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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2016 Out Now - Official Feedback Thread

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I think you haven't been following the issue - no body has been questioning the results of games or struggling to win - it's merely that the team settings you implement don't visually fit the description when looking at the screen. It's not all of the settings, it's that some of them either don't work or contradict the intended game plan.

You are presenting another problem with your Hib side that we haven't gotten too much into yet...

Sorry I thought the issue was playing attack or control doesn't/can't work and counter aattck with wingers is the only thing people can get to work, if this isn't the case then I misread it somewhere along the way

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Sorry I thought the issue was playing attack or control doesn't/can't work and counter aattck with wingers is the only thing people can get to work, if this isn't the case then I misread it somewhere along the way

The strategy ladder has a purpose, like svenc mentioned in regards to match odds. If you know how to use strategies you always do better than worse - it's always been like that (well, at least since 2006 when the ME changed). If you use only one tactic/strategy to gain success throughout the whole season/game - then what we are talking about is either 1) that the user found a tactic/settings that the ME can't cope with and/or 2) that the ME values are pretty weak (maybe in certain areas) so that they are easily overridden. Neither scenarios are good and usually needs a couple of patches to fine tune...

Edit: Forgot to add that the strategy ladder still works - a little too good maybe... That was the eventual point I was coming too...

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After checking I have scored 52 goals with 9 against in 17 matches.

AF3F833E12912BFB242B9BD6C868C47A182C58C7

D9A30F35617882902336FE073D88E4371C77A868

175A6B288D176D987F40D588EFEFB26F733ECED2

1A99B269C9ECE4B6B745F0EFF1CC54665C1FCBA9

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The strategy ladder has a purpose, like svenc mentioned in regards to match odds. If you know how to use strategies you always do better than worse - it's always been like that (well, at least since 2006 when the ME changed). If you use only one tactic/strategy to gain success throughout the whole season/game - then what we are talking about is either 1) that the user found a tactic/settings that the ME can't cope with and/or 2) that the ME values are pretty weak (maybe in certain areas) so that they are easily overridden. Neither scenarios are good and usually needs a couple of patches to fine tune...

Edit: Forgot to add that the strategy ladder still works - a little too good maybe... That was the eventual point I was coming too...

Fair enough, I have 2 tactics, one I play the majority of games but I vary the tactic depending on players and who we play, also the tactic changes during the game again depending on how we're playing.

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I dont mean i dont believe him, i just mean hes acheiving a highly unrealistic result. Even rangers dont have a 3 goal differential per game IRL.

Rangers have scored 44 goals in 15 games, one short of 3 per game, not too hard to achieve is it.

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This is a whole other debate ( and one that I'm fully on the side on, though aware the actually implementation is tricky). But more info like Cleons and wwfans (among others) needs to be codified and added to the game itself.

I think there's a couple of things that could be done almost immediately that aren't that tricky.

1. Tactics screen - When you are building a tactic the players move up and down as per role & duty, I would suggest they also move as per the current team instructions you have applied, you would get a much, much clearer visualisation.

2. Tactics "pitch" view - Sort of a predictive heatmap. This would be a view of the pitch showing which areas the roles / duties would cover the most (I get how the opposition play would impact this, but as an illustration).

3. Visual indication of risk. A simple visual indicator of the level of risk your current set-up provides e.g Attacking mentality + Higher DL + Faster Tempo + 4 attacking duties = Risk factor 5/5. I appreciate that's not the most sophisticated way of explaining it, but again I think it will help people to understand better what impacts TI's, Roles & mentality have on one another.

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I think there's a couple of things that could be done almost immediately that aren't that tricky.

1. Tactics screen - When you are building a tactic the players move up and down as per role & duty, I would suggest they also move as per the current team instructions you have applied, you would get a much, much clearer visualisation.

2. Tactics "pitch" view - Sort of a predictive heatmap. This would be a view of the pitch showing which areas the roles / duties would cover the most (I get how the opposition play would impact this, but as an illustration).

3. Visual indication of risk. A simple visual indicator of the level of risk your current set-up provides e.g Attacking mentality + Higher DL + Faster Tempo + 4 attacking duties = Risk factor 5/5. I appreciate that's not the most sophisticated way of explaining it, but again I think it will help people to understand better what impacts TI's, Roles & mentality have on one another.

I think these are all truly excellent suggestions. For example it would make it obvious that having the GK distribute to a right/left back drags that player's average starting position much closer to the GK. Also, once you display this predictive visualization, you can add all sorts of useful information to it. Like displaying a heatmap of passing range for each player. Or display a region around a player that visually shows his closing down threshold.

I really don't want to have to watch an entire match just to figure out how tactical settings affect an players average position with or without the ball. It really should be visualized as you suggest.

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Rangers have scored 44 goals in 15 games, one short of 3 per game, not too hard to achieve is it.

Right but you were also claiming to only have allowed 3 goals the whole season. Such a high GD for hibs makes you wonder if a ME imbalance is being exploited, much like when i see everton winning the league.

When i say "attacking is useless" i dont mean you cant win using it, particularly in a situation like rangers and hibs where your squad is much stronger than most of the league. What im saying is that more conservative tactics overperform and theres little reason to go attacking.

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I think these are all truly excellent suggestions. For example it would make it obvious that having the GK distribute to a right/left back drags that player's average starting position much closer to the GK. Also, once you display this predictive visualization, you can add all sorts of useful information to it. Like displaying a heatmap of passing range for each player. Or display a region around a player that visually shows his closing down threshold.

I really don't want to have to watch an entire match just to figure out how tactical settings affect an players average position with or without the ball. It really should be visualized as you suggest.

You'd still have to watch the game to see if it played out the way you set it up. Games are dynamic and your will shape will be influenced (and influence) by the opposition

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I think there's a couple of things that could be done almost immediately that aren't that tricky.

1. Tactics screen - When you are building a tactic the players move up and down as per role & duty, I would suggest they also move as per the current team instructions you have applied, you would get a much, much clearer visualisation.

2. Tactics "pitch" view - Sort of a predictive heatmap. This would be a view of the pitch showing which areas the roles / duties would cover the most (I get how the opposition play would impact this, but as an illustration).

3. Visual indication of risk. A simple visual indicator of the level of risk your current set-up provides e.g Attacking mentality + Higher DL + Faster Tempo + 4 attacking duties = Risk factor 5/5. I appreciate that's not the most sophisticated way of explaining it, but again I think it will help people to understand better what impacts TI's, Roles & mentality have on one another.

On 3: This is where I have an issue with the current names of the mentalities. Because they are actually varying degrees of risk, from Contain to Overload

I'd also add that we need to add more to show attacking and defensive transitions.

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On 3: This is where I have an issue with the current names of the mentalities. Because they are actually varying degrees of risk, from Contain to Overload

I'd also add that we need to add more to show attacking and defensive transitions.

I agree with this, as usual.

----

Not a fan of the heatmap thing, as it'll show very little if you think about it. Also, it'll be hugely dependent on the other roles, your TIs/PIs and the opposition.

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On 3: This is where I have an issue with the current names of the mentalities. Because they are actually varying degrees of risk, from Contain to Overload

I'd also add that we need to add more to show attacking and defensive transitions.

Agree, which is the point I was trying to make..I think..

Instead of being drawn into the descriptions of mentality, if you could visually see what clicking "attacking" did, you would start to focus more on the visual representation rather than the description, which is exactly what you should do.

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The other thing I'm not overly keen on is the representation of the changing context of defensive line / closing down (amongst others) on the TI / PI screen.

It's a step in the right direction, but the UI needs a lot more work.

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You'd still have to watch the game to see if it played out the way you set it up. Games are dynamic and your will shape will be influenced (and influence) by the opposition

Agreed. Your tactics are only 50% of the tactical equation; your opponents are the other 50%. Which is why focusing on maintaining morale and team cohesion is more important that tactics. The opposition can only mess with your team's morale via the "mind games" nonsense; and then only rarely.

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The strategy ladder has a purpose, like svenc mentioned in regards to match odds. If you know how to use strategies you always do better than worse - it's always been like that

I think the issue with the strategy ladder is it simply doesn't work like it's described.

IIRC Cleon was telling people in the tactics forum that when you are an overwhelming favourite and/or playing teams that are going to setup to defend against you that you should be picking a strategy lower down the ladder (ie Defensive or Counter), this doesn't (imho) tarry with the descriptions OR logic.

The problem SI have is

A: The tactics module at this point has gotten pretty complicated and some choices are poorly labelled or simply not explained well.

B: Implementing some of the suggestions we see to sort it out is going to make a complex game even more complex and risks alienating a part of the user base that already finds all the options overwhelming.

I generally feel at this point that even after playing this game for 20 years and spending the last few reading blogs and tactics guides that I generally blunder onto a successfully tactic and stick with it rather than understand the game enough to create one I want. I go into the tactics forum every day and read something that makes me think "W T F" and players who think they understand the game being schooled by CLeon and realising they've more blundered onto a winning tactic than designed it.

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@treble_yell

Let's look at that scenario, you are at home and an overwhelming favorite. This means that your team quality also is far superior than your opponent, it is expected that they would sit deep and pass the ball around the back and try to evade pressure. That is why if you don't put them under enough pressure, then the opponent can easily run down the clock and maybe grab that 1 shot 1 goal scenario. And since you are not attacking enough to break the lines then you might not end up with the result. But it is a fine balance when you are talking about Defensive Line and Closing Down - because if you press too hard against an opponent that has the quality to run rings around your team pressing too hard, that will spell trouble. This is the main theory around the strategy ladder - being able to understand your teams quality compared to your opponent is not always an exact science, but by being able to have the right settings you should do better than worse.

It's not that you will win just because you chose the exact right tactic - but you will definitely give your team better percentages in getting a better result than if you chose something 'way off base' that tends to throw you into a state of utter randomness (which is where you really don't want to be). In the real world, the game of football is a game of attacking and defending - teams need to get their tactics more spot on if they are to succeed in getting a result. If you are a great team (or you are greater in quality than your next opponent) you would expect to be able to attack and put your opponent under pressure. If you have a real low quality team, you might want to play more defensively and try to grind some points. If you have a team somewhere in between, you might want to do a little bit of both (depends on your opponent). I think the strategy ladder is something that SI is trying, in a way, to reflect that aspect of the real world game of football...

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any new about the upcoming update?

no but you can expect it between now and november 2016.

when they release it it will be announced on here when it goes live.

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In France you can only loan 7 players to domestic clubs. My DoF is set to deal with players on development list. Why oh why does he keep accepting domestic loan offers when we've reached our max for this season. This is frustrating and leads to me having to take over so I only accept foreign offers and get my players loaned out.

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In France you can only loan 7 players to domestic clubs. My DoF is set to deal with players on development list. Why oh why does he keep accepting domestic loan offers when we've reached our max for this season. This is frustrating and leads to me having to take over so I only accept foreign offers and get my players loaned out.
Likely to be bugged behaviour, one to raise in the transfers & contract sections of the bugs forum.

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@treble_yell

Let's look at that scenario, you are at home and an overwhelming favorite. This means that your team quality also is far superior than your opponent, it is expected that they would sit deep and pass the ball around the back and try to evade pressure. That is why if you don't put them under enough pressure, then the opponent can easily run down the clock and maybe grab that 1 shot 1 goal scenario. And since you are not attacking enough to break the lines then you might not end up with the result. But it is a fine balance when you are talking about Defensive Line and Closing Down - because if you press too hard against an opponent that has the quality to run rings around your team pressing too hard, that will spell trouble. This is the main theory around the strategy ladder - being able to understand your teams quality compared to your opponent is not always an exact science, but by being able to have the right settings you should do better than worse.

It's not that you will win just because you chose the exact right tactic - but you will definitely give your team better percentages in getting a better result than if you chose something 'way off base' that tends to throw you into a state of utter randomness (which is where you really don't want to be). In the real world, the game of football is a game of attacking and defending - teams need to get their tactics more spot on if they are to succeed in getting a result. If you are a great team (or you are greater in quality than your next opponent) you would expect to be able to attack and put your opponent under pressure. If you have a real low quality team, you might want to play more defensively and try to grind some points. If you have a team somewhere in between, you might want to do a little bit of both (depends on your opponent). I think the strategy ladder is something that SI is trying, in a way, to reflect that aspect of the real world game of football...

Again , people like Cleon are saying that going attacking (ie being attacking enough) isn't really how you beat a team set out to defend against a much better team , in fact a lower mentality may actually be much more attacking in reality and is more likely to work.

And this is what I find counter intuitive. In the first instance you think "oh I'm Spurs and I am playing Bournemouth at the WHL, I'm top of the league and scoring for fun , I want to attack them from the start , I'll set my mentality to attacking" when in reality the more attacking mentality might end up being counter or standard.

There are real issues with how the Tactics module relates to what happens on the pitch , or at least with how well it communicates these things with the user.

I mean my counter attacking tactic is making 20+ chances a game just now , which seems wrong given its Counter/Flexible no TI or PI and only 1 attacking duty in the whole team

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@treble_yell

I can't comment on other forum members that take their time to help the community and write threads. I can't say that I have studied his work to give my perspective on that either.

Through the years, I wrote a lot of threads myself trying to explain how I played the game using the strategy theory. I went to great lengths showing screens shots & explanations of not only what one can do - I also backed them up by showing screen shots of my last saves (usually I went at least half a season without saving which took a good 8-12 hours before I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore) and put my saves up for download so people could also go in and verify/study everything that I did in the game. I could prove that it was a very sound tactical insight and pretty successful as well.

In my book, if one tactic works best in all the scenarios - home favorites/underdogs - away favorites/underdogs - neutral pitch favorites/underdogs - then we are looking at something either exploiting a ME weakness and/or that the ME itself is very unstable...

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@treble_yell

I can't comment on other forum members that take their time to help the community and write threads. I can't say that I have studied his work to give my perspective on that either.

Through the years, I wrote a lot of threads myself trying to explain how I played the game using the strategy theory. I went to great lengths showing screens shots & explanations of not only what one can do - I also backed them up by showing screen shots of my last saves (usually I went at least half a season without saving which took a good 8-12 hours before I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore) and put my saves up for download so people could also go in and verify/study everything that I did in the game. I could prove that it was a very sound tactical insight and pretty successful as well.

In my book, if one tactic works best in all the scenarios - home favorites/underdogs - away favorites/underdogs - neutral pitch favorites/underdogs - then we are looking at something either exploiting a ME weakness and/or that the ME itself is very unstable...

I haven't said I am using one tactic or mentioned anyone playing with one tactic, and I don't think you seem to understand what it is I am actually commenting on given what you have replied (twice now) especially the first time you quoted me where the scenario you talk about bears no relation to anything I wrote.

No disrespect dude , but given the changes to tactics this year as detailed here ; http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/442751-Important-FM16-Tactical-Changes , I'm not sure stuff learned in previous years is still fully relevant.

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I haven't said I am using one tactic or mentioned anyone playing with one tactic, and I don't think you seem to understand what it is I am actually commenting on given what you have replied (twice now) especially the first time you quoted me where the scenario you talk about bears no relation to anything I wrote.

No disrespect dude , but given the changes to tactics this year as detailed here ; http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/442751-Important-FM16-Tactical-Changes , I'm not sure stuff learned in previous years is still fully relevant.

None taken - I am pretty sure that I did answer that I think the ME in it's current state is not where it should be in terms of values in the ME, so it is a little difficult to say exactly how the ME is going to work - it's far too early.

I am not sure that the SI is going to change the whole ideology behind the ME so that Defending Mentalities are going to be the 'new' Attacking type of mind-set and vice-versa... I mean, they could, but that would be shooting themselves in the foot in my opinion...

And by the way, the strategy ladder type of game play you and I are talking about - it still works in this ME, far too well in my opinion as well...

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Again , people like Cleon are saying that going attacking (ie being attacking enough) isn't really how you beat a team set out to defend against a much better team , in fact a lower mentality may actually be much more attacking in reality and is more likely to work.

And this is what I find counter intuitive. In the first instance you think "oh I'm Spurs and I am playing Bournemouth at the WHL, I'm top of the league and scoring for fun , I want to attack them from the start , I'll set my mentality to attacking" when in reality the more attacking mentality might end up being counter or standard.

There are real issues with how the Tactics module relates to what happens on the pitch , or at least with how well it communicates these things with the user.

I mean my counter attacking tactic is making 20+ chances a game just now , which seems wrong given its Counter/Flexible no TI or PI and only 1 attacking duty in the whole team

Because it's not about attacking or defending, it's about risk. Most top teams don't play high risk high tempo football. When viewed as levels of risk, the mentalities make a great deal of sense.

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Because it's not about attacking or defending, it's about risk. Most top teams don't play high risk high tempo football. When viewed as levels of risk, the mentalities make a great deal of sense.

This is where you are going to see a lot of footballers disagree with that. If we take Barcelona as an example, I don't think this planet has seen such an attacking type of football as the one they practice. They press very high up the pitch and push the defensive line as far as they can humanly possible. I mean, look at Jordi Alba and Alves, they are constantly getting forward. Iniesta, who play as a central midfielder is constantly bombing up into forward areas as well. When you look at the settings that, for example, a complete wing-back has - FMers will naturally assume that that fits the description of how Barce's fullbacks play or that Iniesta is an Advanced play maker with Attacking duties...

I am under the impression that if you write it on the tin, then the only way to make sense of it is to be able to see visually that it works (more or less) the way it is described. Recently Roma away to Barce, tried to play quite cautious and compact - but unfortunately they pushed their Defensive Line too far forward (I said that to myself already early in the match) and they got killed 6-1. What Barcelona is practicing is far away from anything resembling Defensive mentality - that is for sure... Even the football experts saying that this planet hasn't seen such an attacking type of football - one that Guardiola is also trying to implement in Bayern...

Attacking mentalities shouldn't be 'risk' - it should represent that you are attacking in your mentality... If you make that back to front, we are in for a bumpy ride in the forums as gamers won't be able to come to terms that the most attacking team on the planet is actually playing a defensive mind-set... Because what would leave the mentality for those teams that play against Barcelona who seem to concentrate on all the defensive aspects of the game of football?

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This is where you are going to see a lot of footballers disagree with that. If we take Barcelona as an example, I don't think this planet has seen such an attacking type of football as the one they practice. They press very high up the pitch and push the defensive line as far as they can humanly possible. I mean, look at Jordi Alba and Alves, they are constantly getting forward. Iniesta, who play as a central midfielder is constantly bombing up into forward areas as well. When you look at the settings that, for example, a complete wing-back has - FMers will naturally assume that that fits the description of how Barce's fullbacks play or that Iniesta is an Advanced play maker with Attacking duties...

I am under the impression that if you write it on the tin, then the only way to make sense of it is to be able to see visually that it works (more or less) the way it is described. Recently Roma away to Barce, tried to play quite cautious and compact - but unfortunately they pushed their Defensive Line too far forward (I said that to myself already early in the match) and they got killed 6-1. What Barcelona is practicing is far away from anything resembling Defensive mentality - that is for sure... Even the football experts saying that this planet hasn't seen such an attacking type of football - one that Guardiola is also trying to implement in Bayern...

Attacking mentalities shouldn't be 'risk' - it should represent that you are attacking in your mentality... If you make that back to front, we are in for a bumpy ride in the forums as gamers won't be able to come to terms that the most attacking team on the planet is actually playing a defensive mind-set... Because what would leave the mentality for those teams that play against Barcelona who seem to concentrate on all the defensive aspects of the game of football?

You're conflating the team mentality, with the further instructions you can add, and then the roles and duties you can attach to the individual players. Risk =/= attacking

Not sure why you would mention Barcelona and a defensive strategy though. Under Pep they would probably be sat around counter, though other instructions. Playing differently under Luis Enrique, moving ball around a little quick, with slight less possession. There is a large amount of malleable scope under each mentality

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You're conflating the team mentality, with the further instructions you can add, and then the roles and duties you can attach to the individual players

This is what has got scratching my head right now. If Attacking strategies with more Attacking mentalities is not about attacking (or defending) and the amount of emphasis of it - then why don't they just change the Strategies/Mentalities to "very safe" Strategies/Mentalities all the way up to "very risky" Strategies/Mentalities --- I mean, that would make a lot more sense and it's 'written on the tin'...

That would make the game even more easy also, because I think I already know what Mentality I will be choosing...

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This is what has got scratching my head right now. If Attacking strategies with more Attacking mentalities is not about attacking (or defending) and the amount of emphasis of it - then why don't they just change the Strategies/Mentalities to "very safe" Strategies/Mentalities all the way up to "very risky" Strategies/Mentalities --- I mean, that would make a lot more sense and it's 'written on the tin'...

That would make the game even more easy also, because I think I already know what Mentality I will be choosing...

Bingo, this is my issue with the current naming of them.

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This is what has got scratching my head right now. If Attacking strategies with more Attacking mentalities is not about attacking (or defending) and the amount of emphasis of it - then why don't they just change the Strategies/Mentalities to "very safe" Strategies/Mentalities all the way up to "very risky" Strategies/Mentalities --- I mean, that would make a lot more sense and it's 'written on the tin'...

That would make the game even more easy also, because I think I already know what Mentality I will be choosing...

I'm about to run a few test games where I am going to completely ignore the mentality ladder altogether, by that I mean leaving it on standard. I'll focus on player roles / duties and 2-3 TI's that represent what I would think are true attacking & defending instructions.

Will be fun...

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Not sure why you would mention Barcelona and a defensive strategy though. Under Pep they would probably be sat around counter, though other instructions. Playing differently under Luis Enrique, moving ball around a little quick, with slight less possession. There is a large amount of malleable scope under each mentality

"Counter attacking Football involves a team withdrawing players into their own half but ensuring that one or two players are committed to the attack. The idea is to try to get strikers isolated from the defenders by lurking on the halfway line, and to create space for a quick break."

This is never how I saw Barcelona play, under Guardiola or Enrique... If SI or anyone else comes and says that is how they play, well then, you are changing the concepts of football. Having played the game myself on the pitch, I remember quite clearly the training exercises that went along with 'counter-attacking' football and I know for sure, also looked at them play live at the stadium, that the way they play has nothing to do with counter-attacking football...

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I'm about to run a few test games where I am going to completely ignore the mentality ladder altogether, by that I mean leaving it on standard. I'll focus on player roles / duties and 2-3 TI's that represent what I would think are true attacking & defending instructions.

Will be fun...

It would be better to do it over a whole season, to get the consistency. A few games probably isnt a big enough period

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"Counter attacking Football involves a team withdrawing players into their own half but ensuring that one or two players are committed to the attack. The idea is to try to get strikers isolated from the defenders by lurking on the halfway line, and to create space for a quick break."

This is never how I saw Barcelona play, under Guardiola or Enrique... If SI or anyone else comes and says that is how they play, well then, you are changing the concepts of football. Having played the game myself on the pitch, I remember quite clearly the training exercises that went along with 'counter-attacking' football and I know for sure, also looked at them play live at the stadium, that the way they play has nothing to do with counter-attacking football...

I'm not at any point talking about counter attacking football, nor did i mention it. I'm talking about levels of risk

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Point-blank finishes score way too seldom. Talking primarily about those where you get a drilled cross in to the foot off a striker and he ALWAYS manages to square in straight at the keeper.

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"Counter attacking Football involves a team withdrawing players into their own half but ensuring that one or two players are committed to the attack. The idea is to try to get strikers isolated from the defenders by lurking on the halfway line, and to create space for a quick break."

This is never how I saw Barcelona play, under Guardiola or Enrique... If SI or anyone else comes and says that is how they play, well then, you are changing the concepts of football. Having played the game myself on the pitch, I remember quite clearly the training exercises that went along with 'counter-attacking' football and I know for sure, also looked at them play live at the stadium, that the way they play has nothing to do with counter-attacking football...

He's not saying they play counter attacking football , only that they fit more under a "Counter" mentality in FM terms than they do Attacking.

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Point-blank finishes score way too seldom. Talking primarily about those where you get a drilled cross in to the foot off a striker and he ALWAYS manages to square in straight at the keeper.

Not for me. My Level 10 wingers are getting in way too many killer crosses to the far post where the oppo winger loiters for a tap-in.

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When I offer Mammana 5 million euro it is rejected when Arsenal offered 4.8 million euro it is accepted and now they ask 14 million euro cash and they dont go down. Yeah another so realistic moment

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When I offer Mammana 5 million euro it is rejected when Arsenal offered 4.8 million euro it is accepted and now they ask 14 million euro cash and they dont go down. Yeah another so realistic moment

And once again, back to this... just because the 'press' in game report Arsenal paid 4.8 million, doesn't mean they didn't include add ons, contract terms etc that make it up..

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Because it's not about attacking or defending, it's about risk. Most top teams don't play high risk high tempo football. When viewed as levels of risk, the mentalities make a great deal of sense.

Argh.... Damn you. (In jest... don't ban me...)

I'm now going to play on Contain for the rest of my FM16 career. (Not really, defensive actually...)

And I'm going to be bothered by the press asking me about my defensive leanings... And I'm going to tell them "Well, you can blame themadsheep." I've always been on the mantra of defence wins titles, but y'know what, I think I'll just throw my lot in and go down that route a bit further now! :X

Lets see if I can make low risk football somewhat exciting. I mean, I can sort of do it on a regular basis in Counter mentalities so it should be doable on Defensive right? Hopefully I won't turn into Van Gaal though.

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And we used to see offers other clubs made in the previous games why not here? I lost 2 players suddenly in the transfermarket. Game never give notification about offers has been made the ones I already made while there were no interests..

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Honestly. I'm getting pretty close to demanding a refund.

There are so many problems that haven't been addressed (especially in FMT) and it's incredibly frustrating to hear the same old lines over and over again.

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Honestly. I'm getting pretty close to demanding a refund.

There are so many problems that haven't been addressed (especially in FMT) and it's incredibly frustrating to hear the same old lines over and over again.

Eh, don't give up.

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In transfer market I made an offer for Andriy Yarmolenko and Diego Rolan, then I decided to buy 2 other alternatives since they were cheaper. Yarmolenko signed for MU and Rolan signed for Arsenal. 30 minutes ago I played my 2. game in the league with MU and Yarmolenko scored 2 amazing goal, 10 minutes ago I played my 3rd game in the league with Arsenal and Rolan scored 2 goals. What a cliche.. FM classics. Do not forget to remove the players from your shortlists. Lesson learned

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Honestly. I'm getting pretty close to demanding a refund.

There are so many problems that haven't been addressed (especially in FMT) and it's incredibly frustrating to hear the same old lines over and over again.

If there are issues, please report them. This is a feedback thread and as you know, constructive feedback is very welcome, but yours isn't. Keep that in mind for future.

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This is a fantastic idea. I hope that SI will at least think about it :)

I agree. With these instructions, you don't need to figure out what counterattack does to your instructions anymore. And if you want to counterattack, just set "direct build-up" + "low pressing style" and boom, counterattacking.

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He's not saying they play counter attacking football , only that they fit more under a "Counter" mentality in FM terms than they do Attacking.

If a counter mentality is not for counter attacking, then the description that SI gives in the game is a lie.

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If a counter mentality is not for counter attacking, then the description that SI gives in the game is a lie.

The counter mentality isn't a magic button that auto magically means your team will spring counter attacks, just the way the team is setup will maximise the chances of a counter.

Go read the tactics forum. The issue is that people just think

Defensive should be a defensive tactic

Counter a counter

Attacking means it'll be an attacking tactic

When it doesn't and this is causing a lot of the frustration being expressed here and in the tactics forum.

Like I said above, I'm dominating possession using a 4141 Counter/Flexible no TI no PI and one attaching duty in the whole team ( 20+ shots per game) my striker has 20 goals by xmas as a Defensive Forward. No one would balk the tactic defensive watching it in the ME but on paper its super negative.

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Not sure if it's worth laughing or crying over.

FM16 seems to have more reactive managers, fx. my team is ahead 1-0, depending on how dangerous I am, the other team seems to go attacking, sometimes late match, sometimes at half time. Problem is how bugged countering is, because after they go attacking I can guarantee scoring 1-2 goals (Depending on how quick they drop away from attacking) and them scoring zero.

While players may not be able to figure out how to play, the AI manager is completely broken according to the way moderators defend FM16's ME, so I find it really sad the silly argument of moderators that it's tactics problems, when SI has coded AI Managers to play in the same way that human players is told is wrong.

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