Reduce player complaints in fm16 Y/N Poll

[Guest]

Yes this was my point, extensions are not dated, it just looks like a longer contract so the game will not realise these players will have just signed an extension.

Also I noticed at the start of the game David Gray the captain has a squad position of rotation, I can't figure out why as he is a key player for the team, TBH I'm not happy with our researcher, he makes a lot of mistakes re squad, contracts etc hence why the editor is bought to make proper changes.

The first point will be purely a data issue, there is a field in the data to set when a player signed their current contract, what you've said would suggest that the Hibs researcher has not utilised this field & might not be aware of its importance to how the game works.

The second issue is also likely to be primarily due to the player data, Gray will be given a squad status based on an under the hood score which uses a large pool of factors to rate a player & if any single data point (normally CA or Rep) is too low in comparison to others at the club it will result in a lower than expected squad status or it's a combination of data points that on their own do not have a significant influence but when they're all added up the affect is significant.

All I can suggest is to keep posting in the Hibs data thread, if you & others are constantly highlighting factual data errors the Scottish HR or the SI data team could always step in.

[Racatte]

Way too much crying babies in FM15, and I hoped less in FM16, but it seems it won't be the case (Will only begin FM16 the 13th...). As in FM15, I'll have to use the "Remove unhappy" cheat from the IGE to play FM16...

I can understand the player who have important status may be unhappy if they don't play (Who won't be ?), but a player with rotation/support (?) status not good enough to be one of the 11 starting players (Or worse, not even a substitute), well... no.

Until FM14, that was ok, but now... It's very annoying when they complain every 3 days, and 5 out of 10 news are about them... FM15 was the worst version for me juste because of that, as I even nicknames it "Moaners Manager 15".

I still love FM (Even FM15 "MM15"), but these unhappy players... (I even considered it a bug in FM15 !).

So yes, less "unhappy players news", but no to a "no unhappy players"...

[jc1]

The first point will be purely a data issue, there is a field in the data to set when a player signed their current contract, what you've said would suggest that the Hibs researcher has not utilised this field & might not be aware of its importance to how the game works.

The second issue is also likely to be primarily due to the player data, Gray will be given a squad status based on an under the hood score which uses a large pool of factors to rate a player & if any single data point (normally CA or Rep) is to low in comparison to others at the club will result in a lower than expected squad status or it's a combination of data point that on their own do not have a significant influence but when they're all added up the affect is significant.

All I can suggest is to keep posting in the Hibs data thread, if you & others are constantly highlighting factual data errors the Scottish HR or the SI data team could always step in.

Cheers, I'm going to raise it in the data thread and hopefully get the contract issue changed, as for Gray, he's captain and our only main RB at the club, hence a Key player.

Thanks for you helpful replies Barside

[jc1]

Posted in Scottish data thread and being dealt with, thanks again Barside.

[jase19]

I have 18-22 year olds constantly complaining about not starting, as if they've proven themselves yet. They get their shot when the rotation calls for it and are brought on as subs, just like real life. I guess every 18-22 year old in the world hates playing for the club they're at. How do you build a large squad for Europe and domestic leagues cups and have everyone happy? Just curious. My squad harmony says everyone is full bar. Yet complaints are all too common. I guess I should just stick with 18 ppl and hope for the best.

[jc1]

I have 18-22 year olds constantly complaining about not starting, as if they've proven themselves yet. They get their shot when the rotation calls for it and are brought on as subs, just like real life. I guess every 18-22 year old in the world hates playing for the club they're at. How do you build a large squad for Europe and domestic leagues cups and have everyone happy? Just curious. My squad harmony says everyone is full bar. Yet complaints are all too common. I guess I should just stick with 18 ppl and hope for the best.

If they're hot prospects they generally won't complain, but if they're backup/rotation they'll want more games, I find if I buy players specifically as back up/rotation they won't moan but players that were here when I take over do, maybe they feel with a new manager coming in the they have more chance of game time.

[SMT2013]

Do we know exactly what is meant by Rotation squad status? It would be useful we had a rough % of games expected to start for each squad status. My main annoyance with the complaints is that is it based on starts rather than minutes played from what I can see. For example I played two strikers for 45 minutes each game, both had the rotation squad status, and I substituted my slower one at half time each game for my quicker one and the quicker one always complains, but the starting striker never did, even though they play roughly the same amount of minutes

[Guest]

There is no hard & fast rule other than it's game starts that matter, how often a player will expect to start matches depends on the relative strength of your team, a player's opinion on where they fit in the squad hierarchy & that player's hidden mental attributes.

[Cougar2010]

Do we know exactly what is meant by Rotation squad status? It would be useful we had a rough % of games expected to start for each squad status. My main annoyance with the complaints is that is it based on starts rather than minutes played from what I can see. For example I played two strikers for 45 minutes each game, both had the rotation squad status, and I substituted my slower one at half time each game for my quicker one and the quicker one always complains, but the starting striker never did, even though they play roughly the same amount of minutes

I've always worked on the following and have next to no issues:

First Team - 75%

Rotation - 50%

Backup - 25%

One of the SI staff posted in this thread that the rough guidelines are significantly lower than that: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/430326-OTF-Football-Manager-2016-Thread?p=10553369&viewfull=1#post10553369

Key - 60%

First Team - 50%

Rotation - 25%

Obviously these are only rough guidelines and are adjusted by other factors such as the player's hidden attributes.

I really struggle to understand how with the guidelines John has posted there how anyone has issues rotating a squad to keep most players happy.

[jase19]

If they're hot prospects they generally won't complain, but if they're backup/rotation they'll want more games, I find if I buy players specifically as back up/rotation they won't moan but players that were here when I take over do, maybe they feel with a new manager coming in the they have more chance of game time.

Doesn't work though. None of them are key players. Being in the League/League Cup/FA Cup/Europe, they all get their time in. Some are hot prospects, some are rotations... as a backup/rotation I suspect you would think it's your turn to fit in when a first team player either goes down or needs a rest. How raging upset do you think Bony or De Bruyne are only getting about 6 starts this year? They're a little bigger than a nose picking youngster. Herrara only has 5 starts. Carrick 7. List goes on, I seriously doubt anyone is looking to get out of their situation. Unless maybe we looked at Chelsea...

[HUNT3R]

Doesn't work though. None of them are key players. Being in the League/League Cup/FA Cup/Europe, they all get their time in. Some are hot prospects, some are rotations... as a backup/rotation I suspect you would think it's your turn to fit in when a first team player either goes down or needs a rest. How raging upset do you think Bony or De Bruyne are only getting about 6 starts this year? They're a little bigger than a nose picking youngster. Herrara only has 5 starts. Carrick 7. List goes on, I seriously doubt anyone is looking to get out of their situation. Unless maybe we looked at Chelsea...

Remind me why De Bruyne left Chelsea?

Btw, backups won't expect to start very often. Rotation will expect to be rotation players, so at least half the games.

[jase19]

Remind me why De Bruyne left Chelsea?

Btw, backups won't expect to start very often. Rotation will expect to be rotation players, so at least half the games.

So then I guess we can all watch him leave man city since he isn't starting every game, right?

Give me a few examples of rotation players from top clubs in the prem, if you wouldn't mind.

[HUNT3R]

So then I guess we can all watch him leave man city since he isn't starting every game, right?

Give me a few examples of rotation players from top clubs in the prem, if you wouldn't mind.

I can't predict the future. He's at a different club with a different manager and De Bruyne may be more mature/patient now. I don't know.

I'm not falling into that trap

The system in FM is simple. If you give a player a Rotation status, he's going to expect you to use him as a Squad Rotation option. There are other factors as Barside mentioned too though, which can muddy the waters.

[jase19]

I can't predict the future. He's at a different club with a different manager and De Bruyne may be more mature/patient now. I don't know.

I'm not falling into that trap

The system in FM is simple. If you give a player a Rotation status, he's going to expect you to use him as a Squad Rotation option. There are other factors as Barside mentioned too though, which can muddy the waters.

It's not a trap, I'm curious. People obviously have issues with players unhappy about playing time. I keep getting kids who can't sit still in the back seat no matter how many coloring books I give them. I'm running a club that has been a force in Europe for a decade now and people are still unhappy. My situation is not mine alone. I was just hoping for a few examples, that's all.

[HUNT3R]

It's not a trap, I'm curious. People obviously have issues with players unhappy about playing time. I keep getting kids who can't sit still in the back seat no matter how many coloring books I give them. I'm running a club that has been a force in Europe for a decade now and people are still unhappy. My situation is not mine alone. I was just hoping for a few examples, that's all.

Fair enough, then.

Youngsters want to play as well. Barside mentioned that it does depend on the quality of the others in that position too. Loan them out? Be honest and tell them to be patient? You have lots of options. If a player clearly isn't good enough, I'll tell him. If he wants to move then, fine.

Most of the players who clearly aren't good enough, you should be able to talk round. If you're getting someone who clearly isn't close to good enough to earn a starting position, who is professional and who doesn't want to accept what you're saying, report it with a save from before the chat. It may be something that needs tweaking or you will get a great explanation for why it happened. Either way, you win.

Also remember that players can come to complain about a lack of first team football, but then also admit THAT THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET IT AT YOUR CLUB which is something that quite a few people miss.

----

All that said, I can't give you real life examples.

1 - because I don't know the teams that intimately.

2 - real life doesn't have these clear cut concepts. IRL, you get played how often you get played and you decide if you're happy or not. It's a lot more vague. Don't think these chats don't happen behind closed doors just because you don't read about it in the papers. It happens.

[jase19]

Fair enough, then.

Youngsters want to play as well. Barside mentioned that it does depend on the quality of the others in that position too. Loan them out? Be honest and tell them to be patient? You have lots of options. If a player clearly isn't good enough, I'll tell him. If he wants to move then, fine.

Most of the players who clearly aren't good enough, you should be able to talk round. If you're getting someone who clearly isn't close to good enough to earn a starting position, who is professional and who doesn't want to accept what you're saying, report it with a save from before the chat. It may be something that needs tweaking or you will get a great explanation for why it happened. Either way, you win.

Also remember that players can come to complain about a lack of first team football, but then also admit THAT THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET IT AT YOUR CLUB which is something that quite a few people miss.

----

All that said, I can't give you real life examples.

1 - because I don't know the teams that intimately.

2 - real life doesn't have these clear cut concepts. IRL, you get played how often you get played and you decide if you're happy or not. It's a lot more vague. Don't think these chats don't happen behind closed doors just because you don't read about it in the papers. It happens.

As I said before, the ones that I have, and have the issue are with the club to provide depth in a long grueling Premier League campaign. They are good enough, they get the appropriate time for someone of their age and talent. They complain, we work it out. They complain again a month later, we work it out. They complain 3-4 months later... I pull the hair out of my bald head. Sometimes they complain in August, because they didn't start the first match. Sometimes they complain in the last week of the season and want to start over the next month... Ummmm? OK!!??

Judging by the notes on their personality there is nothing specifically wrong with them. I have them tutored by good players at the club and it goes well. Maybe those of us who are tired of all the complaining are just playing a game and are married too. So we get it from all directions!

---

NM>

[HUNT3R]

As I said before, the ones that I have, and have the issue are with the club to provide depth in a long grueling Premier League campaign. They are good enough, they get the appropriate time for someone of their age and talent. They complain, we work it out. They complain again a month later, we work it out. They complain 3-4 months later... I pull the hair out of my bald head. Sometimes they complain in August, because they didn't start the first match. Sometimes they complain in the last week of the season and want to start over the next month... Ummmm? OK!!??

Judging by the notes on their personality there is nothing specifically wrong with them. I have them tutored by good players at the club and it goes well. Maybe those of us who are tired of all the complaining are just playing a game and are married too. So we get it from all directions!

---

NM>

I've had those situations where a Rotation player asks for a conversation about a lack of first team football, for instance. When I went to look, he had started around 50-60% of the games, so I didn't know what the issue was. Then I looked closer. Even though he had a lot of starts, he had 1 start out of the last 5. Of course he would be wondering what's going on! Most of these cases just calls for some logic. It's just an example, but now when I get that message pop up, I go look at the total starts, his recent starts, personality, squad status and whether he deserves it ahead of the guy(s) ahead of him.

[jase19]

You're right, I'm sure nothing is wrong at all

[jc1]

Fair enough, then.

Youngsters want to play as well. Barside mentioned that it does depend on the quality of the others in that position too. Loan them out? Be honest and tell them to be patient? You have lots of options. If a player clearly isn't good enough, I'll tell him. If he wants to move then, fine.

Most of the players who clearly aren't good enough, you should be able to talk round. If you're getting someone who clearly isn't close to good enough to earn a starting position, who is professional and who doesn't want to accept what you're saying, report it with a save from before the chat. It may be something that needs tweaking or you will get a great explanation for why it happened. Either way, you win.

Also remember that players can come to complain about a lack of first team football, but then also admit THAT THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO GET IT AT YOUR CLUB which is something that quite a few people miss.

----

All that said, I can't give you real life examples.

1 - because I don't know the teams that intimately.

2 - real life doesn't have these clear cut concepts. IRL, you get played how often you get played and you decide if you're happy or not. It's a lot more vague. Don't think these chats don't happen behind closed doors just because you don't read about it in the papers. It happens.

We've had this IRL at Hibernian, Alan Stubbs told 3 younger players Handling, Stanton and Harris all 20-21 yr old, that they were not in his plans and that they could find new clubs for themselves, Harris is on loan at QOS, while the other 2 stayed to fight for their places, which isn't that bad as we'll see if they've got it. All 3 are very talented but very inconsistent and haven't blossomed like they should have, the harsh reality of pro football. The game is just the same, we have to make harsh decisions with younger players, sometimes when it's your own club it it hard to let some go as you've known them since they were lads but you are not a new manager coming in with zero connection to the club, you must try and keep your own feelings out of the game and occasionally be harsh.

[HUNT3R]

We've had this IRL at Hibernian, Alan Stubbs told 3 younger players Handling, Stanton and Harris all 20-21 yr old, that they were not in his plans and that they could find new clubs for themselves, Harris is on loan at QOS, while the other 2 stayed to fight for their places, which isn't that bad as we'll see if they've got it. All 3 are very talented but very inconsistent and haven't blossomed like they should have, the harsh reality of pro football. The game is just the same, we have to make harsh decisions with younger players, sometimes when it's your own club it it hard to let some go as you've known them since they were lads but you are not a new manager coming in with zero connection to the club, you must try and keep your own feelings out of the game and occasionally be harsh.

That last sentence is very true. I wonder how much feelings add to the frustrations in this thread? I very rarely manage real players that I know IRL. To me, they are football players. I handle the conversations like I would IRL - truthfully. If a player is being an idiot, he's dealt with or sold. There are many others who can be brought in to do the job.

[TFunster]

Yes, the problem is the restricted amount of responses you can give. I always want to tell the player that he is part of a squad, and the whole squad is needed in order to attain success, but there isn't really that option, so you end up going for something that is far harsher than you intended, and before you know it, half your winning squad is angry.

[scott MUFC]

The most annoying one is registering players, and they go completely bonkers over not making the champions league squad, even though you tell them its because of registration rules, when it gets to the point you register players for something, and no one complains, and are completely surprised then you know something is wrong.

I also have a huge number of Prm's due to lack of playtime on players I deem first team. they evne have it as "needs to leave for first team football" in the future plans, despite being first team, and only dropped to rotate and keep the team fresh.

[Guest]

iirc you've had more than enough offers of help in how to better build & manage your squad, are you ever going to seek help or just moan?

[Welshace]

In regards to your second point, that would suggest you have too many players on first team status tbh Scott... no first team player should be moaning that he's out for the odd game every now and then..

If I was a player, I know i'd not be happy about not making it into a champions league spot too depending on my team status.

[Guest]

Anyone other than a low rep backup should be unhappy at missing out in the European squad, even if the reason is due to being unable to comply with the homegrown rules as that's not their fault or concern.

[enigmatic]

Thought I'd hijack this thread to moan about another issue, players not complaining and there being little way to proactively address the issue.

So for example I have an excellent winger coming towards the last 12 months of his contract. He loves the club, loves me, but still wants to move to a club in a better league. Which is reasonable enough: even though second in the Eredivisie doesn't make us minnows, he's capable of playing for a really big club and getting paid more.... but he's satisfied enough not to come crying to me about it, which means I can't address it at all.

The odd thing is that if I was trying to persuade a player that the club was big enough for him and he wasn't already at the club, we'd get a chance to talk when he expressed his doubts about signing for us (futile though it usually is). But if he's at my club, loves me and is largely OK, I don't get that opportunity to persuade him when his agent explains he doesn't want to sign a new contract? Surely that should be an option, especially for players with slight concerns that haven't been discussed recently rather than serial sulkers who are insistent on leaving.

Similarly, if he was unprofessional and angry and coming to me demanding a move, I'd get a chance to try to persuade him to stay (or at least a clear indication that he's not going to change his mind in the near future so I may as well cash in, which probably is my best option). Surely there should be some way of me proactively kicking off that conversation if he's just hinting his long term plans or concerns involve a move?

It'd be nice if there was more functionality for proactively building relationships with players that weren't upset (yet) too, like telling players how crucial they were to the club's long term ambitions, that one day they'd be a club icon/captain, that they could win trophies, that this was the right club for them because it could guarantee regular football etc.

(with the obvious potential to backfire and have the player ask for a pay rise, get complacent or demand more starts as a result)

[Guest]

Good post & you've touched on aspects that do need improvement, if you have an save example it is worth posting about them in the bugs forum along with your thoughts on a better approach. I know that the coding team that covers this area are keen to get more ideas on this aspect of the game.

Take a look at the others gameplay issues for a few examples that I've posted about.

[tiago_wakabayashi]

Not reduce but improve it, there are players that doesn't have so status in team and is making other players support him in his crying, is ridiculous

[scott MUFC]

its backups and young players that moan, its not the fact they moan its the fact that the reason given isn't the one they want to hear for the most part.

I tell them its because I'm restricted.. which is correct, they moan some more, its rare that answer is accepted.

how is it moaning? I haven't moaned I have explained a situation that happens, and brought it up because now no one has moaned despite me registering my club world championship squad (players not registered in this have moaned about other registrations earlier)

the second point isn't registration issue, its just a player who is unhappy about playing time from the back end of last season, there a re a few reasons players are not getting time. and its usually from injury and are not match fit.

[BoxToBox]

To be fair, you should be squad building in such a way that there are few if any of your first team squad excluded from registration. I can see situations where you may have to leave out one or two, but if it's a consistent problem and with more than a few players, you're likely stockpiling way too many players.

[scott MUFC]

its backups and young players that moan, its not the fact they moan its the fact that the reason given isn't the one they want to hear for the most part.

I tell them its because I'm restricted.. which is correct, they moan some more, its rare that answer is accepted.

I dont have masses and masses of players, its 1 or 2 backups that kick up the fuss.

how is it moaning? I haven't moaned I have explained a situation that happens, and brought it up because now no one has moaned despite me registering my club world championship squad (players not registered have moaned about other registrations earlier)

the second point isn't registration issue, its just that a player had needs to leave for first team football in long term plans, that has gone now.

the issue is not player Management its the players who complain, and carry on when given the truth, or a proper explanation.

now.. he thinks Juventus are a bigger club

there have been no bids, no nothing, not even any press things, just a WNT by his name.

I think it is reasonable for me to say wait for a bid, because then what.. there is no bid and I get more complaining that they didn't get sold

[Guest]

Six conversation in a little over a year, are they all chats about player concerns? If they are it does suggest that you might be making fundamental mistakes in your squad management & how you approach player interactions because that's a lot for a single player.

In that conversation he's seeking your agreement to let him talk (agree a transfer fee) with Juventus should they make an offer, seem reasonable enough to me.

[scott MUFC]

no he isn't a backup, some of those conversations have been about other things such as good performances and whatnot, at that moment he was completely happy, and there was no indicator until the big green WNT box, I'm being more then reasonable.

no he isn't backup, he is first team, only time he doesn't start is when I rotate.

[Guest]

I noticed the squad status after posting so tried to ninja an edit.

[eximius-vir]

Wow this is some thread.

I think the level of complaints from players should stay the same, the dialogue needs refreshing though.

I think the most important change though is that the level of complaints a player gets should be the same as the AI teams.

I have only once successfully made a player unhappy at another team, that was Gotze who had 9 sub appearances in 25 matches and wanted more football. I managed to get him for just £17m.

I tried to do the same with Kroos who had made two appearances by January in the saves second season. Real had bought Hamsik but wanted £72m for and Kroos and wouldn't budge! Kroos didn't ask to leave and at no stage in the season did he become unhappy even though he played just 6 games. He went to Arsenal for £29m at the end of the season

[scott MUFC]

another player wanted to join Juve.. I asked him what it would take to stay, that works.

oh and Schiderlin is the club captain

I wont start agreeing to allow players I want to keep talking to other clubs just because someone bids, I want a bid that's reasonable first.

[Guest]

You don't need to agree, you can tell them if an acceptable bid is made you'll accept one or you can assert your authority by telling them their going nowhere but accept that in doing so you risk a dressing room conflict that tends to only be kept under control & eventually reversed by winning matches.

A key part in managing a squad of players is in identifying potential trouble makers, assessing how important or irreplaceable they are & then set about weeding out the players who are more trouble than they are worth while keeping the valuable but potentially troublesome players under control.

[scott MUFC]

yea, and its all sorted now, I have done that before and players go, why have you not accepted a bid? meaning more problems then its worth.

the system needs to be less irritating I had to tell players who were unhappy at the treatment why in a meeting, and they understood perfectly well when I told them he is important to the team, I dont have an option to say this at all how I wish it to be said.

oh and as I suspected, no actual interest