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couragewolf101

Youth Intake Frustrations

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Wouldn't it be reasonable if I could get multiple 4-5 star regens every year? Cause I'd love to be producing multiple 185+ players in a single intake. I'm not satisfied with just one, or even two.

What I would like to see is some control over who makes up my intake- none of the rubbish that usually makes up the other 11 players that I release every year. Ideally if i could pick and choose the players that make it in, I wouldn't have any of this problem.

In real life, teams actually produce a lot of quality youngsters in bulk. Barcelona, constantly produces good players. Some of them become great. Ajax fills entire first elevens.

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Wouldn't it be reasonable if I could get multiple 4-5 star regens every year? Cause I'd love to be producing multiple 185+ players in a single intake. I'm not satisfied with just one, or even two.

What I would like to see is some control over who makes up my intake- none of the rubbish that usually makes up the other 11 players that I release every year. Ideally if i could pick and choose the players that make it in, I wouldn't have any of this problem.

In real life, teams actually produce a lot of quality youngsters in bulk. Barcelona, constantly produces good players. Some of them become great. Ajax fills entire first elevens.

You're asking for several players who will become international superstars - every year?

You'll get nowhere asking on here for the intake system to be changed, but have a look at the ingame editor - you can make all your intake world class every year then.

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Doesn't sound reasonable to me no, would you like a big 'I win' button too? lol

Those teams you mention, you have any idea just how many of their youths never make it too compared to the ones that do?

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No it wouldn't be reasonable as others have pointed out.

Big clubs IRL do not churn out world class stars every season.

Aside from that though its worth clarifying a couple of other points:

A) If your team is full of world class players then a 3* player would be world class, in that case its impossible for you to get 5* players.

B) PA stars are simply a judgement by your staff and as such are often wrong and change over the course of a few seasons. Binning players early because they don't have 3*+ PA initially is a massive mistake.

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There is a big difference between a 'world class' player and one capable of playing in a world class team....I have had very few world class over the years but plenty good enough for the first team. You have to ask how many in real life are world class and how many get by because of who they play for and with

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I'm currently Freiburg, and playing a cantera style game. I just wish FM would give the tools that would cater to such a play style.

It does. Bear in mind Cougar's notes on the star system. I've played the same sort of game as Everton on FM15, but by definition it is long term, so you need to spot and develop your players.

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In real life, teams actually produce a lot of quality youngsters in bulk. Barcelona, constantly produces good players. Some of them become great. Ajax fills entire first elevens.

Do they indeed? Randomly picked Barcelona's "B" squad from 08/09. Here's where their players ended up today:

Bayern Munich (Bundesliga)

Celta Vigo x2 (Liga BBVA)

Real Sociedad (Liga BBVA)

Betis Sevilla (Liga BBVA)

Espanyol x2 (Liga BBVA)

Villareal (Liga BBVA)

Olympiacos (1st tier Greece)

Club Brugge (1st tier Belgium)

Moghreb Tetouan (1st tier Morocco)

FC Miyagi Barcelona (J-League?)

Real Oviedo x2 (2nd tier Spain)

Albacete Balompie (2nd tier Spain)

CE Sabadell (2nd tier Spain)

FC Sochaux (2nd tier France)

AS Eupen (2nd tier Belgium)

Dunaújváros PASE (2nd tier Hungary)

Potros de Barinas FC (2nd tier Venezuela)

Pobla de Mafumet CF (3rd tier Spain)

Candas CF (4th tier Spain)

San Fernando CD (4th tier Spain)

Currently unemployed x2

So even with Thiago now constantly being injured for Bayern Munich and a bunch of guys playing for mediocre La Liga teams, the majority of youth players fade into obscurity. That's just the way it is, since there's an awful lot of kids falling through the roster every damn year. Be aware that this is Barcelona "B", where the guys are usually old enough to know whether there's a career waiting for them in professional football or not.

Nah, the regen system is alright. The thing is, there are already around 4-5 regens of 160+ PA every year in major leagues. They're just spread out.

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Wouldn't it be reasonable if I could get multiple 4-5 star regens every year? Cause I'd love to be producing multiple 185+ players in a single intake. I'm not satisfied with just one, or even two.

What I would like to see is some control over who makes up my intake- none of the rubbish that usually makes up the other 11 players that I release every year. Ideally if i could pick and choose the players that make it in, I wouldn't have any of this problem.

In real life, teams actually produce a lot of quality youngsters in bulk. Barcelona, constantly produces good players. Some of them become great. Ajax fills entire first elevens.

185+ is literally only a handful in the whole World level player (probably about ~20 in the gameworld). 4-5 players with 185+ PA each year would (assuming that the average player would retire at around 35) mean that there would be something of the order of 80-100 in the gameworld at any time after 20 years, just from your academy.

Let's say though that there are about 20 players with PA of 185+, and again, your average player retires at 35. That means that there will be roughly one player produced each year in the entire world with that level of potential. Your club will be just one of those clubs that may produce that player. Let's say though that even if you have a 1/20 chance of being the team to produce that player, you'll be seeing one once every 20 seasons, and have a 1/400 chance of producing two such youngsters (I honestly can't think of a case of two players I'd consider to have ended up with PA of 185+ at the same place at the same time).

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Do they indeed? Randomly picked Barcelona's "B" squad from 08/09. Here's where their players ended up today:

[...]

So even with Thiago now constantly being injured for Bayern Munich and a bunch of guys playing for mediocre La Liga teams, the majority of youth players fade into obscurity. That's just the way it is, since there's an awful lot of kids falling through the roster every damn year. Be aware that this is Barcelona "B", where the guys are usually old enough to know whether there's a career waiting for them in professional football or not.

Nah, the regen system is alright. The thing is, there are already around 4-5 regens of 160+ PA every year in major leagues. They're just spread out.

Actually Barça B aren't the best example to support the "regen system is alright" opinion, as their success rate is way higher than anything from FM world.

The top-shelf newgens are simulated in a fair enough way, although the hot prospects are maybe a little too hot from the start (ie. too many Messis, too few Pedros), but FM really struggles to replicate the almost-but-not-quite-good prospects.

Those who IRL end up having respectable careers in second-tier leagues or in the next-highest divisions can usually be found on the Free Agents for a while, until they retire just into their mid-20s, or until their reputation/CA drops enough for them to fit in one of the AI signings windows.

FM fails to address how "valuable" a former Top Club alumnus can be in a lower division, in terms of media return and of quality, be it real or simply perceived.

Most youth intakes in FM produce a handful of lower-leaguers, while the majority of them won't get a contract and will retire shortly after. In real life those "rejects" are instead the backbone of lower leagues squads.

Of course I'm not agreeing with the OP about having first team candidates every year, but they should at least be good enough to "survive" within the gameworld instead of simply being disposable filler that will disappear in a couple of months.

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B) PA stars are simply a judgement by your staff and as such are often wrong and change over the course of a few seasons. Binning players early because they don't have 3*+ PA initially is a massive mistake.

Does it actually happen that someone is 2.5*- PA 17 years old, but becomes 4*+ CA later? It would be cool to see examples.

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I'm currently Freiburg, and playing a cantera style game. I just wish FM would give the tools that would cater to such a play style.

What is 'cantera style'?

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Does it actually happen that someone is 2.5*- PA 17 years old, but becomes 4*+ CA later? It would be cool to see examples.

On fm 15 i had players come through the intake rated as 1 star, And many of them went on to become first team players for me in the premier league. You have to remember that they are compared to what is at your club already, As Newcastle if i scout a Real Madrid left back from their youth team he will show as a good prospect as he is compared to Dummet and Haidara, But if you scout him as Barcelona he will not look as good because he is compared to Jordi Alba

So a player rated as 1 star can become better rated as he improves and also as other players leave the club or increase in age etc! And of course star ratings are just the opinion of your staff not a guarantee

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Actually Barça B aren't the best example to support the "regen system is alright" opinion, as their success rate is way higher than anything from FM world.

The top-shelf newgens are simulated in a fair enough way, although the hot prospects are maybe a little too hot from the start (ie. too many Messis, too few Pedros), but FM really struggles to replicate the almost-but-not-quite-good prospects.

Those who IRL end up having respectable careers in second-tier leagues or in the next-highest divisions can usually be found on the Free Agents for a while, until they retire just into their mid-20s, or until their reputation/CA drops enough for them to fit in one of the AI signings windows.

FM fails to address how "valuable" a former Top Club alumnus can be in a lower division, in terms of media return and of quality, be it real or simply perceived.

Most youth intakes in FM produce a handful of lower-leaguers, while the majority of them won't get a contract and will retire shortly after. In real life those "rejects" are instead the backbone of lower leagues squads.

Of course I'm not agreeing with the OP about having first team candidates every year, but they should at least be good enough to "survive" within the gameworld instead of simply being disposable filler that will disappear in a couple of months.

Isn't that for a large part an issue with the contract/reputation system rather than the regen system though? A lot of these regens are good enough for these second/third division sides, however they do not pick them up as the players refuse to join a lower tier side due to reputation and then they retire. I'd say the issue is that these players would rather retire than join a lower division side. While playing through lower leagues I've seen countless of players during the yearly trial days that had no interest in them at all, yet they refuse to join my side in the third and sometimes even the second German division and then they retire because I was the only one interested.

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Isn't that for a large part an issue with the contract/reputation system rather than the regen system though? A lot of these regens are good enough for these second/third division sides, however they do not pick them up as the players refuse to join a lower tier side due to reputation and then they retire. I'd say the issue is that these players would rather retire than join a lower division side. While playing through lower leagues I've seen countless of players during the yearly trial days that had no interest in them at all, yet they refuse to join my side in the third and sometimes even the second German division and then they retire because I was the only one interested.

It's one of those niggly things about the game over the years. I always wonder what's with these early 20s players who suddenly decide they can do better for themselves in other careers rather than continuing their career and making their living from football.

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Players do stick around longer after they leave a club & former youth players are more willing to drop down a division or two once they've been released.

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Wouldn't it be reasonable if I could get multiple 4-5 star regens every year? Cause I'd love to be producing multiple 185+ players in a single intake. I'm not satisfied with just one, or even two.

What I would like to see is some control over who makes up my intake- none of the rubbish that usually makes up the other 11 players that I release every year. Ideally if i could pick and choose the players that make it in, I wouldn't have any of this problem.

In real life, teams actually produce a lot of quality youngsters in bulk. Barcelona, constantly produces good players. Some of them become great. Ajax fills entire first elevens.

My first thought when I read this was that this just had to be pure irony.

But, this being the internet, I reckoned I had to read through first to find out that I was probably wrong...

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185+ is literally only a handful in the whole World level player (probably about ~20 in the gameworld). 4-5 players with 185+ PA each year would (assuming that the average player would retire at around 35) mean that there would be something of the order of 80-100 in the gameworld at any time after 20 years, just from your academy.

correct, there are 17 185+PA players in the game database, neither of which started at the same club

and 7 of them are under 30

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Had a regen come through on my current save with Coventry, both Norwich, Burnley and Ipswich were offering large amounts of money for this 16 Year Old with 5 star potential. In the end I sold him for over 500k because I needed to strength the team this season rather than wait to see how this player develops, couldn't even add a buy-back clause as all the bid were non-negotiable.

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Players don't have to be 5 stars in your squad to the best player in the world.

I've had a player that was only rated 2.5 stars - but he played blinders every game, he was even World Defender of the Year many years in a row.

There were other players with 3/4/5 star potential, but they did not play at the same match ratings as my 2.5 star defender who went to be the world's greatest defender.

It's not about how many stars a player gets due to their Current and Potential ability.

It's about how they play and how they fit into your system.

For example, once I needed a striker and had no money, so I looked up someone for the role, that was a fast, good at dribbling, good decisions and good finishing.

Finished top goalscorer every year because I built a role and team for him to succeed in.

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I was serious. I was really, really frustrated.

I may have also unintentionally become a parodist. It may be a viable persona from now on.

But now I have the challenge of a 109 PA player, whose attribute distribution and potential attributes via Genie seems to suggest he is not 109 PA at all, and that his true ability is a lot higher. I mean for god sakes he has 16 passing at the tender age of 14, though a consistency of 4.

In any case I can't play them straight away, coz Bundesliga rules and all.

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As stated above, a 180+ PA player is a rare elite talent. If they come anywhere close to reaching that ability, they will be one of the best players in the world. So getting 4 or 5 per youth intake would provide a club full of generational-level talents after a few intakes and a few years of developmental, all purely from your own youth academy. That is like having Ronaldo, Messi, Lewandowski, Robben, Xavi, Neuer , Lahm, Hazard, and Aguero all through the youth academy of one club in the course of two years. Massively unrealistic and unreasonable.

Playing a cantina game, where rely entirely on youth intake, is going to be massively difficult, even with strong facilities. And it should be - few clubs attain a high level of success relying entirely on that.

I used to be guilty of not valuing young players with what I perceived as "low" PA. Anything under 160? Not worth my time. I've learned better. A lot of really solid fully-developed players only have CA in the 130-140 range. They aren't world class superstars, for the most part, but that doesn't mean they are without use for most clubs. A 140 PA can still be developed into a Prem level player with the right attribute distribution.

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I may have also unintentionally become a parodist. It may be a viable persona from now on.

Pure gold, this :thup:

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As stated above, a 180+ PA player is a rare elite talent. If they come anywhere close to reaching that ability, they will be one of the best players in the world. So getting 4 or 5 per youth intake would provide a club full of generational-level talents after a few intakes and a few years of developmental, all purely from your own youth academy. That is like having Ronaldo, Messi, Lewandowski, Robben, Xavi, Neuer , Lahm, Hazard, and Aguero all through the youth academy of one club in the course of two years. Massively unrealistic and unreasonable.

Playing a cantina game, where rely entirely on youth intake, is going to be massively difficult, even with strong facilities. And it should be - few clubs attain a high level of success relying entirely on that.

I used to be guilty of not valuing young players with what I perceived as "low" PA. Anything under 160? Not worth my time. I've learned better. A lot of really solid fully-developed players only have CA in the 130-140 range. They aren't world class superstars, for the most part, but that doesn't mean they are without use for most clubs. A 140 PA can still be developed into a Prem level player with the right attribute distribution.

For the most part, the training system may not be particularly working too well.

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For the most part, the training system may not be particularly working too well.

Depends on what you mean by "not too well". Cleon mentioned in the Tactics and Training section that CA gains have been toned down a bit. So it is less likely that a high PA player will max out their CA at 19 or 20 years old. It still appears that the AI can turn in a high CA player into a great talent.

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Depends on what you mean by "not too well". Cleon mentioned in the Tactics and Training section that CA gains have been toned down a bit. So it is less likely that a high PA player will max out their CA at 19 or 20 years old. It still appears that the AI can turn in a high CA player into a great talent.

More like retraining their positions is going to be trouble this year. You would have to actually play the player in a sub-optimal position.

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Depends on what you mean by "not too well". Cleon mentioned in the Tactics and Training section that CA gains have been toned down a bit. So it is less likely that a high PA player will max out their CA at 19 or 20 years old. It still appears that the AI can turn in a high CA player into a great talent.

I think that's a welcome tweak

previously, it's been FAR too easy to develop youngsters (just shove them in the first team for a season, and watch them become world beaters by 20)

I used my FM15 knowledge (loan a player out anywhere for regular gametime)

and it actually stalled Bentancur a little bit, because the club facilities weren't good enough to progress him (he played 30+ league games that season, so it's not that)

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In real life, teams actually produce a lot of quality youngsters in bulk. Barcelona, constantly produces good players. Some of them become great. Ajax fills entire first elevens.

I don't know which clubs you're managing (can't be bothered to read through all the new replies), but if you seriously believe that to be true, you don't have much of a clue about the real football world. Maybe it is (partially) true for Barcelona, Ajax, and a couple of other clubs, but for everyone else? Come on...

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It seems in Germany it's really hard to pull through many good players in a single intake, because of competition between clubs for hot young talent.

Whereas in Spain, there's barely any competition as clubs recruit locally/regionally- so practically they may all be having 20 in Junior Coaching and extensive youth recruitment. That's why you get lots of quality regens in Spain despite the lower YR. I believe this is hard-coded.

It's kind of stupid when with a further improvement to my youth recruitment- the intakes just got worse. Only two players- one with 180+, and the other around 170. The third is usually 130 or so. Stupid AI deciding who makes up the intake probably dumped some high PA players because FM AI is atrocious.

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TBH it just sounds like you are throwing your toys out of the pram because you aren't getting loads of world class players every intake.

We can't help you with that as what you are asking for is unrealistic.

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I may have also unintentionally become a parodist. It may be a viable persona from now on.

:lol::lol::applause:

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:lol::lol::applause:

It's a shame i can't do the whole blame it on your tactics because i did manage to create a working possession tactic that made use of the legend that is Nils Petersen.

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The thing I hate the most about regens is that they're so unrealistic with attributes all over the place.

You'll get strikers with amazing tackling and central defenders with great crossing attribute. Most of them don't even resemble a role or anything. If you look at the non-regen 15-16yo players in your team you'll see that all of them already resemble roles they'll develop into, which isn't the case with regens.

Some of them are better off being retrained for completely different position to their natural one.

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So you're managing Freiburg and you're expecting them to produce you a Messi every year, have I got that right??

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So you're managing Freiburg and you're expecting them to produce you a Messi every year, have I got that right??

No. He wants at least two a season.

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No. He wants at least two a season.

Granted my Freiburg is now in the Bundesliga. Well Established Youth Recruitment too, but still Good Junior Coaching. Bernhard Peters is my HOYD (all of my guys are professional)

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No. He wants at least two a season.

My mistake......seems reasonable :D

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