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FM16 tactics screen discussion


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I bet that shirts will be back on FM17 and have no doubt about it. The question is, whether is it worth to stand by your decision for this version specifically, despite the discontent of community? I mean, we all know how this will end... It wasn't the best decision and it will be reverted sooner or later. No offence to SI, but c'mon... Shirts are one of the FM's "trademarks". Loosing them is like FM is loosing part of it's identity.

They are still shirts, just zoomed in shirts. "The community" has not even used it yet, so the discontent by a few is based purely on the appearance.

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Does it now? Which ones exactly?

fm16_tactics_screen_thumb_2.jpg

For me, the shirt doesn't even have to be on there, my issue is that the box is too ugly & garish. Knocking back the opacity, and removing the solid keyline would make it less garish for a simple tweak.

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I wasn't amazed with tactic screen presented earlier this week. Yesterday I watched Miles video and I found it quite interesting. I understand and appreciate the concept, however something he said just wasn't right :) "We changed from shirts to boxes because we needed extra space for extra functionality". . I have come up with very quick mockup (2 hours in Photoshop/Illustrator), hopefully to demonstrate that you can still incorporate shirts within tactic screen. No offence, but these boxes are just awful, especially fading out black stripes...bleh. So to keep it short, in bullet points :)

  • I kept exact dimensions of your boxes
  • Replaced poor grapefruit slice with easy to understand, clear to read bar
  • Left side of the number - space reserved for icons (yellow cards, injury)
  • Bottom part of the box - I feel distinction between position and role should not be presented by hyphen. I came up with slightly lighter background - Easier on the eyes, clearer.
  • I tried not to mess with colours too much, although I think chosen colours for goalkeeper, defence, midfield, attack (bottom part of the box) are unfortunate, especially midfield and attack (dull grey and washed out purple)
  • I noticed pitch dimensions are out of proportions, so I placed proportional pitch in. Not the greatest image, I know. I just copy-pasted from Google search, serves the purpose.
  • I am not sure about divider between player name and position/role. It is green bar for all players except Nightingale and Barcham - sort of yellowish for these two. What does it represent exactly?

Obviously it is just a very quick mockup, not finished work by any means. Hope it helps somebody in SI creative department :) Looking forward to FM16!

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup.jpg

Credit to you for taking the time to provide an alternative, however unfortunately that design wouldn't work in reality.

The kits decrease in width when there is 5 players in a line, this would leave insufficient space for the role suitability bar. Making that bar small enough to fit in would cause it to be very hard to read and compare, which considering the importance of it isn't an option.

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I prefer the Vpaulus version.

As in terms of usability, well all the good things Miles presented can work with Vpaulus mockup, even if some adaptation is needed. Anyway, if the tactic screen remains the same, as Miles said so, I guess I will keep an eye on the skins this year.

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For me, the shirt doesn't even have to be on there, my issue is that the box is too ugly & garish. Knocking back the opacity, and removing the solid keyline would make it less garish for a simple tweak.

I'd like that, wonder if it would make it slightly hard to read though. SI have actively been trying to make the interface easier to read for the visually impaired so, making things smaller/translucent can have a negative impact on that

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I think you're misinterpreting the tone. None of the responses are 'furious'. They simply disagree with others. I don't see any edited posts and the only ones that were deleted were ones that was completely non-constructive.

One thing I did like about your representation was that the name was more distinguished, as if it's a different, clickable item (which it is) and both visually and functionally, that seems better to me.

I edited out line about Miles which wasn't on as per house rules, instead of removing the entire post.

Think he has misinterpreted the tone. No one has faulted the effort, just disagreed

Offsetting the shirts would be an issue, because it would interfere particularly when people use asymmetric shapes

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Thanks everybody for constructive feedback! Again very quickly (posting from work) I came up with updated player box look, based on your suggestions and comments. It is only a sketch, will polish it later on. In the evening, I will create mockup with 5 players in midfield, let's see how it works. Until then, have a look and share you opinion! Pie Chart from hell returns, although I still think, it is ugliest way to present data.

player_mockup_v3.jpg

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Thanks everybody for constructive feedback! Again very quickly (posting from work) I came up with updated player box look, based on your suggestions and comments. It is only a sketch, will polish it later on. In the evening, I will create mockup with 5 players in midfield, let's see how it works. Until then, have a look and share you opinion! Pie Chart from hell returns, although I still think, it is ugliest way to present data.

player_mockup_v3.jpg

The suitability wheel should be on a scale of 1-10 btw.

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They are still shirts, just zoomed in shirts. "The community" has not even used it yet, so the discontent by a few is based purely on the appearance.

The appearance is the problem most people have with it - it looks *terrible*. From the video Miles posted, it looks like it'll work quite well, but I spend a fair amount of time looking at the tactics screen and right now that's going to pain my eyes.

I wasn't amazed with tactic screen presented earlier this week. Yesterday I watched Miles video and I found it quite interesting. I understand and appreciate the concept, however something he said just wasn't right :) "We changed from shirts to boxes because we needed extra space for extra functionality". . I have come up with very quick mockup (2 hours in Photoshop/Illustrator), hopefully to demonstrate that you can still incorporate shirts within tactic screen. No offence, but these boxes are just awful, especially fading out black stripes...bleh. So to keep it short, in bullet points :)

  • I kept exact dimensions of your boxes
  • Replaced poor grapefruit slice with easy to understand, clear to read bar
  • Left side of the number - space reserved for icons (yellow cards, injury)
  • Bottom part of the box - I feel distinction between position and role should not be presented by hyphen. I came up with slightly lighter background - Easier on the eyes, clearer.
  • I tried not to mess with colours too much, although I think chosen colours for goalkeeper, defence, midfield, attack (bottom part of the box) are unfortunate, especially midfield and attack (dull grey and washed out purple)
  • I noticed pitch dimensions are out of proportions, so I placed proportional pitch in. Not the greatest image, I know. I just copy-pasted from Google search, serves the purpose.
  • I am not sure about divider between player name and position/role. It is green bar for all players except Nightingale and Barcham - sort of yellowish for these two. What does it represent exactly?

Obviously it is just a very quick mockup, not finished work by any means. Hope it helps somebody in SI creative department :) Looking forward to FM16!

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup.jpg

This looks fantastic and fixes every problem I have with the current setup (ie: that it's ugly as sin). SI, please consider something like this instead of what you currently have.

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Miles has said on Twitter that other designs were tried and tested and didn't have the same functionality as they are able to get with this design.

He also said that it's going to stay this way.

Personally, I like the look of the second option vpaulus posted, but it isn't a big issue as long as I can do what is needed on the tactics screen. For that, we'd need to wait until the Beta/Demo. I'm also interested to see what the skinners come up with.

I was happy with the video Miles posted on Friday and it looks better than the very low res pic that we saw earlier.

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I'm also interested to see what the skinners come up with.

It would be more than a slight embarrassment to SI if a skinner came up with a fully functioning alternative within days, given the comments from Miles about functionality.

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It would be more than a slight embarrassment to SI if a skinner came up with a fully functioning alternative within days, given the comments from Miles about functionality.

Yeah, but that's pure speculation. We don't know anything about the screen yet, so it's difficult to say what will be customisable and what won't.

The current design will obviously work across all platforms at all resolutions. We may see better looking ones, but restricted to higher resolutions only.

Bottom line is that it's far too early to speculate. There's a lot of functionality and it would be great to try it out first.

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It would be more than a slight embarrassment to SI if a skinner came up with a fully functioning alternative within days, given the comments from Miles about functionality.

Or they'll just shrug and continue given their stance on community involvement. It may still not function in the way that they personally wanted it to, but still be good enough for users. Great if so. I doubt they'll lose much sleep over it.

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No, I agree with that, my point was more about the PR involved regarding their steadfast assertion that this was the ONLY way the tactics screen could possibly look whilst maintaining the same functionality. It might have been better to say they trialled a number of designs, and this was the one they thought worked the best, rather than claim that all other designs were flat out useless. That would then leave the door open for a skinner/modder to make a better design whilst the company would retain some dignity on the issue.

But as you said, it's all speculation.

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Thanks everybody for constructive feedback! Again very quickly (posting from work) I came up with updated player box look, based on your suggestions and comments. It is only a sketch, will polish it later on. In the evening, I will create mockup with 5 players in midfield, let's see how it works. Until then, have a look and share you opinion! Pie Chart from hell returns, although I still think, it is ugliest way to present data.

player_mockup_v3.jpg

Oh, vpaulus. B is absolutely beautiful. :)

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Yeah, but that's pure speculation. We don't know anything about the screen yet, so it's difficult to say what will be customisable and what won't.

The current design will obviously work across all platforms at all resolutions. We may see better looking ones, but restricted to higher resolutions only.

Bottom line is that it's far too early to speculate. There's a lot of functionality and it would be great to try it out first.

Bitter experience has shown me this is very, very true.

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Ok everybody, so I had couple of hours today and based on your feedback, I created 3 more versions to consider:

Version A

After all been said, I agree this is not going to work. Here it is nevertheless, for comparison purposes.

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_A.jpg

Version B

Shirt in central position, damn pie chart returns as it seems this is the element which is going to stay anyway. I polished the chart a bit, so it doesn't remind us 1970's sci-fi movies :) 4 and 5 players in midfield to check how it works.

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_B.jpg

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_B5.jpg

Version C

More or less the same idea like Version B but back of the shirt. 4 and 5 players in midfield to check how it works.

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_C.jpg

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_C5.jpg

Version D

Box returneth!!! Basically copy of SI design and functionality, refreshed :) 4 and 5 players in midfield to check how it works.

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_D.jpg

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_D5.jpg

Comparison screen

Quick preview of all 3 styles.

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_3versions.jpg

Hope it serves the purpose better now, remember: nothing is impossible in design you just need to squeeze it a bit harder. Looking forward to your feedback!

  • Barcham should be faded out in Version C (4 players in midfield), sorry about it.
  • Quality of the screens isn't the best, apparently host is reducing size automatically.

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This looks great. Given SI have said they tried this sort of design, but couldn't make it work, I'd be interested to know why not? I know it's just a screenshot, but all the functionality looks the same as what's been done. It's not a major issue, as we'll get used to the actual design in time, and I've no doubt skinners will improve it, I just find the flat out denial that anything else could work by SI a bit strange.

RziWMV4.png

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the pitch, shirts, role/duty selectors; just wow - everything looks very smooth vpaulus, good job mate :) By the way version B is my favorite by far ;)I hope you or any other skinner who inspires from your designs will make a custom skins as soon as possible. Would be a dream to have a tactics screen such as yours! :cool:

Just a humble opinion:

when you put 5 players in the midfielder, shirts of midfielders look smaller than forwards or defenders. Which does not make sense too much. Two solutions:

1- Make all shirts in the size of when 5 players put in the same position by default; so number of players in the same position would not affect

2- Auto resize them to make all shirts' sizes equal.

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the pitch, shirts, role/duty selectors; just wow - everything looks very smooth vpaulus, good job mate :) By the way version B is my favorite by far ;)I hope you or any other skinner who inspires from your designs will make a custom skins as soon as possible. Would be a dream to have a tactics screen such as yours! :cool:

Just a humble opinion:

when you put 5 players in the midfielder, shirts of midfielders look smaller than forwards or defenders. Which does not make sense too much. Two solutions:

1- Make all shirts in the size of when 5 players put in the same position by default; so number of players in the same position would not affect

2- Auto resize them to make all shirts' sizes equal.

Thanks a lot mate. Should be all sorted now :)

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Those designs are nice :thup: With D probably my preferred one.

The key for me is not the square or shirt at all, I don't really care about that. My reason for preferring the look of your mock-ups is simply the way the Role and Duty at the bottom of each player compare with the early Beta, Work In Progress FM16 screenshot. It is clearer to my eyes in your examples than that early Beta image.

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This looks great. Given SI have said they tried this sort of design, but couldn't make it work, I'd be interested to know why not? I know it's just a screenshot, but all the functionality looks the same as what's been done. It's not a major issue, as we'll get used to the actual design in time, and I've no doubt skinners will improve it, I just find the flat out denial that anything else could work by SI a bit strange.

We won't know. No one has actually used it yet.

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Those designs are nice :thup: With D probably my preferred one.

The key for me is not the square or shirt at all, I don't really care about that. My reason for preferring the look of your mock-ups is simply the way the Role and Duty at the bottom of each player compare with the early Beta, Work In Progress FM16 screenshot. It is clearer to my eyes in your examples than that early Beta image.

Thank you. I understand your point, however no harm done if it looks slicker, I think :) I agree - bottom part at the moment is hard to read and hyphen separating Role and Duty is just no-go in my opinion.

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Those designs are nice :thup: With D probably my preferred one.

The key for me is not the square or shirt at all, I don't really care about that. My reason for preferring the look of your mock-ups is simply the way the Role and Duty at the bottom of each player compare with the early Beta, Work In Progress FM16 screenshot. It is clearer to my eyes in your examples than that early Beta image.

Yep, thats easily what stands out for me. The rest I could give or take. The colours look washed out in the beta version

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The number is on the wrong side of the shirt (or the collar has been stitched badly - damned sweatshop!) ;)

I wasn't paying attention. I was totally in love with his design and acted appropriately. I too would prefer the squad numbers to be assigned on the back of the shirts. However, I have to say, that in this instance, I wouldn't really care if that is how the tactic screen would look. Aesthetics are so important. I prefer the colour over the dull white, but I suppose we can just download kits created by other artists or create our own kits anyway. Hopefully, it is customizable. Having said that, it still depends on what SI decides to release.

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if those names could somehow fit the back of the shirts that would be the ultimate step. great work vpaulus.

obvious by my above suggestion, i have no idea about design, but i'll ask anyway... is there any particular reason the pitch couldn't be a bit wider to better sute 5 men in line?!? it would take the space away from the left side panel but great and functional design from SI already provides a button to completely reveal that panel sliding it over the pitch.

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Version C is great. After seeing Miles video I cant see why it could not be done with shirts. Some opinions seem a bit biased here. Maybe there is some functionality we are not aware of but seeing the video there isn't a clear reason why it could not be implemented.

To all the comments about "it has been tried",well it doesn't mean it cant be done still, maybe there wasn't time, the light bulb finally worked after tons of "attempts" maybe for FM17 with more time it can be done. Too easy just to say it has been tried and it CANT be done.

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Version C is great. After seeing Miles video I cant see why it could not be done with shirts. Some opinions seem a bit biased here. Maybe there is some functionality we are not aware of but seeing the video there isn't a clear reason why it could not be implemented.

That's the exact point - we're not aware of the full functionality because we haven't actually experienced it functioning. It got better with the video Miles put up, but no-one can really form an opinion on it until you've actually used it. Aesthetics, fair enough, that can have - and has - comments on it. But functionality is still a big grey area.

To all the comments about "it has been tried",well it doesn't mean it cant be done still, maybe there wasn't time, the light bulb finally worked after tons of "attempts" maybe for FM17 with more time it can be done. Too easy just to say it has been tried and it CANT be done.

To be fair, I'll take the opinion of someone within the studio who has actually worked on this on it not being possible over someone from the community that just assumes it'll be possible. And saying "it has been tried" could easily have just been "we tried it, it didn't fit with how we wanted it to work" rather than not working at all. Nothing wrong with that.

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I bet two bucks all this talk about some extra, hidden, not yet revealed functionality which would have prevented the shirts from being kept, or a prettier alternative as shown by vpaulus used will turn out to be baseless, and there will be nothing of the sort.

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I bet two bucks all this talk about some extra, hidden, not yet revealed functionality which would have prevented the shirts from being kept, or a prettier alternative as shown by vpaulus used will turn out to be baseless, and there will be nothing of the sort.

Yep. Why make a video for the whole reason of showing why it couldn't be done with shirts, and then NOT show it? As much as I love this game, SI have never been great at UI design. Remember when they took out the sidebar, right at the time widescreen monitors became standard? Shirts will be back for FM17 for sure.

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That's the exact point - we're not aware of the full functionality because we haven't actually experienced it functioning. It got better with the video Miles put up, but no-one can really form an opinion on it until you've actually used it. Aesthetics, fair enough, that can have - and has - comments on it. But functionality is still a big grey area.

To be fair, I'll take the opinion of someone within the studio who has actually worked on this on it not being possible over someone from the community that just assumes it'll be possible. And saying "it has been tried" could easily have just been "we tried it, it didn't fit with how we wanted it to work" rather than not working at all. Nothing wrong with that.

The bold is the key point. and unless you work for SI you won't know the decision making, which makes all the second guessing and "bets" completely pointless.

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I bet two bucks all this talk about some extra, hidden, not yet revealed functionality which would have prevented the shirts from being kept, or a prettier alternative as shown by vpaulus used will turn out to be baseless, and there will be nothing of the sort.

My point exactly. As much as I would like to be proven wrong, I simply cannot imagine more "interaction points/clickable items" packed in a such small box. Only one alternative I can imagine is that "the box" somehow expands (after click) to more in depth overview area. At the moment however, it is simple container, within which we can interact (either by mouse over, left-click or right-click) with certain clickable items ( number (?), suitability pie chart, name, position/role drop down menu or a whole box itself). There is a lot of stuff packed in already.

I my opinion, graphics you hold within such a container are irrelevant, as long as you keep them distinguishable and easily clickable on tablets. This however is whole new conversion - I mean developing for PC, tablet, phone - different approach altogether.

Not to mention, if boxes are absolute necessity, why not make them prettier?

fm16_tactics_screen_mockup_D.jpg

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