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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2016 Out Now - Official Feedback Thread

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Aside from other bugs and annoyances I won't talk about yet, I don't understand this game sometimes.

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As someone has mentioned, there is a ppm for a player to 'refrain from taking long shots'

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any news about the update.I know that i am a annoying,but i stopped play the game about two weeks

All of your last posts were all asking about a new patch, surely by now the answer should be known to oyu. It'll be ready when its ready and SI will never reveal a release date until it is ready.

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Are the visual cues for individual player mentality genuine, i.e. at all comparable to the sliderisms of yesteryore? In particular at the most structured, that looks insane. On a defend team mentality this is the gaps between a FB /D and a FWD / A (midfielders on attack duty don't seem to clock in overly hugely less).

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Naturally, the CM/A vs a CM/d shows in the analysis too. It's apparent he's far more forward pushing in his passing choices.

Bournemouth's Gosling as a CM/a.

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Bournemouths Surman as a CM/d

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A side effect of the passing analysis is that you see how the player positions himself, as that's where he gets involved on the ball. So Surman shows up much deeper in the passing analysis as well. You pick a CM/d because he sits deep and keeps basic position, vice versa for attack (with support in between), that's always been the primary function when duty came around. Sure, on some roles you can add a "hold position" or "get further forward" manually, but it's limited to a selected few combinations, and it's as argued causing conflict -- not only is duty now determining positioning, whether and how frequently a player pushes forward with his runs, the setup also hugely has an influence on general play -- even on a defend team mentality in particular on structured setups, the attack duties players are this aggressively, they just completely override the intended team behavior and coherency. If that complete forward (attack) above gets the ball, all he'll try to do is to get goalside, and that's on the second most defensive team mentality. Forget about any ball retention much with him. What's the internal debate on this been like?

edit: flicking through it all, it seems only on the fluid setups you have reasonably tight bands anymore (previously you had those on all of the shapes/fluidities). On structured it basically says goodbye to any of the team mentalities you pick, and duty almost taking over wholesale and generally a huge gap between your last defender/d (being encouraged to play it ultra safe) and your forward/a (who's basically encouraged to go for it, chap, regardless of any mentality). Supports my playing experience as well, with attack duty players being forward pushing in all of their choices by default almost regardless of team mentality. You can clearly sense where the occasional "time wasting" AI is coming from here as well, dawdling on the ball deep and spamming passes, as the AI managers up defend dutys typically when they go defend/contain, which know has a severe knock-on on passing choice etc. as well. Cleon's currently advocating to decide on which structure to pick based on the increasing levels of creative freedom/self expression, more fluid systems given more if it and vice versa, something I would've supported previously completely. With FM 2016, this seems utterly and completely different. It's also more convulted by a country mile.

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@svenc

Your illustrations show that Mentality is not only a 'risky pass' tool - but also a positioning tool as I have been trying to point out all along. To break down Defensive teams you need to implement a certain amount of players on attacking duties (especially in the more attacking strategies) that should cause us to be more efficient in the final third of the pitch.

On the part of the more structured strategies: fluid team shapes are more for the normal roles that play the basic type of conventional football using wingers, central midfielders, fullbacks, deep and advanced forwards, DMs and AM's, ect... Fluid just lets those roles play their normal game, whereas playing structured allows players to play outside of the 'normality'. That's why if you play structured with the 'normal' roles you won't really be doing yourself a favor because you are basically just focusing on 'normal'...

Highly structured allows players to focus more on their roles (which is written on the tin as well) so that their 'behavior' becomes more effective. The more specialized roles you want to use, the more structured you want to be. Playing specialized roles in very fluid systems basically makes the players act more like the normal roles, which kind of defeats the purpose of choosing a specialized role in the first place...

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It's what we've kept saying. Mentality = level of risk taken. Not just with passes, but in every decision, including forward runs, dribbling, shots, passes, tackles etc.

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unfortunatelly it seems as fm's weakest point becomes more clear with every year. instead of thinking about tactics and football management player has to think how to translate tactics into ME language of mentalities, structures, roles and duties. a labyrinth of bad translations on all levels.

i appreciate the difficulties of translating football into software but user shouldn't play the guess game of what real tactic instruction means in ME terms. when you add game specific instructions that don't exist in real world it all gets more vague and ambigue. i don't think the game is bad but i firmly believe si will have to tackle this problem making the game more user friendly by introducing more football friendly language kicking out the gamey stuff. seems it is a turning point again after SI made right decision to ditch gamey sliders. now it has to think the way to ditch gamey mentalities, structures and stuff, or at least re invent these things into more football like terms.

until then, for majority of players it will be the game of guesses as it was with sliders.

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unfortunatelly it seems as fm's weakest point becomes more clear with every year. instead of thinking about tactics and football management player has to think how to translate tactics into ME language of mentalities, structures, roles and duties. a labyrinth of bad translations on all levels.

i appreciate the difficulties of translating football into software but user shouldn't play the guess game of what real tactic instruction means in ME terms. when you add game specific instructions that don't exist in real world it all gets more vague and ambigue. i don't think the game is bad but i firmly believe si will have to tackle this problem making the game more user friendly by introducing more football friendly language kicking out the gamey stuff. seems it is a turning point again after SI made right decision to ditch gamey sliders. now it has to think the way to ditch gamey mentalities, structures and stuff, or at least re invent these things into more football like terms.

until then, for majority of players it will be the game of guesses as it was with sliders.

Personally, I think that the tactics translates into the ME if people actually read and understand the descriptions. The game also drops huge hints during matches and in those staff meetings between fixtures, but it seems these things evade a lot of the community. The confusion comes with the fact that there are people who don't know how to use the instructions and don't grasp the simple aspects of football (like how to use attacking or defending to your advantage)...

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@svenc

Your illustrations show that Mentality is not only a 'risky pass' tool - but also a positioning tool as I have been trying to point out all along. To break down Defensive teams you need to implement a certain amount of players on attacking duties (especially in the more attacking strategies) that should cause us to be more efficient in the final third of the pitch.

There's a small overlap between mentality and the forward runs, namely in their timing. I.e. the "get overlap" instruction utilized this by maximizing the mentality on the FBs so that he was encouraged to run forward ASAP rather than when play has just reached the box. However the current setup is still mixing up two fundamentally different things, and that is the license given to players whether at all and how frequently they make attacking runs PLUS mentality. Duties have always been linked to the runs from deep setting of yore, which has become the current "hold position/get further forward" instruction. It was really really simple, with a couple exceptions, attack duty players always look to make attacking runs, defend duty players stand their ground. Mentality in total is an altogether different thing, though there's that overlap. Those mentality gaps in the more structured setups seem gigantic, and they highly influence patterns of play. You can have numerous attack duties, i.e. players going forward on any mentality and vice versa, the mix is up to you, thus you can have movement and break down teams on any mentality. Only that as per FM 2016, attack duty players are not only given license to run forward ("gets further forward" activated, typically), they also play a significantly more aggressive game as their peers (vice versa for defend duty players), which almost draws the team mentality moot looking at the huge gaps in the more structured setups. This is the reason why unlike previously, having a couple of attack duty players in midfield or in wide positions even in more restrained team mentalities gets and moves the ball forward aggressively. At least

Going by old community theorems, if the cues are accurate, the highly structured setups aren't coherent strategies. Which is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. But currently it's like locking the defend duty players and the attack duty players in a separate locker room each before kick-off, and telling the defend duty guys, in particular those in deeper positions: "Look, we're looking to not concede today" vs. the attack duty guys, in particular those higher up the pitch: "Go grab and smash". Even if you go "defensive" as a team strategy/mentality, midfielders and forwards on an attack duty appear to be given orders like that. Consequently the defend duty guys are far more prone to just recycle the ball (as long as they're not pushed) vs the attack duty guys immediately looking to move it goalside. That's quite an overhaul there. What's more, you can only avoid or lessen it it if you go very fluid, as the gaps aren't as huge there going by the visual cues in the interface, the guys whilst given slightly different marching orders aren't all locked in seperate rooms, if you will. And that's where the specialists and generalist theorems you describe above can kick in, which is an altogether different layer about the levels of creative freedom/self expression and another area where all of a sudden previously reasonable simple functions appear to mix up. It's arguably not that hugely an impactful one at least compared to mentality now being linked to duty.

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Personally, I think that the tactics translates into the ME if people actually read and understand the descriptions. The game also drops huge hints during matches and in those staff meetings between fixtures, but it seems these things evade a lot of the community. The confusion comes with the fact that there are people who don't know how to use the instructions and don't grasp the simple aspects of football (like how to use attacking or defending to your advantage)...

mate, even the basic mentalities give you wrong impression when you read them. not to go into depth svenc goes above where mentalities are split among the roles to such an extent that you need to do a scientific experiment to barely understand how it works.

basically, i don't want to learn about underlaying workings of how real football tactics translate to ME and in game tactics. i want to implement my ideas into ME and play the game.

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basically, i don't want to learn about underlaying workings of how real football tactics translate to ME and in game tactics. i want to implement my ideas into ME and play the game.

Sadly if you want to discuss this in technical terms, there's no way around going into specific details. Technically this isn't the ideal place for such, admittedly. I'd ignore it if it confuses, and by the way, it's not as if the AI would be able to "crack" anything or be programmed to be a super entity without faults (in fact, as late as FM 2015, I'd argue even beginners have an inherent advantage over AI-Guardiola in terms of setting teams to build-up -- if you're the slightest into the most basic guidelines, he's trying to get a short passing game going there whilst having a lone forward on attack duty always (=gets further forward activated), that is whilst he looks to keep possession, ahead of his flat midfield he employs he has typically Lewandowski visibly rushing miles ahead of play). For the player, THOG has this all translated very well already in his posts, he covered the aforementioned changes as per FM 2016 too in here. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/442751-Important-FM16-Tactical-Changes

First, the Team Shape setting has been streamlined to make it less convoluted and easier to understand. It still affects differences in mentality and creative freedom, but now, "Very Fluid" means the team will tend to be more compact (with more creative freedom) whilst "Highly Structured" means the team will tend to spread out more back-to-front (with less creative freedom) with Fluid/Flexible/Structured simply being sequential steps between those two extremes.

In addition to that, now all team shape settings incorporate mentality differences between duties (just like the old Flexible setting used to work). So on any Team Shape setting, you should generally see more risk taking and more aggressive positioning from an Attack duty midfielder compared to a Support duty midfielder. One consequence of this is that your duties will have a greater influence on your overall style of play. A team full of Support duties will be far more possession-oriented whereas a team full of Attack duties will try to initiate attacks with much more urgency.

The argument thus is whether that should at all be the case, and that's why it's suited to the general feedback, as it's a huge thing likely completely unnoticed so far by most. To me it's making things actually more complicated (I went as far as calling it actually a conflict). Previously this was actually very simple, and covered by any in-game text. A full-back defend would keep his position. A full-back attack would look to surge forward. On support duty he would generally step up to support the midfield, but be more cautious with his attacking movement. Now you are ought to consider whether you want a side more forward pushing vs. recycling possession when picking your duties too, as it also influences the overall play. The new thing for me was that I only recently noted the visual cues. Being more oftenly a more "structured" guy, where they tie in nicely with what I'm observing due to the team being the most "spread out", as THOG puts it.

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mate, even the basic mentalities give you wrong impression when you read them. not to go into depth svenc goes above where mentalities are split among the roles to such an extent that you need to do a scientific experiment to barely understand how it works.

basically, i don't want to learn about underlaying workings of how real football tactics translate to ME and in game tactics. i want to implement my ideas into ME and play the game.

Basic mentalities do not give you the wrong impression - what's wrong is the interpretation and what people think they believe when the look at the ME. For example, this is something that goes on a lot around the forums:

You have a scenario where a Manager comes onto the forums and says "I can't get my team to play as a unit" - he then shows his tactical settings and right away I notice he has 4 players with the 'tries risky passes' instruction implemented in the roles. Now, he does not see the reality (if you take away the GK) that this makes almost half the outfield players attempting risky passes which naturally causes problems. Then you have people coming in giving him advice to play with more lower Mentalities - because apparently low mentality = more safe passing to some - and then he tries it and comes back saying "it's not working..."

Another big problem you have is that people on the forum somehow thinks their 'tactical outlook' should make sense in the game. In reality, it doesn't make sense in the game or out in the real world. Let's take Mourinho as an example: he has been a master of Counter Attacking football - but what happens when the other teams find out how his tactics work and become more efficient in stopping it? I mean, you are counting on countering spaces that the opposition leaves open - what if they decide not to do that anymore? It's kind of like waiting for someone who isn't coming...

You will be saying to yourself "he'll come, just wait and see..." and the other guy is saying "nah, I ain't coming - you think I am falling for that? No, I am going to wait and see if I can get a lucky punch or a set-piece and then you are going down in flames, my friend..." ---- Have any of you heard of the term "having a plan b or a plan c and coaches not having it"? This is what is going on in the game as well. They are trying to spell things out like having an attacking tactic and a defensive formation along with your 'preferred' tactical formations, they are giving you options to learn multiple strategies, they are dropping other hints as well. If you notice them or not, it's up to you...

But to come out and think that your strategy just should automatically be sufficient is just naive - you have to adapt your game sometimes and if you do so at the right moments, you will naturally reap the rewards...

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I don't want to make a blanket defense of the current system, because there are plenty of problems with it, but if you generally make sensible footballing decisions about how your team will play, keep TIs and PIs to a minimum (when you fully understand how they will combine), you won't need to worry about what's happening under the hood. Just watch the game, take a quick look at the analysis screen, and make small tweaks to straightforward set-ups. The system is designed so you don't have to "translate" anything from real-life football to FM football. Unless you plan to be the next Bielsa, FM does not make it difficult to implement popular tactics.

Could there be more detailed explanations and better labels for things? Yes. Will you fail if you just keep it simple and sensible and stop turning on every setting just because it's there? No.

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You can have numerous attack duties, i.e. players going forward on any mentality and vice versa, the mix is up to you, thus you can have movement and break down teams on any mentality.

Here is the part where a lot of people fail and that is getting the balance right within the strategy you are using. First of all, many people simply doesn't understand the concept of when you can attack and when you should defend - which is really a very important part of football. Secondly, you have to use the right amount of players (more or less) with the whole duty concept to actually complement the strategy you are using. Can you make the Defensive strategy just as attacking as the Attack strategy? Not really, because of the closing down settings and the Defensive line. If you use too many Attacking duties in the Defensive strategy you will cause some pretty big contradictions that will not be good for the tactics at all.

Individual duties have to have, more or less, the right balance - and when you do that, then the descriptions of the strategies become more in sync with the visual ME. If you are all over the place, then naturally up will look down and down will look up... There are team settings that compliment each strategy - it's not rocket science to figure out which settings complement which strategy...

Only that as per FM 2016, attack duty players are not only given license to run forward ("gets further forward" activated, typically), they also play a significantly more aggressive game as their peers (vice versa for defend duty players), which almost draws the team mentality moot looking at the huge gaps in the more structured setups.

The huge mentality gaps in structured setups allows the ME to emphasize more on the 'roles' rather than the flowing type of game play where you have wingers running down the lines, ect... ect... Playing structured also requires that the Manager really knows what 'roles' you want where and what 'roles' you use together to make the team more of a unit - thus making it much harder to get right than the fluid systems which are fairly basic.

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I don't want to make a blanket defense of the current system, because there are plenty of problems with it, but if you generally make sensible footballing decisions about how your team will play, keep TIs and PIs to a minimum (when you fully understand how they will combine), you won't need to worry about what's happening under the hood. Just watch the game, take a quick look at the analysis screen, and make small tweaks to straightforward set-ups. The system is designed so you don't have to "translate" anything from real-life football to FM football. Unless you plan to be the next Bielsa, FM does not make it difficult to implement popular tactics.

Could there be more detailed explanations and better labels for things? Yes. Will you fail if you just keep it simple and sensible and stop turning on every setting just because it's there? No.

Wouldn't say plenty of problem, though definitely some long standing key areas that can be working on (naming of mentalities, and the visual link between TI and PIs ie. if you choose a TI, it should highlight on a player any PI its "activated". This avoids some of the massive unknowing overuse of instructions). But essentially on the money here.

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unfortunatelly it seems as fm's weakest point becomes more clear with every year. instead of thinking about tactics and football management player has to think how to translate tactics into ME language of mentalities, structures, roles and duties. a labyrinth of bad translations on all levels.

The strangest thing to me about the FM community is the number of people who make posts like this, in comparison to the number of people who watch the game on anything more than Key Highlights. People moan about the tactics system, but they don't even play the game tactically in the first place... because the majority of them are too impatient to do so and they never spot issues anyway because they don't watch the game regardless.

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The huge mentality gaps in structured setups allows the ME to emphasize more on the 'roles' rather than the flowing type of game play where you have wingers running down the lines, ect... ect... Playing structured also requires that the Manager really knows what 'roles' you want where and what 'roles' you use together to make the team more of a unit - thus making it much harder to get right than the fluid systems which are fairly basic.

You're talking about the increasing levels of creative freedom / self expression in fluid setups, which is a different thing. Naturally if players are given license to self express, as is the case in fluid setups, very specific jobs given very specific instructions aren't as strictly followed/adhered to. It's another thing though and has little to do with mentality at all. Should take this somewhere else anyway. :D Doesn't seem like you get anything official on that sudden overhaul, which is quite drastic in its impact, which would interest me hugely personally.

If you use too many Attacking duties in the Defensive strategy you will cause some pretty big contradictions that will not be good for the tactics at all.

Btw, may be semantics, but it isn't anything bad at all inherently either. Previously all you did was giving a high number of players license to make forward runs always (there are a couple of exceptions, as playmaker roles available on attack duties for instance visibly aren't encouraged to do that). Still that's pretty much it. Obviously it's not "defensive" in any kind of way, as multiple players making regular forward runs from their default position means exposing your side. Whenever the ball is dropped, all of those players have to rush back into position. It's basically overloading the final third with attacking players, which you can do on any mentality. Which is why duty was so beautifully simple in its original conception, which by now is not so simple anymore.

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The strangest thing to me about the FM community is the number of people who make posts like this, in comparison to the number of people who watch the game on anything more than Key Highlights. People moan about the tactics system, but they don't even play the game tactically in the first place... because the majority of them are too impatient to do so and they never spot issues anyway because they don't watch the game regardless.

i've always played the game on extended, i believe now it is comprehensive, anyway, one notch above full match. so keep your generalisations for yourself.

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Comparison of the youth facilities of two Istanbul teams considering the last 15 years

Galatasaray’s GOOD Youth Facilities:

Bulent Korkmaz (Played for 20 years as a key player)

Suat Kaya (Played for 10 years as a first team player)

Emre Belozoglu (Played for Galatasaray 5 years as a key player. He also played for Inter, Newcastle, Atletico Madrid and Fenerbahce)

Okan Buruk (Played for Galatasaray 12 years as a key player. He also played for Inter and Besiktas)

Tugay Kerimoglu (Played for Galatasaray 12 years and Blackburn Rovers 9 years)

Arda Turan (Barcelona player)

Semih Kaya (Galatasaray’s first team player)

Sabri Sarioglu (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Emre Colak (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Galatasaray's transfer spent this season: 4.5M euro

Fenerbahce’s GREAT Youth Facilities:

NONE!

Fenerbahce’s transfer spent this season: 42M euro

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Comparison of the youth facilities of two Istanbul teams considering the last 15 years

Galatasaray’s GOOD Youth Facilities:

Bulent Korkmaz (Played for 20 years as a key player)

Suat Kaya (Played for 10 years as a first team player)

Emre Belozoglu (Played for Galatasaray 5 years as a key player. He also played for Inter, Newcastle, Atletico Madrid and Fenerbahce)

Okan Buruk (Played for Galatasaray 12 years as a key player. He also played for Inter and Besiktas)

Tugay Kerimoglu (Played for Galatasaray 12 years and Blackburn Rovers 9 years)

Arda Turan (Barcelona player)

Semih Kaya (Galatasaray’s first team player)

Sabri Sarioglu (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Emre Colak (Galatasaray’s rotation player)

Galatasaray's transfer spent this season: 4.5M euro

Fenerbahce’s GREAT Youth Facilities:

NONE!

Fenerbahce’s transfer spent this season: 42M euro

If you have any issue with Data.. post it here please: http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/504-Database-and-Research-Issues

Pointless posting it in this thread.

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anybody seeing backpass bugs? defenders try backpassing to keeper but he passes too weak so the striker scores

had 2 of these in 3 matches, then i replayed the match that happened the second time out of frustration and had it happen again but this time with a header, at least now i can get the pkm to report since i was sort of expecting it

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oleoleg8DBx.gif

i hope the patch is coming soon ... this is very annoying .. it ruined my whole season ... :(

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You want to patch out strikers outmuscling defenders?

lol outmuscling ... the defenders doing that in the fm even with a 2 meters distance to the striker ... it looks totally ********

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Btw, may be semantics, but it isn't anything bad at all inherently either. Previously all you did was giving a high number of players license to make forward runs always (there are a couple of exceptions, as playmaker roles available on attack duties for instance visibly aren't encouraged to do that). Still that's pretty much it. Obviously it's not "defensive" in any kind of way, as multiple players making regular forward runs from their default position means exposing your side. Whenever the ball is dropped, all of those players have to rush back into position. It's basically overloading the final third with attacking players, which you can do on any mentality. Which is why duty was so beautifully simple in its original conception, which by now is not so simple anymore.

The Mentalities vary with the same role/duty from strategy to strategy, so that (for example) a Central Midfielder on support duty in the more Attacking strategies has a higher mentality setting than a Central Midfielder on support duty in the more Defensive strategies. So, the positioning will be different, put that on top of the strategies' Defensive Line settings and Closing Down settings - which also vary from the lower strategies to the higher strategies - and you will have entirely different structures. Too many Attacking duties whilst sitting deep defensively can only spell disaster and playing too many Defensive duties in the attacking frameworks won't be doing any favors in trying to pry open a stubborn defense...

Maybe we could get away with that before in previous versions, but you said it yourself - there is a more visual aspect in the behavior of the different mentalities. My experience so far is that if you are too far away in terms of duties that actually make up the different strategies, you get a lot more 'disconnected' and it is something I would advise against (if you actually want to be successful in the long run, of course)...

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lol outmuscling ... the defenders doing that in the fm even with a 2 meters distance to the striker ... it looks totally ********

Thats what is happening whether you like it or not.

Your clip is shoulder to shoulder, the defender goes to push Kane wide and Kane responds causing the defender to stumble & lose balance. The defender probably gets pushed a little too far away but thats only the graphics and makes no difference to the fact that Kane outmuscled him and then scored. Even if the graphics are improved that goal would have still happened.

In terms of RL you see it all the time in matches.

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Yeah there is absolutely nothing wrong with that clip. 2 players chasing a 50-50 ball, Kane outmuscles (defender probably does go wide a bit further than needed but yeah as pointed out above, he might have stumbled, tripped over his own leg in contact etc causing him to stumble further) and finishes. See it week in week out, no matter what level of football you watch.

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The amount of backpasses that goes over the line, for a corner, i find a a bit high.

I know this was a problem, with players attempting a backpass with the wrong foot, in FM15.

Seems like it's back again.

Another thing that is back are goalscoring crosses. There's quite a few of them.

That was also present in FM15 before it got toned down considerably.

Might need some toning down again.

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Match engine this year feels much better.

Changes to training are disappointing though! Inability to change individual training workload independent of the team workload is a big minus. Also who ever thought of the idea that you can't cancel PPM training!?!? Central midfield you can't train differently for attack or defense roles. Also MC role doesn't train tackling and marking anymore!?!?

Transfer prices are ok, i don't see why are people complaining. But no single scouting or offer remains private. As soon as I get a scout report card on someone press leaks it!?!? Every single above average player that seemed good for the price I have put on the shortlist. All of them and I talk about 25 players got signed by a bigger club next transfer window despite those clubs heaven't really been needing them. All the good options just disappear!?!? It didn't happen before! I could track player for 3 years on my shortlist and sign him when the circumstances are right. But now they snatch them away from me first! I am forced to go for too expensive deals... And than I go for expensive deal, and look the miracle bigger club from my league makes an offer too... What are budgets for if you can't use them?

If this is intended Than there should be mechanism to notify me if a bit smaller clubs are eyeing a good deal, so I can also snatch me some!

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Guys is anyone seeing the injury 'Broken Ankle' way too often? I have four players all out with the exact same injury, checked some other teams and they have some players with the same injury. I accept and acknowledge that injuries are very common irl and the game but always a broken ankle?

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Not sure if I should report this as a bug or not...

Recently started a new save with Manchester United. I picked the Russian league pre-season start date of June 13th, in order to get transfers done as early as possible and to get a longer pre-season to get all three tactics to full fluidity. When I start the game, I have a training camp scheduled to start on June 15th, and am asked to register players for it on the 14th. Problem is, quite a few of my players are on international duty and therefore ineligible to be registered. Then on the 15th, the training camp starts and some of my players return from international duty the same day, and Smalling and Shaw immediately start complaining about being left out of the camp squad before I have any chance to register them. To make matters worse, after several tries it seems that there's nothing I can do or say to them to calm them down - I either promise to sell them or they start complaining to other players. Thankfully this doesn't lead to full on mutiny, so it's just Smalling and Shaw who are unhappy. But I'm unsure whether it makes any sense to keep playing this save. If they calm down by themselves early enough for me to get their morale high(ish) before the start of the season then it's not a big issue, but I'm not sure they will. Extremely annoying.

I really don't understand why you can't register players on international duty even if they're not available at that specific point - they are all returning way before the camp ends. What's even more baffling is that I can register Phil Jones, even though he's out injured for months and therefore doesn't have any chance whatsoever to play before the start of the season, let alone during the training camp.

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Not sure if I should report this as a bug or not...

Recently started a new save with Manchester United. I picked the Russian league pre-season start date of June 13th, in order to get transfers done as early as possible and to get a longer pre-season to get all three tactics to full fluidity. When I start the game, I have a training camp scheduled to start on June 15th, and am asked to register players for it on the 14th. Problem is, quite a few of my players are on international duty and therefore ineligible to be registered. Then on the 15th, the training camp starts and some of my players return from international duty the same day, and Smalling and Shaw immediately start complaining about being left out of the camp squad before I have any chance to register them. To make matters worse, after several tries it seems that there's nothing I can do or say to them to calm them down - I either promise to sell them or they start complaining to other players. Thankfully this doesn't lead to full on mutiny, so it's just Smalling and Shaw who are unhappy. But I'm unsure whether it makes any sense to keep playing this save. If they calm down by themselves early enough for me to get their morale high(ish) before the start of the season then it's not a big issue, but I'm not sure they will. Extremely annoying.

I really don't understand why you can't register players on international duty even if they're not available at that specific point - they are all returning way before the camp ends. What's even more baffling is that I can register Phil Jones, even though he's out injured for months and therefore doesn't have any chance whatsoever to play before the start of the season, let alone during the training camp.

To me it sounds like it's something that very well could be posted in the bugs forum.

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I kinda feel PPM's are maybe slightly heavily weighted.

For example I'm seeing players with the shoots from distance PPM get in behind the opponents defence (ie be clean through on the keeper) actually stop 30 yards from goal and shoot instead of running through for a 1v1. I understand that to an extent this is to be expected expected , but it's really weird seeing Kane be through in behind the defence , physically stop and let them back in position then shoot from miles out. My other strikers without the PPM just continue on through.

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To me it sounds like it's something that very well could be posted in the bugs forum.

We'll see if I get around to it... :rolleyes:

I did manage to find a workaround though, I cancelled the first pre-season game that was scheduled to be played on the first training camp day and the complaints didn't happen.

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To me it sounds like it's something that very well could be posted in the bugs forum.
We'll see if I get around to it... :rolleyes:

So rather than helping SI improve the game for both yourself and the rest of the community, you'd rather just send your moans out into the ether via this thread?

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Finally an CM/FM with complete newgens! At last, I've only been waiting since 94!

Some of the most balanced newgens I've ever seen on this series. Well done SI.

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So rather than helping SI improve the game for both yourself and the rest of the community, you'd rather just send your moans out into the ether via this thread?

Why the need for a comment like that?!

This is the feedback thread. He gave feedback while wondering if he should report it as a bug or not.

He's still unsure whether to report it or not, but he definitely gave feedback.

As simple as that.

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He rolled his eyes at the thought of posting it in the bugs forum? I guess that's feedback of sorts.

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Are we still mindful of the "crossing bug", because I may have cracked it.

Briefly, crossing is way over-powered - at least in the lower leagues. I've been restarting saves in Levels 8-10 because my wingers with crossing attributes of 4 or under keep making pin-point crosses to the extent that 46% of my goals were coming from one winger whipping in a fantastic ball to the far post for the other winger to tap in (my striker never getting involved).

So this was persistently happening in my 433 formation, using AMRs on each flank as attacking wingers. What I've done is change the formation to a 442 - I still have attacking wingers (the same players) but at MR rather than AMR. Suddenly they're as pants as they ought to be and it's a struggle to score goals and grind out results.

I think therefore the AMR position needs looking at, certainly in a 433 with a lone striker who is used as an F9, dropping deep and effectively taking himself out of the game.

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I really hope the next patch fixes the identical crossed goals being scored for and against my teams.

An early cross that passes everyone and is scored by the opposite winger, Or a set piece from the sides that is tucked in on the far post. ME is very repetitive but we have seen worse I guess at this stage.

Also I'd like to get some numbers on how many games or minutes are enough for each promise to be completed.

For example I promised a player a run in the side in 30 days and I have 5 games, How many games/minutes/sub appearance will be sufficient?

We need more information and maybe a proper manual, Most features are there but we don't OFFICIALLY know how to it works.

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Don't comment much, but wanted to give my two cents this time.

Think SI did a great job with the game. Reason being, the game is much harder/more challenging and you need a good squad in order to win games consistently. In the older versions I'd always be tempted at some point to download a tactic which exploits the ME and dominate everything with a mediocre squad. Then the game quickly becomes boring.

This time however there seem to be no ME-breaking tactics, and the good tactics actually play nice football. And winning requires building a team up over a number of years (if you start from the bottom like me), and them still losing a few games, which is way more satisfying than just winning too easily. I think this is the FM I've most enjoyed in many years, and I mean 10 years or something like that...

So I hope if SI do an update they keep this feature, that the game is hard to beat. I'm almost tempted to say don't update it because I don't want the new ME to be exploitable :) So by all mean tame down crosses a bit and so on, but don't change too much... And well done overall.

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Hi

Just bought the game last week and agree with "dkouv" comments above re playability and the game overall. really enjoying it. Coupled with the Andromeda skin, the game looks fabulous and plays very smoothly on my system. Congratulations SI.

Two questions:

1. Every time I load the game it goes through a fairly long process re start up with foreign languages appearing in the bottom right hand corner. This seems to add a good 20 seconds to the start up procedure. Is this normal or am I missing something; and

2. How and where can you find out what relationship you have with the other managers? Is that found in the press conferences or does that dialogue refer to the journalists re indifferent, devious etc?

Cheers

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The strangest thing to me about the FM community is the number of people who make posts like this, in comparison to the number of people who watch the game on anything more than Key Highlights. People moan about the tactics system, but they don't even play the game tactically in the first place... because the majority of them are too impatient to do so and they never spot issues anyway because they don't watch the game regardless.

Heh, whatever you say.

I think some people forget that the type of player who signs up for Football Manager isn't always someone who has a full comprehensive knowledge of football tactics. The amount of people who try implementing a 4-2-3-1 with the three AM strata and 2 in the midfield strata, -who have then been told it is better to do it as a 4-4-1-1 or any other variation where the positions are more withdrawn, has been numerous. Apparently the formation is the defensive shape, though I didn't actually know that until I read it on the Tactics forum, just as I didn't realise the AMR/L positions were more 'forwards' than they were midfielders.

Bear in mind, when people are watching Sky or other football on television, that is the formation that is being displayed, with AM position players, or at least that is the impression that is being given. Also bear in mind that depending on your culture, people aren't much inclined in some nations to discuss tactics in the real world at anything more than what Alan Shearer can put out on Match of the Day. Even people from more "cultured" footballing nations sometimes query the descriptions of the more exotic player roles, either rightly or wrongly.

So that's problem number one. Football in the real world operates on a different language or interpretion than football as a concept in football manager does, or rather, a better way is to say that football in the real world often operates on a more simplistic approach than the FM world does, because the audience isn't expected to be savvy about the single or double pivot, trequartisas and enganches, the WM or any other exotic formation.

The second problem then becomes one of implementing information from that world to the FM world, where the tactical descriptions sometimes don't add up to what is being fed back to the person's real world preconceptions. If you happen to be one of those who manage to throw things together and go on to have success, that's fine. The problem I think, is where people stop and start to wonder how to actually use the tools they have to their full abilities. Then, they're faced with either picking the system up rather easily, or if they struggle, they have to deal with concepts or ideas that are alien to them. There's a disconnect somewhere.

Nothing annoys me more than seeing some advisor's say that the game is 'easy' and that tactics is easy and people just make it hard for themselves. I don't buy that, even if I feel the game can be quite easy, particularly in terms of over-achievement, I don't find picking up the tactics or concepts easy at all, maybe because I'm a savage English brute, who loves the romantic idea of the dead 'number 10' player in the hole, and direct wingplaying 4-4-2's, whatever it is, the concept isn't clear or simple for me, and it isn't for other either. I find Law easy to understand and read, I find FOOTBALL Laws easy as well, yet you'd be unsurprised at how many people struggle on both counts to pick either up in a professional or amateur capacity - in fact you would argue in the real world, only a select few people would understand those elements in any great depth, that's why there are so few lawyers and referees around the world. It is also why there are so few good/great managers out there.

As I'm in danger of losing my point, I'll just close with this. I feel, this argument over tactics reminds me of the older arguments back in the slider days, where it was a constant debate over whether the game is a 'game' for enjoyment or a 'simulation' for the "hardcore" crowd. I think FM has always had to walk a difficult tightrope in keeping itself accessible to both, and personally I think FM needs to re-direct resources towards making the game more accessible and more in line with those who may not grasp tactics either in the FM world or the real world (or both), because there's a lot of those types of players, either new, clueless, or competent but struggling with 'translation' who do deserve, in my view, to be able to dive in and get to grips with the systems and such where getting out of the game is a last resort (i.e. all the information is in-game, without the need for additional information outside of it.) - That might be a pipe dream "ideal world" though, but steps can be taken to get there! :)

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I appreciate your position and thoughtful response. I'll buy that a lot of players don't fully understand creating tactics, and that FM's versions of real-world roles/situations/etc. don't always line up.

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The game is good. I had the 14, didnt buy 15 but bought the 16.

Is anyone else having problem with too much I am not getting first team football talk . I had one player complaining about it in preseason and it continued even when he was playing more than half of my matches as a starter (he was playing atleast once per week). And if I have only one match in 2 weeks another player comes and does the same out of nowhere.

And i hoped they changed the press conference remarks but they seem exactly the same. That Opposition coach praises you , you say he is a nice guy and the next response about inferiority complex comes up, it's kinda irritating. I leave my pre and post match conferences to my assistant but this one I cant avoid.

And also if I try and declare interest in transfer in a player , nothing happens like in the previous versions where an Inbox message comes. Is that for everyone or have they changed it so it does not happen.

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