Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
pukfm

FM16 - First thoughts on the early disclosures.

Recommended Posts

But i think competition might make them up the game even more.

Flawed assumption, they use to have competition and they didn't even need to up their game to see it all disappear into the mists of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flawed assumption, they use to have competition and they didn't even need to up their game to see it all disappear into the mists of time.

Hardly a flawed assumption? If they had a realistic competitor that could have a good chance of taking customers away from SI are you telling me they wouldnt try or need to up their game at all to combat this? You are basing that on previous competition and other football sims. Yes they didnt work out but who is to say the next one wouldnt work out much better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flawed assumption, they use to have competition and they didn't even need to up their game to see it all disappear into the mists of time.

There has never been a serious competitor. The closest was EA's version, which was aimed at a different demographic. This is of course partly due to the success of FM that no one wanted to intrude on its turf, but the same could have been said for SimCity and Maxis until they believed their own hype so much and destroyed their franchise. I think we can praise FM realistically without hagiography.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be waiting for news on the Editor as usual. There was a lot of discontent over the restrictions added in FM2015 that hindered content creators and I am hopeful that our feedback has been taken on board and improvements made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but who is to say the next one wouldnt work out much better?

There won't be another, certainly in my lifetime.

If you spent a lot of time around SI you'd know why complacency will never be an issue hence my presumption that even if a realistic competitor were to appear there wouldn't be (or need to be) a change in their ethos.

That doesn't mean I think they get all decisions right (e.g. marketing :D) but as far as taking the game onwards and catering for different audiences with different versions etc. I don't see that they can really be faulted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There won't be another, certainly in my lifetime.

If you spent a lot of time around SI you'd know why complacency will never be an issue hence my presumption that even if a realistic competitor were to appear there wouldn't be (or need to be) a change in their ethos.

That doesn't mean I think they get all decisions right (e.g. marketing :D) but as far as taking the game onwards and catering for different audiences with different versions etc. I don't see that they can really be faulted.

Well i dont know how old you are Kriss but unless you are pushing 90 and on borrowed time then i really think that this statement "There won't be another, certainly in my lifetime" is the flawed assumption here! But i appreciate you are more in the know how in regards to SI and what is going on etc. As i said before, for me personally on what ive seen so far of the game I dont like the direction it appears to be heading in, im very underwhelmed by the new announcements but hope to be proven wrong and it turns out great.

I will add, in fairness to SI, that i have struggled to get into FM since about 2010 and some of that is my fault, not all down to the games themselves! Ill probably give the demo ago and then judge it fairly on that before saying im not going to buy the game this year!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in a slightly different boat, due to researcher perks but at the same time I've got nothing to feel aggrieved about if I don't like a particular version. For me I've played more hours on this years FM than any others going back as far as FM2010. Steam doesn't keep track of my playtime for FM09, but that was probably the last one to be higher.

It happens an awful lot with any game now, I prefer to ignore reviews, ignore everyone else and their feedback and see what the end product is like for me personally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say one more thing though. Regardless of my opinion on this release or any other before it I am in fact incredibly grateful and thankful to SI for being the one company who has consistently brought out the best football sim out there and i have still had countless hours of fun or previous versions of this game. Ive grown up playing this game and have played it for 16 years now so dont take my comments as me being a hater, quite the opposite, i guess it is just disappointing if you dont see a game you have loved going in the direction you would prefer. But again, ill reserve proper judgement for the release of the beta as is only fair!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simply put the internet is generally full of negativity.

SI could have announced that each copy of FM16 will come with a pair of tickets to watch the club of your choice in a match of your choice & people would still moan that it wasn't a pair of season tickets.

I'll give you a pound to link me to a post of a mod on here complaining about the game or a feature of the game, whether in a constructive or otherwise manner (that isn't a rant about a match result). One would easily postulate that you can be too 'positive' about the game. Hmm?

Watching my favourite team is akin to torture anyway!! So no, I'd definitely not be happy.

The annual release isn't going to change anytime soon. It's your choice to buy every year, and £30+ is steep, so maybe buying every 2-3 versions like some do is better? If too many do that then maybe SI might change their selling strategy but I'd not hold your breath on that because p for plenty will buy every year, like me for now. It's personal choice whether £30+ every year is worth it and that's down to you, not SI.

Just go on "isthereanydeal.com" and add FM16 and it'll email you the moment it is out with any deal and voucher combination. Chances are, (even if SI says otherwise) you'll be able to pick up the game brand new for £15-20 on launch or within a month or two. Don't just look at Steam, the best deals don't go there anymore you need the Steam key from legitimate key sites.

Edit: Just had a look and it's £27 with 20% off at getgamesgo.com for example, a bit more reasonable and it isn't even out yet. Expect the rate to drop quicker once it is actually out.

Having watched the video for this, it appears to be new UI for the same old instructions as always, but you also have "Routines," which I assume lets you save a variety of set pieces to use? Again, this doesn't feel all that fresh.

Looks like a "PR" spin, just as how 'Expanded media improvements and broadsheets/tabloid differences" turned out to be absolutely sod all.

No you need to be able to actually say WHY you don't like something. Very different.

Actually, sometimes it can be difficult to explain things. Kriss threw one on me earlier; "what more do you want" and I can't really answer that because I don't know specifically what I want, I have a general idea of what I think doesn't work and what definitely needs improvement, cutting aside the PR crap, which usually doesn't always align with SI (or you lovely mods sometimes, not knocking) who will justify things working in certain ways (and that's fine), when really they are open for refinement/re-tuning to make it more organic or natural - Hilariously, something everyone seems to 'agree' on when SI *DO* ring the changes, but not at any point before hand in some cases - Player interaction and Team Talks are the biggest two in my view.

OTOH it seems some feedback doesn't get taken on board and the focus is on entertaining the more wild, outlandish complaints rather than discussing the more legitimate ones, but let's not open that can of worms.

Addendum: Here's part of the reason I didn't answer in full flow to Kriss' question - The last time I played FM15 was back in May, I stopped playing properly back in February in part because a) I've played so much and hung around the tactics forums for too long, that I find the game reasonably easy even if I'm not a tactical expert by now - It has *some* challenges obviously but not the right ones and b) Because certain things about FM15 just turned me off completely, and these forums *didn't* help with the constant 'there isn't an issue!' and I honestly felt, yeah there is actually. Amusingly, every topic I see about FM15 on other sites like Battrick or Gamefaqs or whatever usually brings up the *same* issues that were "WAD" so I'm not alone, but these people stuck it out and I didn't.

So y'know when people ask 'Well what do you want to see in FM16', permit me a bit of 'eh, dunno' as I haven't really been hammering away at 15 enough to point out in full flow all the issues I have with it - I did that before, sometimes lucidly and coherently and sometimes with unreasonable rants. ;):p

Flawed assumption, they use to have competition and they didn't even need to up their game to see it all disappear into the mists of time.

Is it really competition if the competition is backwards? SI have a good thing and I love the game, yeah shush there - in spite- of my complaints about it - I complain about it because I know it can be a lot better and I disagree with SI's method of implementing things at times. Where they do things wonderfully, I do give credit. :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

isignedupfornorealreason - Hunt3r, RTH and I have spent a good year talking about the tactical interface and where it falls down, where we'd change and also the information needed. If you can work your way through the awful search engine, you'll be able to find it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll give you a pound to link me to a post of a mod on here complaining about the game or a feature of the game, whether in a constructive or otherwise manner (that isn't a rant about a match result). One would easily postulate that you can be too 'positive' about the game. Hmm?

RTH regularly complains about the lack of analysis tools in FMC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RTH regularly complains about the lack of analysis tools in FMC.

Looking like he has his wish now though.

I might have mine in the Team instructions interface, will have to get my hands on it to know for sure though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Looking like he has his wish now though.

As do I, I agreed with him completely.

I also wanted something akin to the club creator, so that's massively good too.

I might have mine in the Team instructions interface, will have to get my hands on it to know for sure though

Here's hoping for you, it does look very good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, looking for the list of the game features the one that jumps as my favorite is the create your own club mode. Will be looking forward for that one.

On the things i was expecting to find and didn't, the transfer system was the one i was expecting some new features. The somehow lack of bids for some players that would have in normal circumstances some market could be solved by the implementation of a "ask agent to find bids for a player for a % of the total value" option. Considering that in real life that's what happens in most cases, i was expecting something like that to be implemented already.

In general i tend to agree that the price of the game might be too high this days. I do understand that making a game like this every year has it's costs and, because of that, the price might be already on the lowest possible, but 60 euros for a game that doesn't bring that much new content to the last years version might be too much, specially for some of the countries that are having some serious financial issues and with really high unemployment rates.

Will be looking forward for more info on the game tho. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In general i tend to agree that the price of the game might be too high this days.

I agree with those who say the price is too high.

The game does not advance enough between versions, and so there is little incentive to buy the game every year even for diehard fans.

I am pretty sure that the vast majority of their sales come from steam sales. Maybe if the price was a bit more realistic people wouldn't be waiting for a sale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3d managers, Analysis tools, Create a club were in fifa manager probably 10 years ago. Where is the progress?

Here is a list of features that were in management games in the last 15 years and we still don't see them in FM!!

- stadium editor/creator

- spend your manager salary and maybe buy a club.

- Sponsorship

- Economical model for the club (ticket prices+ sim city style building interface)

- TV style presentation and analysis

- More detailed training and maybe a 3d plays designer and a set piece creator

- Kit designer

- Sound effects like national anthems and tournament anthems

- Player manager mode

And a second entity where it is more realistic and can be trusted to deliver a more realistic experience for the hardcore managers. Maybe give the users the freedom to create mods.

I've tried to be as constructive as possible but when a management game has matches that end 6-4 with 55 shots on goal (even after 3 or 4 patches) then something is not right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I could but can't be bothered to provide constructive feedback isn't exactly helpful, to be fair. It would be good to hear your ideas if you have any, so please do.

Sorry for not reading everything in the thread, but in my humble opinion: declared main features are cosmetic one rather than mechanic one. Maybe for most buyers cosmetic is more important than mechnics, but for me - it is not. Rather than "create your avatar" I'd prefer new PR system (or reason to demand high salary) for example - I mentioned it in suggestion thread. However I do realize that I'm not a center of the world and most money spenders have opinion different than mine (based on published statistics on PI forums) so I don't blame SI making money, but just wanted to ask for more balanced approach between money and depth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3d managers, Analysis tools, Create a club were in fifa manager probably 10 years ago. Where is the progress?

Here is a list of features that were in management games in the last 15 years and we still don't see them in FM!!

- stadium editor/creator

- spend your manager salary and maybe buy a club.

- Sponsorship

- Economical model for the club (ticket prices+ sim city style building interface)

- TV style presentation and analysis

- More detailed training and maybe a 3d plays designer and a set piece creator

- Kit designer

- Sound effects like national anthems and tournament anthems

- Player manager mode

And a second entity where it is more realistic and can be trusted to deliver a more realistic experience for the hardcore managers. Maybe give the users the freedom to create mods.

I've tried to be as constructive as possible but when a management game has matches that end 6-4 with 55 shots on goal (even after 3 or 4 patches) then something is not right.

Sponsorship is in the game.

national anthems and tournament ones are specially licensed to use, hence not in it.

- Economical model for the club (ticket prices+ sim city style building interface) - they have no plans for giving manager this level of control (which they never would)

- Player manager mode - no current plans for making this, nor is it that likely to be honest

-More detailed training and maybe a 3d plays designer and a set piece creator - FM16 contains a set piece creator

- TV style presentation and analysis - prozone analysis is in the game. No idea what you mean by TV style presentation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But it is something other users have requested in the past. Just because you don't want or particularly like a feature doesn't mean other people share your opinion. That's what a lot of this is, people's opinions - nearly all of which are coming from looking at screenshots.

personally i'm satisfied when i see some of my old suggestions finally done (like more favorite teams, World map for scouting knowledge) but honestly i can't see these things can be called 'feature' .. the biggest features over the years were:

1- add/remove league (which i can call non-game feature but this was very important as it's save people many from buying top laptop each year )

2- players chat ( can't remember which version )

3- Challenge Mode ( which i fully respect although i don't play it )

4- coaching Qualification (and human players involved in training workload) & job interview (FM15)

the fact FM15 was obviously better than older versions in terms of gaming experience..

and fair play to SI, they introduced coaching Qualification and linked it to training field, and favorite teams mentioned too in the first appearance of job interview..

but this FM16 new features looking very disappointing, I feel SI producing one great version each 3-4 years, and it's seem I can share Trigger_18uk concerns over FM16, I would love to see really interesting features like those which i mentioned above, features provide more fun/realistic to manager life, in terms of footballing matters.

Football manager need these things:

1- Staff screen need to be tidy, I don't think it's good to see the title of 'U21 Manager or U19 Manager' ..

some clubs remove the title of Manager from the senior team to 'head coach' , let alone you guys give it to youths coaches.

The senior staff should be appeared consecutively, then head of youth Development, and U21 head coach and his staff, as well as U18.

human player should negotiate his job title ( Manager - head coach ) .. the later should be given less say in transfers (finance)

as a result, we need to see negotiations skills attributes for chairman and director of football.

also ability for human players to accept 21,18 head coaches

2- Training: Bringing back training sessions for the whole team, which give you clear look, in which sides your team improved and not improved. This is very important feature which people calling for ages, it's not good to see thing ignored, although it's one of the main jobs for Manager, i'm surprised how basic it's now. We would love to see 3D example for each individual/team practice ( as it's done in championship manager 2009 ) I loved that feature. It's give TEN times excitement to the game.

3- Resignation process, it should be via meeting, and manager can be given a chance to reconsider his decision, even demanding 48 hours to give his final word or do it for now.

4- Manager location: to prevent interviews in different countries in short time. Also controlling matches for both club/nation team (should be asked to do only one) and risk his position slightly for any absent match?!

5- there are many rows and bad attitude from unhappy players, but the answers which i'm offered to say not good. I remember a player a threat me to tell the whole squad his problem (which i'm not good) .. why i can't take an action over this (warning - transfer list - drop him further pecking order - or telling him he would never play under my belt ? :) - wage fines if one leaked it to public ) ..

Also I remember a played claimed that i broke my promise, but he was injuried..

I've also problem with one who refused to sign new contract, and i told him he isn't going to play until signing new one, yet he still complains about why i'm not playing him.

6- Director of football, this should be chairman style (depends on results on field or financial results) .. a manager who is failing on both, some of his responsibilities should be taken. Some rows should happen and board talks could take a place to discuss this.

7- Tours ( club/teams/players gain special benefits depends on region ) .. Talks should be held over this with chairman in May over this season to discuss and agree in tour proposal. Costs should be revealed. ( when deciding pre-season return ) .. the manager should be able to demand his

these i can call a true features, more excitement and realistic.

cheers !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll be waiting for news on the Editor as usual. There was a lot of discontent over the restrictions added in FM2015 that hindered content creators and I am hopeful that our feedback has been taken on board and improvements made.

this 100%.....really hoping SI have taken on board the feedback on editor

will not be pre ordering game this year I have for every other version but will wait and see if known issues/bugs have been addressed if not wont be buying

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like to see news about training system... i think this is an area who needs a upgrade in the game, the possibility to choose kinds of training drills, squad pratices, physical... but i'll wait the final version to make a judgment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure won't be getting my 55 euros. It really demonstrates that the developers have no clue about proper football. I mean, why release in November? The season has already started.

I've never understood why they have not invested in the match day more. How difficult would it be to create a sound editor so you can add your own sounds easily without messing around with the sound.cfg file... most of which doesn't work inclucing the specific team and player chants. There's no proper build up to the match and it ends almost before the whistle is blown. The crowd sounds are the same volume and atmosphere no matter how large or small the crowd is.

Anyway, finished moaning. There is not enough content to warrant 55 euros and the manager avatar looks like some 1990 SIMs graphic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As said earlier, it's a tad early for anyone to make an assumptions about the game. SI were never going to announce every new feature/addition/change in FM16; that's just bad marketing. They'll announce things little by little over the coming weeks/months. Heck they even said so :lol:

So have a little patience and hold judgement until you have something substantial to actually talk about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll give you a pound to link me to a post of a mod on here complaining about the game or a feature of the game, whether in a constructive or otherwise manner (that isn't a rant about a match result). One would easily postulate that you can be too 'positive' about the game. Hmm?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/432428-Are-player-prices-too-inflated-on-FM?p=10455548#post10455548 ;)

I've also not been the biggest fan of the AI tactical setups and this has been voiced too, in addition to what themadsheep2001 mentioned.

The new features haven't really grabbed my attention. The ProZone analysis looks interesting, but I don't use the current analysis feature either. I prefer to watch games and diagnose issues that way.

My favourite feature so far is the Dynamic Rivalries, but that was announced before this. I'm much more interested in the core game and the future announcements will hopefully cover this area. I want to see that the AI has improved tactically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What further tactical and player instructions do you feel the game needs? And like you've said there may even be changes to the match engine which haven't been announced yet.

Different tactics based on offense and defense, with the ball and without the ball. This, is easily the biggest thing missing from this game. It is something any real life manager comments on when comparing this game to real footie. Just one of many suggestions I will save for the wishlist thread again this year, but you asked. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Far too early to judge.

Purely cosmetic, I know, but are we going to see an improvement with the flags in the 3D match engine?

It’s quite underwhelming seeing banners like “R.Madrid” on your first away trip to the Bernabeu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Far too early to judge.

Purely cosmetic, I know, but are we going to see an improvement with the flags in the 3D match engine?

It’s quite underwhelming seeing banners like “R.Madrid” on your first away trip to the Bernabeu.

Could well be a licensing issue tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May I ask one thing about the ProZone thing? Is there FINALLY after all these years a stat for "lost balls", e.g. while dribbling? My winger can be dispossessed every single time he runs down the line, still he'll get a good rating thanks to two key passes. Or my young uber-nervous midfielder, who gives away the when being pressed. I need to be informed about these things!

I don't understand how this is still not in the game. Should be incredibly easy to implement: Every time someone wins a tackle, the one who was the target of the tackle gets 1up for his "lost balls" stat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm in a slightly different boat, due to researcher perks but at the same time I've got nothing to feel aggrieved about if I don't like a particular version. For me I've played more hours on this years FM than any others going back as far as FM2010. Steam doesn't keep track of my playtime for FM09, but that was probably the last one to be higher.

It happens an awful lot with any game now, I prefer to ignore reviews, ignore everyone else and their feedback and see what the end product is like for me personally.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Seriously, I don't understand why this isn't the norm for people.

Well i dont know how old you are Kriss but unless you are pushing 90 and on borrowed time then i really think that this statement "There won't be another, certainly in my lifetime" is the flawed assumption here!

Well this time, it actually has some grounding. SI have spent 20 years building up their ME and database. Even if some company could come in and do similar in less time, that time would be spent by SI consolidating their position. The ship has sailed on someone coming in and doing exactly what SI are doing but better. The only way I could see any kind of "competition", is a smaller company building a game that capitalises on an aspect SI have missed. Even then they won't have the database, and are very unlikely to have an ME that could compete.

Think of it like playing Barcelona when they were in their pomp. You could go toe to toe with them, but as several teams found out, that probably means you'll get pumped. So you go away and you change approach, and maybe you go out there by playing anti-football. In this analogy, SI are Barcelona, and other developers are the other teams. Maybe someone will come along one day and build a game that doesn't have the DB, doesn't have the ME, but they've got something in their game that gives it that *shudder* X factor. Something that makes it fun, despite the bits missing.

But then if it was that easy, do you not think someone would have done it already? Developers have tried, and developers have failed. Even EA with their endless buckets of cash couldn't touch them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious, but with Sky Sports using FM stats on Sky Sports News, why can't it work the other way and Sky Sports News feature within the game? The presentation could be used with the game for transfer deadline day, news stories etc.

A bit like the new ProZone partnership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think fm16 will be a new disappointment.

According to announcement there is nothing exciting about AI. SI just made a few graphical changes etc.

In FM15 there are lots of stupid things like fixture congestion, irrational transfer strategies and transfer fees, AI's tactical mistakes etc. and i'm afraid all of that to be continued in FM16.

Sorry about my english :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think fm16 will be a new disappointment.

According to announcement there is nothing exciting about AI. SI just made a few graphical changes etc.

In FM15 there are lots of stupid things like fixture congestion, irrational transfer strategies and transfer fees, AI's tactical mistakes etc. and i'm afraid all of that to be continued in FM16.

Sorry about my english :)

Not everything in FM16 has been announced.

Also, not sure if this was somehow missed?

And Much, Much More

Further additions and updates include staff shortlisting, improved manager and staff movement, revised board requests, a revamp of board confidence, more contextual team talks, fully updated competition rules & squad information, an improved financial module, improved AI transfers and team selection, new social media features and many more – all of which combine to make Football Manager 2016 the most complete and immersive simulation of football management ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well i dont know how old you are Kriss but unless you are pushing 90 and on borrowed time then i really think that this statement "There won't be another, certainly in my lifetime" is the flawed assumption here! But i appreciate you are more in the know how in regards to SI and what is going on etc.

I'm 69 and have been fighting cancer for the last 3 years so I think it's a pretty safe assumption. :D

Forameuss gives very insightful reasoning as to why a competitor is almost certain never to appear again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I was about to write something along the lines of what Forameuss typed, his was better written than I would have done though. :)

Yep the ship has sailed on that, there is just too much ground to make up and the money and time needed to make the game I just don't see any company ever really trying to compete with SI now.

Cash wise it would be a bottomless pit, the first few years they would be trying to get the game right, more than likely getting a lot wrong and there would not be enough money coming back in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah I was about to write something along the lines of what Forameuss typed, his was better written than I would have done though. :)

Throw enough rubbish at a wall and sometimes it'll stick :p

To expand on the ME point, I don't think many people really know what work has gone into it. They'll see the FM15 ME for example as taking a year to build, when really it's taken the 20 years. Not specifically, as I know they rewrote the ME in one edition (can't remember which, feel free to correct me), but even when you rewrite the ideas you built up previously will play a part.

I worked briefly on the fated UFL game which rose out of the ashes of FML. As part of that - and because I was curious - I looked into building even a rudimentary game engine. I thought of it as a turn-based kind of thing, this attribute beats that attribute until it gets to a scoring chance. So far, so very crap. Even that is very difficult to get your head around from a coding sense before you've even started. Scale that up to the behemoth that the FM ME is, and sweet adult carpenter Jesus, there is just no way anyone will ever come close.

In fact, purely theoretically, the only way I could see there being a competitor is if there's another split, like the Eidos/SI one, but within SI themselves. But even as I type that, the side that "won" the ME would be FM as we know it, and the other would be nothing. Even if the other side got the DB. Note that I'm not advocating some kind of SI civil war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly some people still want Chairman Manager. If it doesn't fall under the remit of what a football manager does, then it isn't going to be in the game. Thankfully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meh, how hard can it be to write a 2-3 million line footballing ME?

How hard can it be to write it well ;)

Seriously though, the one thing that has plagued me for so long is long-term saves. Anyone who wants to do a Fergie or an Arsene will get bored very easily because the game simply doesn't put up a challenge. The big clubs have no idea how to build their squad long-term.

I just wish the AI would be much better at long term strategic thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with you on that, but we will always be better than the AI. Imo, player development is what puts us far ahead too. If player development was better, we'd struggle more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
isignedupfornorealreason - Hunt3r, RTH and I have spent a good year talking about the tactical interface and where it falls down, where we'd change and also the information needed. If you can work your way through the awful search engine, you'll be able to find it.

I know that, I've taken part in some of those discussions. :p

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/432428-Are-player-prices-too-inflated-on-FM?p=10455548#post10455548 ;)

I've also not been the biggest fan of the AI tactical setups and this has been voiced too, in addition to what themadsheep2001 mentioned.

The new features haven't really grabbed my attention. The ProZone analysis looks interesting, but I don't use the current analysis feature either. I prefer to watch games and diagnose issues that way.

My favourite feature so far is the Dynamic Rivalries, but that was announced before this. I'm much more interested in the core game and the future announcements will hopefully cover this area. I want to see that the AI has improved tactically.

Curiously, we differ on that last point then. I actually think the tactical/AI stuff is workable at the moment, sure it could do with refinement and it certainly needs documentation/accessibility as you and the other lads (and ladies) have pointed out. Where I want to see significant improvement, and this is the area that put me off FM15, is in the interaction model - Conversations especially and the outcomes thereof I think are not up to standard. I'm not sold on the 'improvements' actually improving those areas either, simply because I don't find them logical in some cases. Or rather, I find them to be far too aggressive at times and it really gets on my wick.

Clearly some people still want Chairman Manager. If it doesn't fall under the remit of what a football manager does, then it isn't going to be in the game. Thankfully.

Personally I don't see an issue. It wouldn't have enough features to be a stand alone game, that makes FM the perfect medium to develop a sort of side-game that operates within the game either as a continuation after retirement or as a new game mode. The Create-A-Club mode is borderline tip toeing into that territory, and while it is something *I* might only dabble with I know a lot of enthusiasts who will be all over that like a bad rash.

Plus, if SI did devote the minimum resources to it and it became successful no doubt they'd have a platform for a spin-off game and I can't see anyone saying no to the money coming in - but that's in an ideal world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not everything in FM16 has been announced.

Also, not sure if this was somehow missed?

I didn't miss that. But the main focus of the announcement was about graphics, user interface and new game mods.. FM is a manager simulation and actually i don't care much about changes like that. I think announcement of a football manager simulation should focus on AI. But in FM16 announcement this issue mentioned just like an very unimportant thing. "we made these big graphical changes, added these new mods, user interface will be more user friendly etc... and last there is improvements on AI..." I hoped and expected "there is a big improvement on AI, transfer decisions and fees will be more realistic, match engine is more close to real football, AI managers will be more intelligent etc etc.. and last there is some changes on graphics, user interface etc.."

I hope i can explain what i want to say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of thoughts

Firstly, I never take the 'marketable' features as the major updates as most of the very good stuff happens under the hood. Match engine, AI squad building and transfers are not headlining features, but improvements will make the game a lot better. The amount of headline features is definitely wearing thin for FM as it will get to the point where thinkgs they add in will move away from realism. There are plenty of football experts consultants that work with SI to make sure that all bases are covered for the doable features.

Those who sway towards negative will always be more vocal than those that are positive or neutral about the game. As the mods have pointed out though, if you want to be negative or criticise the game or particular feature then think about it before doing so and offer alternatives or suggestions, it will only make the game better.

Secondly, FM always needs a year like this where it is more evolution rather than revolution. The amount of features that have been added in the past couple of versions, there needs to be a polish up before moving on, every now and again. For people complaining about the price, I don't think I have paid more than £24 for beta and 1st day release for this game for a long time, so unless you are in a country that it is impossible to get a cheap deal (and for those I sympathise), you really need to shop around and not pre-order from the first place that you see the game advertised.

As for the 'headline' features, the two so far that have appealed the most are:

Fantasy draft. I know a few are saying this is a useless feature to add, but I and my friends really like it. As we've grown older and had families, we haven't had a LAN game for a long time due to the fact it took a whole weekend usually and a lot of preparation had to be done in messing around with the editor to put funds into our teams and make sure the reputation was equal. Then a hell of a lot of time was spent on the first transfer window as we tried to build squads, it would be about 8 hours into the game before we played the first match. This now is all done in a brilliant way and you could potentially have a 'friends' tournament or league done in an afternoon and evening. This feature, I would imagine is going to appeal a lot to the 'Twitch' generation and pop up competitions.

Injuries. This seems to have fallen under the radar but there seems to have been a reworking of injuries, making them more realistic (not necessarily less frequent) and more importantly the ability to have a 'real time' diagnosis within the match. Perfect if you want to leave a striker on who has a broken a fingernail but is showing as 'injured'.

I am definitely in the camp of disliking the tactics screen from the screenshot provided. The icons look clunky and out of place and at the moment looks a step back from the clean and smart football shirt icons. As others have said, you don't get a good feel for the positions that the player is in as the 11 icons almost cover the whole pitch. However, someone has said that this is on a low res computer and will wait until Beta\Demo to pass judgement. If it is still bad then SI will try to fix (as they do listen) or will be changed in the plethora of skins available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Curiously, we differ on that last point then. I actually think the tactical/AI stuff is workable at the moment, sure it could do with refinement and it certainly needs documentation/accessibility as you and the other lads (and ladies) have pointed out. Where I want to see significant improvement, and this is the area that put me off FM15, is in the interaction model - Conversations especially and the outcomes thereof I think are not up to standard. I'm not sold on the 'improvements' actually improving those areas either, simply because I don't find them logical in some cases. Or rather, I find them to be far too aggressive at times and it really gets on my wick.

The AI lacked too much tactically. It might be tricky to fix completely as there are so many possible scenarios to cover, but I expect improvements here, purely from a selfish point of view.

I'll always agree on the documentation side, but I am much more satisfied this year as it seems (can't be sure at this early stage, obviously) that the TI screen with the visual indicators will help a lot of the issues people had. It won't make them better, tactically, but at least they'll have a much better idea what they are instructing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didn't miss that. But the main focus of the announcement was about graphics, user interface and new game mods.. FM is a manager simulation and actually i don't care much about changes like that. I think announcement of a football manager simulation should focus on AI. But in FM16 announcement this issue mentioned just like an very unimportant thing. "we made these big graphical changes, added these new mods, user interface will be more user friendly etc... and last there is improvements on AI..." I hoped and expected "there is a big improvement on AI, transfer decisions and fees will be more realistic, match engine is more close to real football, AI managers will be more intelligent etc etc.. and last there is some changes on graphics, user interface etc.."

I hope i can explain what i want to say.

It still made it into the announcement list. It's possible to have highlights for new features and graphical/UI changes, yes. I can't imagine how you show a 'highlights' video of transfer AI being improved or fixture congestion, not congesting anymore (if that was an issue). It was an eye catching highlight announcement. That doesn't mean the core of the game was forgotten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sure won't be getting my 55 euros. It really demonstrates that the developers have no clue about proper football. I mean, why release in November? The season has already started.

.

It's been released in late Oct or Nov since forever and is the same for all football games. Have you noticed when FIFA gets released every year? Is it the first weekend of August? No.

Probably because they have to allow time to finalise the squads since the transfer windows are open so late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It still made it into the announcement list. It's possible to have highlights for new features and graphical/UI changes, yes. I can't imagine how you show a 'highlights' video of transfer AI being improved or fixture congestion, not congesting anymore (if that was an issue). It was an eye catching highlight announcement. That doesn't mean the core of the game was forgotten.

I hope so. I shared my personal thought. I'm just saying in a game like that, AI improvements should be in foreground not graphical changes or UI..

I hope i'll be wrong and FM players get a brilliant game this year.

Thanks for answering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hope so. I shared my personal thought. I'm just saying in a game like that, AI improvements should be in foreground not graphical changes or UI..

I hope i'll be wrong and FM players get a brilliant game this year.

Thanks for answering.

"Further additions and updates include improved AI transfers and team selection, "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My pre-order is in.

Mine aint. Then again, I don't preorder games anymore :D

"Further additions and updates include improved AI transfers and team selection, "

Funny how people just up and ignore that. Consistently. Damn near blatantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Further additions and updates include improved AI transfers and team selection, "

Meh, like that stuff is even important.

Any word on if they're going to improve AI transfers and team selection?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...