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A few questions regarding taking minnows to champions league glory and others

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I'm getting back into investing time in this game so not sure about some of the dynamics and determinants. In relation to the thread title, how often can this happen in this game? i often hear people proudly talk about how they took a league 2 club to the champions league in 5 seasons. that to me is totally unrealistic and would sort of ruin the game for me.

Where do philosophies come into it? if i'm in an interview and the chairman expects attacking football but then i end up playing defensive but getting good results would i get sacked or would fans be happy similar to the sam allardyce at west ham situation or does it matter. Is it just an addition to the game that doesn't really affect it

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I'm getting back into investing time in this game so not sure about some of the dynamics and determinants. In relation to the thread title, how often can this happen in this game? i often hear people proudly talk about how they took a league 2 club to the champions league in 5 seasons. that to me is totally unrealistic and would sort of ruin the game for me.

It simply doesn't happen in that length of time without cheating in some way.

Depending on the club, what facilities & money they have, how your game is setup and how you approach FM plays a role in if its possible and how long it takes.

If you play in a realistic fashion taking a biggish club in the lower divisions and making good transfer decisions along the way would probably see you mid premiership in around 10-15 seasons.

Where do philosophies come into it? if i'm in an interview and the chairman expects attacking football but then i end up playing defensive but getting good results would i get sacked or would fans be happy similar to the sam allardyce at west ham situation or does it matter. Is it just an addition to the game that doesn't really affect it

Each philosophy is just one part of the overall confidence along with each competition, wages, transfer decisions and the length of your contract. Doing poorly in one or two areas will drag the overall down but as long as you are doing well in other areas you are unlikely to be sacked.

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thanks for that. one more thing.. in relation to the tactical manager attributes player knowledge and youngster knowledge. is that just in relation to attribute masking or is there something else. For instance i am managing chester in the vanarama and while scouting the players available seem to be limited. is that just because of lack of scouting knowledge or is that also to do with the tactical manager attribute of player knowledge and youngster knowledge

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what does jpa and jpp mean

Judging Player Ability

Judging Player Potential

It simply doesn't happen in that length of time without cheating in some way.

It can happen without cheating - Qatari takeover.

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If you play in a realistic fashion taking a biggish club in the lower divisions and making good transfer decisions along the way would probably see you mid premiership in around 10-15 seasons.

Dag & Red to EPL & CL winners, playing an online game, without cheating of course, in 8 or 9 seasons, can't remember which, no takeover. You are underestimating there.

I'm sure someone has done it in 5 seasons, it isn't impossible, just incredibly unlikely, and requires huge slices of luck.

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It simply doesn't happen in that length of time without cheating in some way.

I think you're very confused. FM is a game, it's not the real world and the game allows a lot of unrealistic things to happen when a player controls a club.

Good players of the game can take a team like Spurs and win PRM 99 times out of 100. Eriksen can create 50+ assist in a season. In the real world, no amount of manager magick can do the same.

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Dag & Red to EPL & CL winners, playing an online game, without cheating of course, in 8 or 9 seasons, can't remember which, no takeover. You are underestimating there.

I'm sure someone has done it in 5 seasons, it isn't impossible, just incredibly unlikely, and requires huge slices of luck.

8/9 is about possible if you take a top L2 club.

Its then three promotions + establish yourself in the prem.

I think you're very confused. FM is a game, it's not the real world and the game allows a lot of unrealistic things to happen when a player controls a club.

Good players of the game can take a team like Spurs and win PRM 99 times out of 100. Eriksen can create 50+ assist in a season. In the real world, no amount of manager magick can do the same.

I'm not confused in the slightest, I've played CM/FM for over 20 years and been on the forums for over 15 years.

Every claim I've ever seen on the forum in that time has ended up with the user cheating/exploiting in some fashion. That can either be blatent like reloading to exploiting the ME to more subtle exploits such as signing known wonderkids/good cheap players or bringing outside knowledge to the gameworld.

EDIT

I'll also point out that its only a couple of months since there was another thread about users cheating/exploiting the game. I said it becomes a problem when people exploit the game and then give others a false impression of what to expect. You amongst others disagreed with me and yet the OP is a perfect example of my point in that thread.

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8/9 is about possible if you take a top L2 club.

Its then three promotions + establish yourself in the prem.

I'm not confused in the slightest, I've played CM/FM for over 20 years and been on the forums for over 15 years.

Every claim I've ever seen on the forum in that time has ended up with the user cheating/exploiting in some fashion. That can either be blatent like reloading to exploiting the ME to more subtle exploits such as signing known wonderkids/good cheap players or bringing outside knowledge to the gameworld.

EDIT

I'll also point out that its only a couple of months since there was another thread about users cheating/exploiting the game. I said it becomes a problem when people exploit the game and then give others a false impression of what to expect. You amongst others disagreed with me and yet the OP is a perfect example of my point in that thread.

Today I learned 95% of football manager players are cheaters

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8/9 is about possible if you take a top L2 club.

Its then three promotions + establish yourself in the prem.

Well I would hardly call Dag & Red a top L2 club! Predicted well inside the bottom half if I recall correctly, with a pitiful stadium.

And is it really three promotions from League Two to Prem? I hadn't realised. /s

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Judging Player Ability

Judging Player Potential

But in terms of player and young player knowledge on the tactical v tracksuit screen, does that make a difference to your scouting and how many people come up on the search because in the guides that ive seen it says that the player and young player knowledge in the tactical manager section only affects attribute masking. I dont use attribute masking so that stat wouldnt affect me?

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I think you're very confused. FM is a game, it's not the real world and the game allows a lot of unrealistic things to happen when a player controls a club.

Good players of the game can take a team like Spurs and win PRM 99 times out of 100. Eriksen can create 50+ assist in a season. In the real world, no amount of manager magick can do the same.

Fm is a game but its a game that prides itself on realism so it does feel a bit weird when people claim to have won three champions leagues in a row with mk dons. I know this game cant be totally realistic otherwise we wouldnt succeed with it at all but as im managing chester im not expecting back to back promotions, best i can hope for is mid table and then i can attract the attention of bigger clubs. I think that makes it more interesting

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8/9 is about possible if you take a top L2 club.

Its then three promotions + establish yourself in the prem.

I'm not confused in the slightest, I've played CM/FM for over 20 years and been on the forums for over 15 years.

Every claim I've ever seen on the forum in that time has ended up with the user cheating/exploiting in some fashion. That can either be blatent like reloading to exploiting the ME to more subtle exploits such as signing known wonderkids/good cheap players or bringing outside knowledge to the gameworld.

EDIT

I'll also point out that its only a couple of months since there was another thread about users cheating/exploiting the game. I said it becomes a problem when people exploit the game and then give others a false impression of what to expect. You amongst others disagreed with me and yet the OP is a perfect example of my point in that thread.

Still, it's good you're still totally not bothered about it. I mean, how dare someone play a single player game how they personally want to, and then *gasp* not be entirely truthful on an anonymous internet forum? Makes my blood boil/hanging's too good for 'em/national service for the lot of 'em etc etc etc :rolleyes:

I'm getting back into investing time in this game so not sure about some of the dynamics and determinants. In relation to the thread title, how often can this happen in this game? i often hear people proudly talk about how they took a league 2 club to the champions league in 5 seasons. that to me is totally unrealistic and would sort of ruin the game for me.

Where do philosophies come into it? if i'm in an interview and the chairman expects attacking football but then i end up playing defensive but getting good results would i get sacked or would fans be happy similar to the sam allardyce at west ham situation or does it matter. Is it just an addition to the game that doesn't really affect it

In terms of your first question, I wouldn't worry about what anyone else does in their game. Some may have done it genuinely, some won't have, but if you did the same thing - taking a league 2 club to Champions League - but took, say, 15 seasons, then it shouldn't really matter how long it took someone else.

The philosophies thing I'm not totally sure on. If you agree to one, and then go about doing exactly the opposite, then the board will have it out for you, but I don't think they would sack you while you're getting good results. Of course, good is subjective. Best advice would be to never agree to something that you have no intention of doing. Especially if it's as subjective as a style of play.

That's going by FM15 at least - I haven't managed a club yet on FM16, so possibly the philosophies are a little tighter. They were a bit loose on FM15, with certain styles of play that seem attacking not being treated as such.

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Are we talking about getting a team from L2 into the Champion's League, or from L2 to winning the Champion's League?

In my experience, it's possible to get a middle of the road L2 side into the Premier League top 4 in about 8-10 seasons. Each year I try to do so with Cambridge United (the team I support), so until recently have been starting in the Conference, with varied success. 9 is about the best I've ever done, from the Conference.

However, the amount of leagues loaded means the step from finishing top 4, to winning the Champion's League, can vary hugely. My old computer was rubbish, so I only had English leagues loaded. The Champion's League was a walk in the park until the semi-finals, so you could expect to win it within a couple of seasons. I think on FM12 I won the Champion's League twice before even winning the Premiership! More recently, with a more powerful computer, I've loaded more European leagues. On my most recent game in FM15, I've not won the Champion's League after about 8 attempts.

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Still, it's good you're still totally not bothered about it. I mean, how dare someone play a single player game how they personally want to, and then *gasp* not be entirely truthful on an anonymous internet forum? Makes my blood boil/hanging's too good for 'em/national service for the lot of 'em etc etc etc :rolleyes:

I don't know why you are rolling your eyes forameuss as a FM fan you should be just as concerned at the impression casual users get about FM from others as it has an indirect impact on future sales and future development.

Whilst as you've pointed out several times in several threads in an ideal world no one should be bothered by how others play the game but the bottom line is how users share their FM experience impacts on others as shown by the OP starting this thread.

As long as people are honest when they share their experience then it gives an honest impression of the game which is what we should all be asking for as fans.

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more subtle exploits such as signing known wonderkids/good cheap players or bringing outside knowledge to the gameworld.

How is that cheating again???

Regardless of the usual, trite, debate about cheating creating unrealistic expectations, it's far from impossible at least QUALIFYING for the CL with a L2 side within 6 or 7 seasons...

Based on past experience, it could go like that:

Season 1: Promotion to L1

Season 2: Promotion to Championship (back-to-back promotions are far from impossible, considering the amount of available free agents in the game)

Season 3: Solid C'ship season, possibly promotion

Season 4: Promotion to EPL

Season 5: Consolidation season: respectable mid-table finish and financial security

Season 6: Top-half finish, maybe EL berth, more build-up.

Season 7: Top4 challenge

I don't know if it was different in FM15, but until 14 it was totally feasible. Mediocre AI squad building and too many good players allowed any decent side to have a quick rise from the lower leagues to the EPL. Of course dethroning the tycoon-funded sides isn't easy, but establishing almost ANY club as a Top6 contender is far from a monumental feat.

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Essentially, improving your squad year on year is far too easy, even without researching in game wonderkids or manual scouting.

This makes steady and sometimes rapid movement up the leagues relatively straight forward.

Just finished 1st season with Bournemouth, was offered Vardy for £4m, Lingard for £750k and Mangala for £8m..... thanks very much, i'll take 'em all.

Didn't even need to go looking for them.

The problem is i had ZERO competition for their signatures, if they came available at those prices in real life 10 - 20 clubs across europe would be interested and they'd never come to Bournemouth, this is the ABSOLUTE crux of the matter, the biggest opportunity to take the game to the next level is completely re-developing the transfer market ensuring it is very active and situations like this don't arise.

In other words, its very easy to sign unrealsitic players for unrealistic wages & transfer fees.

Regarding club philosophies, winning games overides any shortfalls in other areas.

When joining a Club or re-negotiating your contract you can normally remove/alter these philosophies to match your own, It should be a non issue.

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Mediocre AI squad building.

Thats what id agree with, at the beginning teams are tougher in the top leagues because they are 'given' as such better players. An AI Chelsea manager for example has a squad already at his disposal to do well... 7 years down the line, that squad has dissipated/aged and its not replenished very well (either through youth, or recruitment). In the mean time, in that 7 years the human player is better at putting a squad together, will generally get the pick of some good youngsters who the AI snubs at top clubs and as such, come into the top flight facing teams who are weaker than they are at the beginning, whilst themselves have a squad already developed and raring to push on.

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I don't know why you are rolling your eyes forameuss as a FM fan you should be just as concerned at the impression casual users get about FM from others as it has an indirect impact on future sales and future development.

Whilst as you've pointed out several times in several threads in an ideal world no one should be bothered by how others play the game but the bottom line is how users share their FM experience impacts on others as shown by the OP starting this thread.

As long as people are honest when they share their experience then it gives an honest impression of the game which is what we should all be asking for as fans.

I think I'll be concerned about what I feel the need to be concerned about, rather than be told what to. And...yeah...I just checked, and I can confirm I find it very hard to care about what other people to do with their games.

And "affecting future sales and future development"? Come on...can almost hear your hands wringing from here. Do you really think legions of people are going to buy or not buy FM based on some punter on a forum saying they can get Salford City to Champions League glory in 2 seasons? Or would they maybe, you know, do a little bit more digging and find out for themselves?

Should we also ban Dafuge from talking about anything he does, because he'll be giving a false impression on what you can achieve in game? I mean, not everyone - especially those put upon casual users - will be able to achieve that level of success, so it's giving a false impression. SRL88 as well when he was around, his careers were just trophy after trophy. Totally unrealistic, isn't it?

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Clearly we are never going to agree on the issue forameuss so I'll leave it at that but I would say for someone that says they don't care you have very strong opinions on the subject....

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How is that cheating again???

Regardless of the usual, trite, debate about cheating creating unrealistic expectations, it's far from impossible at least QUALIFYING for the CL with a L2 side within 6 or 7 seasons...

Based on past experience, it could go like that:

Season 1: Promotion to L1

Season 2: Promotion to Championship (back-to-back promotions are far from impossible, considering the amount of available free agents in the game)

Season 3: Solid C'ship season, possibly promotion

Season 4: Promotion to EPL

Season 5: Consolidation season: respectable mid-table finish and financial security

Season 6: Top-half finish, maybe EL berth, more build-up.

Season 7: Top4 challenge

I don't know if it was different in FM15, but until 14 it was totally feasible. Mediocre AI squad building and too many good players allowed any decent side to have a quick rise from the lower leagues to the EPL. Of course dethroning the tycoon-funded sides isn't easy, but establishing almost ANY club as a Top6 contender is far from a monumental feat.

I didn't say it was cheating, I said it was a subtle exploit.

LLama rules for FM were created way back in the mid 90s by people who wanted to play FM in a realistic fashion. Not signing known wonderkids and not bringing outside knowledge to the gameworld has always been a big part of those rules. Some users stick to them religiously while others play their own version of them but the aim is always to play realistically.

Over recent years SI have tightened up the coding and added options for those users such as the fog of war on the attributes and players not travelling halfway around the world to sign for your part time club in the middle of nowhere.

As Rosler points out the transfer market & AI squad building continue to be an issue. Choosing a balanced gameworld at the start and the improvements over the last few versions have helped but there is still work to be done in that area including more pressure on human users to sell good players to better clubs.

Tactically the ME has also improved but overly aggressive attacking tactics are an issue which sees things like back to back promotion far too common in the community (FM15 in particular has a weakness for top heavy tactics which sees lower rep clubs with a significant advantage in that area).

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Clearly we are never going to agree on the issue forameuss so I'll leave it at that but I would say for someone that says they don't care you have very strong opinions on the subject....

Nice try, but I said that I didn't care what other people do with their saves. You do, and I find the hand-wringing and white-knighting on that subject worth commenting on, as I find it pretty ridiculous. I would've thought that was obvious.

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Nice try, but I said that I didn't care what other people do with their saves. You do, and I find the hand-wringing and white-knighting on that subject worth commenting on, as I find it pretty ridiculous. I would've thought that was obvious.

Yet again you totally miss the point.

I don't care what people do with their saves, only about how they represent them & FM to the community & the wider public.

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Yet again you totally miss the point.

I don't care what people do with their saves, only about how they represent them & FM to the community & the wider public.

Thought you were leaving it at that? Your comments in other topics seem to abhor any kind of cheating, or even exploits. But if you say so. I don't really care on the latter either - if it's that obvious, then it's just that, pretty obvious, so shouldn't affect anything. If it isn't obvious, then that usually means it's possible through the framework of the game. So again, not really affecting anything. If someone wants to come on and say they've gotten a Conference side to CL winners in successive seasons, I'll shrug, put it down to them doing something shady and move on. I won't make a huge deal out of it, and claim that it's the death knell for the game and that no-one will ever buy it again.

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Thought you were leaving it at that?

Bordering on trolling for a reaction now forameuss.

I'm done arguing with you on the issue but am always happy to discuss subjects in an adult matter

Your comments in other topics seem to abhor any kind of cheating, or even exploits. But if you say so. I don't really care on the latter either - if it's that obvious, then it's just that, pretty obvious, so shouldn't affect anything. If it isn't obvious, then that usually means it's possible through the framework of the game. So again, not really affecting anything. If someone wants to come on and say they've gotten a Conference side to CL winners in successive seasons, I'll shrug, put it down to them doing something shady and move on. I won't make a huge deal out of it, and claim that it's the death knell for the game and that no-one will ever buy it again.

You are correct I have strong opinions on dishonesty & cheating whether that be with regard to FM or any other subject.

FM wise dishonesty is something of an issue within the community IMO for several reasons:

A) It gives a false impression of the game to others which leads to myths. An example in the past is superkeepers which over recent times SI, mods & users have worked to show them for what they are, myths.

B) It demeans the achievements of others and leads to the likes of the leaderboards being a waste.

C) It can waste the time of other members of the community & SI staff who investigate issues only to find the user hasn't been totally honest about them.

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Bordering on trolling for a reaction now forameuss.

I'm done arguing with you on the issue but am always happy to discuss subjects in an adult matter

:D

Again, good to see you're not bothered.

Not wanting to sound pedantic but you did actually in your first post in this thread state that it was cheating. Which is actually false because it's not uncommon within the confines of the game for what the OP stated to happen without any form of cheating. Remember first and foremost that this is a game so the minute you press continue you are already deviating from reality.

The real issue which you and others have addressed is the fact that the AI is relatively poor with regards to building and maintaining a team which is why the human player can so easily overachieve with time. A balance needs to be struck somewhere along the line and hamstringing players by enforcing artificial limitations into the game isn't really the way to do it which unfortunately has been the way of things - either forced (limiting recruitment of players from anywhere on PT contracts) or voluntarily (playing LLM rules).

The answer can only lie with increased calculations so that the AI can think better (like with the evolution of chess computers) but that also comes with great problems as the computing power available for the general player of this game isn't remotely capable of such things. So how to improve? This is the dilemma which SI finds themselves in:

A better simulation means more calculations which requires better processing power of the gamer

Increased processing power of the gamer means fewer people buy the game (very few non-die hard gamers are going to spend big money to upgrade)

What is the end objective with regards to the whole increased realism idea anyway?

To be honest if this was a true simulation I wouldn't play it all....real football management is actually really stressful and demanding and I play the game to relax and immerse myself in an alternate reality where Accrington Stanley can become European Champions. If I felt that wasn't possible because the game decided that it's 'not realistic' what would the point in playing at all?

I'm not sure they'd ever reach true simulation. Unless we're going cutting edge AI, which I doubt SI will ever have the resources - both budget and time - to go after, then the AI will still be programmed to follow a set of rules. Human minds can work differently, and get the opportunity to observe what the AI is doing, and then think up a way to counter it. Think of it like two people playing a game of tennis - one of them (the AI) has been told just enough rules before the match to be able to play, and must abide by those. The second player is told every rule, and any intricate little ones into the bargain, and is also allowed to deviate from those. One player is always going to win when they can bring a bigger bat, or another player in to return. A true learning AI that removes the "having to play by the rules" part would be the solution, but that's a long way away, if it ever arrives.

I'm with you, I don't think I'd ever want to play a proper simulation. Completely understand those that do, and there's some that take it to those lengths, but I'd find it incredibly tedious to only be able to win things if you go one of the top sides. It's about fantasy, being able to tell a story, and there will always have to be a bit of suspension of belief within that.

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"A true learning AI that removes the "having to play by the rules" part would be the solution"

That sounds alarmingly like 'SKYNET'.............. not sure we want to go that far :brock:

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"A true learning AI that removes the "having to play by the rules" part would be the solution"

That sounds alarmingly like 'SKYNET'.............. not sure we want to go that far :brock:

At least the first two editions under Skynet will be brilliant. Third won't be up to much though.

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Can't remember last time I read a thread spinning this far from the questions in the first post..

I'm atleast going to try to take a small team to european glory this version of FM. Probably going to take some time, but atleast it's possible, because it's a game.

And after the implement of dynamic reputations, (which is to me one of the best implements ever), it's a little bit easier than before..

Edit: To take over a random team and adapt tactics to board requests can also be a nice challenge..!

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Essentially, improving your squad year on year is far too easy, even without researching in game wonderkids or manual scouting.

This makes steady and sometimes rapid movement up the leagues relatively straight forward.

Just finished 1st season with Bournemouth, was offered Vardy for £4m, Lingard for £750k and Mangala for £8m..... thanks very much, i'll take 'em all.

Didn't even need to go looking for them.

The problem is i had ZERO competition for their signatures, if they came available at those prices in real life 10 - 20 clubs across europe would be interested and they'd never come to Bournemouth, this is the ABSOLUTE crux of the matter, the biggest opportunity to take the game to the next level is completely re-developing the transfer market ensuring it is very active and situations like this don't arise.

In other words, its very easy to sign unrealsitic players for unrealistic wages & transfer fees.

Regarding club philosophies, winning games overides any shortfalls in other areas.

When joining a Club or re-negotiating your contract you can normally remove/alter these philosophies to match your own, It should be a non issue.

100% agree with this. I don't think it is *that* difficult to improve what there is, either. Just ensuring the AI is joined up between transfers and team selection would be a start (so we don't get cases where the AI spends masses on a player because of high perceived PA or CA, then never plays him because his actual CA is not high enough, and he rots away in the reserves).

Right now, I feel CM is a game with an incredibly complex match engine that is at the centre of a very simplistic AI squad building and management. I would much rather play a game where that is the other way around, because I have zero interest in tactics, I get my whole enjoyment out of playing the transfer market, nurturing youngsters, choosing how to rotate my team when I have several upcoming matches etc, and would rather that side of it was more of a challenge.

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Im all for the whole wealth of possibilities and slight overacheiving otherwise the game would be no fun but at the same time when i see stories such as that guy im the documentary who was looking to move to spain with his wife and he ended up moving to the place where he managed on fm. They were in tier 4 in spain and ge got them to la liga in 4 seasons. The ease of that would make the game unenjoyable, not to mention that he is now on the board of directors for that team in real life and they are doing badly in their league. There has to be a better balance with realism and enjoyment than just taking a team from tier 4 in spain and having back to back promotions

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There's another factor here: you become a better player as the game progresses, the AI doesn't. This is the sort of thing that becomes really noticeable if a game stretches over many real-time weeks, as FM games often do.

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It simply doesn't happen in that length of time without cheating in some way.

Depending on the club, what facilities & money they have, how your game is setup and how you approach FM plays a role in if its possible and how long it takes.

If you play in a realistic fashion taking a biggish club in the lower divisions and making good transfer decisions along the way would probably see you mid premiership in around 10-15 seasons.

I strongly disagree with that. I started with Orient on last years game who are by no means a biggish club and took them to the Prem in three years, top 6 first season in the Prem and won FA Cup and League Cup, then in my second year in the Prem won all trophies available. Applied for the Mansfield job who had just avoided relegation at the end of that season and had released pretty much all of their players over the summer. Built a squad that got promoted in my first year there and achieved back to back promotions to the Prem. First season in the Prem finished 3rd and won the League Cup and then won everything again in my second season.

So in 10-15 years I had won everything in England twice with two different teams starting from the bottom. And I definitely didn't cheat!

I don't really get what you mean by a "realistic fashion". Deliberately losing key games so you don't get promoted too quickly?

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I didn't say it was cheating, I said it was a subtle exploit.

LLama rules for FM were created way back in the mid 90s by people who wanted to play FM in a realistic fashion. Not signing known wonderkids and not bringing outside knowledge to the gameworld has always been a big part of those rules. Some users stick to them religiously while others play their own version of them but the aim is always to play realistically.

Over recent years SI have tightened up the coding and added options for those users such as the fog of war on the attributes and players not travelling halfway around the world to sign for your part time club in the middle of nowhere.

As Rosler points out the transfer market & AI squad building continue to be an issue. Choosing a balanced gameworld at the start and the improvements over the last few versions have helped but there is still work to be done in that area including more pressure on human users to sell good players to better clubs.

Tactically the ME has also improved but overly aggressive attacking tactics are an issue which sees things like back to back promotion far too common in the community (FM15 in particular has a weakness for top heavy tactics which sees lower rep clubs with a significant advantage in that area).

Furthermore, I would question how it is possible to NOT bring outside knowledge to the game. I mean, you would literally have to have been living under a rock to not know about players such as Depay a couple of years ago. We buy these games because we love football so we are going to know about these players. Do you think that IRL, managers are going into a job without knowing a single player? He meets his scouts for the first time and they ask if he's got his eye on anyone to sign that he's heard about on his year long sabbatical from the game and the manager replies "Sorry no, I've been deliberately avoiding all football so I don't see any promising players to make this job more realistic". That's the beauty of the game... All of us will know different players that excite us. All of us have different knowledge or have spotted a gem when watching our team play. I had no idea who Regan Poole was before this season but I watched Orient play Newport and he stood out in that Newport team. I looked him up on FM15 and he looked decent so I signed him. Is that cheating? Surely that's no difference to scouting on the game? Literally a week after we played them came the stories that United wanted him. This is the joy of FM.

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I strongly disagree with that. I started with Orient on last years game who are by no means a biggish club and took them to the Prem in three years, top 6 first season in the Prem and won FA Cup and League Cup, then in my second year in the Prem won all trophies available. Applied for the Mansfield job who had just avoided relegation at the end of that season and had released pretty much all of their players over the summer. Built a squad that got promoted in my first year there and achieved back to back promotions to the Prem. First season in the Prem finished 3rd and won the League Cup and then won everything again in my second season.

So in 10-15 years I had won everything in England twice with two different teams starting from the bottom. And I definitely didn't cheat!

I don't really get what you mean by a "realistic fashion". Deliberately losing key games so you don't get promoted too quickly?

If you achieved that within three years at leyton orient then that just probes the point that the game is unrealistic. Not taking anything away from your acheivements but surely to do that with such a lower team makes it too easy

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If you achieved that within three years at leyton orient then that just probes the point that the game is unrealistic. Not taking anything away from your acheivements but surely to do that with such a lower team makes it too easy

I like to think that I'd also be able to achieve that if I was in charge IRL!

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