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I really really love this game but...

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Just want to comment on this one:

As far as I understand, the match engine is fine, but the 3D presentation needs improvement. For example, in one of my games my opponent makes a pass into space towards penalty box. My goalie stands on the edge of his box and goes towards the ball which is about 3meters inside the penalty box on the left side. Opponents striker just starts running towards it from about 30meters away. My GK goes about half way towards the ball and then he just decides to return back to his box. When he's back, the attacker reaches the ball and then scores. I went completely ballistic, and my GK wasn't »credited« with mistake after the game, but through 3D presentation it certainly looked like one.

Goalkeeper order/attributes issue.

You probably have him with a defend mentality with encourages him to take low risks. Initially given his attributes he thought he could get the ball and moved towards it, somewhere along the way he decided it was too bigger risk and changed his mind backing off.

It happens IRL from time to time where keepers get caught out.

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I think we forget it's a game sometimes. For example, the media questions are based on what it knows, not what's in your head. One example of this is my recent save with Man United. The season expectation is to qualify for Champions League. With 5 games to go, I'm top of the table but because it's close, I haven't confirmed a 4th place finish yet. Before my next match, the media questions are all about the pressures of getting Champions League qualification. In my head, I'm definitely going for the title win but none of the answers related to that. The question made sense based on my expectations but didn't make sense based on the actual current situation.

I'm playing FMC and a few questions aren't clear enough. For example, I bought a player and I had a question about how he would fit in. The problem is, it didn't mention his name! I didn't know who it was referring to!

On the subject of loans, I agree with you. I was able to extend Falcao's loan for 3 years at the same rate. Maybe realistic but in the first year, he scored 35 and in the second year, he won the World Player of the Year and scored 42. Monaco were happy to extend the loan for another year at the same rate. Seemed odd.

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Just want to comment on this one:

Goalkeeper order/attributes issue.

You probably have him with a defend mentality with encourages him to take low risks. Initially given his attributes he thought he could get the ball and moved towards it, somewhere along the way he decided it was too bigger risk and changed his mind backing off.

It happens IRL from time to time where keepers get caught out.

It's been a while since this happened so you might be right. And yes, there are plenty of silly goals specially in lower levels.

I think it was my swedish save and i had SK(D), he was nothing special, but not bad either. The goal just looked silly, my goalie comes 5m from the ball and opponents striker is 15-20m away in full sprint. The guy just decides to go back to 6 yard box despite being closer to the ball than to his box.

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I think we forget it's a game sometimes. For example, the media questions are based on what it knows, not what's in your head. One example of this is my recent save with Man United. The season expectation is to qualify for Champions League. With 5 games to go, I'm top of the table but because it's close, I haven't confirmed a 4th place finish yet. Before my next match, the media questions are all about the pressures of getting Champions League qualification. In my head, I'm definitely going for the title win but none of the answers related to that. The question made sense based on my expectations but didn't make sense based on the actual current situation.

I'm playing FMC and a few questions aren't clear enough. For example, I bought a player and I had a question about how he would fit in. The problem is, it didn't mention his name! I didn't know who it was referring to!

On the subject of loans, I agree with you. I was able to extend Falcao's loan for 3 years at the same rate. Maybe realistic but in the first year, he scored 35 and in the second year, he won the World Player of the Year and scored 42. Monaco were happy to extend the loan for another year at the same rate. Seemed odd.

It is just a game, and a very good one, there aren't many games you can play for more than 1000 hours and still enjoy them. This one is one of them.

But the question you mention is not similar to mine. I know you only get 5 options for answer, but in your case you still got a least valid ones, despite the fact that you could give a better answer. In my case, one of our players out on loan scored against my team and I was asked whether I regret loaning him out despite the fact that he was loaned out about 5 months prior to my arrival and I couldn't recall him. I know that there are also many reporters asking stupid questions IRL, but at least you can tell them that. I just got 5 optional answers, none of them good, the one stating "He is now XXX player." being the only option I could answer, and even this option was bad. How can I regret or not regret something that's been done way before my arrival.

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You see, in that case it's sort of alright.

But, in my save I was managing Eibar and was on 5th place in La Liga. There were still maybe 8 or 10 games to go, but I was definitely not going to get relegated, however I wasn't mathematically secure. I didn't even think of relegation though, I was worried about qualifying for Europa Leauge; but in the Press Conference they said "If you win tonight and other results go your way, you will avoid relegation". After I mathematically secured it, they asked if it was the most important game in my career, they thought it was the biggest moment in the club's history, but I virtually secured staying up since a long time ago.

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"like not being able to rest players between matches in International tournaments" I would like the option to rest players introduced to the International game, you are faced with having to change 7 or 8 players from one game to the next which is totally unrealistic.

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I didn't want to start a new thread, so i'll bump this up.

I do really like this game, much better than previous ones. I had fun in three seasons so far winning two Serie A titles. I don't find any glaring flaws to the game either. But, i am wondering if this is an issue with the game, like a glitch, or if something just isn't right.

I barely won Serie A this season with Juventus and not because i lost to teams like Inter, Napoli. In fact, i've beaten nearly all of them save a few ties here and there. What i cannot understand is how i lost the last three games in a row against Trapani, Cagliari, and Verona. Cagliari barely made it out alive in avoiding relegation, but Verona (19th) and Trapani (20th), were horrible.

I didn't have much of an issue with lower end teams until that final stretch, yet i also defeated Real Madrid handedly for Champions (yet got my arse kicked by Barca).

What is even weirder is that starting training for the new season, i've actually lost against my U20 team, which is quite horrible as my top three prospects are already loaned out. I mean, the young goalie, 19 years of age, has pathetic attributes yet played like an all-star.

So i lost four games in a row against teams that if you say that are inferior that's actually a compliment.

I don't get it, why?

I just won 1-0 against the Chicago Fire, but with exhausting struggles.

What is going on here? I get the over confident part, but four games losing and barely a win with an abysmal performance? Is this something a bit glitchy about the game or is it just part of it and quite a bad part of it too?

My team made horrible errors. Shots are way wide. They lose the ball instantly. I mean, i get it for a few times, but this is concerning because it's two seasons with the same feel of a very good team playing like i've never seen before against much lower end teams.

Thoughts?

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Losing to far inferior teams points to a tactic that's poor at breaking teams down.

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I didn't want to start a new thread, so i'll bump this up.

I do really like this game, much better than previous ones. I had fun in three seasons so far winning two Serie A titles. I don't find any glaring flaws to the game either. But, i am wondering if this is an issue with the game, like a glitch, or if something just isn't right.

I barely won Serie A this season with Juventus and not because i lost to teams like Inter, Napoli. In fact, i've beaten nearly all of them save a few ties here and there. What i cannot understand is how i lost the last three games in a row against Trapani, Cagliari, and Verona. Cagliari barely made it out alive in avoiding relegation, but Verona (19th) and Trapani (20th), were horrible.

I didn't have much of an issue with lower end teams until that final stretch, yet i also defeated Real Madrid handedly for Champions (yet got my arse kicked by Barca).

What is even weirder is that starting training for the new season, i've actually lost against my U20 team, which is quite horrible as my top three prospects are already loaned out. I mean, the young goalie, 19 years of age, has pathetic attributes yet played like an all-star.

So i lost four games in a row against teams that if you say that are inferior that's actually a compliment.

I don't get it, why?

I just won 1-0 against the Chicago Fire, but with exhausting struggles.

What is going on here? I get the over confident part, but four games losing and barely a win with an abysmal performance? Is this something a bit glitchy about the game or is it just part of it and quite a bad part of it too?

My team made horrible errors. Shots are way wide. They lose the ball instantly. I mean, i get it for a few times, but this is concerning because it's two seasons with the same feel of a very good team playing like i've never seen before against much lower end teams.

Thoughts?

The game forces you to be dynamic. You can't stick with the same tactic. The other teams adapt, and so should you.

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I think it was a very good post from the OP, and it discusses a few problems that he's not alone in seeing. Yes, there are problems with the animations, where they make the match engine look worse than it is. Keepers' behaviour is easy to spot, and some of it is so ridiculous that it just can't be dismissed as "happening in real life too". When a keeper do not react to a ball rolling slowly just in front of him, but stands and wait untill an opposing striker runs at it and taps it in, then it's not "something that happens in real life too". It is a flaw with the match engine, or with the animations representing that situation, or both. And it's not just the keepers; there are similar issues with outfield players too. But then, for the most part, the animations are fine. Point is; its a fine game, but not everything is fine. Yes?

I won't go into the other things the OP mentions here, other than to say I mostly agree with him. Player interactions, "talks", for example. In my view they should be abolished alltogether. That won't happen, so I'll leave it.

For me, it is the best game I know, and I rarely play anything else. My gaming interrests lies almost exclusively in the simulation/strategy genres, just so you know where I'm coming form. It is very good, but can be better. But it's a perpetual work in progress, so I'm not worried. I have faith in SI that they see the same problems that we do, and will try to get it better.

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The game forces you to be dynamic. You can't stick with the same tactic. The other teams adapt, and so should you.

So, i have to find a new formation that is best suited to play against much inferior teams while the same tactic works really well against much superior teams? That's a head scratcher.

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So, i have to find a new formation that is best suited to play against much inferior teams while the same tactic works really well against much superior teams? That's a head scratcher.

Not a new formation, necessarily. Just something that'll be able to open up teams who are sitting back.

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Or, it's a football philosophy question too. You could follow in the vein of e.g. Wenger, and play the same way home or away, against whoever, whenever. I do that, and I'm still doing pretty darn well on this game. If you're already a top class club from the start, "inferior" teams won't be changing their perception of you very much, and so will not change their approach much either. Being at a top class club, you have the luxury of not having to adapt all that much during your career. But tactics and formation is always a perpetual work in progress anyway, so it's natural - even for stubborn me - that tactics will evolve as the seasons go by. Not because of necessity, but because of curiousness. Can I do it even better if I change things a little? Etc.

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Ok, but why all of the sudden do my players make boneheaded mistakes. I'm just not getting the change here. Bonucci and Chiellini no longer tackle even they i have them to do so. Marchisio continues to give the ball away and is a 6.10 overall rating in the past I've games. Pogba is 6.40.

I'm not getting it. And I just lost to a Milan side (friendly match) that had this goalkeeper with an 8 in reflexes, yet stopped 12 shots (31 missed shots is embarrassing).

This is what i am not understanding. It's not so much tactics but the players that are performing like crap and i don't get the source. Their morale is good too. Do i just need to revamp the team then? Sell and buy new players?

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Ok, but why all of the sudden do my players make boneheaded mistakes. I'm just not getting the change here. Bonucci and Chiellini no longer tackle even they i have them to do so. Marchisio continues to give the ball away and is a 6.10 overall rating in the past I've games. Pogba is 6.40.

I'm not getting it. And I just lost to a Milan side (friendly match) that had this goalkeeper with an 8 in reflexes, yet stopped 12 shots (31 missed shots is embarrassing).

This is what i am not understanding. It's not so much tactics but the players that are performing like crap and i don't get the source. Their morale is good too. Do i just need to revamp the team then? Sell and buy new players?

Don't take friendlies that seriously

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Players don't all of a sudden become that bad. It's your setup.

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It's a continuation though from the previous season. I lost to Dallas FC for f's sakes. Logan Nicholls just pulled a Messi with Bonucci, Chiellini, and Marrone leaving him untouched and he blasted one past Scuffet. Bonucci finished a 5.8.

I didn't make anything different than i had for the last two seasons. The opposition instructions i took care of as well, like i always do. Aaaaaaak.... what's happening to my team :(

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I didn't make anything different than i had for the last two seasons.

Why aren't you listening to what's being said? The quoted part IS your issue. You're now the best team in Europe. These weaker teams are going to be very cautious when they play you. THEY have changed how THEY approach you. You haven't done a thing and you're paying the price for it.

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But it doesn't explain the players playing like crap. You're wrong on this. By default, a weak team, even my U20, is comprised of players with attributes that are very low. It doesn't explain how Bad goalkeepers are saving over 95% of my shots when they are terrible. It also doesn't explain how two all-star defenders in Bonucci and Chiellini, plus a solid defender in Marrone, can't stop a guy who has dribbling skills at 6-11.

This is not strategy or formation. It's the players that play so poorly. It doesn't make sense to change any tactics against your U20, which has your same tactics. What's there to change that would make your players not be so horrible against teams that are nowhere near the quality? And again, i can understand a couple of games, but this is now what...7 games or so? And i see the same mistakes, the same game ratings of players like Pogba.

I would agree with you if it were lower end teams, but with some good players, but you're talking about teams whose best defended has a 10 in tackling and an 8 in marking at best. That simply can't outdo Bernard, Tevez, and Morata, and the goalkeeper with porous attributes as well. You can't tell me that i am losing to such teams because i didn't tweak something. It's illogical.

I know what you are saying, but that's not it.

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What do I know, right?

Instead of guessing games, post info about your setup. Post the PKM of a game. That way things can move forward.

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Just want to comment on this one:

Goalkeeper order/attributes issue.

You probably have him with a defend mentality with encourages him to take low risks. Initially given his attributes he thought he could get the ball and moved towards it, somewhere along the way he decided it was too bigger risk and changed his mind backing off.

It happens IRL from time to time where keepers get caught out.

This is standard keeper AI behaviour and it happens far more than IRL.

I see AI keepers do this all the time, and like most people, I see it as an area of the match engine which needs work. Inexplicably, you can only see a flaw in the OPs tactics.

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This is standard keeper AI behaviour and it happens far more than IRL.

I see AI keepers do this all the time, and like most people, I see it as an area of the match engine which needs work. Inexplicably, you can only see a flaw in the OPs tactics.

Then you are watching a different game to me.

Inexplicably you can only pick fault rather than taking on board the explanation of why it happens :rolleyes:

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Then you are watching a different game to me.

Inexplicably you can only pick fault rather than taking on board the explanation of why it happens :rolleyes:

Nope, it happens all the time with default non-player controlled AI teams.

My only point is that keeper AI needs work but you disagree. When the next match engine has improved keeper AI are you going to want to revert to the current version? since it has so little wrong with it?

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I have a side "optimised" via attributes and my tactic with WBA and they have gone 300 games unbeaten in all comps and still counting.

It took me almost 6 seasons before I reached that point. Now each time I play I look out for small things like : Is my midfield screen doing it job, are my flanks overloaded. Sometimes I end up against sides hellbent on exploiting my flanks which are my weakest areas on the pitch. When this happens I make subs to my midfield screen to make sure they try and direct the threat away. I've even uploaded YouTube videos showing what I do each step of the way.

Recently I took over a side where the highest attribute is like 14 and the rest are like 4-8. The difference is so obvious. With WBA I was surgical and precise with how my team was set up, with my new side I have to do it all over again and now I see players making boneheaded decisions. I can understand why they are doing this. And I adapt. My strat with WBA won't work with Geylang but I can make my side solid by bringing in players. My first priority is my screen.

Fact is if your players are underperforming then you need to find out why. 9 times out of 10 it's how you set things up in relation to your players. My new side is unbeaten after 12 games. We narrowly escaped with a draw in one of my games when I realised my screen sucked, but I am confident we will win the title in my debut season, when the media predicted we'd finish mid table.

Understanding why you need to to do certain things to adapt takes time but you can still overachieve

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I have a side "optimised" via attributes and my tactic with WBA and they have gone 300 games unbeaten in all comps and still counting.

O/T here, but where the hell is the fun in that? I'd have chucked that a long time before getting to 300. Part of FM's appeal to me is the simulation of the unpredictable nature of football. If I ever got to a stage where a team of mine was good enough to go 300 games unbeaten. I simply wouldn't enjoy that.

Each to their own though.

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As TMS seems to have deleted my reply from last night we'll go again as it wasn't pointless arguing.

Nope, it happens all the time with default non-player controlled AI teams.

I've watched in the region of 1000 matches on comprehensive highlights and it certainly doesn't "happen all the time".

If you have examples provide the PKMs, upload the saves, show your evidence so SI can judge it. My opinion is though that it happens a similar amount to RL which is from time to time.

My only point is that keeper AI needs work but you disagree. When the next match engine has improved keeper AI are you going to want to revert to the current version? since it has so little wrong with it?

I never once said that the keeper AI didn't need work.

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I have a side "optimised" via attributes and my tactic with WBA and they have gone 300 games unbeaten in all comps and still counting.

I agree with Dave.

Lets not pretend that FM is a sim anymore. This could/has/wont ever happen IRL. The value of the players who won so many games would be astronomical. No team could afford them all. And how many CL games is in that 300? 75?

This should send a massive red flag to SI than the AI just isnt getting the job done.

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I agree with Dave.

Lets not pretend that FM is a sim anymore. This could/has/wont ever happen IRL. The value of the players who won so many games would be astronomical. No team could afford them all. And how many CL games is in that 300? 75?

This should send a massive red flag to SI than the AI just isnt getting the job done.

per season:

38 league games

7 FA Cup games (no replays, from 3rd round)

6 League Cup games (from 3rd round)

13 CL games (assumed group stage qualification)

2 World Club Championship games

1 European Super Cup

1 Community Shield

68 games total per season (assumed no replays, entering competition as late as possible)

which is 4.5 seasons of unbeaten-ness (so more like 50 CL games, and 30 of them would be against weaker sides in the groups)

remembering the old adage, you can't lose if you don't concede

like he also says, he's very articulate on the defensive side of the game, and probably wins a LOT of games 1-0 (or 2-0 if pushing for a late equaliser)

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per season:

38 league games

7 FA Cup games (no replays, from 3rd round)

6 League Cup games (from 3rd round)

13 CL games (assumed group stage qualification)

2 World Club Championship games

1 European Super Cup

1 Community Shield

68 games total per season (assumed no replays, entering competition as late as possible)

which is 4.5 seasons of unbeaten-ness (so more like 50 CL games, and 30 of them would be against weaker sides in the groups)

remembering the old adage, you can't lose if you don't concede

like he also says, he's very articulate on the defensive side of the game, and probably wins a LOT of games 1-0 (or 2-0 if pushing for a late equaliser)

But how many clubs have even had 1 season undefeated? It just isnt realistic in even a far outlier scenario. Or maybe he has found a unique way to exploit the match engine.

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O/T here, but where the hell is the fun in that? I'd have chucked that a long time before getting to 300. Part of FM's appeal to me is the simulation of the unpredictable nature of football. If I ever got to a stage where a team of mine was good enough to go 300 games unbeaten. I simply wouldn't enjoy that.

Each to their own though.

With my Lincoln (GIB) side I went unbeaten in league football from November 2032 to October 2046. Lost a few cup games in that time though, and hunners of Champions League games. I guess it was the latter that kept it somewhat interesting - it was all about grinding our way to European glory. Also on the side, building up the club to a level where we could consistently compete at a high level - we got a new stadium in that time, and built up facilities. So I guess what I'm saying is that even if you are winning every single competition, there can still be plenty of places you are progressing in other areas to keep you on top.

Some people can get really into that, and some don't. I'd probably agree that if I was top of a nation like England and unbeaten in all competitions in 300 games, I'd probably be a little bored too. But like you say, ti's each to their own.

But how many clubs have even had 1 season undefeated? It just isnt realistic in even a far outlier scenario. Or maybe he has found a unique way to exploit the match engine.

Or maybe he's just really good at the game. Which brings up an interesting point. Where should realism give way to fun? At the end of the day FM is and always will be a simulation, but more than that, it's a simulation game. For a lot of people, fun ends up aligning with reward. You have to have a state where you can get into as a user where you're being rewarded, and in this case Rashidi is being rewarded for a very precise method of management by absolutely dominating.

My question is, would you rather FM was marketed as being impossible for a user to achieve something like this because "it wouldn't happen in real life"?

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http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/news/newsid=1745954.html

I think it's not so much a question of whether something is unrealistic or not. Though it certainly remarkable given that no man-management, no tactics, no in-match management will get random chance nor individual moment of error/brilliance out of the game (nor should it). Football is an unpredictable funny old game, 55 minutes in total of truly ball kicking, and barely a goal, and many of those goals involving influence of random chance to various degrees (perhaps overall less so in FM due to abstract ball physics). Arguably that's the prime reason why football has become so popular ahead of the money being pumped into it (and no money being required for it to be played on its most basic levels in every backstreet around the world). Eventually something, and even it's just bad luck will get the better of any side. I recently lost the Euro final away in Paris to France by the virtue of an unlucky own goal not by the guy who was shaky, had low morale, and who I had to field due to injury/tiredness for the first time in the entire tournament, actually he did pretty fine. The own goal came off my most reliable player, who was focused, motivated, was supposed to thrive in big matches and due to his overall great performance still was actually awarded man of the match. That's football in FM as it is anywhere.

That said, it's been acknowledged anyway that should the AI be improved "all hell might break loose" (wwfan). In other words: It is really not the game, it is you and me sucking at it to various degrees. ;) Personally I hope it will be improved, even though I've never been nowhere near rashidi. But I too see how it on many occasion proves slightly simplistic, for all its admirable dynamics and equally dynamic levels of attacking risk. For instance, the fact is that everyone following but entry level guides to the letter without understanding any reason for them has an edge over AI-Guardiola and his 4-1-4-1 lone forward preferred formation at least in terms of build up play pretty oftenly. That doesn't necessarily mean a thing (see the first paragraph), but it is a slight edge gained by applying nothing but the most basic guidelines nonetheless.

Also somebody has brought up the topic of "exploiting the game". It is fair to assume that going into the tactics forums here will give you advice that when understood and applied is basically "exploiting the AI", that is at least outperforming it, as some intricate details are beyond it. I truly admire its dynamics, and I hope it will remain, i.e. it can play super cautious with barely committing men forward vs. play a truly overloading game with tons of risk and throwing everyone and the mommy forward, even in the exact same match, though both and the middle grounds needs to be balanced and be applied more intelligently. I'm not going to look at what rashidi does explicitly, but SI should. Not to spoil the fun, but because this looks a good way to eliminate some serious AI and ME weaknesses. The talk about "balanced tactics" and always "effective midfield shields" is all fine, but as football is a holistic game, each decision will have an effect on both ends of the pitch -- a player who never commits forward means shortage somewhere else, and vice versa. And with such runs the edge appears this huge and universal that it draws a lot of stuff moot. This isn't overperformance. This is doing the borderline impossible: denying random chance.

Some of that will be related to AI decision making, i.e. rashidi argues that despite his inpenetrable centre he is often vulnerable to the flank, but the AI may exploit this by chance rather than by truly method -- similar to how in FM 2011/2012 players just always kept 7 men back (2 wide defenders on defend duty plus 3 central midfielders ditto), but none of the AI tactics ever had enough men going forward to ever break that down. Some of it will be related to match engine. When I found that pre-patch you could do the opposite and just push all players forward mid-January and consistently turn mediocre players into top scorers, I stopped playing serious saves for a while. Obviously score lines were all over the shop, so not a viable thing to do with teams competing in knock out competitions. But defending in central areas was flawed enough you always finished very save mid-table with the poorest of teams. Before anybody wants to have a go, this is patched, luckily. ;)

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