4-3-3 Bayern Style - High Possession & Pressing

[burnum]

Have you got a link for the MagicNut corner setup?

Sorry, I don't. Just imported it from some other tactic I found somewhere. But it's not that awesome anyway (I'm usually around middle of the pack in 'Goals from corners'), I was already thinking about changing the attacking corner routine. If anyone has a good setup for attacking corners, please let me know...

[Stretcheddie]

Used the three New tactics in my Reading save. I was struggling for form and with injuries, about 5 Key players out, totally transformed my run of bad luck into beating Juve and Wolfsburg in the Champions league and consolidating 4th in the premier league 27 games into the season (2019/2020). I then adapted the defensive one into a slightly quicker tempo counter attacking system and changed the attack one into a 4-2-3-1 assymetrical to better suit my players. I also binned off the base one and created a 4-4-2, nothing against the tactic which had performed beautifully but after Zach Clough came back from a 6 month broken leg I had 3 superb strikers that I wanted getting more game time. Back to the point though, these tactics work beautifully. Thank you.

[burnum]

Used the three New tactics in my Reading save. I was struggling for form and with injuries, about 5 Key players out, totally transformed my run of bad luck into beating Juve and Wolfsburg in the Champions league and consolidating 4th in the premier league 27 games into the season (2019/2020). I then adapted the defensive one into a slightly quicker tempo counter attacking system and changed the attack one into a 4-2-3-1 assymetrical to better suit my players. I also binned off the base one and created a 4-4-2, nothing against the tactic which had performed beautifully but after Zach Clough came back from a 6 month broken leg I had 3 superb strikers that I wanted getting more game time. Back to the point though, these tactics work beautifully. Thank you.

That's exactly what this was supposed to be - a good tactic that you can use as your base and adapt to the specific requirements of your team/league.

When I played with Inverness I didn't have any centre-backs with decent passing/technical skills, so I changed the BPD role and played with two CD(d). I also didn't have any 'complete' forwards, so I changed the role based on who was playing - AF(a) for my slow/big striker, DLF(s) for my speedy/technical striker.

This is not 2001 anymore, where we can just plug in the Diablo tactic and beat all the greats with a mediocre team. In this year's version you have to be able to adapt to your team's strengths & weaknesses (unless you are one of a handful teams in the world that have the money to just buy whatever you need for your tactic).

[Stretcheddie]

Mission Accomplished Sir, Thank you.

[Majick]

Many thanks for this tactic. I started using it about 10 games into my third season with Spurs. After we dropped out of the CL spaces in the last game of season 2 following a poor run-in, our start to the next season was equally poor with 5 points from 7 games. Once I adopted this tactic (I've only used the Base), I took 66 points from the next 31 games (20-6-3 record) plus winning the League and FA Cups and Europa League as well.

I'm especially impressed with the number of assists coming from the full backs - something like 70 in total, plus a few goals, across the course of the time using it. I'm looking forward to seeing how it functions with a full pre-season and settled squad!

[burnum]

Update:

I've been working on an attacking tactic for those instances where you need a goal in the last 20 minutes. The previous version hasn't been very effective, I think this new version works a lot better.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/n4pfs4v6f6x7609/4-3-3+Attack_263B6A26-38EC-414E-8F03-716EDCF6B675%282%29.fmf

How to use:

- The core of my tactic is still the 4-3-3 Base (found in post #42) - UPDATE: now found in post #131

- When ahead and you want to bring home the result, switch to 4-3-3 Defend (also found in post #131)

- When in need of a goal, switch to the new version of 4-3-3 Attack, which is posted in the link above. You might even want to switch from Control to Attack, based on the situation.

All the instructions from the OP and post #42 still apply. Just include the new version for 4-3-3 Attack instead of the former version. The new one definitely is better.

The results are still awesome for me. Currently I'm in a save in Scotland with Inverness, challenging Celtic for the SPL title (currently 2 pts behind).

[burnum]

After coming in 2nd in the first 2 seasons in Scotland with Inverness I just finished my 3rd season and the results are impressive. We've won the domestic treble (Scottish PL, FA Cup, League Cup). Celtic had a bad season, only finishing 4th and Rangers were just back up in the Prem. Celtic spend about 6 times as much on wages as we do, even Rangers & Aberdeen spend more on wages than Inverness. I've posted pics of the final league table, the wage spent and my team - you'll see that I have a team full of mediocre stop-gaps. It's not that I managed to somehow get a team full of great talents, so it was mostly the tactics that brought me the success.

Final League Table 2017/18:

Inverness winning the treble:

Wage spending in Scottish Premiership:

My first team squad (basically a bunch of no-names):

[akuji2012]

was using my own tactics and reached 5th in premier league but could not get any further. switched to these tactics and won the premier league and the european champions league.

[burnum]

was using my own tactics and reached 5th in premier league but could not get any further. switched to these tactics and won the premier league and the european champions league.

Great accomplishment. What club did play with?

[eye-switcher]

burnum; i feel that the forward is getting isolated when your team is changing from defend to attack, they often play to the forward but he has to wait for the wingers or turn back to play back to midfield which is slowing down the counter attack. Do you think another forward role may be more successful or is it simply unavoidable?

[burnum]

burnum; i feel that the forward is getting isolated when your team is changing from defend to attack, they often play to the forward but he has to wait for the wingers or turn back to play back to midfield which is slowing down the counter attack. Do you think another forward role may be more successful or is it simply unavoidable?

You can't have a tactic that's great at everything. It's simply not possible to be great at all phases of the game (this isn't CM 01 anymore). That said, I created this tactic with the intention to have a possession based tactic for bigger clubs. The way it developed I found ways to make it effective for smaller clubs as well (can be found in post #42). I found success with big clubs (Bayern, Liverpool, Monaco), small clubs (Brentford, Inverness) and middle-of-the-pack clubs (West Ham) - always using this set of tactics - Base, Attack & Defend. I think this tactic is pretty good for all clubs I've tested with as it is solid at the back and good at creating chances. There are just two things to keep in mind for this set of tactics:

1.) You need a good striker to take advantage of all the chances created. If you can only spend your budget on one position, get a good, well-rounded striker.

2.) This is not a counter-attacking tactic at all. Chances are created by short passing, mostly on the wings with the IFs and WBs as the main creators.

The striker should normally drop back enough to avoid getting isolated. If you still feel he gets too isolated, maybe try using the 4-3-3 Attack version from post #106 as it has a SS just behind the CF. But keep in mind that this was never supposed to be a tactic for counter-attacking football.

[Candre168]

First of all, thanks for the work and sharing.

I used this tactic seeking to deploy a similar style of play half way through a season in which my own created tactic was failing (albeit they were fairly similar). Since using the tactic, I went on an unbelievable win streak that in it's own right would never have been possibly without a SPOT ON tactic. That being said, when second season came around, I noticed we were having huge defensive problems using this tactic (frequently conceding 4-5 goals). We'd create plenty of chances, but we were very vulnerable on the counter-attack/flanks. So what I did was I moved the DLP to DMC position and gave him the duty of Defensive Midfielder - Defend. This made a huge impact, as previously the only players back were the 2 DC's if the WB's were attacking, whereas now there's another DMC.

I also feel it's very important to adjust your ST's role to his best ability.

Love to hear from you burnum on your thoughts, thank you again for the work.

[burnum]

I tried the formation you described when I was creating this tactic but when you drop one of the 3 MC down to DMC, the remaining 2 MC just can't get wide enough in midfield, which in turn means that the opposing defense can double-cover our IFs. That's the reason why I like to keep the 3 MC in midfield. When you actually look at the average positions in-game (in-game > analysis > players) you'll see that the DLP actually plays like a DMC and the AP/BBM still get wide enough to provide support for the IFs. This changes when you drop one of the 3 mids back to DMC.

If/When you struggle at the beginning of the season it could also be because the tactics are no longer fluent (tactics lose fluidity when you sign/buy players as the new players need some time to adapt to your tactics). This also applies to the January transfer window. Whenever you bring in new players you'll see a decline in tactical fluidity.

[feche]

The WB on Support improves a lot the football played, reduced the crosses and adds more stability. It's more nice to watch. The only downside is the DLP, perhaps a CM-D could do the trick of recycle posession and distribute?

And BTW this is a very good tactic, you should post it in FM-Base and gain more recognition.

[burnum]

And BTW this is a very good tactic, you should post it in FM-Base and gain more recognition.

Not really interested in publishing it on FM Base. Too many thugs out there for my taste. Quality beats quantity.

[akuji2012]

playing as blackburn burnum. since post, won world club championship, league again, league cup. fa cup and europe again in one season. only improvement i would make is defending set pieces.

[LuhVF]

I'm on my second season with Leeds United, won the Championship and then the club was bought by some chinese investors who put some money on it.

I bought some good players before trying this tactic and there is two of then who actually don't play well in the tactics roles.

They are Sven Bender as Box to Box Midfielder, and Jamie Vardy as Complete Forward.

Do you think changing their roles to Ball Winning Midfielder and Defensive Forward would do a negative effect on the tactic?

[burnum]

I'm on my second season with Leeds United, won the Championship and then the club was bought by some chinese investors who put some money on it.

I bought some good players before trying this tactic and there is two of then who actually don't play well in the tactics roles.

They are Sven Bender as Box to Box Midfielder, and Jamie Vardy as Complete Forward.

Do you think changing their roles to Ball Winning Midfielder and Defensive Forward would do a negative effect on the tactic?

Personally, I wouldn't change roles to suit a player. If you're in the Premier League and have a Chinese tycoon, you should have more than enough money to bring in the right players to make it work. Just having a quick look at Bender and Vardy, they should be able to play decently in their respective positions. Don't judge them by their positional rating (that circled rating), just judge them by their on-field performance. I once had a striker who was (according to my Assistant Manager) incapable of playing as CF, yet he scored 28 goals in a season.

[LuhVF]

Personally, I wouldn't change roles to suit a player. If you're in the Premier League and have a Chinese tycoon, you should have more than enough money to bring in the right players to make it work. Just having a quick look at Bender and Vardy, they should be able to play decently in their respective positions. Don't judge them by their positional rating (that circled rating), just judge them by their on-field performance. I once had a striker who was (according to my Assistant Manager) incapable of playing as CF, yet he scored 28 goals in a season.

Thx for the answer, burnum.

Actually after I asked both started to play really good. Even Bender is scoring goals. Your tactic is fantastic.

[Balboas]

Burnum..... I've really enjoyed this tactic! You've really struck gold here.....

It bothers me though, that the DLP NEVER gets a high match rating. He's boring as hell!

I understand his importance for the team (short passing / recycling), but so far I've failed in making him more sexy.......

Furthermore, you never get huge wins with this tactic...... Fortunately, you never lose either

[burnum]

Burnum..... I've really enjoyed this tactic! You've really struck gold here.....

It bothers me though, that the DLP NEVER gets a high match rating. He's boring as hell!

I understand his importance for the team (short passing / recycling), but so far I've failed in making him more sexy.......

Furthermore, you never get huge wins with this tactic...... Fortunately, you never lose either

I've just beaten Man Utd 4-1 at Old Trafford with Brentford. Can't ask for anything more...

But I know what you mean. Most games you get close wins, something like 2-1 or 2-0. That's perfectly fine for me. If you play as Barcelona, Real or Bayern you might want to try using the 4-3-3 Attack tactic (post #106) as your starting tactic, that should give you more goals against far inferior opponents.

Personally, I don't care about goal difference, all that matters is winning. A 1-0 win is just as good as a 5-2 for me. But I understand that's just personal preference and others might disagree.

As for that DLP role - yes, in most cases they won't get those great avg ratings but that really depends on your team. I remember when playing as Ajax, I used Richy Bazoer in that role and he had something like a 7.4 avg over the course of a season, so there are some exceptions. If you compare it to real life, I think it's quite realistic. When you look at FC Bayern, nobody is talking about Xabi Alonso or Lahm playing in a similar role and distributing the ball when you have Robben, Douglas Costa, Müller and Lewandowski scoring loads of goals. Almost every team has some sort of 'water-carrier' who doesn't get all the accolades but still is essential for the team's success (think Nicky Butt for the treble-winning Man Utd or Busquets for Barca in the last couple of years). The DLP is basically a defensive midfielder playing in the MC spot. Defensive midfielders usually don't get the recognition they deserve.

On the other side, you can probably get great ratings out of any mediocre wing-back in this tactic...

[CarlosEsDios]

Update:

I've been working on an attacking tactic for those instances where you need a goal in the last 20 minutes. The previous version hasn't been very effective, I think this new version works a lot better.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/n4pfs4v6f6x7609/4-3-3+Attack_263B6A26-38EC-414E-8F03-716EDCF6B675%282%29.fmf

How to use:

- The core of my tactic is still the 4-3-3 Base (found in post #42)

- When ahead and you want to bring home the result, switch to 4-3-3 Defend (also found in post #42)

- When in need of a goal, switch to the new version of 4-3-3 Attack, which is posted in the link above. You might even want to switch from Control to Attack, based on the situation.

All the instructions from the OP and post #42 still apply. Just include the new version for 4-3-3 Attack instead of the former version. The new one definitely is better.

The results are still awesome for me. Currently I'm in a save in Scotland with Inverness, challenging Celtic for the SPL title (currently 2 pts behind).

Thanks for giving us the post number so we know exactly which one to download. Looking for a new ish one at the moment

[burnum]

Just tested the 4-3-3 Attack version in a full game with Bayern and this happened:

[CarlosEsDios]

Lol Burnam I (foolishly) gave your base tactic ago from scratch in a cup game at home. Lost 1-0. Serves me right!!

[burnum]

Just finished my 4th season in my Brentford save, finishing 2nd in the Premier League.

[Marckn]

I'll try 4-3-3 Attack version with real madrid

[malaka85]

Thanks a lot for this tactic. Some great results:

tactics v2

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4250/ck58gvti_png.htm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4250/k2e38joy_png.htm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4250/755m2o3d_png.htm

[akuji2012]

my team as blackburn

GK: regen

DL: Kuryzwa (spelling)

DC: Laporte

DC: Regen

DR: Aurier

DLP: Ruben Neves

BBM: Regen

AMC: Will Hughes

AMR: Lamela

AML: Januzaj (spellinng)

SC: Rhodes

Dont win every game but i win the league and cups if i have a good draw. Play control all the time, switch to defend and attacking last 20 mins if im winning or losing.

about to buy odergaard as he is listed as was lamela daporte and januzaj.

[sparkysrovers]

what are the chances of success with this tactic in the lower leagues? and with a semi pro club? Going to chance it having tried some of the most successful ones reportedly

[burnum]

what are the chances of success with this tactic in the lower leagues? and with a semi pro club? Going to chance it having tried some of the most successful ones reportedly

The lowest I've tested was Brentford (middle-of-the-pack Championship team) and Inverness (bottom-third Scottish PL team). I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work in lower leagues. You might want to change the striker role (described in post #95) as it can be difficult to find a good CF in the lower leagues.

[burnum]

UPDATE:

I just found out that the base-tactic in post #42 is not the one I'm using at the moment. Make sure you have these 3 tactics and follow the instructions from posts #1, #2, #42 and #106. This newer version should give you a more balanced attack over both flanks (most of the attacking moves came from the right side in the old version).

Base tactic:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/men717m12380888/4-4-3+Burnum+v2_F7FF74DA-04B9-471C-8B11-691598230E53.fmf

Attacking version (see post #106):

http://www.mediafire.com/download/n4pfs4v6f6x7609/4-3-3+Attack_263B6A26-38EC-414E-8F03-716EDCF6B675%282%29.fmf

Defending version:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3eb6ewiv2b9jh9a/4-3-3+Defend_636390B7-CF55-4677-84C3-DC168D84E767.fmf

[alang]

just to let you know that your attacking version tactic is very good. I am using it home and away with fulham on my 2nd season and currently fifth on the premier league.

[sparkysrovers]

What pitch size do you use for the tactic? I'm using the maximum and it might be causing me to let in goals

[burnum]

What pitch size do you use for the tactic? I'm using the maximum and it might be causing me to let in goals

Maximum size

[fireonex]

Well, Man, I did 4 seasons on Southampton, Team full of wonderkids, and I was still not able to be champion. I did try many diferrent tactics, but the problem was always the away games.

So decided to create a new Save game on Liverpool, and im going to use your tactics.

Wish me Luck.

Ill give some feedback later

[SUAREZ 7]

Well, Man, I did 4 seasons on Southampton, Team full of wonderkids, and I was still not able to be champion. I did try many diferrent tactics, but the problem was always the away games.

So decided to create a new Save game on Liverpool, and im going to use your tactics.

Wish me Luck.

Ill give some feedback later

hope it goes well keep us updated might try it myself

[fireonex]

First game with your tactic. The Standard one.

Not bad at all :o

35 shots? damn

[sparkysrovers]

Burnum - your tactic is probably the most consistent set of tactics I've used. I missed out on promotion again but our overall gameplay was encouraging! Had a 16 match unbeaten run through the league too, being the highlight of my campaign. This is with a part time semi pro team in the French CFA-C league.

[burnum]

Thanks for the kind replies. Hope it's still going well for you guys...

[sparkysrovers]

Wish I could say the same for this season

[fireonex]

I just started a Save game with Everton.

and...

Not bad at all :)

8 premier league games, 7 wins

and by the way, i have only tested the "standard" version of your tactic. but ill try the defensive one and the offensive one as well

[sparkysrovers]

Sorry, I don't. Just imported it from some other tactic I found somewhere. But it's not that awesome anyway (I'm usually around middle of the pack in 'Goals from corners'), I was already thinking about changing the attacking corner routine. If anyone has a good setup for attacking corners, please let me know...

I havent found the MagicNut corner setup great either, but a friend of mine suggested me to take a look at this: http://strikerless.com/2015/11/15/set-pieces-various-routines-and-their-merits/ . I'm using the following corner routine which is the last routine in that article, and after half time in one match I've already scored from the corner, I cant recall the last time I was able to score using the MagicNut routine.

Give it a go and let me know what you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1z6h4nycfj2u5tz/Mixed_5F00AA99-AB08-4DFC-BF3B-28ABACA4569B.fmf?dl=0

[BrotherZaah]

Hi Burnum,

Let me start by saying thank you for this tactic. To me it seems the most logical I've found.

Like many others I've had trouble in Fm16 making tactics work, I was fine in previous editions but im struggling to get a tactic that performs consistently yours has provided that. However, I'm not happy to simply download a tactics and set it on its way, I would like to ask a few questions to help me understand why this tactic has worked when an almost identical tactic I made (DLP in DM position and complete wing back supports) doesn't.

Can I ask why you keep everything narrow? Would the wing backs not be better going wide when the team is in position to stretch the opposition and provide wide options (especially as the IF's are narrow)?

What is it about your tactic that stops opposition wide players from making the killer crosses that seem to plague everyone (including me) but people in the know on here swear there isnt a problem. As I havnt had that problemwith your tactic even though the WB have an attack duty.

Also, What would you recommend for modifications for an away tactic. I think the defensive tactic you've posted is solid but inviting too much pressure to use for the entire match.

Any help would be appreciated.

[burnum]

Hi Burnum,

Let me start by saying thank you for this tactic. To me it seems the most logical I've found.

Like many others I've had trouble in Fm16 making tactics work, I was fine in previous editions but im struggling to get a tactic that performs consistently yours has provided that. However, I'm not happy to simply download a tactics and set it on its way, I would like to ask a few questions to help me understand why this tactic has worked when an almost identical tactic I made (DLP in DM position and complete wing back supports) doesn't.

Can I ask why you keep everything narrow? Would the wing backs not be better going wide when the team is in position to stretch the opposition and provide wide options (especially as the IF's are narrow)?

What is it about your tactic that stops opposition wide players from making the killer crosses that seem to plague everyone (including me) but people in the know on here swear there isnt a problem. As I havnt had that problemwith your tactic even though the WB have an attack duty.

Also, What would you recommend for modifications for an away tactic. I think the defensive tactic you've posted is solid but inviting too much pressure to use for the entire match.

Any help would be appreciated.

Your last question is easy to answer, so I'll answer it first - if you play with a big club you can basically use the attacking version as a home tactic and the base version as an away tactic.

As for keeping everything narrow, I've done that to prevent giving the opposition too much space. When You play wide, your WB is isolated against the opposing winger or IF. Keeping it all bunched together will provide instant help from your teammates in case you might get beat. When in attack, the WBs still provide good support down the flanks. Another important point is to have the IFs on support duty and not on attack duty, this helps with defending the sidelines as the IFs on support duty will actively help to defend and not just wait for his teammates to win the ball back.

As for the DLP role in the MC position, I've already expained that earlier. When you put the DLP in the DMC strata it will automatically put the remaining 2 MCs closer together. You need the DLP in the middle of the 3 MC positions, so he'll basically play as a DMC but the remaining 2 MCs (AP/BBM) still have enough width to cover the entire midfield and help out against those attacking WBs. If you only play 2 guys in the MC strata they will play too tight in the centre of the pitch.

[Grisales]

I played with what I think was an earlier version of the tactic (default Control rather than Standard).

On that tactic most of my goals were scored from crosses from my full backs. I was also conscious of what I think I have seen mentioned here that my AMR was performing alot better than my AML. Even though I kept the Inside Forward duty I also seemed to perform better with non-inverted wingers. Ie I would get alot of goals from my right footed right winger running on to through balls and hitting it into the far corner.

I am now playing with the latest version posted. I am doing just about OK - but my full backs are far less effective. They get forward, but they don't seem to contribute as much. I also seem to get alot of situations where my inside forwards end up right on the goal line and try to shoot from an impossible angle.

[burnum]

Just won the Premier League with Brentford in the 2019/2020 season. I've used the 4-3-3 Base for all away games and at home against tough opponents and used the 4-3-3 Attack at home against weaker opponents.

[pescefesso]

for me as well. playing with fiorentina. i'm doing incredible well with the base control version. with the new standard not so well.for me there is not doubt that the first version was a lot better.

[loisvale]

Credit where credits due. This set of tactics works very well. Really like how the midfield and inside forwards work in the base. Rmd on one side can be very good as well! The change of roles and duties in the attack and defence versions offer good plan b and c. Messing around with TIs depending on match situation is also interesting. All round very good and works very well and keeps the interest. Nice job and thank you for posting. Deserves more attention.

[arron52]

Is the Base tactic the one linked in the first post ?

[jeromethestone]

First of all thank you burnum for this tactics, I was one toe away to give up on FM16 and turn back on my gameboy colour....

I started a new save with FC Zurich (swiss team) so I dont got any Messi, Ronaldo or Neymar but it still works very well.

The Base tactic is great but in my eyes the Attack tactic works even greater, and the tactic familiarity still aint fluid !!!!!!!!!!

I use the Base tactic with a Raumdeuter on the right wing, when my right winger is right footed and it works very good. I dont know why but my right side (right winger, right defender) mostly gets better ratings then the ones on the left. The next change I do is the striker roles (target man type of striker = advanced striker, false 9 type of striker = deep dying foward (S)) and i'm sure that 'move into channels' is on.

When I use the Attack tactic I dont change nothing but the striker roles!

Since I know that sky aint the limit cause there are footsteps on the moon, there is always something to upgrade.. there are 3 little points I noticed and I need your advise!

- My main striker is struggling to score (5 games, 1 goal in the league) my wingers are the ones who score especially the right winger!

- Against certain formations my defender are struggling to defend, my goalkeeper saves unbelievable things

- We permanently get yellow cards (5 games, 13 yellow cards in the league) what I'm not very happy with it...

And do you use any Team Talks during matches (Encourage, Push Foward, Concentrate)?