I (no longer) suck at this game

[phd_angel]

Now I suck again

I started of pretty good in the new season in Skrill Premier. 4 wins and 2 losses. But those ar now my only wins so far. Now I've played 12 games in a row with out winning. Mostly losses, 3 draws.

I even lost in the FA Cup against a team in 21th place in Skrill North!!!

(...)

Am I asking too much to think I should be higher up in the table?

I'm in a similar situation but am turning it around. I'm coaching Millwall. Promoted it from L1 to Sky Bet: hired some great players, but suffered 13 loses and 1 draw before winning regularly again! Am about to take it out of the relegation zone. How am I doing it?...

- Check/improve coach staff (and/or assistant coach);

- Intensify training program to High with some rotation yet focusing on Balance and Team Cohesion. Don't neglect Defense training in the beginning (it pays off).

- Sell good players who consistently under-perform (and Board and fans complain about); give chance to a younger player every so often.

- Have 3 Tactic Formations and use/rotate them while making minor tweaks - this keeps your opponents (computer) guessing. (I've comeback down by 2 goals by simply changing Tactics!)

- Give pep talks on the harsher side (higher expectations) but don't be nasty all time. Be realistic and nice too.

Does this help?

[rninejr]

I just read half of the total posts here but I can say, u have a tendency to change something when things goes wrong, without carefully analyze the match. Then hoping it will be your final n winning tactic for a whole season

This game is no longer works like that. There is no absolute winning tactic anymore. U can defeat a giant on the league but don't expect the same tactic will work agaisnt oppositions weaker than yours. Mainly because they are playing different styles and also they're facing different kind of situations (players quality, team's morale, fitness n injury, home/away, being a favourite or the exact opposite, schedule, etc).

I'd like to say, it is almost impossible not to make any tactical change during a match. It's better to create a main frame of tactic, n give some rooms for changes. That's why having too many TIs isn't recommended since it discourage tactical flexibilty n potentially reduce your team's goal scoring ability

[andyk81]

Well, I'm not changing the thread title again Okay Andy, so the next step is to actually diagnose how you lose. Where are you giving up goals, how are the moves that score on you starting etc. There is a breakdown somewhere, but the only one that can really tell exactly what is happening is you as you watch the matches. What level highlights do you watch, as an aside? Or is the problem that you aren't scoring enough? On that centerback, post a pic of him if you can, as well as some other setup stuff you've done for your tactic. Really, though you have to get at the root of the problem, which is probably diagnosable.

Also, keep in mind that if you have a weakish team for a division, you can't expect a magic tactic to win you the league. Great tactics with rubbish players will still fail you, though you should expect to beat expectation with good tactical management.

Most of the goals come from crosses and set pieces. Also alot of misstakes by defenders and goalkeepers. Like goalkeeper just let a cross go strait in goal, an easy back pass to goalkeeper and he falls or try to save with his legs or something and the ball go out to an attacking oppontent. Also sometimes the defenders or middfielders just don't pass the ball when chalanged, even though I can see they can easaly pass to other player, and losses the ball and they counter in a goal.

Also they get pass my defenders easy with balls behind the defenders and then they just run pass them. I tried to compensate this by having one defender cover, which work well previous season, but doesn't help now. I also tried low defence with no success.

Here is my defender

And this is my tactic I mostly use.

I tryed also with direct pass, short pass, retain but ofcourse never toghether. Also with drill crosses (because my forward is not good in heading but fast) and hassle, get stuck in, tight marking and stay off opponent

[andyk81]

I'm in a similar situation but am turning it around. I'm coaching Millwall. Promoted it from L1 to Sky Bet: hired some great players, but suffered 13 loses and 1 draw before winning regularly again! Am about to take it out of the relegation zone. How am I doing it?...

- Check/improve coach staff (and/or assistant coach);

- Intensify training program to High with some rotation yet focusing on Balance and Team Cohesion. Don't neglect Defense training in the beginning (it pays off).

- Sell good players who consistently under-perform (and Board and fans complain about); give chance to a younger player every so often.

- Have 3 Tactic Formations and use/rotate them while making minor tweaks - this keeps your opponents (computer) guessing. (I've comeback down by 2 goals by simply changing Tactics!)

- Give pep talks on the harsher side (higher expectations) but don't be nasty all time. Be realistic and nice too.

Does this help?

I did change all my staff except the physio for this season. Not sure what qualities I should look for. I only look at what coaching attribute they are good at. Attacking, defending etc,

I have trained high defending for 20 games. Just changed to high team cohesion.

I just put my two most under-perfomring players up for sale

I use 3 tactics. 4-1-2-2-1 (standard), 4-2-3-1 (very defensive wich I used to use at the end of the games when I had the lead) and 4-4-2 (with many offensive intructions)

I try to be both harsh and realistic

[andyk81]

I just read half of the total posts here but I can say, u have a tendency to change something when things goes wrong, without carefully analyze the match. Then hoping it will be your final n winning tactic for a whole season

This game is no longer works like that. There is no absolute winning tactic anymore. U can defeat a giant on the league but don't expect the same tactic will work agaisnt oppositions weaker than yours. Mainly because they are playing different styles and also they're facing different kind of situations (players quality, team's morale, fitness n injury, home/away, being a favourite or the exact opposite, schedule, etc).

I'd like to say, it is almost impossible not to make any tactical change during a match. It's better to create a main frame of tactic, n give some rooms for changes. That's why having too many TIs isn't recommended since it discourage tactical flexibilty n potentially reduce your team's goal scoring ability

I used to change tacic alot, but not since I took over Boston. I mostly use the same tactic.

Now I have made a new tactic I will try because I need to do something

[andyk81]

18 games now in a row without winning. Even lost against a non-league team.

It's just getting so frustrating right now.

And now I have to use my under-performing defender when my best defender's out 6-8 weeks. And my newly bought defender, who I hoped would be better, is also under-performing right now

[Dr. Hook]

That center defender you posted, Wayne Thomas (interesting tidbit- he is a youth player at Torquay in Gary Nelson's Left Foot in the Grave, which I highly recommend as reading) is so bloody slow if he is the one that is getting beat with pace it is no wonder. A player that slow will be useful in static buildups, but in open play where things are moving, he is going to get wrecked.

Your basic setup looks sensible on paper, but what is the justification for the Team Instructions you have selected there? When using those, you have to be pretty sure about what they do and what you are trying to achieve with your style of play. Also, you can't just use different TI's at random trying to make something happen, you have to have a defined style of play that you want and stick to your ideals. Only use the instructions that you think will create that. What I would do in your place, after deciding how I want this tactic to work, is do NO TI's at all, and see it how it plays. Then if something you want is not happening, then add in an instruction and see if that does what you want.

[andyk81]

That center defender you posted, Wayne Thomas (interesting tidbit- he is a youth player at Torquay in Gary Nelson's Left Foot in the Grave, which I highly recommend as reading) is so bloody slow if he is the one that is getting beat with pace it is no wonder. A player that slow will be useful in static buildups, but in open play where things are moving, he is going to get wrecked.

Your basic setup looks sensible on paper, but what is the justification for the Team Instructions you have selected there? When using those, you have to be pretty sure about what they do and what you are trying to achieve with your style of play. Also, you can't just use different TI's at random trying to make something happen, you have to have a defined style of play that you want and stick to your ideals. Only use the instructions that you think will create that. What I would do in your place, after deciding how I want this tactic to work, is do NO TI's at all, and see it how it plays. Then if something you want is not happening, then add in an instruction and see if that does what you want.

Yeah I know he is slow. But couldn't find a fast defender with good other attributes. Only a young one, but he is not doing well either. And then I got another one now who is a bit faster, 7 in pace, but he also put in awfull performances.

I managed to win 2 games against fellow bottom teams with the new tactic, but now I got all but one striker fit so had to go back to my original tactic with one striker.

I'm not sure what I want with my TI's. Previous season I wanted to have a nice passing game and soldi defence and my inside forwards to com in from the side with pace and score. And that worked well. but can't manage that now, so that's my problem. Don't know how to play and get the best out of my players.

A fast counter game perhaps.

I did as you said. Had no TI's for my last game today. Lost 3-1 but it was against the team in 1st so maybe not that awfull. But I did manage to score first and this seam to be my problem. I have taken the lead so many times but can't hold it.

Also my defence is all over the place, leaving players totally free. Like this one goal. Two of their players where left totally free behind my center backs. My left back was preventing the offside.

Also one time one of my CD moved up to stop one of their midfielders so my right back moved in to center to cover leaving the right side wide open, and yes they scored.

Not sure why my CD moved up. I already had my midfield players there defending (I think). This happens alot. I tried stick to positions or drop down. I don't want him to do this. I want him to stay put and defend, but can't figure out how to do that.

I just want to scream "stay the hell back there and defend you moron" but that option is not available.

[Dr. Hook]

There are some match engine issues that will cause you problems, especially the FBs tucking in too tight, and you just have to live with it. It happens to the AI too. If you score first against a stronger team, then expect to come raging back at you with at least a control strategy and maybe more, depending on what time in the game it happens. In this case, maybe you want to play a counter style, so I would check out Cleon's thread here on counter attacking tactics. But whatever you do, you have to define what you game you want to try and play, and stick with the idea, and only use those TIs, roles, etc. that complement that idea. When you know what you want to see more clearly, it is much easier to try and fix the problems. I know it isn't a magic bullet type of answer, but it is really the only way to go about it in my view, especially when you are struggling.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

There are some match engine issues that will cause you problems, especially the FBs tucking in too tight, and you just have to live with it. It happens to the AI too. If you score first against a stronger team, then expect to come raging back at you with at least a control strategy and maybe more, depending on what time in the game it happens. In this case, maybe you want to play a counter style, so I would check out Cleon's thread here on counter attacking tactics. But whatever you do, you have to define what you game you want to try and play, and stick with the idea, and only use those TIs, roles, etc. that complement that idea. When you know what you want to see more clearly, it is much easier to try and fix the problems. I know it isn't a magic bullet type of answer, but it is really the only way to go about it in my view, especially when you are struggling.

It isn't too bad on flat 4 formations. But I find with 3 at the back (or 3-2-2-1-2) it is ridiculous, as the back five basically squash together leaving far too much of the pitch free, making it particularly vulnerable to a quick switch-a-roo!

[andyk81]

UPDATE:

Media predicted me at 22nd place in Skrill Premier and I ended on 22nd place. :/

So I got relegated

Team played a bit better towards the end, but still very uneven. But my 18 games without win was too much and couldn't save my team.

My contract was about to expire so I decided to applay for a new job. Didn't get anyone I applied to but my club got mad so gave me an option. Resign or get fired. So I resign.

Got an offer from a Swedish club, Boden, in Swedish Second Division north. They where 6 games in the new season and are in 12th out of 14th so is gonna be a struggle here aswell.

The want mid-table finish.

Team looks real awfull. I maybe did a bad choice here :/

[isignedupfornorealreason]

UPDATE:

Media predicted me at 22nd place in Skrill Premier and I ended on 22nd place. :/

So I got relegated

Team played a bit better towards the end, but still very uneven. But my 18 games without win was too much and couldn't save my team.

My contract was about to expire so I decided to applay for a new job. Didn't get anyone I applied to but my club got mad so gave me an option. Resign or get fired. So I resign.

Got an offer from a Swedish club, Boden, in Swedish Second Division north. They where 6 games in the new season and are in 12th out of 14th so is gonna be a struggle here aswell.

The want mid-table finish.

Team looks real awfull. I maybe did a bad choice here :/

You can do it! *cheerleader icon*

[andyk81]

UPDATE (if someone still interested)

I managed to take Boden from third from last to 5th place. First games I struggled a bit, but then had a very good run. If I just had won the last three games I would actually have won the league, but now I draw 2 and lost 1.

Think I over thought the last games. I tried to read the opposition and take advantage of their weeknesses, but think I should just have stuck with what worked before and used what my team was good at.

Also got my best striker injured for the last games, but my young striker wasn't that bad either.

My weekness is still my defence. Don't know how to make my team strong in the back. Started using offside trap, because I noticed that my full backs always held up the offside, and my center defenders always got higher up then them. Went a little better I think.

What really is hurting me is the corners. Very bad at defending corners. Any good strat to this? And also on free kicks.

Saw now that the way I set up my def. corners wasn't saved. Whoops. That might explain a few things. Anyway, how would you set it up with these players.

And my def. free kicks is like this.

And my attacking if there is some improvement I can do

EDIT: I replaced Jonas Berg for Simon Birgersson in the defence. I played Berg more because Birgersson young and new to the team. I hope he will do better for next season

[phd_angel]

Funniest thing happened.

I was fired by to-be-relegated Millwal and immediately hired by to-be-promoted Nottingham Forest. So, instead of UK Sky Bet League 1, I'm now playing at the Premier League.

Just comes to show that, sometimes, it's not you, but the club you coach that sucks.

[Dr. Hook]

Andy, on defensive corners I set up as follows: fullbacks sit on posts, my two CDs mark tall players, I have one player on edge of area, one stay forward, the other four zonally mark the 6 yard box. So far it has been pretty effective. Attacking corners I haven't had much joy with, so not much I can offer you there.

[andyk81]

Andy, on defensive corners I set up as follows: fullbacks sit on posts, my two CDs mark tall players, I have one player on edge of area, one stay forward, the other four zonally mark the 6 yard box. So far it has been pretty effective. Attacking corners I haven't had much joy with, so not much I can offer you there.

I will try that

I usually set up players with best heading and jumping on tall players, and the worst on the posts. Rest is man marking except one, usually a fast player or one that's not good at heading or marking, that I use as stay forward.

This I showed here I accidental used, because my adjustments didn't save.

My attacking works pretty good.

My best heading player I put attack near post, next on attack far, the strongest and with good heading and jumping on the goalie, then next good header attack deep, best at longshots lurking, the worst headers stay back and then rest go forward. (very good with a tall player with bad heading here. Then some defender mark him instead of my best header.

Near post and attack from deep is good if they have good finishing too if it comes in low.

[Dr. Hook]

Funniest thing happened.

I was fired by to-be-relegated Millwal and immediately hired by to-be-promoted Nottingham Forest. So, instead of UK Sky Bet League 1, I'm now playing at the Premier League.

Just comes to show that, sometimes, it's not you, but the club you coach that sucks.

You are right about that. We tend to have higher expectations sometimes than is warranted. I am in a save with Gloucester City and last season I was happy to finish 22nd and just miss the drop. I thought we'd do better, but the players were crap. This season sitting in 9th at the halfway point and I am thrilled. You have to adjust expectations. Taking over a sorry team more often than not will produce sorry results, no matter how much management magic you bring to the table

[andyk81]

You are right about that. We tend to have higher expectations sometimes than is warranted. I am in a save with Gloucester City and last season I was happy to finish 22nd and just miss the drop. I thought we'd do better, but the players were crap. This season sitting in 9th at the halfway point and I am thrilled. You have to adjust expectations. Taking over a sorry team more often than not will produce sorry results, no matter how much management magic you bring to the table

I understand. I got to high expactations with Boston after my great start. Before the season I was hoping just to avoid relegation, but when they played so good the first 4-5 games I satred to think mid-table.

But I should have had much lower. After all they did play over their abillities when I won Skrill North and the team was not ready at all for Skrill Premier. I thought I could manage with some new players but after I got rid of some old players and tried to find new, I just couldn't get Skrill premier level players. Most of them sucked or was over their prime.

Now with Boden I have a nice youthfull team with 5 "older" experieced players 28-32 yo. I put alot of trust in my 30yo Advance playmaker and 32yo striker (sadly injured now but I now have a good replacement for him.) they were excelent last season.

Hope I can manage a top 3 placement. Maybe even 1st which is the only promotion spot.