Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 On Ronaldo's debut I said he'd be the best player in the world one day, as did a lot of other people. I don't think anyone has said that about Januzaj.. When United laboured and searched for an answer to the problems created by Sunderland's first-half lead, it was not to Wayne Rooney or Robin van Persie they turned. The most exalted names in world football took a step back for a player of whom little was known three months ago. It was to Januzaj that United owed a debt of gratitude as the callow teenager reasserted their wavering authority in this game. You had to cast your mind back to a young Ronaldo at Old Trafford 10 years ago to think of a similar impact made by a United player on his full debut This was the kind of stuff written by papers about Januzaj debut at 18. Someone who knows the wizadry of this thread should trawl through the old United thread and see what we were all saying on 5th October 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/382888-The-Manchester-United-Thread-Joke-Free-(ish)?p=9066372&viewfull=1#post9066372 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 4 great goals in that match. Januzaj's probably the best, though. Great strike. Was a bit Ronaldo-esque in his technique there, the shooting foot doesn't follow through, but still a rocket. If we lose that guy...... Seriously. I wish he was 2 years older. Kid looks very, very good. Adnan \o/. Hopefully the risk pays off. Really like that team. So delighted that Adnan has signed. I have no doubts that Adnan will play for Real/Barca one day. Just a matter of how long can we keep onto him first. Januzaj IS getting the chances (and taking them really well so far), so we can just cross our fingers and hope he doesn't have the same mentality and agent Pogba does. He looks special, even at this level. Send him a 5 year contract with a blank weekly sum... If it wasn't for Adnan I wouldn't bother with the second half. it just seems to be that everyone is playing so *****. only exception is Adnan again who is about the only one creating anything Only positives, yet again, have been Nani and Adnan. We loved us some Belgian teenager. I could have added ten more tbh but they were pretty much just Adnan and \o/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/382888-The-Manchester-United-Thread-Joke-Free-(ish)?p=9066372&viewfull=1#post9066372 Danke!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Actually just reading that and I was quite harsh on old Moyesy. I was not as nice and defensive about him as some made out, I was just as bad as the rest of you turncoats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Are the club threads from 08-09 still kicking about anywhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 football forum vault, I'd imagine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal_guitarist Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Are the club threads from 08-09 still kicking about anywhere? Yep: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/39210-The-Manchester-United-Thread-Does-exactly-what-it-says-on-the-tin Got 07:08 as well: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/21800-The-Manchester-United-Thread-2007-08-Home-of-the-Champions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Ah nice, just wanted to see what the reactions to Macheda and Welbeck were in their first few games. Will have a search when I'm not on my phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The Manchester United Thread 2008/2009 - Champions of England, Champions of Europe The Manchester United Thread - Does exactly what it says on the tin Manchester United FC 2009/10 Manchester United 2010/2011 - Sitting on a perch with our trophy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Ah nice, just wanted to see what the reactions to Macheda and Welbeck were in their first few games. Will have a search when I'm not on my phone. You will see a lovely debate with me saying Welbeck had more potential than Macheda and a very vocal group shouting me down. The highlight being "Welbeck is useless in the air" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 You will see a lovely debate with me saying Welbeck had more potential than Macheda and a very vocal group shouting me down. The highlight being "Welbeck is useless in the air" Macheda is similar to Januzaj (although definitely not as talented), lots of apparent ability but lacks something putting it all together and applying it on the pitch at the top level, namely the physical attributes. It's why Welbeck found the step up far easier, pace and power aren't usually glamourous things in a youth player but they're very handy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think Januzaj has demonstrated far more intelligence both at senior level and below. Kiko mightn't've had Welbeck's power at driving past people but he did have a decent frame and was technically adept. Said at the time we got it the wrong way round sending Welbz on loan in 09/10 and keeping Kiko around. Mickey's wheels were always going to fall off which left us with Macheda sitting in Ryan Nelson's pocket for and hour or so while Berba toiled at Ewood. Desperately needed to learn how to operate as a centre forward against proper defenders, whereas Welbeck always had great movement in addition to his physical attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Love the title of the 10/11 thread I find the comparison of Januzaj and Macheda ridiculous. Clear as day Januzaj has more talent than Macheda did, though we were of course all pretty happy with those two crucial goals at the time. Without going into statistics and crap, I'm pretty sure Januzaj showed more in his first season for us than Macheda did in his entire United career. Some question marks about Januzaj's dedication and mentality, but the talent is clearly there. Sure would be nice with a guy like Roy Keane round right about now, nipping these primadonna tendencies in the bud. Same with Ronaldo tbh, from a different angle. It would be good for the younger players to see the best player in the club working his balls off every single day in training. Like RSB mentioned in that long-ish post, it's frustrating to see, both here and at RageCafe, players who aren't great at 20-21 being heavily criticised, and more or less pinned up as failures and "not good enough". Short of players with a physical advantage (like teenage Rooney), players ~20 rarely are finished developing, both physically and of course as a footballer. Hopefully sitting on the bench in Dortmund has been a reality check for Januzaj, and he knuckles down to win a spot in our first team. I hope he doesn't think he has "made it" because he is in the first team squad now and has a juicy contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Januzaj is clearly more talented but he has similar limitations, namely he isn't physically capable of dominating opponents at the top level either through pace of strength. That means that he has to rely on his other attributes which makes things a lot harder. Kane, one of the examples of a late developer stepped up in no small part due to the fact he became something of a unit. Januzaj isn't suddenly going to become rapid like that. It's why he fails to influence matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Absolutely. But at the same time, if he does end up being a player of some quality it is likely that we'll see him develop later for those very reasons - he'll need game time to learn how to apply his ability in lieu of a raw physical advantage; possibly offset by a greater longevity as he won't be as reliant on his physical attributes as they start to diminish later in his career. Similar to how a diminutive ginger asthmatic can have only a handful of games under his belt by his 20th birthday but still turn out alright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 And yet Scholes was already heavily influencing matches at the top level by Januzaj's age and was freakishly talented, way beyond anything Januzaj can dream of. He won't get the game time he needs because you still have to contribute, and if you aren't the risk/reward ratio is all out of whack. And if Scholes was looking to break into the United side as a wide player and not a second striker then he wouldn't have made it here because some roles are more physical than others. Januzaj just doesn't do enough in the no. 10 role to warrant a place in the side, even someone like Hazard or Messi got their big brakes out wide (and the former is usually still there) because playing as a number 10 requires far more experience and intelligence that few posses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Thankfully Januzaj has a lot more in his locker, as the saying goes, but I also think his lack of rapid pace is somewhat overstated. He is faster than he looks, although not rapid. I see his future more as a 10 or hanging striker due to his skillset and creative mind (and lack of blistering acceleration and pace), but right now his best chances will be on the wing, like with most young attacking players in our club for yonks. On a different note, it's good to see Wilson doing well in Brighton. Scored a few goals already, and generally plays well judging by reports. As usual there have been howls at redcafe about bringing him back, but it's much better for his future to get matches in the Championship than sitting on our bench and get 10 minutes a month. One of the things I like with van Gaal is that he takes somewhat bold moves like that, which is likely to weaken our team a little in the present, but make it stronger in the future. He genuinely believes in youth and gives them chances (admittedly sometimes due to injuries, but they do get chances, instead of Carrick as CB or whatever), which is going to develop them faster. Hopefully our other good prospects will be fast-tracked too, either into the first team squad semi-permanently, or on loan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Will be interesting what team we go with tomorrow. Hope it's somewhat young, though not as far as Klopp took it today (no chance of LVG doing that though). Sheffield United can be a slippery patch, but something like this would be cool to see. de gea borthwick-jackson mcnair smalling varela fellaini pereira herrera memphis rooney lingard Looks like Young, Carrick and Schneiderlin will get rested, as they reportedly weren't at the hotel for the night before a game (strange we do this for home matches, but oh well). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Scholes was not heavily influencing games at 20 and 21, his stats in those seasons are the kind that look great when viewed historically but the reality was his knack for arriving late in the box helped him look good. He was scoring goals because our system was so good at allowing him or whoever was playing that role in other games to do so. He constantly padded his stats by scoring in matches where we ran up scores of 3 or more and actually only had less than 20 starts that breakthrough season. Our team was just so good, we could integrate him seamlessly but at that point Butt was getting more game time than him and running the midfield but Scholes would end up on the scoresheet and get the headlines as his role dictated His actual dominance started in 97 IMO when he started dictating the play and looking less like a good player and more like a world class one. That said, he was near on 23 by that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 My memory as a youngster was how much they were clamouring for him to become a striker. He could finish and his goal record was good but he was not doing much in the middle yet kept getting goals. He used to be referred to as a striker in some match reports as well I loved Andy cole and I remember when a paper ran that Scholes or Cole piece about who should play upfront and they advocated Scholes. Part of the argument was he did not have what it took to be a driving force in midfield and was better suited to being a striker. Probably then, no one thought he would turn into such a world class midfielder except SAF and Scholes himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 And yet Scholes was already heavily influencing matches at the top level by Januzaj's age and was freakishly talented, way beyond anything Januzaj can dream of. ... leaving a nice healthy buffer into which a thoroughly decent and useful if not world beating player could well emerge. My memory as a youngster was how much they were clamouring for him to become a striker. He could finish and his goal record was good but he was not doing much in the middle yet kept getting goals. He used to be referred to as a striker in some match reports as well I loved Andy cole and I remember when a paper ran that Scholes or Cole piece about who should play upfront and they advocated Scholes. Part of the argument was he did not have what it took to be a driving force in midfield and was better suited to being a striker. Probably then, no one thought he would turn into such a world class midfielder except SAF and Scholes himself. He was a striker for the reserves, think he had been throughout but when he didn't develop physically that kind of went out of the window. Becoming the best passer in the world didn't hurt either mind. Butt on the other hand was a number 10, 'the Cantona of the Pontins League'. Remember Harrison speaking of his bafflement that he didn't get more goals in the first team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Scholes was not heavily influencing games at 20 and 21, his stats in those seasons are the kind that look great when viewed historically but the reality was his knack for arriving late in the box helped him look good. He was scoring goals because our system was so good at allowing him or whoever was playing that role in other games to do so. He constantly padded his stats by scoring in matches where we ran up scores of 3 or more and actually only had less than 20 starts that breakthrough season. Our team was just so good, we could integrate him seamlessly but at that point Butt was getting more game time than him and running the midfield but Scholes would end up on the scoresheet and get the headlines as his role dictated His actual dominance started in 97 IMO when he started dictating the play and looking less like a good player and more like a world class one. That said, he was near on 23 by that point. Again, conflating consistency with the ability to do brilliant things in isolation. Scholes wasn't consistently dominating midfields until he was in his 30's, his role before then never demanded it because he was always alongside Keane or Butt or both, his role was providing those critical moments of brilliance. Something he showed he was capable of sporadically even as a youngster to a degree Januzaj isn't even remotely close to. That's the difference and it's undeniable. ... leaving a nice healthy buffer into which a thoroughly decent and useful if not world beating player could well emerge. Except he needs games, and he's not performing at a level that justifies that in any team with any ambition. You don't weaken your side for 2 years to give a player who doesn't have a good chance of being a world beater, especially when you can't afford to carry them like we can't right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Except he needs games, and he's not performing at a level that justifies that in any team with any ambition. You don't weaken your side for 2 years to give a player who doesn't have a good chance of being a world beater, especially when you can't afford to carry them like we can't right now. You don't deliberately permanently weaken your side for a player you know won't reach a certain level, no. But you do balance the risk/reward to give players a chance to demonstrate where they can get to. Januzaj has a bigger upside than either Lingard or Pereira, who have 18 appearances between them so far this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 If we can afford to give game-time to Lingard, McNair and Valencia, we can definitely give game time to Adnan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lingard has a utility role maybe, the others shouldn't be in the squad anyway so that is further illustration of the point. If we play Januzaj for the next 18 months without buying a top quality wide player it wont matter if he doesn't turn out to be great, that wont be the quality of player we need anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lingard needs to improve his shot accuracy if we were to play him over Adnan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Rumours starting to go around that Man Utd have approached Blanc to take over next season. Would Larry White be better than LvG? He's a former United player so will know what is expected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshotbg Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I was wondering when his name would come up, sounds like a logical choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Yeah rumours kicked off cos some French outlets started reporting on United approaching PSG over it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryseaess Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 I would be happy with Blanc if we can't get Pep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I hope we play our strongest team tonight. We can't afford to be resting players when a lose would be terrible for the team. We need confidence and a win helps with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 cant afford to lose to a terrible team with a full strength either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I would be happy with Blanc if we can't get Pep. People on Redcafe seem to be split over him. Mostly cos they think PSG is a club anyone can win at without considering his time at Bordeaux, and because of his average 2 years at United right at the end of his playing career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 maybe... he has always been highly rated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I think he took the France job way too early, it wasn't the right time for him. He still had a near 60% win percentage though which is the worst he's had at any of his jobs and that's not something to be scoffed at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio_V Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Why would he leave PSG? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Boredom (a la Pep)? Can get boring winning the same competition over and over again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio_V Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 He has CL to win and a much better side to do it with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Well he's lined up for the end of the season, not right now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Boredom (a la Pep)? Can get boring winning the same competition over and over again Thats the problem with these younger coaches these days. I'm glad SAF didn't feel the same Couldn't imagine myself getting bored of being successful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 That's cos SAF kept rebuilding his side when they got really successful, thus providing a new challenge for a new squad. These other managers don't do an awful lot of rebuilding with youngsters which takes away the challenge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio_V Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Well he's lined up for the end of the season, not right now I don't see him leaving for our squad at the end of the season unless he were to win the CL. Then Maybe he wants a new challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 By the way, Wayne Rooney on Star Wars is a must watch: http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/my-jedi-master-was-alan-stubbs-hahahahahaha-oh-my-god-401?utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=viceuk&utm_medium=social Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 De Gea Darmian Smalling Blind BJ Schweinsteiger Fellaini Herrera Mata Rooney Martial subs: Romero, McNair, Varela, Lingard, Pereira, Memphis, Keane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Holy **** Darmian's playing Right Back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Fellaini Would rather play with 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal_guitarist Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ashley Fletcher has just scored on his debut for Barnsley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Kinda surprised to see Will Keane on the bench Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
managerdude_66 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Would love to have seen Januzaj gain some match fitness today. Not even on the bench! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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