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magicmastermind124

[FM2016] FMUpdates EEE - England, Enhanced, Expanded - 9.0.2 Out Now

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If you could all follow SI's instructions, that may point us to a fix for the release. It's odd because in my tests there's been no crash dump or complete crash of any kind.

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There are some reports about saved games crashing on certain dates. It's possible that there is a connection between crashes and some changes in this database. I think it's worth for the coders to look at crash reports and saved games.

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Does every team below con south/north with this update now only have the ability to offer non-contract to players? Ive started two games so far and both teams I chose had non contracts only. I've previously been using a similar download and before with most teams, you could offer either non contract or part time contracts to players obviously with limited squad status options. Having only non contract available to offer makes it rather annoying!

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I don't want to get people's hopes up, but there is a possibility that the problem or a problem has been fixed.

I think there was a small update today, and now my game is advancing beyond a point where it was continually crashing.

This happened after I verified the integrity of my game cache, and then Steam downloaded a small file.

I'll admit I holidayed the first few days, but I haven't even been able to do that before.

if anybody who has had lots of crashes wants to give it another go, just for the hell of it, then maybe we'll be able to tell how real this fix is.

I've played for about 2 weeks now, and believe me, the game didn't advance that far without a crash before.

Lots of people without this database were having crashes, so I suspect that it was always the game that needed to be mended, and not the EEE database.

Again, let's not get our hopes up. Just give it a go and see what happens.

----------------------------UPDATE - I experienced another (recurring on same date) crash. Like my last major crash, it happened immediately (the day before) before an FA Trophy tie. I was able to holiday through it to the day of the match.

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There was a small game update some days ago, but without any changes to the game code, just some license updates.

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No. I'm not talking about 16.3.1.

Actually it may be that the key is to holiday indefinitely (and then hit the return from holiday on the match day) rather than select 'holiday until next match'.

Something definitely downloaded when I verified the cache, and I only re-downloaded the game a couple of days ago.

Anyway i am experiencing a lot less craches now. Maybe it's a fluke. If others experience crashes as before, then maybe the different way of holidaying through the crashes may be a workaround.

magicmastermind et al put a lot of work into this, so I'm just trying to identify a pattern.

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Also struggled with crashes before tonight, with the EEE file. Crashed some dates every time.

Holiday helped sometimes. One save i gave up.

I didnt play for a while before the EEE release, so not sure if the errors where related or how long I might have had them.

Anyway, played 3-4 hours tonight with no crashing. Did get an update to FM last night i think.

I suspect that somehow might have fixed it.

I did not verify the cache.

Hopefully its "fixed". :)

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There have been no changes to the FM code in the 16.3.1 update so any crash trigger will still be in there, can anyone who is experiencing this crash add save examples to bug thread that vikeologist has created. The more examples SI have the greater chance that they'll be able to locate the cause & a possible change that needs to be made to the EEE update file.

Magic, it might be worth uploading a copy of your master file to SI's ftp server & adding a post to the bug thread with any info you've been able to get from other users of the file.

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Could it be down to the amount of changes? Iv'e used other LL databases and had no crashes, But this one i'm having rotten luck with! (No dig at the creators there, Your hard work is appreaciated)

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The number of changes is unlikely to be the cause, of course more changes increases the risk of a single input error causing an unexpected issue & as more people use the file the liklihood of that error triggering a crash increases.

This is the same issue SI face when releasing FM, it's impossible to catch every problem during testing & until the game or in this case a custom file is released to the public you can never be 100% sure that it is free issues.

Edit: I've asked if the cause of this issue can be disclosed so that the EEE team can consider if they can make changes to the file to avoid the crash trigger.

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In addition to research/data gathering concerns, as previously stated we don't feel that FM can properly simulate the game at this level. Just look at the CA/PA & reputation models for starters. To be honest it struggles alot with some aspects of level 8 and 9 so any lower would be less enjoyable and impossible to produce to the same standard we want for EEE.

I would also like to remind that EEE not only extends how low in the English leagues you can go, but it enhances the professional leagues gameplay & data too. For all FMers who dream to take their team from lower league obscurity to the top, you will eventually end up playing a more traditional FM save (depending on your managerial skill of course). :pI would actually recommend using our file even if you don't play the lower leagues, you will still see benefits; obviously nothing compared to actually playing in the lower leagues but some.

If you want to play 'X' number of seasons on repeat until you reach levels 8 or 9 then you are free to do so, but it won't be with EEE. We prefer to enhance the lower leagues that everyone should remember already are an added joy to play down to when compared to vanilla FM; than offer a basic, skeleton version.

@Niall76 - There is nothing stopping you adding West Everton Xaviers via the editor or the in-game create a club feature. (Kudos to the people who set up the club cos it's a fantastic club name. Very original).

Thanks very much for explaining, Daniel.

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Reply from Max Clayton-Robb has confirmed that the reported crash is not linked to the EEE file, if people encounter any crashes they should still log these with SI.

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Reply from Max Clayton-Robb has confirmed that the reported crash is not linked to the EEE file, if people encounter any crashes they should still log these with SI.

Do we know what it may be linked to at all? Database size seems a possibility given that this file was cause users to load down to level 9 on computers where they may normally just load e.g. England to 6.

Funnily enough I've had a few crashes on a save with Truro from before this came out, but with some of my own edits applied. I'm a total amatuer so I blamed it on either that or overloading the database, but perhaps it's a similar issue.

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I am suffering crash dumps in my save, four in one game week.

I have made some database changes to EEE, but these are all short name changes and purely cosmetic. I have not used any other add ons.

I have loaded England to level 9 with EEE plus all of Scotland and Wales playable and Ireland and Northern Ireland view only.

I am using a large database with all players from England, Scotland and Wales and all current international players from around the world.

The crash dumps happened on 29 Sep, 30 Sep and twice on 3 Oct.

A holiday test I have started using the same set up with the exception of not including level 9 has reached November with no crash dumps.

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I am suffering crash dumps in my save, four in one game week.

I have made some database changes to EEE, but these are all short name changes and purely cosmetic. I have not used any other add ons.

I have loaded England to level 9 with EEE plus all of Scotland and Wales playable and Ireland and Northern Ireland view only.

I am using a large database with all players from England, Scotland and Wales and all current international players from around the world.

The crash dumps happened on 29 Sep, 30 Sep and twice on 3 Oct.

A holiday test I have started using the same set up with the exception of not including level 9 has reached November with no crash dumps.

I've made a few database changes too with adding a team to Spartan South Midlands and removing Holmer Green. Have edited all the fixture rules though so it includes my created team instead and also been able to play a couple of league games with it

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Do we know what it may be linked to at all? Database size seems a possibility given that this file was cause users to load down to level 9 on computers where they may normally just load e.g. England to 6.

Funnily enough I've had a few crashes on a save with Truro from before this came out, but with some of my own edits applied. I'm a total amatuer so I blamed it on either that or overloading the database, but perhaps it's a similar issue.

Database size is unlikely to ever cause a crash, that would just cause a memory shutdown & SI have put in place a number of hard coded restrictions to prevent users from creating a player database that is too big for their available memory.

I am suffering crash dumps in my save, four in one game week.

I have made some database changes to EEE, but these are all short name changes and purely cosmetic. I have not used any other add ons.

I have loaded England to level 9 with EEE plus all of Scotland and Wales playable and Ireland and Northern Ireland view only.

I am using a large database with all players from England, Scotland and Wales and all current international players from around the world.

The crash dumps happened on 29 Sep, 30 Sep and twice on 3 Oct.

A holiday test I have started using the same set up with the exception of not including level 9 has reached November with no crash dumps.

I might download the file to see if I get any crash event & maybe attempt to hypnosis a possible cause.

Edit: Crashed while creating the game, I do have the susie real name fixes & related edt/inc files installed so I'll run the EEE on my other machine with a clean install of FM16, on the new game that crashed during setup I did not have the susie real name files selected, it was just the EEE file.

The was no crash during setup when I included the susie files on the selected edits nor was there a crash when I repeated the EEE only setup, starting to think that there is an issue with the EEE but that it's deeply buried in the file to the point that the trigger appears inconsistent & unrelated.

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Spurs08, despite my previous post saying the database size does not cause crashes it might actually be the case with my crash during setup, if I select a small db with add platers to playable teams selected FM will crash during the setup process, just trying medium & large to see what happens.

Game setup works fine when using the advanced option to add in players based in England which means I might have a handle on one factor that is causing games to crash.

Edit: No crash when using medium or large db options on my systems, both win10 64bit.

Will now soak a save started with a medium db & add players to playable teams selected.

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That's pure speculation, speaking as a former SI employee there does not appear to be any more crash events than previous versions & as ever a fair share of those are down to issues with the user's setup. Personally other than the startup crash I've noted above the only other one I've had on FM15 was caused by running a beta graphics driver.

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This is reply from Duncan Greenwood from the thread mentioned above:

"Sorry to see you've been getting crash dumps but thanks for uploading it. I've taken a look and it's something we are aware of and looking to address in the future. Unfortunately that save is pretty much useless until we update the game with a fix for this issue but you should be able to play other save games without running into the same problem. "

This is not speculation.

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This is reply from Duncan Greenwood from the thread mentioned above:

"Sorry to see you've been getting crash dumps but thanks for uploading it. I've taken a look and it's something we are aware of and looking to address in the future. Unfortunately that save is pretty much useless until we update the game with a fix for this issue but you should be able to play other save games without running into the same problem. "

This is not speculation.

Sounds hopeful, it'd be amazing if we get a fix because there's clearly been a huge amount of amazing work to create a file that sadly just isn't really playable for most of us at the moment :(

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This is reply from Duncan Greenwood from the thread mentioned above:

"Sorry to see you've been getting crash dumps but thanks for uploading it. I've taken a look and it's something we are aware of and looking to address in the future. Unfortunately that save is pretty much useless until we update the game with a fix for this issue but you should be able to play other save games without running into the same problem. "

This is not speculation.

Sorry I wasn't clear with my reply & I may have incorrectly inferred that you were stating the game is fundmentally broken.

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I've had a crash dump on the 9th of September (same day as the FA Vase First Qualifying round), I've managed to load it up again & holiday past it though

Gonna make sure I save regularly in case it happens again

*EDIT*

Had another crash dump on the 12th of September, but managed to holiday through it again

I've got a copy of the save uploaded to the FTP; what thread(s) are best to post it in?

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Hi ! First, thank you for your fantastic job and excuse me for my poor english...

I have change some information with the Pregame editor but now, I can't run a new carreer :

mini_840123201604161831191.jpg

Can anybody help me ?

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Hi ! First, thank you for your fantastic job and excuse me for my poor english...

I have change some information with the Pregame editor but now, I can't run a new carreer[/url]

Can anybody help me ?

You did not verify the file after you made the changes. But you can still start a save. A non verified editor file will always start at the lowest league level.

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2. It actually happens from game start, if you pick the earliest start date. It is cosmetic and exists until the league fixtures are announced.
I was considering using this file & have been running on a long soak to make sure that I have none of the crash issues, all good on that front, however the blank league tables is an annoying aspect & one that will stop me for using this custom file so I was wondering if there is a specific technical reason why you've taken the choice of competitions being drawn long after season update day?

If I remove the draw dates in the editor did your testing show that it causes issues with scheduling & what were they?

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I was considering using this file & have been running on a long soak to make sure that I have none of the crash issues, all good on that front, however the blank league tables is an annoying aspect & one that will stop me for using this custom file so I was wondering if there is a specific technical reason why you've taken the choice of competitions being drawn long after season update day?

If I remove the draw dates in the editor did your testing show that it causes issues with scheduling & what were they?

The reason they were included is that in real life, the league fixtures are not announced at the stage of league reset. As previously mentioned, we've tried to make the league tables not appear in this way but this causes further issues. It is however a purely cosmetic issue and won't affect the gameplay.

If you remove the draw dates the leagues will still work. What we tried to do was use setup dates so the competition states that the competition will be setup on a certain date, thus removing the league tables until such date. While this works for the league, it has a knock on effect on many other competitions that rely on the competitions, and breaks the game.

We even tried to get the fixtures for the Football League done in this same way, but they are announced before the league reset date, and moving this date back caused a very weird error which involved the year 1899. So we decided to keep it as it is for the Football League, given the fixtures are only announced a week earlier or so.

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Cheers for the info, key part is that it prevents issues with cup competition scheduling so I understand why you kept it as is. Will probably still use the file as it does mean that youngsters released by top clubs have somewhere to go as they attempt to revive their career & I've already seen a number of Premier League & Championship rejects pitch up at club in step 3 or 4 of non-league football which could make for some interesting player career paths in a long term game.

Edit: Bugger, suffered a crash. Hoping that it reproduces as it happened at the end of the monthly incremental save cycle so I'm now running on daily incremental save intervals.

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sorry to not keep up with this thread but have one question , is the crashing issue happening for all or just a few. would like to try it out in a save and will take my chances if its not crashing for everyone.

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I've logged my CTD for SI to look into, it reproduced 4 times out of 5 & that's in addition to the 100% crash event when trying to create a game using a small database. this was running the Steam workshop file as is, no additional changes on my part.

It's not a perfect test but I've soak tested my German lower league file much farther than the EEE soak test & I have not suffered an crashes on that or any unedited games that I've soaked well into the 2020s, the EEE soak crashes in Feb 2019 & that's with or without the susie real name fix files active.

This is a provisional assessment & based on nothing more than comparing the behaviours of other soak tests that I've run but I would have to lean towards the update file being unstable, whether that's the fault of an error in the file, the FM16 code or particular machine set-ups is a question that only SI will be able to answer.

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sorry to not keep up with this thread but have one question , is the crashing issue happening for all or just a few. would like to try it out in a save and will take my chances if its not crashing for everyone.

Curious about the same thing...

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Here's a link to my detailed crash log, don't be put off by the lack of SI comment as it has been seen by the right people at SI & they're aware that unless further info is needed there is no need to post on acknowledgement for my benefit.

What I believe is crucial is that the save crashes on both my machines, I do not get a crash when repeating the steps with an unedited save or a save using my German custom league setup.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/456802-16-3-1-Crash-on-holiday-game-EEE-Update-Active

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Please start a crash log in the bugs forum, the more saves that SI have the greater the chances are that they will find the exact cause. :thup:

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I have done some holiday tests, however since I had my machine running while I was looking after my baby, I don't have save files just before some of the crashes and don't have the exact dates of some of the crashes. My baby is my life and far more important than FM and I play with and keep my eye on her rather than the game.

Some of you might tell me otherwise but stuff you. :D

Anyway, my findings might be of interest...

In all tests, EEE is active with no other add ons. England, Scotland and Wales are playable while Northern Ireland and Ireland are view only (all divisions). All current international players plus all players based in or a national of England, Scotland and Wales are added to the large 16.3.0 database giving approx 38,000 players. No other add ons or editing other than EEE and the German thing that can't be discussed are in the tests unless stated. This gives 2.5* game speed so my laptop can comfortably handle it.

My actual save crashed on 29 Sep and 30 Sep, then won't get past 3 Oct 2015 at all (crashed there three times). This is when I play a FA Trophy match and is also an FA Vase day.

Set up was Level 9 plus I edited EEE with my short name changes (cosmetic changes only). This is database editing and not an add on.

My first holiday test was Level 8 plus my short name changes. This crashed somewhere between 16 Feb 2016 and 16 Mar 2016 as the last autosave was 16 Feb.

My second holiday test was Level 9 without my short name changes. There were no crashes at all in the first two seasons. However, the FA Vase didn't complete in the second season. Eight first round matches were never played and while the competition continued, it stopped when it could not go any further in the fourth round as no matches could be played due to the problem with the first round. I ended the test as a result.

My third holiday test is Level 8 without my short name changes. I have reached March 2016 and there have been no crashes. The FA Vase appears to be running normally though I am only in the first season.

I have some theories... Some may have some truth, some may be crap...

1. The FA Vase is screwed and causing massive problems.

2. Level 9 is causing some conflict with the game, perhaps with the FA Vase and is causing massive problems.

3. Any alterations to the EEE database causes problems. Further add ons put onto a save using EEE makes it worse.

4. EEE was made using the original database and using the 16.3.0 update database with EEE causes problems.

5. A combination of some or all of the above.

So a question to all experiencing crashes... are you using EEE with the original database or the 16.3.0 update?

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I only ran it on the 16.3.0 data & was running all division from the file, I wasn't aware that it used the the default database & that does present an issue as if the only way to get it to run is with the default data it exposes users to competitom crashes & errors that are only addressed in the winter update data.

Also an interesting spot on the FA Vase, with the level of complexity that has been attempted in that comp it is possible that it's causing problems & is something I had considered but hadn't checked as I assumed it would have been thoroughly tested. Will take a look at my crashing save before I leave for work in the morning.

Good work, Simon.

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Just checked & the FA VAse is screwed on my save, current date is 31/01/19 & the last FA Vase match was match was 01/02/17 & it all started to go wrong when 2nd round matches in the 2016/17 season were drawn by not scheduled.

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It might be unrelated, but I am running a game with another file with many many edits (we're talking 130k) - before 13.3 no one complained of crashes. Now it crashes on the 1st of April 2018, no matter what I do. I will open a thread later for this, but it might be the sheer size of the files that might cause problems later down the road.

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All credit for the effort of the small team in undertaking conplex custom edit but I do think there could be a combination of biting off more than they could chew & the FM code base not being able to cope with the complexity & volume of some lower league competitions.

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I've be informed by the tech team that my crash is linked to an error flag in loan rules, they've not traced which rule is at fault & I will see if I can find the error in the rule group, unfortunately I've just taken in some contract work to keep me busy for a month so it might take some time before I can spot the error.

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Just noticed, after starting a save with another club, that AFC Croydon Athletic have no ground in your database.

I dont know if it is a lonely mistake that it has not been added, but perhaps it should be checked that all teams have a ground.

I can imagine that the game will decide to build a new ground, and giving an unfair advantage maybe then, in a possible save...

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Just checked the file & the available actions in game, a number if changes have been made to the SI coded & researched leagues which strikes me as risk that was not needed, the loan rules now permit international loans to end outside of a valid international window & I can see how this might clash with rule codes of other nations that have not been adjusted to match the changes made for English clubs.

Magicmastermind, I would recommend that you should leave the default leagues alone other than cosmetic changes or adding on real fixtures & at the very least do not change the rule groups for those divisions unless you can take the time to make the same change for every other nation to minimise the risk of a rule group conflict.

Will attempt to remove the transfer rules & reset the default leagues to use the official rule groups & then see how if a soak can run without crashing.

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Just checked the file & the available actions in game, a number if changes have been made to the SI coded & researched leagues which strikes me as risk that was not needed, the loan rules now permit international loans to end outside of a valid international window & I can see how this might clash with rule codes of other nations that have not been adjusted to match the changes made for English clubs.

Magicmastermind, I would recommend that you should leave the default leagues alone other than cosmetic changes or adding on real fixtures & at the very least do not change the rule groups for those divisions unless you can take the time to make the same change for every other nation to minimise the risk of a rule group conflict.

Will attempt to remove the transfer rules & reset the default leagues to use the official rule groups & then see how if a soak can run without crashing.

We will check the rules as there should only be additions to them and not changes.

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Just noticed, after starting a save with another club, that AFC Croydon Athletic have no ground in your database.

I dont know if it is a lonely mistake that it has not been added, but perhaps it should be checked that all teams have a ground.

I can imagine that the game will decide to build a new ground, and giving an unfair advantage maybe then, in a possible save...

We are aware of lots of data issues like this which do need sorting out. We just haven't got round to them yet.

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We are aware of lots of data issues like this which do need sorting out. We just haven't got round to them yet.

Actually I think that SI should have created the ground. Because the ground is not really new - it must have been in the game when the previous incarnation (Croydon Athletic) played a single season in the Isthmian League Premier Division.

So I dont get why it has been deleted - also taking into consideration that the new fan-owned club got formed in 2012...

But I can check the clubs and make a list of missing grounds unless you already got it written down.

Is it possible to add rivalries in the advanced editor too? (and those kinds of things)

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The missing grounds (including those present in game but not linked to teams) have been identified and will hopefully be incorporated at some point in the near future :)

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The missing grounds (including those present in game but not linked to teams) have been identified and will hopefully be incorporated at some point in the near future :)

That sounds good.

Do you have grounds under construction in mind?

Fx. Fisher FC's new Salter Road Ground? Last time I read something about it, apparently opening the 23rd of April this year - first game.

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That sounds good.

Do you have grounds under construction in mind?

Fx. Fisher FC's new Salter Road Ground? Last time I read something about it, apparently opening the 23rd of April this year - first game.

Yes. A whole raft of stadium moves, builds etc are planned to be included at some point. As well as fleshing out the rivalries (which you asked about in another post slightly further up).

I hope you have noticed the whole raft of derbies that are in the file as well.

With regards to absence of the ground from the SI db, I would expect to be present too (along with all the missing stadiums at level 9)

There is much more to come in terms of content for EEE, it is just our priority right now is to get the basic structure correct and stable. Then we can focus on the details.

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Yes. A whole raft of stadium moves, builds etc are planned to be included at some point. As well as fleshing out the rivalries (which you asked about in another post slightly further up).

I hope you have noticed the whole raft of derbies that are in the file as well.

With regards to absence of the ground from the SI db, I would expect to be present too (along with all the missing stadiums at level 9)

There is much more to come in terms of content for EEE, it is just our priority right now is to get the basic structure correct and stable. Then we can focus on the details.

That makes sense. Especially happy for the last sentence.

Regarding small rivalries and ground moves it is my opinion SI should have that covered.

But it is a big game, and there are not enough hours in a day.

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