, if I'm on the right track or way off what I described? Also which of the 2 DM's and 3 AM's do you think I'm best implementing?

Sorry for the ridiculously long post and thanks to anyone who takes the time to read it and reply, I honestly want to get into this game as much as I used to love FM when I was younger, so I'm thinking this could almost be the perfect way. (In terms of pressing with the attack while being organised with my defence and holding ground, this is the part which is most vital to get right for my vision along with trying to keep the ball as I feel that could be passed over to any formation, but I need to get it right with the formation I know best before I'd be comfortable trying to implement it into 442 diamonds of 352 formations for example haha. I guess that part is like how Swansea stick to possession or Klopp has the gegenpress etc.)

[Conflictinbanno]

I thought I would update this to show I'm not just expecting the help from someone else.

I only managed to play one game with my test, I decided for the test to use Arsenal as I felt they were probably a team who had players capable of playing in the roles I imagined for the formation.

From the game I decided to set the right back and left back to different roles and compare the two. Immediately I felt I was right in considering a wing back support over a full back support. The full back understandably was a lot more cautious when it game to getting forward compared to the wing back. However as a result, the full back was more able to keep his wing protected, although I found the wing back got back pretty well too. For the next game I'm tempted to swap them over and see if the same happens and it isn't just the player.

The full side was this

----------GK-D-----------

WB-S-CD-D-CD-D-FB-S

-------DM-D-RPM-S-----

IF-A-----AP-S--------IF-A

---------CF-S-------------

TI's: Tight Marking, Retain Possession, Play Out Defence, Prevent Short GK Distribution

Team Shape: Fluid

Mentality: Control

PI's: GK - Roll it out. IF's, AP, CF - Close Down More

First thing I'm tempted to change is the GK distribution as I noticed he still launches it from goal kicks (does anyone know if telling him to go to CB's or FB's will stop this?)

Then for the next thing I noticed. The majority of the team played more or less how I expected. Unfortunately the role I wasn't best happy with choosing was the RPM in DM, but because of the position he was in, I felt this was the best option I had as it meant he still got forward plenty of times, quite often just outside the box and was also a good outlet from deep, I played Cazorla here in the first half and Ramsey in the second, any other role in the DM position I think they would have struggled, but thankfully it looked to perform as I hoped, a lot of passes obviously went to them but being the deeper playmaker I'm not surprised by this. As stated before, I felt overall the wing back was a better choice than a full back. The Inside Forwards were probably my favourite's in the game I watched as they did stick out wide and then gravitate in. Despite being 4-0 up at half time (the team I was against did not have a good game), there were two positions that really to me, felt like they were under performing and pretty much not in the game. These being the AP-S (Ozil) and the CF-S (Giroud), I felt Giroud was just never involved, while Ozil very rarely saw the ball. So I tried the second half with an AF instead of CF to try and see if it performed better, and it seemed to look better, he was pressed to their CB's more, so I think the CF just dropped a little too deep and within doing this in took up an area which the AP wanted to use (but this is something I will want to keep an eye on in testing).

So far that's what I've seen and overall I'm happy but I feel there could be some things that need working on.

These are probably the points I noticed I wasn't as impressed with. Wing Back's crossing, as good as they played, they were much more likely to pass back instead of crossing (this could be more to do with using retain possession, but the wing back saw a lot of the ball, so maybe it's a good thing they didn't cross as much as it would have countered the possession side of things), the AP and CF especially (I honestly think this could be because CF was the wrong choice so going to try with a different role here as said), then the last thing I wasn't as impressed with, was the amount of times they would dribble rather than passing a bit more, I'm guessing however this could be encouraged by the roles but I'm not sure, as I would guess RPM, AP and IF all like to dribble with the ball, where I would probably prefer to see them pass and move more than receive the ball and dribble, so would using Dribble Less encourage that as a TI? As I'd much rather see pass and move more than dribbling.

Thanks again guys.

[StayUnited]

You've set up a pretty balanced formation, I have a few minor suggestions:

1) Dribble Less would certainly help pass and move, yes.

2) You should play a lower tempo against stubborn defences and a higher tempo against attacking teams imo. This is because you want to probe for an opening patiently in the former situation, while for the latter you want to make sure you counter swiftly if the attacking team loses the ball.

3) IFs are quite trigger happy, do you see them make quite a few attempts from far? From my own personal experience Work Ball Into Box does limit their shots, for a more opportune moment in which to shoot.

4) Since mentalities higher than Standard encourages short passing between defenders, Play Out Of Defence is not needed.

Overall, these are just minor adjustments and i think this is a solid, effective system you've created, well done.

[Conflictinbanno]

So after reading a lot of threads on here, I've become more inspired than ever to make a tactic to play football the way I would like, rather than one the is built on a per team basis.

Above I feel I misinterpreted everything I wanted to do, I was much more looking at the attacking phase of play much more than the defensive phase. So I feel, on paper, my tactic could look a little negative, but I want it to be executed in a very different way.

Most of my principles are still the same with how I want players to play, although I would like to incorporate an attacking full back into this but I will explain in detail.

Goalkeeper – As I said, I almost always throw the ball to my full backs and from goal kicks, I tend to pass it to the nearest full back, so he has a distribution to roll it out and distribute to full backs but stays as a normal Goalkeeper/Defend.

Left Back/Right Back – both of this players I want to support the player in the ML/MR spots but I still want them to get up and provide crosses, from reading herne79’s development of his 442 and finding the FB/S role feeling isolated from the attacking winger, I’ve opted for WB as the role to approach, it also removes cross from deep in addition to adding get further forward which encourages them to get forward and support and with the removal of cross from deep it means they may mix where they cross from a bit and I suddenly feel like I may not need an attacking full back as a result

Centre Backs – this basically picks itself and I’m sticking with the CD/D combo for now. As it is the most sensible role for them to do the defensive job but also keep it simple in the passing.

Defensive Midfielders – as before I want one guy who isn't going to leave that gap between the defence and midfield so one is going to be either a DM/D or a HB, the HB is tempting as it discourages him to close down more and is more likely to hold position, but it could be too negative. For now I will keep the HB role but could change to a DM/D if we have nowhere near enough pressure on the ball. His partner is the one I want to see a lot more from in terms of activity and again is one I’m almost considering moving to CM because I feel the idea of him is a B2B midfielder, but I think it could be possible to do with a player in the DM position. From looking at the roles closely, I want him to be moving around looking for the ball while the other guy sits, to me this sounds like the RPM, my only issue with this is the dribble more PI as it discourages passing and moving but more on how I hope to battle this soon.

Wide Midfielders – For these, I feel I learned a lot from herne79’s post again, I’ve almost always just used IF or W in an AMR/AML position without thinking of the PI’s and his post was a real eye opener, so I’ve kind of stolen what he did in that sense and have used the WM option. On the left he is an attack duty, as I want him to be like an IF to come in and support the attacker, he will also have the PI Cut Inside and Cross Less, I also later decided to add Dribble More, the reason being this is one player I want to see actively running at people with the ball and the addition of Dribble Less TI will discourage that even more than normal. While on the right I want him to be more like a winger in the sense of getting forward and back so he stays on a support duty and gets Cross More

AM – This guy is going to be hub of creativity, but I also definitely need him to help score a little although I imagine the LM and ST should in theory score more than this guy, he should have more assists in that sense. I want him to be looking for space and then attacking it before feeding one of the players nearby or possibly having a go himself if the opportunity arises, which is making me think the Trequarista is the most suited. I thought about an AP and an Engache but both of this are going to want to never shoot, which is more of a decision I’d like the player to make, while the Trequarista should also look for that space wherever it could be.

ST – Again I still see this as a tough role to choose, I want him pushing their defence back, I don’t need him to drop into the space that the players behind him will be using, I also want him to primarily score the goals but maybe play it if he can, I feel like this rules out Poacher as he is much less likely to create and focus much more on that goal. Which makes me feel the AF is probably the best decision for me, although a DF/S could also work but I feel it is less likely to see them go for goal, but it’s definitely a possibility.

Team Instructions, now I normally feel like here, I never have any or have too many it seems, but for the purpose of how I want to play I’m adding Retain Possession, I want to keep the ball but I don’t want to make them never cross/go long so I feel this is the better option, as I feel Shorter Passing is more about trying to play it short, while retain is about actually keeping the ball and looking for the best pass. The only other one I’m going with is dribble less, the reason for this is I much prefer pass and move, than seeing a player beat 3 players and score, as impressive as that is, it doesn’t suit the philosophy I want to play, I’m much more a 3 touch player than run at the man. Make the ball do the work as such.

Next I’m going to take the approach of not focussing on the games, but more my players, I need to make sure they are all working in the exact way I would like. I’m using West Ham for this test, so I already know I’m not the strongest in the league and also some players have some detrimental PPM’s so I may need to train them to forget them, but for now I won’t touch them until I know the tactic is known.

Next I know I need to watch some matches and report on how each player performs, I will be watching this games in full and using a mix of first team and youngsters, which is to go with my own personal philosophy that I have always wanted thanks to being a West Ham fan, to bring through young exciting players, with the likes of Burke, Oxford, Samuelsen in the youth side and maybe even see if I can push others like Elliott Lee would be impressive.

[Clifton]

Good luck with this.

The way you describe how you want your team to play is exactly how I have been trying to get my Arsenal team to play - and so far I have failed miserably. Am just about to have another start, so have picked up a few ideas from this thread and will see how I get on. I will let you know if I get anything to work that achieves this style of play.

What formation are you now playing? Have you brought your two wider AM's back to a more conventional ML and MR?

[Conflictinbanno]

Good luck with this.

The way you describe how you want your team to play is exactly how I have been trying to get my Arsenal team to play - and so far I have failed miserably. Am just about to have another start, so have picked up a few ideas from this thread and will see how I get on. I will let you know if I get anything to work that achieves this style of play.

What formation are you now playing? Have you brought your two wider AM's back to a more conventional ML and MR?

Hi Clifton,

Thanks for the good luck, I think I will need to be patient with it as I've never really managed to make these ideas work perfectly and normally I base my formation with the team I am (for example my Ipswich game is using a flat 442 just because they had the players to fit it.

The formation I have is exactly as you described so 4 at the back with 2 DM's sitting in front, conventional ML and MR (it had two benefits to me as I like these positions to help the full backs and where I find AML/AMR do get back, I find sometimes they won't try to as much as I probably want), then I have an AMC and ST ahead.

I haven't had the chance to play the first game yet, but I know the first few games are against much poorer opposition so I'm going to try and focus a lot on what each player does. From reading herne79's post about how he just watches his own players and sometimes might rewind a game to make sure they played like he saw they should is something I'm using as to make it work.

Also the reason I opted for this formation is because it will be my defensive shape which I want, other options I think I had available to me were 4141 and trying to push one CM into an AMC role with the ball, or a 4411 and trying to push a CM into the DM position without the ball, both of which are definitely possible, but I found I wanted someone for the main DM to be very close to him to feed the ball too who does more, hence the choice of an RPM as he should move as freely as I need and be involved in attacking and defending a bit more.

[Conflictinbanno]

The first match, Europa qualifier V Europa FC.

Now first off, I wasn't expecting much of a challenge, so this game to me, was a friendly. So I lined up like so

------------Adrian---------------

Tomkins Reid Burke Cresswell

---------Noble Obiang----------

Antonio-------------------Payet

------------Zarate--------------

------------Sakho--------------

Now from what I saw in the game, first of was the defensive shape which is exactly what I expected, a 4231 DM wide but with the AMR and AML much deeper. What I first noticed when we didn't have the ball was in the opposition half, the only two players who really tried to win the ball back were Zarate and Sakho, while the others were more likely to drop back into position, unless they were right next to the ball, again something I hadn't thought of but did hope.

We opened the scoring with a very nice move in my opinion and I will try to get some pictures uploaded to show this, but about half way into the opposition half Noble (RPM), picked up the ball, he had one player closing him down so didn't dribble but played a simple pass to the feet of Sakho, As Sakho receives it, Zarate makes a run into the box while Sakho feeds the ball out to the right where Antonio hits a first time cross (Cross more often I assume coming into play here) where Zarate has a nice easy tap in from the edge of the 6 yard box.

The second goal starts with Noble again (much like I'd have thought with him being the RPM), he receives the ball in our own half near the centre circle, moves the ball forward to the half way line and switches play to Cresswell on the left, Cresswell brings the ball forward slightly before playing Payet through in front of him, he turns to what I thought was make a run in the box, but instead he holds onto the ball, waits for Sakho to get in the middle and pings a cross straight onto his head to make it 2. I don't know if the holding onto the ball before waiting for Sakho to arrive was the cross left instruction coming into play, but either way it has still been a nice move to make.

Other than the goals, the first half was fairly impressive, I saw a lot of switches of play between the left and right which surprised me, but I guess they were thinking more of keeping the ball. We created a good couple of chances from Antonio/Tomkins crossing from the right and finding Payet on the left edge of the 6 yard box, but the keeper denied him both times, while Noble made a good run in the box after a corner was cleared back to him where he hit the bar (however I don't feel my tactics really influenced that), while Sakho also hit the post when a passing move between what felt my whole midfield ended in Zarate playing Sakho through only to hit the woodwork. The only gripe I really had was it felt like there were a lot of clearances from the defence, all I can think that caused this could be the Standard mentality and not having play out of defence selected, so for the second half I added this, also there was a change at LM with Payet making way for Moses due to stamina after taking a knock.

The second half, was very much the same in terms of domination, we kept the ball as believed but there were less clearances what I did expect with the new TI added (one I will probably keep), however with the removal of Payet, we didn't seem to get as many shots away, I'm not sure why unfortunately but I will keep a close eye on it for now if I play Moses there again, As there were a few times where Moses was in a similar position to Payet in the first half but opted to pass back or lost possession, but this could be player quality. Also another thing I noticed was my side getting to the edge of the opposition area, then almost seemingly not being sure what to do with it however this could be the players. Around the 60th minute, due to fatigue I also brought off Noble and Zarate, coming on for them was Kouyate (although he swapped with Obiang to take the HB role) and Lanzini. Now what I noticed about this was, Obiang was a little more cautious than Noble in coming forward and Lanzini was much more likely to drop deep to receive the ball, it isn't a PPM Lanzini has, but I wonder if because Obiang was lightly less forward than Noble was, Lanzini was dropping more to compensate for that?

Overall I felt the game went OK, the first half attacking wise was better, while the second half we kept the ball better, but the subs really did hamper our performance, which I really think was my choice of putting Obiang into the RPM role mainly because I wanted to see Kouyate as the HB, I may have been better bringing Lanzini on for Noble or something slightly different to what I did as I noticed the change between Obiang and Noble completely.

There was one last thing that concerned me towards the last 10/20 minutes of the game when defending too, was that my RM Antonio, started really coming into the middle to pressure players which confused me a little as the 2 DM's were already back, so I'll keep an eye here to see if it was a one off!

[Conflictinbanno]

Okay, I thought I would finally update this with some screenshots.

So firstly my tactic

I've chosen this formation because I like the protection of two DM's and the ML/MR give me a bit more comfort when defending personally.

I've opted for 2 instructions of Dribble Less, the reason for this is I want my players to be more tempted to pass and move, rather than dribble (although some players will differ because of their roles, however I assume the dribble less TI will knock down the dribble more PI a little. The next is retain possession, I want to try to keep the ball if we have it but unlike a lot of people, I don't want this to be limited to just short passing which is why I've ruled shorter passing out. As mentioned in the post above, I found some players still switched the ball and hopefully this isn't a one off. I may add play out of defence, for the simple fact I found my defenders sometimes tried to clear it when they could have made a simple pass, but went for the safer option, so I might try to encourage them to try and pass it around from the back too.

Player roles wise there are only a few I think could do with some explaining to why I chose them over something else.

WB/S for the full backs. I thought about using FB/S but the only thing that deterred me a bit was having cross from deep, I don't want them to feel they should cross from there and would like them to feel happy to push up a bit if the space is there, although the get further forward PI it comes with which possibly explains the next role I feel I could do with explaining.

The choice of a HB, when the role I explained is probably more an Anchor Man, as I don't want him to really move from in front of the back 4, but the HB in possession drops into the CB area. It works okay with the WB's getting further forward though. However if I change to FB/S then I may consider Anchor Man. While I feel the RPM next to him is self-explanatory, it was the closest I think I could get to a B2B midfielder as he seems to be an active player in attack and defence, although has a little more creativity.

The next role's are the Treq and the AF, I took a lot of inspiration from other threads here and realising the creative player I wanted to work all over the space and I feel he could link up well with the RPM and AF especially, I also want a player who contributes with mostly assists but goals as well. While the ST I wanted to be trying to push defenders deeper to give the Treq and RPM more space to work with and also I want him to be a major presence in the area.

PI's are only applied to the following, GK, LM and RM.

The goalkeeper has pass it shorter, distribute to full backs and roll it out, this is because of how I play on FIFA by giving them the ball to start attacks and I'd rather he doesn't give possession back to the opposition.

The LM has dribble more, cross less often and cut inside with the ball. This is because I want him to join the ST in being a goal threat and be in the box as much as possible, I don't expect him to be out wide in attack, I want this player to be like the Walcott of my FM team and cutting in, dribble more is because this is one of the players I don't mind seeing taking people on to score.

The RM has cross more often, this is actually a PI I'm questioning a little bit as although I want him to be up and down the touchline, I'm not actually sure I want him to cross more than normal, as he could have good options with a short pass back to the RPM or in to the T or AF.

First Game Analysis

As I said above I felt I dominated the game as I expected, but I want to pick up on the things I looked at from the game first of all.

Firstly the first half, without the ball our positions very much resembled what I wanted

This was the position our team retreated too.

This seemed to be a common thing I noticed when we won the ball back with the HB dropping into the CB area as expected of the role while the WB's moved up, I'm still undecided as I'm not sure this is what I want, I'd rather the full backs a little ahead of the CB's while 1 DM stays in front allowing the RPM to move around freely.

This is the start to our first goal and shows a lot more of what I wanted from my team shape (so the HB does what I want further up the pitch, while I think we had just won the ball so the WB's were deeper) as you can see Noble has what I'd call 2 decent options to pass to, he opts for Sakho.

Here Sakho has just received the pass and I'd say he only really has an option of back to Obiang which is easy yet he quickly feeds it to the space in front of Antonio which was a good pass but I didn't notice it during the game!

Antonio plays a first time cross, possibly because of the on coming full back into what I would call the best area in front of the goalkeeper and behind the defender marking Zarate, the defender back tracking is at a disadvantage which gives Zarate the easiest of tap ins, but it was a good move.

This image is just to show the second goals assist location, I'll be honest I wasn't expecting him to cross, I thought he'd bring it into the space in front of him, instead however he held onto the ball waiting for Sakho to get into the area and giving him a decent cross to head home

This was the HT overall positions which I think showed a decent sign of how I wanted to play. Everyone's positions look pretty spot on.

This is the overall position at FT Obiang #14 is a little behind #16 in Noble but he did play 65% of the game at HB, Lanzini #28 however is something which worries me, he is so much deeper than who he replaced #10. I did notice however that when he came on he kept coming deep to get the ball and I feel that was because Obiang wasn't really bringing the ball forwards like Noble in the same role. Other than that is was very much the same. Which is one issue I'm not sure how to resolve yet!

[Conflictinbanno]

For the next match I decided to tweak a couple of things, firstly the LB and RB, I wanted to test on a FB role rather than WB, I liked the movement of the FB but I feel they could be a little too attacking to my formation (maybe using one on the right and a FB on the left could give me the balance I need), next I also decided to remove cross more often off of the RM, crossing more is going to encourage him to cross which I might not want the more I think of it, I don't mind him crossing but I'd rather he decides for himself if a cross is the right choice. Lastly the HB, I admitted I liked it, but a HB does drop into the defence when we get the ball early, something I'd rather not encourage, I still want him holding though, so I've gone for an Anchor in this position. So we line up as follows (I've also rotated my squad as Europa will take it's toll and I want to use my whole squad to help with this. The only players who stay are Adrian and Noble the latter because I don't really feel anyone else other than Lanzini can play there and he is the only one of my subs who can play in the AMC role too.

The image doesn't show the Full backs role change so please ignore that! Also Burke got injured in the coming days to the game so he was switched with James Collins, I've also added play out of defence from last game as I felt this would encourage less clearances when you could find a pass.

1-0 up at HT, I was surprised, I think I preferred the full backs to wing backs firstly, as they were a little less eager to run forwards, rather more to pick their time, so there is a high chance I'll keep this. Next the Anchor again in defence he was much like the HB, yet with the ball, he was less keen to drop into the defence, unless a player pulled themself out of the back 4, then he would be happy to drop as a cover, something which I did like.

Unfortunately Lanzini didn't play long enough to see if he just drops a lot as a Trequarista as he was injured on the 20 minute mark, although looking at the average positions he was deeper than Payet who replaced him, although Lanzini did get an assist with a through ball to Jelavic who had a simple one on one as a result. Jelavic however does have a PPM of tries to beat offside trap which is incredibly frustrating as he seems to time it early a lot! The only thing I do feel, is there are still a few too many long passes, so for the second half I added Shorter Passing (I know I already have Retain Possession so I'm not sure if I should remove this as a result but for the half I decided to keep both as I still want them to try and keep the ball.

HT Positions

HT Stats

The second half I was actually a lot more disappointed, personally at least. I felt there were more clearances as such or longer passes attempted, my first thought to this was retain possession and shorter passing was actually hurting myself more. I felt as a result I had two option, lower the tempo, try to make my players consider their passes or the other was remove retain possession. I decided on the latter personally, I didn't want my team to slow down, I just wanted them to stop going direct. I tried this about the 65 minute mark and I'll be honest I didn't see too much difference, so that made me think, maybe it is just how comfortable with the tactic, I'm not really sure though. Defensively, I was impressed, it's much more what happens when we have the ball that I'm disappointed in.

This was the average positions at full time, which I'm pretty pleased with and feel is why defensively it is quite good. However the attacking play I'm not sure what I can do yet. I feel my players aren't moving enough, which in turn is making them clear the ball or go long as they aren't finding space well, instead they just sit happily being marked.

This is the match stats at full time. Things that jump out at me here, are actually the amount of missed shots. My pass completion isn't actually as bad as I thought, although I'd of preferred it to be higher.

This was passes out of play or intercepted. Looking at this I'm trying to ignore the more defensive ones as I assume this was them just clearing the danger, in the last third it seems a lot more are balls into the box, which I suppose could happen, or plays out wide missing their target and going out of play, or being intercepted on the edge of the area.

This is the shots that missed the target, I'm not going to include the woodwork ones as I feel this alone tells the main story. 3 shots are in the box, two of which are a CB, so I can safely presume these are from a corner. The other 9 however, are all on the edge of the area. Which I feel ties in a story with the interceptions on the edge of the area, my team are going to struggle to score if they can't get the ball into the box.

In all this all tells me a story, my passing isn't as bad as I think, I'm probably just noticing the longer ones as they are being intercepted/going out of play clearer. I have a much bigger issue on the edge of my area. Which makes me feel there's two roles that might be the things I'm questioning. The trequarista and the AF, although the RPM could come into this as well. These 3 are the main culprits of the long shots, although the RPM and Treq are the two main ones, it makes me think the AF probably had a long shot when he was the only one up there and I can remember one of Jelavic's from the game where I understood why he went for the long shot, as no one else was with him at the time. The Treq and RPM though, should always have at least 1 player ahead in the AF, the RPM should have the Treq in front too. I wonder if this is linked to the issue I have of my players being a little too static, the Treq was one player I kept watching and he just jogged with the man marking him which I really didn't like, so it makes me think if there is any role that isn't playing how I want, it could be this one. The thing is, I'm not sure what would be a better option here. I still want this player to be creative, but I think I need him to get into better positions in attack, I need him to assist a lot and I'd almost expect him and the AF to be the main goal threats, with a little help from the RPM and the LM.

The other way could be work into the box, but with the amount of passes on the edge of the area not working, I feel it will harm the tactic more than benefit it.

Would an AM or AP be a better choice for what I want from that position? Or am I missing a glaring issue?

[herne79]

I think there may be a couple of things at play here.

First, player attributes and PPMs. Does your TQ have a good work rate? Comes Deep to get Ball PPM? Decent aggression? That may be why you are just seeing him "jogging along with the man marking him". Go through each of your players and see if they are suitable for how you envision the role playing. For example, Jenkinson has the PPM Gets Forward Whenever Possible; if you want your left wing dribbling more, can he actually dribble; can your right winger cross the ball; and so on - look at everyone.

Second, you may lack a midfield runner. The RPM is supposed to do this, but is he actually doing it? Is he getting up to support your attack well? Remember he also has the set PI to Dribble More which you can't change. Is that suitable? Could a DM(support) with the PI Get Further Forward added be an option instead?

It's trial and error I'm afraid .

[Conflictinbanno]

Thanks herne.

I have a feeling a lot of this could be player attribute more than anything, it was just where I was inspired by Cleon's art of possession/counter attacking threads, that I thought, maybe I can get them to play a specific style, but maybe the style in my head is a lot more reliant on players attributes rather than being one you could push to everyone (I imagine it's quite a demanding style I have).

For the TQ I was initially thinking Lanzini, who has a PPM of runs with ball often, something I can accept, he has an OK work rate of 12 and the same with aggression, so he may not actively push his way past and lose his marker. Payet who was the player in question covering when he was injured however has a work rate of 11 and aggression 9, so could be the issue there. The other player I used was Zarate in the first game who has an even worse work rate of 6 but an aggression of 13.

However I did say I thought the issue with the TQ coming deep was always coupled when I had to replace Noble at the RPM with Obiang. He only has the PPM tries long range passes (he was a major culprit of long balls out wide going off the pitch, so this could answer that, he has decent dribbling at 14 but poor acceleration and agility at 10 each so maybe he just struggles to keep up so he as a result is deeper, which has a knock on effect and pulls the TQ deeper. Noble was pretty good at supporting the attack but Obiang I did find was deep at times. The wingers are all pretty decent at dribbling so that shouldn't cause an issue.

So the more I think how I want to play, maybe I'm being a little too demanding and should approach the team differently. Rather than imposing them to play a specific way, maybe I'm better doing what I'm doing with Ipswich and making a team to suit them while slowly improving it, a bit like Cleon is doing with Sheffield United.