JJ72 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Did Sheringham ever rely on pace throughout his career? By implication you're meaning that Rooney has! Really? Has he ever been a pacey player? Not one I'd class as pacey like Vardy for example. Yes he's lost a yard but that doesn't make him necessarily awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Olive Branch Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Could rephrase that question to would Sheringham be as good a striker today? Probably not where at the top levels pace is more important than it was (as defenders tend to have a lot more of it too) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 If Rooney had Sheringham's intelligent movement this wouldn't be a problem, in fact it would be perfect, as excellent movement fits the style much better But Sheringham on his own up front in. 4-2-3-1 wouldn't have been able to make those movements as no one would be receiving the benefit. Who runs beyond Rooney in the Utd team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Well, you would think that a striker would get some service into the box. Go back to his amazing season - didn't all of his goals come from inside the box? Maybe if he was told to be in the box more, he might score more.Actually despite all this defending by me, don't think he is a good enough number nine, he needs someone to play alongside - Martial in a 4-4-2 or am I just being old fashioned? Interesting convo I had tonight - where would you play Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Beckham in this 4-2-3-1 formation? Not sure at least two would fit. Maybe it's time to change the formation... All 4 would fit... Scholes and Keane would each take turns make late runs forward. You'd overlap Beckham with Darmian, and Giggs would be a classic rioting winger. Our 4-4-2 was often a 4-2-3-1 for years as one of the strikers often played just a bit deeper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 By implication you're meaning that Rooney has! Really? Has he ever been a pacey player? Not one I'd class as pacey like Vardy for example. Yes he's lost a yard but that doesn't make him necessarily awful. No. But Rooney had that burst of pace. That goal against Arsenal for example. Sheringham had to rely on other strengths his whole career. Rooney has fallen off a cliff in terms of pace and movement and doesn't know how else to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 But Sheringham on his own up front in. 4-2-3-1 wouldn't have been able to make those movements as no one would be receiving the benefit. Who runs beyond Rooney in the Utd team? Yeah he would. for Sheringham see one Thomas Muller, you dont always need a run beyond, just need to know when to a exploit a yard of extra space. Movement isnt always vertical, its lateral too. Rooney doesnt force his defenders to make decisions any more, or prey on a moment of hesitation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yeah he would. for Sheringham see one Thomas Muller, you dont always need a run beyond, just need to know when to a exploit a yard of extra space. Movement isnt always vertical, its lateral too. Rooney doesnt force his defenders to make decisions any more, or prey on a moment of hesitation. Because the ball into him is lumped up in the air...service is not good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Because the ball into him is lumped up in the air...service is not good enough. It really isnt lumped to him in the air at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 It really isnt lumped to him in the air at all. Not what I saw against City. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 What about when the ball is played to his feet at the edge of the box and it bounces 5 yards away or when he's muscled off the ball by the defender? Who's fault is that? LVG? The rest of the team? I've been thinking about his situation and I think I would use him as CM for the last 20 minutes of matches to replace Basti if we are in a comfortable lead. Can't think of another situation I would use him in and there is other options there too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 But Sheringham on his own up front in. 4-2-3-1 wouldn't have been able to make those movements as no one would be receiving the benefit. Who runs beyond Rooney in the Utd team? Really think this is an issue, particularly the way Rooney is now with his slower pace, and perhaps more importantly, acceleration. I know he's had a few great seasons leading the line, but I view him more as a second striker. He likes to get more involved in the buildup, not just stay up front and chase lost causes. But now we don't really play with a two-striker formation, it's more of a typical/lopsided 4-2-3-1. Plus, the ball barely gets into the box no matter who is up there. I like LVG, I really do, and think he has moved us far in the right direction, but he does have a hard-on for possession and seems to try to break down teams with passes. The issue is it doesn't work nearly as well now as in years gone by, because teams are much better organised and fit (sports science across the board, players are generally healthy, etc). Typically teams aren't knackered in the last 20 minutes from all that running in between. They can just set up defensively and sit in their shape, while we pass the ball in that middle 50-60 meters of the pitch, back and forth, left and right. I wish we were a bit more risky in terms of central midfielders movement and even fullbacks. We need to give the opposition something more to think about than just marking our 9 and 10 and doubling up on the winger or fullback that get into crossing positions. It's too easy. It's not a coincidence we have created so few chances and shots on goal, and it's not simply down to Rooney. Put him on the bench for 10 matches, and not a great deal would change, because the underlying system and risk assessment is the same. IMO, we'd probably be worse off, but I know that's not a very popular opinion in these asocial media driven times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Rooney plays badly "He needs to play up front as a number 9" -> moves to 9 and still doesn't score -> "Oh well I actually think he's better as a second striker" -> moves there and is still gash -> "Oh well actually he's more of a midfielder now" -> moves there and is gash -> "Playing in midfield is hurting his confidence, he needs to play up front as a number 9" I call it the circle of tears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 All 4 would fit... Scholes and Keane would each take turns make late runs forward. You'd overlap Beckham with Darmian, and Giggs would be a classic rioting winger. Our 4-4-2 was often a 4-2-3-1 for years as one of the strikers often played just a bit deeper Not having two sitting midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 asks for trouble! (In FM anyway... >_>) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Pretty sure Keane and Schneiderlin are enough defensive cover for any side. And it's all well and good saying "maybe it's time to change formation". To what exactly? We have 1 natural winger and 2 strikers who aren't exactly dominant in the air, not to mention our biggest attacking threat is a player who doesn't fit into a 4-4-2 and our most creative midfielder can't play in a 2 man midfield without leaving holes everywhere. We need to make 2 changes, drop Rooney and play Young/Memphis--Martial--Mata and move Herrera back into a genuine midfield position alongside Schweinsteiger with Schneiderlin sitting behind. Herrera isn't a 10, he's capable of good moments from there but all his most consistent performances have come as a midfielder with licence to break forward from deep. It wont solve all our problems, but it's the best we can do with the current personnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPS Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 03 Nov 19:45 UK Man Utd 8/15 v CSKA Moscow 5/1 draw 3/1 (0-0 11/1) These odds look slightly awry to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Rooney plays badly"He needs to play up front as a number 9" -> moves to 9 and still doesn't score -> "Oh well I actually think he's better as a second striker" -> moves there and is still gash -> "Oh well actually he's more of a midfielder now" -> moves there and is gash -> "Playing in midfield is hurting his confidence, he needs to play up front as a number 9" I call it the circle of tears. Tbf, he's least crap as a #9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 And he still managed no touches in the box despite this from Martial Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 yes 4th in the league..and drawing 0-0 with teams like Newcastle, crystal palace and championship clubs and yes I have seen Rooneys touchmap.. he keeps coming deep when playing upfront and then there is no one ahead for him to pass to. A bit belittling to Crystal Palace maybe? Putting them on the same tier as Championship clubs and Newcastle is a bit insulting to a club which has been performing very well this year and is a lot of bookies' outside shot at a Europa League spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 they are not exactly the most defensive side in the league, we should be making more then, what was it? 4 shots? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Don't have a God given right to beat anyone. Don't be so arrogant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 whats arrogance got to do with it? we created 3 chances, against a team who had lost at HOME to west ham, and lost to Leicester before then, so no not arrogance at all, west ham scored 3 goals.. we created 3 chances and only 1 on target. so not arrogance just statistics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Not really sure what the Newcastle game has to do with anything really. Since that game you've put 3 past Everton, Sunderland, Southampton, Liverpool and Ipswich if you're counting League Cup games which I'm assuming you are with your "Championship" clubs reference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 We should be beating Palace. "Outside shot at a Europa League spot".. what's that then? 7th? 8th? 9th??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Top 7 is generally Europa League if both cup winners are already qualified for Europe. I just said that though because implying that Palace are no better than a Championship club reeks of arrogance. And if they continue their annual tradition of being nigh on unbeatable from February onwards, they could well snatch a Europa League spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 no one is implying Palace were of championship/bottom premier league, it was implied that we should be beating them, nothing more going off the previous results they had. and a 0-0 at home to Newcastle was a joke of a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavo01 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I actually tipped Palace to get relegated in a works sweepstake. I feel a bit of a wally now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'd said Sunderland, Villa and Watford iirc. Well 2/3 doesn't look too shabby. Didn't account for Bournemouth having an injury crisis or Newcastle continuing their implosion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliss Seeker Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 @Squawka: Man Utd have created just 81 chances in the Premier League this season, fewer than EVERY other side. That's pretty bad no? You guys can't be happy with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I actually tipped Palace to get relegated in a works sweepstake. I feel a bit of a wally now. i put 50p i found in my skybet account for them to finish top 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 @Squawka: Man Utd have created just 81 chances in the Premier League this season, fewer than EVERY other side. That's pretty bad no? You guys can't be happy with this. Have you checked out the subreddit for United? It is a civil war over there at the moment with one side demanding Martial in the middle, Rooney dropped and a return to attacking football. The other side is holding LVG on a pedestal, reminding everyone we are a team in transition and rebuilding and that SAF's teams were just as "boring" - via the dubious use of statistics. Sometimes I really don't understand football fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 @Squawka: Man Utd have created just 81 chances in the Premier League this season, fewer than EVERY other side. That's pretty bad no? You guys can't be happy with this. On one hand, I'm pleased we're doing considerably way better defensively than what Moyes left us in. On the other hand, that's about the only thing Van Gaal has improved on in this team as we still somehow forgot how to attack the opposition. There are some moments though where we look quality in attack, but that is few and far between. It's like Van Gaal is stifling the creative potential of the team, but at least Mata and Herrera is balancing creativity and rigidity. Wouldn't mind low amount of chances created, I'm more concerned on how many of those chances are we going to score, and with how Rooney is playing right now, we're not going to score much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pago Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I'm happy we are more defensively sound. But I wouldn't expect that to be at the expense of going forward. I'd day the improvement of the centre mids and General stability of the back line has been the biggest contributor to our defensive improvements. It's not like he had martial and mata sat on our fullbacks or anything. So I'm unsure as to how we don't create more with the attacking players we have. I'd like to see martial given a go up top and see if that improves things. I'd like to think it would as he would stretch the game a bit more than Rooney currently does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 The mentality whoever we play is don't concede then see about maybe scoring. It used to be score a few and win the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal_guitarist Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 U19s drew 0-0 with CSKA, huge improvement on the result last week. Similar to the first team though, couldn't put the ball in the net. Rashford is back from injury, thankfully wasn't as serious as it looked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Howard Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Worrying team for me. No pace between Carrick and Schweinsteiger (or Mata) in the centre of the pitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Howard Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Or Rooney or Blind for that matter.. Right looks incredibly weak too defensively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Both up front, he listened! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid1984 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 The mentality whoever we play is don't concede then see about maybe scoring.It used to be score a few and win the game. This mentality is fine up against the big teams especially away from home but not against the hopeless teams like Middlesbrough, Newcastle, palace, Swansea etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 OptaJoe @OptaJoe 1m1 minute ago 6 - Manchester United have gone over six hours of football in all competitions since they last scored. Drought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I turn on the match.. and see attacking football. what happened? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Yea take Rooney off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Rooney? not Lingard? if only Memphis was fit, perfect game for him this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Lingard doing what he always does. Tidy but absolutely no end product to speak of. Hopefully that's enough of a jinx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 OptaJoe @OptaJoe 1m1 minute ago 6 - Manchester United have gone over six hours of football in all competitions since they last scored. Drought. OptaJoe @OptaJoe 17m17 minutes ago 7 - Manchester United have gone seven hours of football in all competitions without conceding a goal. Parked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Wayne 'doesn't get enough chances' Rooney there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Wayne 'doesn't get enough chances' Rooney there... Wayne getting the service scores Rooney there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Wayne getting the service scores Rooney there... Only the two impossible to miss chances per goal today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Only the two impossible to miss chances per goal today. And it starts again.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Lingard been good today. Wants to take a player on. Bad thing about that is Rooney is still going to be atrocious but now won't get dropped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 And it starts again.... Doesn't matter what he does, he'll always be criticised by certain sections of the fanbase. Hopefully he's smart enough (snigger) to not read papers or asocial media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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