Emulating Diego Simeone's Atletico Madrid

[Oakland Stomper]

What I created was this:

GK/D

DR/FB/A

CD/D

CD/D

DL/FB/A

MR/W/A

MCR/AP/S

MCL/DLP/D

ML/W/A

STR/TREQ/A

STL/CF/S

mentality: defensive or counter (you can chose which one you like, I had great results with both but tend to stick with counter)

TI: pass to space,higher tempo,close down more,prevent gk distribution

You can also switch DLP to CM, or you can switch striker roles maybe with DLF instead of Treq. Depends what kind of players you have.

Sometimes I had problems against good teams where they would start to dominate in my half way too much because of my deep defenive line so than I had to switch to more attacking 4-2-3-1 but in majority of games, this system worked perfect.

I've played this with Real Madrid and really dominated the league. Lost in CL final though.

I'm sure that this has worked well, but I have to ask, why play on the counter with Real? It would seem ill suited to a team with so much talent and such a high reputation.

[Oakland Stomper]

In my somewhat limited viewing of Atletico this year, I think that they've further evolved away from being primarily a counter attacking team. They've also used the 4-1-4-1 very, very often. Actually I think that there can be a fairly in-depth discussion as to whether this is a 4-1-2-2-1/4-3-3 or a 4-1-4-1/4-5-1.

When you look at the video clips early in the thread, they seem, in my view to be playing with an attacking tactic that uses "drop much deeper" and "play narrower" TI's. Achieving the level of closing down that is visible is very difficult with the counter mentality in FM.

Another key aspect of Simeone's tactics is their highly structured approach. The roles are very distinct and remain the same no matter who is in the line-up. Viewed within the FM team mentality, they do tend to open up quite a bit in attack. Its actually this rapid opening of the playing area when moving from defending to attacking Simeone's team has mastered.

[luka_zg]

I'm sure that this has worked well, but I have to ask, why play on the counter with Real? It would seem ill suited to a team with so much talent and such a high reputation.

well, the philosophy they demand is "play attacking football"..and the bar is at 100%. So the team produces attacking football with defensive/counter mentality. Thats the thing with mentalities in this game. They are not what the game says they are.

[WayneRomney]

well, the philosophy they demand is "play attacking football"..and the bar is at 100%. So the team produces attacking football with defensive/counter mentality. Thats the thing with mentalities in this game. They are not what the game says they are.

Agreed. They are ripe for a revamp. They could be named "Transitions" or something.

[Cyderman]

http://twentyminutereads.com/2016/02/04/secrets-of-the-italian-4-4-2/ - interesting article comparing Simeone and Ranieri's Italian 442.

[johnnyyakuza78]

So what the conclusion as to how Madrid are playing these days.

This article : http://outsideoftheboot.com/2016/02/02/tactical-analysis-barcelona-2-1-atletico-madrid-red-cards-ruin-epic-tactical-battle/

and others suggest that they adapt their style of play to opponents. In the above match they pressed high up the pitch in Barcas half AND sat back behind the ball when it moved to their half. How do we achieve something like this?!

[Ghents]

I'm still toying around with these ideas. Might have an update this weekend. Just trying to consistently score and hold on to those 1-0 2-0 leads. My biggest issue by far is after around the 70 minute mark I end up conceding.

Right now I'm a straight 442 with a DF-D/DLF-S pairing, WM-A/BBM/CM-D/WP-A then FB-A/CD/CD/FB-A. I have the TIs the same as the OPs, but I added run at defense. I'm debating if I should swap the WP-A to just be another WM-A IF type and shift the BBM to a DLP-S/D. Since I'm dumping to the flanks anyway to work the WM/FB overlaps, should I just have a centralized playmaker to run things through? Maybe an AP-S?

[Ghents]

This is what I'm currently working with that has done well so far. It's struggled against a 4231, but it was Arsenal so I'm not sure if it was just I was really overmatched or what. It eviscerated Leicester's 442, though. The same TI as the OP and I have my wide midfielders swap positions

I'm going to play through to the winter window and see how it goes.

[begoodpam]

This is what I'm currently working with that has done well so far. It's struggled against a 4231, but it was Arsenal so I'm not sure if it was just I was really overmatched or what. It eviscerated Leicester's 442, though. The same TI as the OP and I have my wide midfielders swap positions

I'm going to play through to the winter window and see how it goes.

Looks good, let in go.

[Ghents]

Here's the tactic if anyone wants to play around with it.

As mentioned, I got killed by Arsenal and Everton, both which ran 4231. Might have to switch the BBM to another CM-D or something against a 4231 and drop the line deeper, but other than that I'm very happy with it.

[drigaco]

Here's the tactic if anyone wants to play around with it.

As mentioned, I got killed by Arsenal and Everton, both which ran 4231. Might have to switch the BBM to another CM-D or something against a 4231 and drop the line deeper, but other than that I'm very happy with it.

Did you work on set pieces too? considering set pieces are very important on the scoring part of simeone idea

[Ghents]

Not yet, but I was getting killed by the AMC/ST partnership more than set pieces.

I'm still playing with corner routines.

[shaunwwfc]

Will give that a go with Wolves in the Championship Ghents. I will most likely drop a centre forward (possibly the DF) into the DM position when facing sides who play a 4-2-3-1, which as you mentioned, will cause obvious problems.

Keep us updated on what you come across/changes. I will keep you informed in this thread what progress I make. It will be interesting how it pans out as a Championship side with high expectations.

[iamneallyons]

Any more on this?

[BAD-RELIGION]

My struggle with Atlético is to put Griezmann and Koke playing so good like they play in real life. I have almost a season done and Koke have 1 assist (LOL) and Griezmann have "only" 7 goals, 5 assists and 7.14... I have tried him in all the positions he can play...

[xantheose]

I am trying to emulate Ranieri's 4-4-2 and my question is if there's any significant difference between Leicester and Atletico style of play and player roles, especially the strikers movement/roles. I've read the article above which shows many similarities between these two formations but there must be some adjustments since Leicester's squad is not as good as Atletico's.

I didn't watch Leicester much but only when they played against Spurs in the FA Cup/league and they were really defensive and disciplined, which is not their usual play.

[Jean0987654321]

I am trying to emulate Ranieri's 4-4-2 and my question is if there's any significant difference between Leicester and Atletico style of play and player roles, especially the strikers movement/roles. I've read the article above which shows many similarities between these two formations but there must be some adjustments since Leicester's squad is not as good as Atletico's.

I didn't watch Leicester much but only when they played against Spurs in the FA Cup/league and they were really defensive and disciplined, which is not their usual play.

Well, in Ranieri's Leiscter side, the playmakers are Kante (DLP (d)) and Drinkwater (DLP (s) instead of Koke and Oliver/Carrasso. So, I'm thinking two WM for Ranieri. Albrighton would be on support and Mahrez on attack. I say this because I take a look at whoscored and typically the ball is mostly on the feet of these two.

I would also say that Drinkwater's PIs should be "More Risky Passes" as between the two, he attempts the most long balls

[iamneallyons]

I am trying to emulate Ranieri's 4-4-2 and my question is if there's any significant difference between Leicester and Atletico style of play and player roles, especially the strikers movement/roles. I've read the article above which shows many similarities between these two formations but there must be some adjustments since Leicester's squad is not as good as Atletico's.

I didn't watch Leicester much but only when they played against Spurs in the FA Cup/league and they were really defensive and disciplined, which is not their usual play.

are you mad? thats exactly how they play! very very very disciplined/robust/defensive and sit in two solid narrow blocks waiting to burst into counter.

[iamneallyons]

Well, in Ranieri's Leiscter side, the playmakers are Kante (DLP (d)) and Drinkwater (DLP (s) instead of Koke and Oliver/Carrasso. So, I'm thinking two WM for Ranieri. Albrighton would be on support and Mahrez on attack. I say this because I take a look at whoscored and typically the ball is mostly on the feet of these two.

I would also say that Drinkwater's PIs should be "More Risky Passes" as between the two, he attempts the most long balls[/quote

Mahrez is the playmaker

[Jean0987654321]

Well, in Ranieri's Leiscter side, the playmakers are Kante (DLP (d)) and Drinkwater (DLP (s) instead of Koke and Oliver/Carrasso. So, I'm thinking two WM for Ranieri. Albrighton would be on support and Mahrez on attack. I say this because I take a look at whoscored and typically the ball is mostly on the feet of these two.

I would also say that Drinkwater's PIs should be "More Risky Passes" as between the two, he attempts the most long balls

Mahrez is the playmaker

But he does not have most of the ball??

[Ghents]

I've thought about going with a DLP-D/DLP-S midfield with WM-A's wide, but I'm a little concerned there wouldn't be enough coverage from the midfield when my fullbacks push up?

Does a DLP-D cover as much as a CM-D? And wouldn't two DLP in the same strata be kind of wasteful/redundant?

EDIT: Also, as far as the tactic I posted, I've since flipped the CM-D/BBM so the CM-D covers the FB-A side and added Mark Tighter, Push Up Slightly and swapped to Fluid.

[xantheose]

are you mad? thats exactly how they play! very very very disciplined/robust/defensive and sit in two solid narrow blocks waiting to burst into counter.

No I meant in the first half of the season they sat back and launched explosive counter-attacks. They stayed more disciplined and didn't go forward much against Spurs, their attacking efforts were minimum.

[LSS]

My struggle with Atlético is to put Griezmann and Koke playing so good like they play in real life. I have almost a season done and Koke have 1 assist (LOL) and Griezmann have "only" 7 goals, 5 assists and 7.14... I have tried him in all the positions he can play...

I'm having the same problem. I think I got the best out of Griezmann as a Trequartista (either FC or AMC in 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1), but still not consistently. Especially getting him to score goals in really difficult.

As an inside forward (AMR) in 4-1-2-2-1 he's almost useless. Carrasco in a similar role on the other wing is amazing on the other hand. Is the key difference in pace/acceleration, which IMO are too low for Griezmann?

[Fosse]

Kante usually has a deeper average position but is more likely to dribble and have the ball further up the pitch, sometimes he looks as if he's a bwm-s/cm-d/bbm and Drinkwater is probably a dlp-d/s or a cm-d

[Ghents]

So I ended up trying the DLP-S/DLP-D combo and it worked great two matches, with Shelvey running everything with a 9.0 rating in both matches, without a goal or assist. Then the next two matches (one was a 4321 with a DM the other a 4411) my build up/attack seemed neutered and Shelvey was basically just banging long balls to the flanks without any real target and I drew 0-0 and 1-1, which hilariously were my first draws of the season in December. I was 9-0-6 prior to that.

Anyway, I'm iffy on the double DLP. Maybe I just don't have the right players yet, but I was thinking about running a BBM/DLP-D combo with a WMA and WMS. I was also thinking about, since the majority of my attacks come from wide areas using two CM-D and a WP-A/FB-A and WP-S/WB-A combo, but I'm always hesitant of multiple playmakers in the same strata and I feel even with double holding mids, that would leave me very exposed on the flanks for a counter.

Overall, I feel like a few tweaks this tactic can be really good, especially considering I'm getting this done as Newcastle.

[Corner]

Have you tried a combination of DLP(D) + CM(D)? I find it really solid... they cover the space in front of the defence really well and the DLP(D) will be more willing to advance a little bit up the pitch with a CM(D) beside him (in the system I use anyway).

[Ghents]

I have not, but right now I'm toying with a DLP-D + Anchorman in the DM strata with a DLF-S and CF-A pairing and it's working nicely so far.

[beechy85]

I have always used 4-4-2 and have had some success with different TI's modified your tactics a bit for a save I have just started unemployed and got a team in late Jan, currently played 4 W3 D0 L1 F7 A2, I have been going more in depth with scout reports on opposition too and focusing my play on their weakness narrowly lost to Lincoln City 1-0 away not quite sure how but you cant win them all. Hoping to finally get into a game on FM16

[johnnyyakuza78]

I think the problem with having two defend duty central mids in a counter system is that you concede a lot of space in front of your midfield, and a large gap between your central midfield and your attacking. Its very hard to get your wings to fill this space.

With that in mind I think its necessary to have both of your strikers on a support role at the very least. One striker dropping deep via a F9 or DF/D role is also probably a good idea.

[Ghents]

I think the problem with having two defend duty central mids in a counter system is that you concede a lot of space in front of your midfield, and a large gap between your central midfield and your attacking. Its very hard to get your wings to fill this space.

With that in mind I think its necessary to have both of your strikers on a support role at the very least. One striker dropping deep via a F9 or DF/D role is also probably a good idea.

I've had a nice run using a DLP-D/Anchorman with a LWP-A and RWM-A (both set to sit narrow, roam and cut inside) with a FB-A on the anchorman side. I play with defensive mentality and it can crush some teams on the counter thanks to the DLF-S/CF-A partnership putting pressure on their backline. The roughest game I had was a 3-4 loss to Bournemouth because they got a PK and scored on two insane free kicks.

I'm quite liking it right now, especially since I was able to upgrade to a proper Anchorman since Dortmund seemingly transfer listed Sven Bender for 6.25M.

I'll do a little update when I get home from the office.

[Jean0987654321]

Anywho, time to ressurrect this thread again. A bit impossible to try to emulate the pressing that is in the gifs. I didn't even bother. I think it is a bit easier to emulate the defensive shape they took in the Champions League KO match against Barca in 2014.

And so we begin again

Defensive/Fluid

I also decided to emulate the whole package

I emulated the recent 4-3-3 shape and I also emulated the old 4-4-2 shape that Simeone used when Falcao/Garcia and Costa were at the club

TIs

PIs

GK (d): Throw It Long, Distribute Quickly

CD © x2: Close Down Much Less, Tackle Harder

WP (a) x2: Get Further Forward, Swap with MR/ML

SS/AF: Roam From Position

CF/DF(d): Move Into Channels

I dropped the center mids back to the DM strata to maintain some defensive stability and try to allow the funnel press that AM does IRL. Strikers were also asked to man-mark the CMs/DMs. Not ideal but I'm close. Set-pieces I used are in my previous post

[WayneRomney]

Interesting setup Jean0987654321. Like you said, those gifs would be impossible to replicate.

Inspired by Cleons attacking thread I have had some success in getting the desired play from my wide players, and a deep BWM is also showing some interesting pressing patterns, but the problem is always his colleague, the other CM, who can't cover the "maniac" BWM etc.

Have you tried to make similar tactics with attacking mentality?

[Jean0987654321]

Interesting setup Jean0987654321. Like you said, those gifs would be impossible to replicate.

Inspired by Cleons attacking thread I have had some success in getting the desired play from my wide players, and a deep BWM is also showing some interesting pressing patterns, but the problem is always his colleague, the other CM, who can't cover the "maniac" BWM etc.

Have you tried to make similar tactics with attacking mentality?

I used two BWMs here. One on defend and the other on support. I'm already pressing so I guess I don't have the same issues you do

In the beta version, but I kinda settle on Defensive because it's more of a narrow setup compared to Attacking

[drigaco]

Anywho, time to ressurrect this thread again. A bit impossible to try to emulate the pressing that is in the gifs. I didn't even bother. I think it is a bit easier to emulate the defensive shape they took in the Champions League KO match against Barca in 2014.

And so we begin again

Defensive/Fluid

I also decided to emulate the whole package

I emulated the recent 4-3-3 shape and I also emulated the old 4-4-2 shape that Simeone used when Falcao/Garcia and Costa were at the club

TIs

PIs

GK (d): Throw It Long, Distribute Quickly

CD ©: Close Down Much Less, Tackle Harder

WP (a): Get Further Forward

SS/AF: Roam From Position

CF/DF(d): Move Into Channels

I dropped the center mids back to the DM strata to maintain some defensive stability and try to allow the funnel press that AM does IRL. Strikers were also asked to man-mark the CMs/DMs. Not ideal but I'm close. Set-pieces I used are in my previous post

So you're considering they played two different 4-4-2. Can you explain this please? I think they always played the same 4-4-2 with griezman or arda or diego or villa behind the other striker ( Costa,falcao,mandzukic,etc).

[Jean0987654321]

So you're considering they played two different 4-4-2. Can you explain this please? I think they always played the same 4-4-2 with griezman or arda or diego or villa behind the other striker ( Costa,falcao,mandzukic,etc).

Not really. Falcao was the complete forward that had pace and power and Costa was an AF that ran behind the defense to hunt down down a through ball.

Mandzurkic/Jackson were DF (d) because I recall that both men tended to hassle the back line a lot. Geeizzmann is a false 10 typically linking up with Mandzurkic/Jackson. He was a winger but was retrained to replace Costa but he plays nothing like him....

[drigaco]

Not really. Falcao was the complete forward that had pace and power and Costa was an AF that ran behind the defense to hunt down down a through ball.

Mandzurkic/Jackson were DF (d) because I recall that both men tended to hassle the back line a lot. Geeizzmann is a false 10 typically linking up with Mandzurkic/Jackson. He was a winger but was retrained to replace Costa but he plays nothing like him....

Yes you're right,in the 2012/2013 season they played costa/falcao and i forgot that. So those tactics emulate atleti pre-griezman?

[Jean0987654321]

Yes you're right,in the 2012/2013 season they played costa/falcao and i forgot that. So those tactics emulate atleti pre-griezman?

The 442 shape, yes

[Ghents]

Jean I assume you alternate between those 3 depending on situation?

[Jean0987654321]

Jean I assume you alternate between those 3 depending on situation?

More or less. Depends if I got players out hurt

[HTC]

My god, what a fantastic defending game for one more time from Simeone's Atletico.

Wish i could emulate something like this. Beeing a rock behind, and winning games with lethal touch.

[Guest]

My god, what a fantastic defending game for one more time from Simeone's Atletico.

Wish i could emulate something like this. Beeing a rock behind, and winning games with lethal touch.

It's possible, just think about all the moans on here about players dominating games and losing to the opposition after conceding to their one good chance. We can do that to them too.

[HTC]

Well Real didnt dominate so much, they had 15 shots 3 on target.

9 shots for Atletico 5 on target.

They did dominate possesion though but who cares with those stats and result?

[Rigga89]

It was Saul's role that interested me most in the Madrid derby. Playing primarily as a wide midfielder on the right, and on a couple of occasions swapping with Koke on the left, he seemed to cover absolutely every blade of grass.

He tracked back exceptionally deep either helping Juanfran double up on Ronaldo or trying to neutralise the threat of Danilo's attacking forays when play was coming down his side. With attacks coming down the opposite flank he tucked in narrow as Atletico so often do and dropped all the way back into his own box when a cross looked as though it would come in.

As Atletico full backs or Koke attacked wide and whipped crosses in he ventured forwards early and looked to supplement the strikers in the box, presumably hoping to take advantage of his aerial ability.

How best can you replicate both his attacking and defensive contributions in game? It appears to me that the Box-to-Box midfielder would seem the most similar role, only that isn't available in the MR/ML position. Can player instructions, and perhaps PPMs if required, be used to make a Wide Midfielder/Winger/Defensive Winger play in the same way?

Getting the tracking back from that position shouldn't be too difficult but getting him to be in the box early as a target for crosses might be a bit harder. Ideally I want to avoid giving him the PPM 'Gets Into Opposition Area' because of how it would hinder him covering other more defensive positions on the pitch when rotation is needed.

I suppose the other option would be to play with midfield four that includes ML-CM-CM-CM, making the right-most CM the B2B role I mentioned earlier.

Once the new update is released I'm going to be starting an Atletico save and I'll be looking at getting the most out of that wide right position but for now it would be interesting to get your opinions!

[Rigga89]

So after quite a lot of experimentation and tweaking, here is the tactic that I'm currently using:

I've already been ravaged by injuries in the first couple of games this season so the side is slightly rotated. The long term plan will be for Kranevitter to fill the BWM spot whilst Saul/Carrasco rotate at MR depending on the strength of opposition and Oliver will be cover for Koke on the left.

Our first big test came in the third game of the season where we played Barcelona at home. Unfortunately Gimenez was injured on international duty so I brought Savic in for his first game. He got himself sent off after 23 minutes for a needless violent tackle on the half way line so I had to sacrifice Martinez to replace him. Up to this point we had been looking very threatening, however Barcelona went on to edge a 1-0 lead with a Messi header that I felt Oblak should have got a stronger hand on. Still, considering we were playing Barcelona with 10 men for the majority of the game I think the defensive merits of the tactic stand up.

I'm not yet convinced about the striker role. I want quick breaks that provide runs in behind when we're in possession and I want solid defensive work rate out of possession. The defensive forward and false 9 don't seem to get on the shoulder of the last defender enough even with my preferred striker Vietto's PPM to beat the offside trap so I think it will have to remain either an AF or CF role.

The PIs i've used largely look to balance out the very fluid and high pressing instructions. I've looked to control some of the passing freedom so that those who can't fire long balls don't try and I've asked CBs to close down less because they were sacrificing their shape too much rather than becoming a compact unit that simply crowds out the space.

I'm pretty pleased with how this plays. If anything I'm slightly surprised that I'm getting possession figures hovering around 50%. I actually had more possession than Barca at 52-48 despite the 10 men, however playing a less aggressive press to concede more possession didn't really work for me in my earlier tests.

I think I have to accept the limitations of the tactics to recreate the exact roles used by Simeone. There's only so much tweaking that can be done and some of Saul's movement seems impossible to replicate. So too does the exceptionally deep pressing of the forwards only to quickly on the shoulder of the defenders. Man marking can be used to drop forwards back against the opposition midfield, though this leads to lots of shots from distance because we're simply not advancing quickly enough to break beyond their defence.

I'm just messing around really until the winter update is released when I will start a proper save up with the latest squads but any discussion is welcome!

[Ghents]

Nice ideas. I'm trying to hammer some out until the winter update so I can re-start my Bilbao save.

I have a similar setup to you currently, but I'm flat 442 with a DF-S or D/DLF-A pairing depending on formation. If they have a DM I swap it to DF-D. In the midfield I have WP-A / BWM-D / CM-A / WM-S and have the wide players swap positions. It's working out pretty well so far. Dropping the BWM-D to the DM strata might be something I play with. I'll upload my tactic tonight since I'll probably play while I'm watching RAW.

Do you notice any issues with two playmakers in the same strata? I guess one is attack duty and the other is support. I've thought about changing the WM-S to a WP-S.

[Rigga89]

I initially started with a flat midfield 4 and later dropped the BWM back to DM because opposition AMs and DLFs were having a field day in the gap. At this point I had tried using a slightly deeper defensive line as well hoping it would draw the whole defensive structure back but instead it just opened up the space. Mandzukic exploited that space excellently in an annoying loss against Juventus pre-season.

I like the BWM there apart from his tendency to drop back into DL if Luis is caught up field. I'd rather he hold his central position and leave the space on the wing, or for Koke to cover there. I don't think I can do anything to change that without sacrificing the Very Fluid mentality that is otherwise working well for me.

I haven't noticed any issues between the AP and WP. The AP typically dictates play from a little deeper and will have the most passes in the side whilst the WP advances further forward and collects the ball in a more advanced position. Koke playing WP will regularly clear 10 key passes in a game and is easily our most creative presence, though it's Griezmann leading the way with assists.

I really want to find a way to unlock Griezmann's scoring potential. I think I'm going to have to try and remove the shoots from distance PPM and then train him to get into opposition area or to attempt to beat the offside trap to push him up.

I'm currently trying my striker as a Poacher and this seems to increase our conversation rate quite considerably at a small expense of his defensive work, though not as significantly as I expected. On the topic of strikers, Martinez has proved himself to be a truly dreadful finisher so far. He came into the side when Vietto was injured and squandered chance after chance. Vietto has since returned to already take top goalscorer in the side.

[Ghents]

Here's what I'm working with. Moving the BWM-D to the DM strata seemed to open up my central winger more, too. https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3wxqsi56zqevpz/defend_5AA83BA7-16BF-4223-8FD0-777ADBD99A5B.fmf?dl=0

Gave your setup a try Rigga89 and absolutely battered Las Palmas with my Bilbao squad. Only ended 2-0 but we missed a pen and straight dominated. The AP-S in the midfield was a big key. I like it.

[Dickie Greenleaf]

going to be revisiting this

[poobington]

nice look forward to it. Haven't been able to quite quite as solid defensively, always seem to concede a late goal

[Dickie Greenleaf]

I don't think this is possible