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Fenech

Liverpool Possession Tactic with a Very Attacking intent! Ultimate Doom!

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into final of league cup again. beat hull 7:1 on aggregate 2nd leg 4:1 61% poss 19 shots 7 on target. before that match i got hammered 4:2 by newcastle. football is a funny old game.

It is a funny old game! :thup:

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All the posts bickering have now been removed. Any more and severe infraction will be given out. If someone is posting nonsense in the thread then ignore it and hit the report button.

Also please don't post your emails in the thread, DM the OP instead please.

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Hi Fenech,

I had a go with your tactic yesterday. Played 5 friendlies (unbeaten) then won 2 league games (both 3-0), 1 draw (0-0) and won a cup game (1-0).

The football is really good to watch with your tactic. The GK, central midfielders and defenders get very high ratings.

As someone recommended earlier in thread I used Sw Keep S to try to prevent through balls. Was caught out in early friendlies by long balls over top but once players used to tactic the defence was excellent.

Milan don't really have any inside forwards so would need to go into transfer market - guess need right footed AML and left footed AMR to make most of inside forwards.

The only problem I had was the forward (F9). My whole team had really good ratings but the F9 (tried Bacca & Balotelli) only got 1 goal in 8 games and a 6.6 rating (I tried complete forward Att and also shoot more as well). If you've any pointers re: striker would appreciate it.

Thanks

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There's got to be something that works to tighten up after you take the lead away against a good side, or a team at home with a higher reputation than yourself? Either that or I need to sign Embolo... :lol:

59OD2eB.png

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Hi Fenech,

I had a go with your tactic yesterday. Played 5 friendlies (unbeaten) then won 2 league games (both 3-0), 1 draw (0-0) and won a cup game (1-0).

The football is really good to watch with your tactic. The GK, central midfielders and defenders get very high ratings.

As someone recommended earlier in thread I used Sw Keep S to try to prevent through balls. Was caught out in early friendlies by long balls over top but once players used to tactic the defence was excellent.

Milan don't really have any inside forwards so would need to go into transfer market - guess need right footed AML and left footed AMR to make most of inside forwards.

The only problem I had was the forward (F9). My whole team had really good ratings but the F9 (tried Bacca & Balotelli) only got 1 goal in 8 games and a 6.6 rating (I tried complete forward Att and also shoot more as well). If you've any pointers re: striker would appreciate it.

Thanks

Hi Markmilan,

The idea I had when setting this tactic up was on the basis of the role of the False Nine

F9_zpslyzddjqs.png

He drops deep into midfield. If the defenders leave him, he has all the time in the world to dribble and pick out a PASS (which is good for keeping possession)

I don't think the defenders leave him though, I think they blindly follow him! Which leaves the space behind him for my onrushing attacking mid fielders and inside forwards and this is often evident by the amount of clear cut chances created in the game. So you see, that the False isn't meant to score alot of goal. Now saying that when I used the stoke save, Anthony Martial was the false nine and he was the main goalscorer, so maybe the defenders were leaving him alone!

I don't know if your aware, but one great feature in Football Manager 2016, which is fantastic, is you can now search for Player Roles in the Scouting section, So you can search for all players with their best role being False Nine or any other position, you can even check for players who can partially play that role as well. Eto'o is a great false nine, and Humberto Suazo as well, ok they are 34 but they have one good season... Young false nines include Callum Wilson at Bournemouth and Zach Clough at Bolton.

If you don't find luck there, you can also go into player attributes and find the key attributes for a false nine, and then do a search that way...

You can even save the search as a short-list as well so you can use it for future reference. Below you can see such an example, all those players would make great false nines!

F9%20Search_zpsfv1gis3v.png

So in summary, remember the false nine may not be your main goal scorer, he might be helping the other players to score and always find the player which most suits the role by using the brilliant features in football manager that help you to this end. :thup:

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There's got to be something that works to tighten up after you take the lead away against a good side, or a team at home with a higher reputation than yourself? Either that or I need to sign Embolo... :lol:

59OD2eB.png

Seriously, your not going to win every game, I would not use a tactic which wins every game because it is unrealistic! Unless you happen to have a super team and become invincible like Arsenal! Check out Cleon's Thread on the INVINCIBLES - Squad Building here.

http://sisportscentre.com/invincibles-squad-building/

However of course you can tighten up, you might want to reduce the width. that will tighten it up, you may want to go to standard instead of control, that too would tighten up, I might tighten up if leading 1-0 with 15 mins to go and if i do that, i normally have another shut up shop tactic in place to switch to just to see out the game. It is up to you, some players tighten up the existing tactic, by making common sense changes, and other players have a seperate park the bus tactic to switch to, and other players have three different tactics and alternate through out the season.

The fantastic thing about football manager is that there are so many different ways to play the game and every manager can do it differently, and there is no right or wrong way to do it either. just develop a strategy that works well for you and do it in your own way. what works for me may not work for anyone else, and what works for you will not work for me, so if you want to tighten up, then there are many ways you can do it and many different strategies you can employ to that end! :thup:

The simple thing would be just to buy Embolo :lol:

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Playing as Barca and I signed Mario B on a bosman at the end of the 2016-17 season.

He plays the F9 role as Messi's back up so he's maybe started 10-15 games with about the same off the bench and has so far (currently in Feb 2018) scored 26 goals :)

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Thanks for the reply Fenech & information.

This is a really good tactic you've developed and thanks for all the explanations, found it really useful.

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Playing as Barca and I signed Mario B on a bosman at the end of the 2016-17 season.

He plays the F9 role as Messi's back up so he's maybe started 10-15 games with about the same off the bench and has so far (currently in Feb 2018) scored 26 goals :)

Nice, I gave Bacca much more gametime than Supermario yesterday as F9 so will look to change this!!! Thanks

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Nice, I gave Bacca much more gametime than Supermario yesterday as F9 so will look to change this!!! Thanks

He's normally the first player ppl look to sell but I thought I'd take a chance :)

.... Glad I did!!

He only has passing of 13 but vision and technical attributes are very good.

It maybe shouldn't work - but it does :D

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He's normally the first player ppl look to sell but I thought I'd take a chance :)

.... Glad I did!!

He only has passing of 13 but vision and technical attributes are very good.

It maybe shouldn't work - but it does :D

It should work! Vision is very important, you can have all the passing ability in the world, but if you do not have the Vision (Creativity) to pick out a pass, your just not going to be able to 'see' the pass to use your passing ability to maximum effect.

Technique is one of the most important attributes a player should possess. It shows that the player is skilful & a visionary, a great combination. :thup:

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It should work! Vision is very important, you can have all the passing ability in the world, but if you do not have the Vision (Creativity) to pick out a pass, your just not going to be able to 'see' the pass to use your passing ability to maximum effect.

Technique is one of the most important attributes a player should possess. It shows that the player is skilful & a visionary, a great combination. :thup:

Yep fair point :thup:

I don't think I have anyone in my squad with less than 14 passing though apart from Mario :)

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Yep fair point :thup:

I don't think I have anyone in my squad with less than 14 passing though apart from Mario :)

That's good, it stands to reason that passing ability is very important if you want to play possession football. :thup:

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Fenech,great work, can you send the tactic to me ? my email is ............[/email]
Also please don't post your emails in the thread, DM the OP instead please.

Please remove your email from the thread. DM the OP instead please

All the information is on the opening page, so you can easily copy the information from there. :)

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Sorry, last one I'll share with you...always nice over your bitter rivals!! edit: their red card was after 87mins too when i was already 6-0 up :)

J2jp1UR.jpg

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Sorry, last one I'll share with you...always nice over your bitter rivals!! edit: their red card was after 87mins too when i was already 6-0 up :)

J2jp1UR.jpg

Keep them coming! Always nice to hear good news! Now that's how you win a derby match, 5 clear cut chances! 62% possession and they got a red card! Quite clear that they couldn't handle you, they performed well below par! Keep up the great work!

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Hi Fenech,

Managed to find this thread after it was linked to in a team guide, I forget who's now. Loved the write up and the style of football you wanted from your tactic, so decided to give it a go, new save, plugged in from pre-season and suffice to say it's done the business, won the title with 6 games to go. Few screenies of stuff below.

First Team

lflQ19k.png?1

Second Team

d00kMGo.png?1

League Table

gstuVXy.png?2

Fixtures

7dcHcPW.png?1

rPEzSli.png?1

On top of that, in the second leg against Madrid, I won 4-0! Absolutely smashing it with this.

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Hi Fenech,

Managed to find this thread after it was linked to in a team guide, I forget who's now. Loved the write up and the style of football you wanted from your tactic, so decided to give it a go, new save, plugged in from pre-season and suffice to say it's done the business, won the title with 6 games to go. Few screenies of stuff below.

First Team

lflQ19k.png?1

Second Team

d00kMGo.png?1

League Table

gstuVXy.png?2

Fixtures

7dcHcPW.png?1

rPEzSli.png?1

On top of that, in the second leg against Madrid, I won 4-0! Absolutely smashing it with this.

Well done! That is a great Achievement! 6 Games to Go! Can't ask for any more than that, time to let the kids play now.. :thup:

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A few people on here have expressed an interest in a tactic that just tightens things up when leading. I have developed a shut up shop strategy, park the coach strategy which is based on the Ultimate Doom Tactic. In football there will always be times in a match when you say thats it, i want to hold on to what I have, everyone is different, but remember do not employ these strategies too early in a game or they might backfire! I personally would not use this strategy until the 60th minute at the very earliest and usually I leave it until the 85th minute. So.......... Exactly when do I Park the Coach!

1) If leading by only one goal with 5-15 minutes of normal time left in the game.

2) If level away from home with 5-15 minutes of normal time left in the game

3) If holding on to an aggregate lead of 1 goal or away goals in a big European tie with 30 minutes left in the game.

First of all then let's have a look at the tactic itself.

SUS1_zpsvy14uemq.png

When you want to defend a lead you have to change your philosophy to Instructive and no messing around. No Nonsense from the players. You must make it clear! I tell them, I park the coach, you do not have to score, but you cannot concede! You must not deviate from the plan even for a second! Hold on to what we have.

This tactic is called Ultimate Defence

Mentality: Contain

Team Shape Highly Structured

As this tactic is Highly Structured I can now give the players quite a few more personal instructions which is perfect because it is very important that your shut up shop tactic is reflective of the tactic which you use already, in this case: Ultimate Doom.

So what have I done? And what has happened to the Inside Forwards!? Well, I have moved them back one space.... I achieved this by making them both Wide Midfielders Support but crucially giving them the exact same instructions as an Inside Forward, therefore they do the same role but they start from closer to the half way line which means they have more ability to defend and keep things tighter at the back! So therefore the same duties can still be employed from less advanced positions on the pitch, you just have to add them in personally, and as a rule of thumb, I add hardly any personal instructions on fluid systems but as this system is highly structured, I can structure instructions as I feel I need to so that we can attain the objective of shutting the opposition down and locking down the game, holding on to those vital close wins which could make all the difference at the end of a season!

WMS_zpsgrfnlube.png

I also change the wing back attack for Full Backs Automatic again to add even more defensive stability but crucially I give them the same PI's as the wingbacks so exactly the same thing as before, by doing this I made the defence even more solid.

FB1_zps5xoruijv.png

The only other change I made was to sacrifice the regista, because I don't want him roaming when I am trying to protect a lead and exchanged him for a Deep Lying Playmaker support, which is the less aggressive more boring version of the regista anyway. He sends you to sleep, whereas the Regista keeps you on edge, but we want the opposition to fall asleep and wake up when the game is over, so the boring DLP it is then...

Team Instructions

TI_zpshmqkrfku.png

Tempo: Very Low - That's Right, we slow it down, send them to sleep....

Take a Breather Yes we want stop the play, and rest, nice and relaxed, take our time!

Play Even Safer We want to play as safe as possible, Safe is Sound and the opposition fall Sound Asleep!

Time-wasting Whenever Possible That's the whole point, we want to waste our time and run down the clock!

Width Narrow Yes, Tighten Up, Close in, Get Close together, Keep it compact in the middle, Give them no space where it counts!

Defence line Slightly Deeper That is why we sacrifice the Regista for a DLP, we want to hold the line, tell the players to defend closer to the goal!

OFFSIDE TRAP = NO

Closing Down Lower We want to rest, we are not going to expose ourselves by chasing the ball, we instead send a signal out to the opposition to come and Break us Down, Find a way through us and as we have made them very sleepy, they are unlikely to be able to do this...

Use Tighter Marking Yes, we want to mark them as tight as possible so we can win the ball back more easily and put them to sleep again should they by the offchance have managed to wake up at some point and gain the ball.

Stay of Feet We don't want to be giving away the ball by fouling, we want to remain on our feet and not risk any last minute penalties....

Play out of Defence We still want to pass the ball around very slowly, this is good for ensuring we retain our high possession rates and also we dont want to be hoofing the ball up to an opposition player and giving them a chance to get back into the game.

Very Short passing That's Right, Nice and Short, so Short that there is no chance of the opposition getting the ball back off us.

Retain Possession Well we don't want to lose possession, Do We?

Be More Discipline Yes we are Highly Structured and we must be disciplined, now is not the time for Fancy Andys, we want to be Professional and Disciplined.

Work Ball into Box Absolutely we want to keep working the way up the field, we want to make sure that we get there as slowly as possible and when do get to the corner flag we want to stay there and frustrate the hell out of the opposition.

Dribble Less Yes now is the time to concentrate on passing the ball around the park, not making runs and losing the ball needlessly.

Stick to Positions Finally we want to ensure that we stick to our positions rigorously and ensure that there is no chance for the opposition to expose us in the final stages of the game. We do not want a player roaming in the last minutes and losing the lead because the player who was supposed to be covering for him was too tired to fill the space left by the roaming player.

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Looking good mate - will give it a go over the coming days.

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Looking good mate - will give it a go over the coming days.

I have tested this and its great, they just pass it very short to each other and you can hear cheering from the crowd as the team sees out the game much to the frustration of the opposition and their supporters! Try it out and let me know how you do with it. :thup:

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I'm loving your original tactic and all I did as said before was change the GK D to a SK S which made a massive difference coping with balls over the top. Will look to adopt the above now as there are games you want to see out. Did ok by just swapping the WB A to WB S but could do with a bit more security.

What I love about it is that is not a win every game tactic but gives you a chance, plays some great football and yet isn't over complicated with 10000s of player instructions which means different players can slot into the roles quite easily. Dmitri Payet is storming it for me with 16 goals in 15 games as an IF. The only slight grumble is that the strikers aren't over prolific by meaning it's the IF's that get the goals generally but if you change the role it affects the attacking intent of the tactic.

Am looking at a few new set pieces from a gentleman called Keysi Rensie to see if I can get a few more goals from corners and tighten up on throw in's as I notice sometimes a throw in to a defender will put me in trouble.

Must say though great work as it has increased my enjoyment ten fold. Thank you for sharing it.

Just hope the next patch doesn't affect it in any way.

PS... Re the above defensive tactic you have tempo down as "very low" in the written instructions but on the screenshot it is down as "normal"?

*****Sorry my mistake, on contain the tempo is normal, I changed tempo before philosophy from control, if you play lowest tempo on control it states low.

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I'm loving your original tactic and all I did as said before was change the GK D to a SK S which made a massive difference coping with balls over the top. Will look to adopt the above now as there are games you want to see out. Did ok by just swapping the WB A to WB S but could do with a bit more security.

What I love about it is that is not a win every game tactic but gives you a chance, plays some great football and yet isn't over complicated with 10000s of player instructions which means different players can slot into the roles quite easily. Dmitri Payet is storming it for me with 16 goals in 15 games as an IF. The only slight grumble is that the strikers aren't over prolific by meaning it's the IF's that get the goals generally but if you change the role it affects the attacking intent of the tactic.

Am looking at a few new set pieces from a gentleman called Keysi Rensie to see if I can get a few more goals from corners and tighten up on throw in's as I notice sometimes a throw in to a defender will put me in trouble.

Must say though great work as it has increased my enjoyment ten fold. Thank you for sharing it.

Just hope the next patch doesn't affect it in any way.

The Sweeper Keeper Support does make a great difference when balls come over the top. When you do switch to the above do not be surprised if your team actually scores another goal, what happens is the opposition get completely caught out by your sudden change in style and they are never expecting it! It is to be used ONLY to see out the game so final 5-10 mins of normal time, except in big European away matches when it could be used earlier from the 60th minute. But you really want to try to use it as late as possible in a game and only when your trying to hold on to a lead. do not switch if you have a 2 goal cushion because you do not need to change anything....

The tactic is not a win every game tactic and no tactic is, even managers like pep guardiola do not win every game! It plays exciting football. You should not use lots of personal instructions, use them sparingly and certainly not in fluid systems.... Brian Clough always said that football is a simple game and people over complicate it, a player wants the freedom to express themselves, they don't like being told what to do, no one does, but they will appreciate when you want to see out a game, that they need follow instruction in those circumstances.

If the IF's are getting the majority of goals that means the tactic is working as it should do, i want the F9 to drop into midfield and the opposition CD's to follow him, leaving the IF's and attacking midfielders free to get clear cut chances on goal. That said, when i did the stoke save, Anthony Martial was the F9 and he scored most of the goals so i suppose it does depend on who is in the F9 role!

I don't think that the next patch will make any difference, it will still perform in exactly the same way... :thup:

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perfect right in time for my away leg against PSG in the champions league, thanks fenech :cool:

You should win that game easily because David Luiz will wander into midfield and your IF's will have a field day! :lol:

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I'm loving your original tactic and all I did as said before was change the GK D to a SK S which made a massive difference coping with balls over the top. Will look to adopt the above now as there are games you want to see out. Did ok by just swapping the WB A to WB S but could do with a bit more security.

What I love about it is that is not a win every game tactic but gives you a chance, plays some great football and yet isn't over complicated with 10000s of player instructions which means different players can slot into the roles quite easily. Dmitri Payet is storming it for me with 16 goals in 15 games as an IF. The only slight grumble is that the strikers aren't over prolific by meaning it's the IF's that get the goals generally but if you change the role it affects the attacking intent of the tactic.

Am looking at a few new set pieces from a gentleman called Keysi Rensie to see if I can get a few more goals from corners and tighten up on throw in's as I notice sometimes a throw in to a defender will put me in trouble.

Must say though great work as it has increased my enjoyment ten fold. Thank you for sharing it.

Just hope the next patch doesn't affect it in any way.

PS... Re the above defensive tactic you have tempo down as "very low" in the written instructions but on the screenshot it is down as "normal"?

*****Sorry my mistake, on contain the tempo is normal, I changed tempo before philosophy from control, if you play lowest tempo on control it states low.

I set those Set Pieces up as well mate :)

I have definitely stopped conceding as much from SPs though so would recommend. :thup:

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I set those Set Pieces up as well mate :)

I have definitely stopped conceding as much from SPs though so would recommend. :thup:

Which ones do you use though as there are so many options???!!!!

BTW Fenech, Have you added any PI's to your keeper in the defensive tactic because a SK S has more risky passes by default which is going against the grain for seeing a game out?

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Which ones do you use though as there are so many options???!!!!

BTW Fenech, Have you added any PI's to your keeper in the defensive tactic because a SK S has more risky passes by default which is going against the grain for seeing a game out?

Yes i have, Distribute to centre backs and Roll it Out.... I still want him to intercept any balls coming over the top....

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Which ones do you use though as there are so many options???!!!!

I think I went with all 3 of the corner (DEF & ATT) options, plus the free kick ones as well ... just for the variation :)

Throw ins - just didnt add the long throw option - just "quick" and "short"

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You should win that game easily because David Luiz will wander into midfield and your IF's will have a field day! :lol:

I lol'ed

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Fenech - this feels like a thread that's better suited to the download section, but to move it there would need you to upload the tactics to share. I don't feel it really generates tactical discussion as much as other threads in this section - the questions you are being asked are very much the same as we see in the downloads section.

Would you be prepared to upload the tactics and for it to be moved to the download section?

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Fenech - this feels like a thread that's better suited to the download section, but to move it there would need you to upload the tactics to share. I don't feel it really generates tactical discussion as much as other threads in this section - the questions you are being asked are very much the same as we see in the downloads section.

Would you be prepared to upload the tactics and for it to be moved to the download section?

Hi RT,

I agree.

I have now uploaded the tactics as per your advice. Please go ahead and move it to the download section. :thup:

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Hi RT,

I agree.

I have now uploaded the tactics as per your advice. Please go ahead and move it to the download section. :thup:

Excellent - thanks :) Moving it there now......

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Excellent - thanks :) Moving it there now......

Great! Thanks for moving it.... :)

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Fenech you use frequently the ultimate defence tactic? or only in very rare cases?

Only if Leading by 1 goal with 5 or 10 mins to go

Only if Drawing Away from home with 5 or 10 mins to go

Only if Leading by One goal or Away goal on aggregate in the second leg or away leg of a big European tie with about 15 - 30 mins left in the game

Never in any other circumstance :thup:

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Only if Leading by 1 goal with 5 or 10 mins to go

Only if Drawing Away from home with 5 or 10 mins to go

Only if Leading by One goal or Away goal on aggregate in the second leg or away leg of a big European tie.

Never in any other circumstance :thup:

1 more thing, If I swap the CD and BPD would affect the tactic?

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1 more thing, If I swap the CD and BPD would affect the tactic?

No it wouldn't mate

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You don't use OI?

I have a member of staff who is the best for both Tactical Knowledge and Judging Player Ability and I get him to do it. I set it up in Staff responsibilities first team screen for that member of staff to do the OI and then I don't have to worry about them. :thup:

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I think I went with all 3 of the corner (DEF & ATT) options, plus the free kick ones as well ... just for the variation :)

Throw ins - just didnt add the long throw option - just "quick" and "short"

You can only load one at a time though in a match can't you? By that I mean left untouched the game will only use whichever set piece is loaded.

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You can only load one at a time though in a match can't you? By that I mean left untouched the game will only use whichever set piece is loaded.

If you have any doubts, I would leave the set pieces the way they are, they can't be that bad if the tactic is performing well... But by all means experiment with them and let me know if they help improve it in any way.

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If you have any doubts, I would leave the set pieces the way they are, they can't be that bad if the tactic is performing well... But by all means experiment with them and let me know if they help improve it in any way.
You can only load one at a time though in a match can't you? By that I mean left untouched the game will only use whichever set piece is loaded.

I didn't know that :) ... thought all 3 were loaded and the taker would just make a decision based on the situation .... interesting!

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I didn't know that :) ... though all 3 were loaded and the taker would just make a decision based on the situation .... interesting!

Are you saying that if you have 5 saved corner / free kick routines, that regardless of which one is displayed on the set piece instruction, the players will chose any of the 4/5 routines you have saved depending on the match situation?

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Are you saying that if you have 5 saved corner / free kick routines, that regardless of which one is displayed on the set piece instruction, the players will chose any of the 4/5 routines you have saved depending on the match situation?

You can only have 3 at a time in training for each set piece type ... I assumed all could be used in a match?

I'm probably wrong though :)

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Does set piece creator work? whenever i set it up it they don`t do what i`ve told them to do like play it short or close down corner kicker. i only did one routine as well.

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Does set piece creator work? whenever i set it up it they don`t do what i`ve told them to do like play it short or close down corner kicker. i only did one routine as well.

Sure that the oppo would know what to do if you only have one the option to play one corner routine.

Alternatively if you don't have any routine then is this when your players just try whatever they think will work?

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Sure that the oppo would know what to do if you only have one the option to play one corner routine.

Alternatively if you don't have any routine then is this when your players just try whatever they think will work?

If you don't have any routine, the game will just use the default routines already set up with every tactic.

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Sure that the oppo would know what to do if you only have one the option to play one corner routine.

Alternatively if you don't have any routine then is this when your players just try whatever they think will work?

i set up the routine for corners, putting players where i want them. offering short option for attack and close down for def but then when i get the corner none of them are where ive put them. same with throwings. i put it to throw short but first thing they do is throw it long. in fact ive never seen them throw it short.

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