Manchester United Thread 2015/16

[Icondacarver]

We can't afford to sack LVG and then spend huge money on new players to please a new manager. I think we will do an Arsenal for a few years, maximising profits while being there or thereabouts until the debt is paid down.

Once that is done, we will be in a position to accelerate forward again

[Timmy Howard]

LVG has one year left on his contract and we seem to brief the press about the giant budget we have each transfer window, we really can afford to. Servicing the debt is a fraction of what the club is raking in.

[Sid1984]

People say we are lacking quality, I don't think that is much of an issue. Do teams like Leicester, Watford, West Ham etc have more talented players than us? I don't think so but they are able to play attractive football opposed to the anti-football we see from United.

[adhikapp]

Think any manager would be happy with this team to work with, probably buy a defender or two and thats about it really. The only thing we lack is attacking cohesion because we've done well at the defending part for now.

[Mike7077]

That Tottenham v Leicester match was fantastic. Two sides - both theoretically weakened to some extent - exhibiting the stamps of their respective managers, playing with purpose, looking to get forward, disciplined where necessary but clearly trusted to play with freedom and to express themselves. Now I thought that, during the latter few seasons of Ferguson's reign we were quite tedious to watch at times once players like Ronaldo and Tevez went elsewhere and Scholes and Giggs faded, but the way I just described the Spurs/Leicester game could have been referring to what we were treated to for the majority of the last quarter-century. You can argue that we never had any right to expect to dominate the domestic game the way we used to and that it was always going to be tough once Fergie left, and of course Chelsea and Man City now have monumental resources, but to trash an identity so meticulously constructed, to throw a philosophy out of the window so brazenly - what right does Louis van Gaal think he has to do this? At least Fergie's more austere, less attractive final few years saw a degree of success to offset that change in style. And Moyes was just never up to the job. I can't believe van Gaal doesn't understand what is expected at Old Trafford. I'm sure some of us would tolerate this staid, monotonous, shackled new dawn if it was working, but it isn't. I was jealous of Spurs and Leicester today. Granted, it finished 2-2, so you could argue a bit more conservatism might have seen one side or another through. But at least it suggested the two managers know they're in the entertainment industry. I don't know what van Gaal is doing. I don't think he knows what he's doing anymore. I personally think there are issues with the squad and there are a number of players I don't think are good enough, but when you consider the money that's been spent, that only makes it worse. I can't think of a United midfielder this season who's been consistently on a level similar to Mark bloody Albrighton and N'Golo Kante at Leicester or Dele Alli at Spurs. I guess Herrera has his moments.

Sorry for the longwinded post. I just hate what I'm seeing and had to get some things off my chest.

[YOUNGSTEVE]

That Tottenham v Leicester match was fantastic. Two sides - both theoretically weakened to some extent - exhibiting the stamps of their respective managers, playing with purpose, looking to get forward, disciplined where necessary but clearly trusted to play with freedom and to express themselves. Now I thought that, during the latter few seasons of Ferguson's reign we were quite tedious to watch at times once players like Ronaldo and Tevez went elsewhere and Scholes and Giggs faded, but the way I just described the Spurs/Leicester game could have been referring to what we were treated to for the majority of the last quarter-century. You can argue that we never had any right to expect to dominate the domestic game the way we used to and that it was always going to be tough once Fergie left, and of course Chelsea and Man City now have monumental resources, but to trash an identity so meticulously constructed, to throw a philosophy out of the window so brazenly - what right does Louis van Gaal think he has to do this? At least Fergie's more austere, less attractive final few years saw a degree of success to offset that change in style. And Moyes was just never up to the job. I can't believe van Gaal doesn't understand what is expected at Old Trafford. I'm sure some of us would tolerate this staid, monotonous, shackled new dawn if it was working, but it isn't. I was jealous of Spurs and Leicester today. Granted, it finished 2-2, so you could argue a bit more conservatism might have seen one side or another through. But at least it suggested the two managers know they're in the entertainment industry. I don't know what van Gaal is doing. I don't think he knows what he's doing anymore. I personally think there are issues with the squad and there are a number of players I don't think are good enough, but when you consider the money that's been spent, that only makes it worse. I can't think of a United midfielder this season who's been consistently on a level similar to Mark bloody Albrighton and N'Golo Kante at Leicester or Dele Alli at Spurs. I guess Herrera has his moments.

Sorry for the longwinded post. I just hate what I'm seeing and had to get some things off my chest.

I think you summed up the situation well, and point to what is so wrong with us at the moment.

The way Rooney & co celebrated after the penalty was scored you would think we had just beaten Barcelona in the Champions league final, instead of scoring the only goal in the 94th minute at home against a league 1 team who were obviously tiring.

[Sid1984]

The way Rooney & co celebrated after the penalty was scored you would think we had just beaten Barcelona in the Champions league final, instead of scoring the only goal in the 94th minute at home against a league 1 team who were obviously tiring.

That's cos the LVG mentality is being installed into the players.

[Roy Race 9]

LVG is now far worse than Moyes. I have seen 4 United managers and he is dead last.

if moyes or anyone else for that matter had been give the cash LVG had to spend he would still be in the job probably(he should never have got it in first place.... and there is the problem, the board are full of people doing jobs they shouldn't/cant do club needs a big revamp top to bottom)

[scott MUFC]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/10/louis-van-gaal-accuses-juan-mata-of-disobeying-manchester-uniteds-tactics-against-sheffield-united-5613307/

Mata didn't obey orders? cutting isnide is what happens when you play a player whos best in the middle, on the wing.

play wingers if you want width... BASICS.

oh and no overlapping fullbacks.... again LvG's fault

[adhikapp]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/10/louis-van-gaal-accuses-juan-mata-of-disobeying-manchester-uniteds-tactics-against-sheffield-united-5613307/

Mata didn't obey orders? cutting isnide is what happens when you play a player whos best in the middle, on the wing.

play wingers if you want width... BASICS.

oh and no overlapping fullbacks.... again LvG's fault

Well if you want Mata to stay wide right then make sure he's actually right footed then? Left footers on the right will cut inside naturally. If that metro article is true than Van Gaal needs to go because for a guy with long CV, he's completely out of his depth.

[Harryseaess]

What a load of **** that was, utterly, utterly dreadful. He has to go, simple as that. He's a clueless *****. Moyes was a million times better than this, at least it hurt him when we played badly or didn't get the result we wanted, this guy is just an obnoxious ****.

[Icondacarver]

LVG has one year left on his contract and we seem to brief the press about the giant budget we have each transfer window, we really can afford to. Servicing the debt is a fraction of what the club is raking in.

Servicing the debt is okay but paying it down is not. The debt has actually gone up in the last 3 quarters. We have spent a lot of money and the team has actually regressed. We are better of getting the debt even lower or paid off while we are still raking in big money and then start a new era once done.

Arsenal with the right sort of ambition are in that exact position after a few deliberately barren years. We will make the mistake of having the same number of barren years but we would have spent loads of money chasing trophies that are out of reach for now.

Nothing wrong in taking a season or two to get our finances in order and then utilising ALL our money on the squad etc.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

You are making so much money on the commercial and tv side of things though, will always have big money to drop in the transfer market.

[pago]

Servicing the debt is okay but paying it down is not. The debt has actually gone up in the last 3 quarters. We have spent a lot of money and the team has actually regressed. We are better of getting the debt even lower or paid off while we are still raking in big money and then start a new era once done.

Arsenal with the right sort of ambition are in that exact position after a few deliberately barren years. We will make the mistake of having the same number of barren years but we would have spent loads of money chasing trophies that are out of reach for now.

Nothing wrong in taking a season or two to get our finances in order and then utilising ALL our money on the squad etc.

I'd say the The trouble with this is that it's now more difficult to get top 4 and so arsenal did it at the right time. A barren couple of years taking the hit will probably mean we don't get top 4 each year and that is essentially the key to continue success both in terms of cash and attracting players. One season out of top 4 isn't awful in terms of attracting players but two in a row is not good.

[craigcwwe]

Ben Pearson has joined Preston on a permanent deal, undisclosed fee.

[Kawee]

I'd say the The trouble with this is that it's now more difficult to get top 4 and so arsenal did it at the right time. A barren couple of years taking the hit will probably mean we don't get top 4 each year and that is essentially the key to continue success both in terms of cash and attracting players. One season out of top 4 isn't awful in terms of attracting players but two in a row is not good.

There is never a good time. When we did it, Liverpool, Man Utd, and Chelsea were very strong. This was during the time when English teams use to do very well in the UCL as well. Spurs, was our biggest rivel in a number of seasons.

To try and get top 4 with net zero spend is extremely difficult in any given year. The main reasons we pulled it off was our manager, and the massive wage outlay, which is a better predictor of final positions anyway.

I don't think Man Utd have to go down similar path though. It's not like you'll have to sell Rooney (in a universe where he was still playing well, and demanding a move) to offset any buy like we did. A cut-back season for Man Utd, I suspect, will look more like Moyes season in terms of net spend? You'll have to concentrate more on youth, make only one big signing, and somehow pull off a couple good cheap deals here and there.

[Redshift]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/10/louis-van-gaal-accuses-juan-mata-of-disobeying-manchester-uniteds-tactics-against-sheffield-united-5613307/

Mata didn't obey orders? cutting isnide is what happens when you play a player whos best in the middle, on the wing.

play wingers if you want width... BASICS.

oh and no overlapping fullbacks.... again LvG's fault

Ffs, the guy is an absolute numpty. I wish he would go soon.

[Icondacarver]

There is never a good time. When we did it, Liverpool, Man Utd, and Chelsea were very strong. This was during the time when English teams use to do very well in the UCL as well. Spurs, was our biggest rivel in a number of seasons.

To try and get top 4 with net zero spend is extremely difficult in any given year. The main reasons we pulled it off was our manager, and the massive wage outlay, which is a better predictor of final positions anyway.

I don't think Man Utd have to go down similar path though. It's not like you'll have to sell Rooney (in a universe where he was still playing well, and demanding a move) to offset any buy like we did. A cut-back season for Man Utd, I suspect, will look more like Moyes season in terms of net spend? You'll have to concentrate more on youth, make only one big signing, and somehow pull off a couple good cheap deals here and there.

Basically this, we would see less of the Di Maria and signings like that and more at the Rojo, Darmian, Blind end of the market.

I would argue this is the best time to do it. Our key earnings are coming from sponsors who are tied in to 4 or 5 year deals rather than CL football or prize money. We can focus on paying down the debt and making do until its gone and then from that point onwards all money we make is split between Glazers pockets and players.

A sobering thought is we could have cleared our debt completely if we stayed still in the last 3 windows. We would probably not be much worse off than now.

[ddidiodion]

Not really, it's about buying the right players. Buying Stones for £40m is better value than buying two inferior players like Rojo or Blind MKII for £18m each.

I think it's much more at our current situation we need to be buying players with something to prove, regardless of how much money they cost (or as RvP showed, age), that is the key consideration. An in form Di Maria is exactly the player we needed when we signed him, but in reality we were never going to get him at that level of motivation.

[Gizzy]

Derby away in the Cup. Nice draw

[craigcwwe]

Derby away in the Cup. Nice draw

Is it?

Considering we got KO'd of the LC by Boro I'd say this isnt a 'nice draw' sure it could have been harder but it will probably be a draw and replay at OT as Derby are a good side and near the top of the Championship, just like Boro when they beat us at home.

[Coldberg]

Saves me £74 so it's very nice.

[Roy Race 9]

Derby away in the Cup. Nice draw

for derby:D

[sebsy]

Yeah, I'm not sure we can struggle to a 1-0 home win against League 1 Sheffield United via a penalty in the dying minutes and then proclaim an away tie to the team second in the Championship as a nice draw

[Sid1984]

Any away tie is a nice draw for season ticket holders

[Roy Race 9]

see LVG has said today ground was emptying early due to traffic issues;)

got to say he is in classic denial

[Pangaea]

Ben Pearson has joined Preston on a permanent deal, undisclosed fee.

Extremely disappointing. The fee is thought to be only £100,000, which quite frankly is ridiculous. But then we are clueless at selling players post-Ronaldo.

Wish him the best of luck in Preston, but I'm disgruntled at him never getting a chance here.

[RSB]

see LVG has said today ground was emptying early due to traffic issues;)

got to say he is in classic denial

He's also qualified his happiness with the win being in part due to us only having 10 and a half men due to Schweinsteiger's injury (... in the 82nd minute).

Christ, just seen the latest from the presser from Danny Taylor...

"There are also matches where I’m very bored or angry because we are not disorganising our opponent’s defence but that is football."

"We can’t always play fantastic football... I’m sorry about that, but it is like that."

So even he's bored but he doesn't know how to change it. Also rather worryingly said that Newcastle are playing well. That's three defeats on the bounce Newcastle. Relegation zone Newcastle. Not sure on their possession stats mind.

[Roy Race 9]

its a worry as he should be coming out all guns blazing to blow a poor Newcastle side away...instead I have the feeling a drag 0-0 is now acceptable

I want to stick by our manager but he is a bluffer and has been found out/ there is no philosophy that just sounds good for press/ his methods are old and outdated he was a success many years ago he wont be now/also he is clear in that he is going at the end of his contract so we will have to get a replacement then so if the best options are available do it now, the best 1 to me Ancelotti has been snapped up

so it looks like the plan is giggs who should never get it yet no experience and is going to be entrenched by the time LVG leaves with mediocrity

.............the strange thing is LVG may well have been a good choice to replace SAF initially(as the top managers didn't want to do it, it was a poisoned chalice) as the seniors players may have had respect for him and he may well have got a tune out of them

[Bagpuss]

Saves me £74 so it's very nice.

Two tickets? Seems bloody expensive for just the one being there have been no major price increases since i gave up my ST.

[Timmy Howard]

He's also qualified his happiness with the win being in part due to us only having 10 and a half men due to Schweinsteiger's injury (... in the 82nd minute).

Christ, just seen the latest from the presser from Danny Taylor...

"There are also matches where I’m very bored or angry because we are not disorganising our opponent’s defence but that is football."

"We can’t always play fantastic football... I’m sorry about that, but it is like that."

So even he's bored but he doesn't know how to change it. Also rather worryingly said that Newcastle are playing well. That's three defeats on the bounce Newcastle. Relegation zone Newcastle. Not sure on their possession stats mind.

Lets not forget "The fans should be happy as we've got two wins in a row".

Yeah, against Swansea and a League One club via a last minute penalty. I'm ecstatic Louis.

Even Moyes wasn't this stupid with some of the stuff he said.

[Gizzy]

Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things with LVG, but he didn't mean bored. I've heard the interview and bored didn't fit. Another language mistake from him. Frustrated was more the word he was looking for.

[Pangaea]

Interesting that Moyes was mentioned, because this actually reminds me a lot of Moyes. Not the football (we were good against small teams and got ripped asunder against the good ones, and never this boring), but the over the top criticism of almost anything LVG says or does. Most likely an indicator of the fans having lost patience, so now it doesn't matter much what LVG says, or indeed does, he will get criticised. I have for instance seen pretty heavy criticism of sending Januzaj on loan to Dortmund -- which LVG warned against, but Januzaj wanted to go there, hence not LVG's call. Moyes also got vilified for various things he said, and the same now happens to LVG. Should also be said that some of the things he has reportedly said, has been taken a bit out of context, like the stuff about traffic and fans leaving. That short bit looks worse than the full sentence he actually said. Not great in either case, mind you!

I'm saying this more as an observation than a defence of the man, but I do think some of what he gets criticised for now can be rather over the top. The main thing is that our football is boring and doesn't look to improve much, and lately results have also been poor. Criticising him for that is fair game IMO, but whether he says this or that phrase in a press conference (that I'm sure all managers hate, and can't wait to get out of), and whether he shouts and runs around on the sidelines or not, is more iffy terrain. Like I said, similar to the last months of Moyes, when anything he did was criticised, and often heavily so.

Whether this turns out to be some of the last months of LVG remains to be seen. I suspect he isn't under as heavy pressure as the media will want us to believe, but that will change unless results improve. However, if the alternative to LVG is Moaninho, then I'd much rather have LVG boring us to tears, but giving youths chances. I'd hate to see Moaninho take over and put a spear through the heart of the academy.

On that note, I'm tempted to quote from one of a few shining lights over at RageCafe, khoazany:

He's [Timothy Fosu-Mensah] belong to the Januzaj/Pereira type of talent that you know for sure that they will be given chances in the first team regardless of the management at the club unless you have an extreme anti-youth like Mourinho.His physicality will be useful for his adaption to first team football however he's quite new to the CM role so inconsistency is to be expected.Nobody can predict how far they will go especially with the uncertainty at the club at the moment which unlikely will change in the near future but the raw attributes are there.

It's actually very easy to spot those whom the academy staffs think are special - they often play ahead of their age group unless they have serious injuries in their younger ages or are late developer like Scholes or Lingard (no,Lingard wasn't belong to that category).Currently those who are getting that treatment are Fosu-Mensah,Tuanzebe,Gribbin,Williams,Rashford,Gomes and Reid (though Reid might due to shortage of players in the U21s).In the past 2-3 years Januzaj/Pereira/Wilson all got their early promotion to the U18/21s and have been given chances in the first team (you can argue that they should be given more or less chances but that's for another thread).

Pearson, despite being a lovely player to watch and probably will be fan favorites whichever club he goes to, is one level down that calibre of talent at least.You have that kind of players making it at the club from times to times (O'Shea etc and Lingard could be one) but there's a lot of factors behind it such as managerial preference,right timing,right mentality,how "fit" they are to English football and the EPL,etc,..People often think too simple about youth promotion - the kid is either good enough or not good enough - when environment often play a very important role as well.

Can be useful to have in mind before youths are practically written off after a few bad games, or indeed even "world class" after a few good ones.

[Crplz]

Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things with LVG, but he didn't mean bored. I've heard the interview and bored didn't fit. Another language mistake from him. Frustrated was more the word he was looking for.

If you could read minds, you'd be a gazillionaire.

[scott MUFC]

LvG is bored? well at least he can do something about it

[craigcwwe]

Vidic has had his contract terminated at Inter, I'd have him back at OT for the remainder of the season for sure. Defintely could do a job for us for a few months I reckon, especially with us in the EL now.

[Icelander83]

This is the same Vidic who's not played a single minute of football this season due to injury?

[metal_guitarist]

Liam Grimshaw joining Ben Pearson at Preston on a permanent deal. Stockpiling our youth products it seems over there. Sam Johnstone is also there on loan

[ddidiodion]

Might be decent enough from an organisational front allowing Smalling to do the rest of the defending but honestly we don't need him, he's injured and even more vulnerable than Blind on the counter attack now.

[craigcwwe]

This is the same Vidic who's not played a single minute of football this season due to injury?

Has he not? Guess that's why they are letting him go then.

[sebsy]

Yeah, we're in desperate times atm but I don't think we're close to those levels of desperation.

[metal_guitarist]

James Weir is in the match day squad, another potential debutant

[Sid1984]

At this point in time, as long LVG is in charge I really don't care anymore. His disgusting anti-football is just an aim to stifle our opponents and it doesn't even work, it just turns the match into a borefest for everyone involved.

[Taz & The Devil]

De Gea, Young, Smalling, Blind, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Lingard, Herrera, Martial, Rooney

[Heartwork]

Expecting another borefest. Hopefully BT Sport will occasionally update on Palace's game so it doesn't bore me to sleep again

[Taz & The Devil]

I dont get Van Gaal. He likes a possession based game and then plays Fellaini who doesnt fit that system at all and has looked poor in it. And then the Young at RB and Darmian at Left back baffles. Young attacks well down the left and Darmian better down the right. His own decisions just look daft and hamstring chances of a good attacking performance.

[akura]

If we can get a big result out of any team, it's got to be Newcastle.

[Sid1984]

Under LVG, our most attractive football is when we aimlessly lump the ball onto fellaini's head, it is a huge improvement on the anti football sideways passing game.

[Bren24]

We've only taken 6 subs

[sebsy]

It's at the stage where I don't go in to any game now thinking 'this could be one where we could score 3 or 4'. I'd almost take a 0-0 draw away at Newcastle given our recent results and performances, though obviously I'd be looking just to take a 1-0 win.