Counter 4-2-3-1 Wide formation

[atherton93]

Hi All,

I've recently started Dafuge's challenge with Dulwich Hamlet in the Conference South.

Whilst I would really like to play a possession-based game, given the poor quality of players at my disposal I thought I'd be better off going for a more counter attacking tactic, whereby I sit deep and then attack with quick wingers to cross to my target man. I haven't started awfully, and I am 18th after 24 games, however after my recent 4-0 loss I decided to delve into the game performance information and noticed more than a few concerning areas.

Offensively

Given my counter attacking approach, I am reliant on my wingers bombing forward and delivering plenty of crosses into the box for my target man, yet I find that over 90 minutes between my wingers and full backs manage 1 completed cross and just 11 attempted. So I thought I'd look back on a few past games to make sure it wasn't a one off...

Evidently my wide players just aren't providing my striker with the service he needs. Obviously I could use the 'Cross More Often' PI but I was just wondering if there was anything more I could do to improve this?

My chance creating is also very low, and most games struggle to create one half chance let alone a clear cut chance. Reflecting on this now I am considering changing my Attacking Midfielder into an Advanced Playmaker to try and create opportunities. Thoughts?

[atherton93]

Defensively

Even just at first glance, it looks a grim picture, however if we investigate further...

So their first goal starts as above. A cross (which looks marginally offside) hits my centre back and then

Their player shoots from the edge of the area. This then cannons off the bar...

for their striker (although he's a centre back they were playing him up top!?) to tap in from 6 yards out.

Moving onto their second goal, which probably the most frustrating as we have conceded 22 of out 45 goals from crosses so far.

Long ball over the top from their full back.

I think the screenshot above underlines my issues of conceding from crosses. I have 5 players back, yet not one of them appears to be aware of their striker. And well, I'm sure the last screenshot to this goal is predictable enough.

I'll leave it there as I don't want to flood the thread with screenshots, but hopefully I've provided enough detail for some decent feedback

[Jambo98]

A few thoughts:

Offensively

I understand what you are trying to do, but i think some of your roles and duties might not be right for achieving it:

- The us of a TM encourages the entire team to play long balls towards him. This then reduces the chance that any supply will reach your wingers, because players will look to go direct to the TM from the back, which is not what you want

- Likewise the use of LD will lead to them just "lumping" the ball away which will mean lots of lost possession (even though you have the TI "Clear to flanks", the LD will negate that a bit and also do you really have the players to produce a ball from defence to the high points your wingers are starting from?

- You should remember that crossing is a low % chance at any point. Even the best teams in the EPL will only get between 20 and 25% completion rates, and you are considerably worse than those teams. You cant really expect more than maybe 15% completion rate? (although iirc the stat in FM is flawed because it includes corners?)

- The chances of a cross being completed successfully will increase and reduce based on the bodies in the box to aim for. In your case, that will almost always be one single player, which doesnt really give you much of a chance.

- If you really want to play a crossing game, then some PI and TI controlling it would be expected? EG if its for a big man and he isnt fast, then perhaps "floated crosses" - You have 4 players to potentially deliver crosses (since you are playing wingbacks), but where do you want them all to cross from? At the lowest level of football, where you are, there wont be much in the way of PPMs or indeed decision making so you might want to guide them on this a bit more

- Counter mentality might not actually be what you are after since it encourages a slow and patient type of play. You have offset that somewhat with "higher tempo" and "direct passing" but if you find its still a bit low risk and players not opting to get the ball out to your wingers quickly enough you might consider if your mentality is the cause?

Defensively

- Its not a surprise that your fodder for attacks from the wings. You have 2 pretty attacking roles at fullback, and 2 attacking wingers who are playing in the AM strata so basically acting as wide strikers. You will easily get taken advantage of, particularly when you probably turn over possession quite a bit.

- Your BWM will be pressing, and that might work in theory because alongside is a non pressing DLP - I suppose you could think that one goes chasing, the other sits and protects. The problem might be that overally your not setup to do any kind of pressing for the rest of the team, so the BWM doing it on his own might just be a waste of his energy? What are his interception stats like and where do they happen?

- Since your playing dafuge's, then this must be a newly promoted team? So in turn, you probably have one of the worst squads in the league? There is probably something in there about having reasonable expectations. To finish 18th with a newly promoted conference north/south team (i assume south?) is still a bit of an over achievement likely

- Tied to the above, accept that you will have quite rubbish defenders so you will concede silly goals. Try to improve the players best you can - maybe look for one guy who is just big and tall and sacrafice other parts of his game. Alongside maybe someone with anticipation and positioning? Might help with crosses.

Overall i think you can work on quite a few things. Even just looking at the screenshots the shape doesnt look great to me. Depends what shape you like to see when attacking/defending of course

[atherton93]

A few thoughts:

Offensively

I understand what you are trying to do, but i think some of your roles and duties might not be right for achieving it:

- The us of a TM encourages the entire team to play long balls towards him. This then reduces the chance that any supply will reach your wingers, because players will look to go direct to the TM from the back, which is not what you want

- Likewise the use of LD will lead to them just "lumping" the ball away which will mean lots of lost possession (even though you have the TI "Clear to flanks", the LD will negate that a bit and also do you really have the players to produce a ball from defence to the high points your wingers are starting from?

- You should remember that crossing is a low % chance at any point. Even the best teams in the EPL will only get between 20 and 25% completion rates, and you are considerably worse than those teams. You cant really expect more than maybe 15% completion rate? (although iirc the stat in FM is flawed because it includes corners?)

- The chances of a cross being completed successfully will increase and reduce based on the bodies in the box to aim for. In your case, that will almost always be one single player, which doesnt really give you much of a chance.

- If you really want to play a crossing game, then some PI and TI controlling it would be expected? EG if its for a big man and he isnt fast, then perhaps "floated crosses" - You have 4 players to potentially deliver crosses (since you are playing wingbacks), but where do you want them all to cross from? At the lowest level of football, where you are, there wont be much in the way of PPMs or indeed decision making so you might want to guide them on this a bit more

- Counter mentality might not actually be what you are after since it encourages a slow and patient type of play. You have offset that somewhat with "higher tempo" and "direct passing" but if you find its still a bit low risk and players not opting to get the ball out to your wingers quickly enough you might consider if your mentality is the cause?

Defensively

- Its not a surprise that your fodder for attacks from the wings. You have 2 pretty attacking roles at fullback, and 2 attacking wingers who are playing in the AM strata so basically acting as wide strikers. You will easily get taken advantage of, particularly when you probably turn over possession quite a bit.

- Your BWM will be pressing, and that might work in theory because alongside is a non pressing DLP - I suppose you could think that one goes chasing, the other sits and protects. The problem might be that overally your not setup to do any kind of pressing for the rest of the team, so the BWM doing it on his own might just be a waste of his energy? What are his interception stats like and where do they happen?

- Since your playing dafuge's, then this must be a newly promoted team? So in turn, you probably have one of the worst squads in the league? There is probably something in there about having reasonable expectations. To finish 18th with a newly promoted conference north/south team (i assume south?) is still a bit of an over achievement likely

- Tied to the above, accept that you will have quite rubbish defenders so you will concede silly goals. Try to improve the players best you can - maybe look for one guy who is just big and tall and sacrafice other parts of his game. Alongside maybe someone with anticipation and positioning? Might help with crosses.

Overall i think you can work on quite a few things. Even just looking at the screenshots the shape doesnt look great to me. Depends what shape you like to see when attacking/defending of course

Thanks for your reply Jambo

I will take your advice on board and plan to do the following:

- Change my TM to an AF to try and reduce the number of balls pumped up to him

- Make me centre backs central defenders so they are less likely to hoof it upfield, and add PI to 'less risky passes'

- Play a flat back four, rather than have wingbacks, to help with the crossing issue

- Switch mentality to standard, but keep 'Higher Tempo' and 'Direct Passing' to increase their urgency once in possession

- Turn my DLP into an Anchorman give the defense better protection and switch my BWM to support to help with counter attacking opportunities

Hopefully this will give me some more joy. I'm currently compiling a spreadsheet for all my player attributes and information to allow me to assign duties and roles more precisely. I'll give an update after 5-10 games

[Jean0987654321]

I think you need a DLP in that pivot to start a counterattack. There has to be a creator from deep. Maybe try DLP(s)-A(d) or REG(s)-A(d) or DLP(d)-BWM(s) as your pivots??

[atherton93]

Think it's fair to say I've seen little improvement.

Looking back, I've stopped conceding from crosses but most goals are now coming as a result of their players having far too much time and space in my box. Tighter marking could be an obvious fix here, but I'm unsure on Close Down More.

[Jean0987654321]

In a counterattacking style of play, I would not use Float Crosses. Float Crosses are hoofball-esque. Whipped or Low Crosses would be my choice. Also, I think you are inviting too much pressure by Close Down Less. I think you should read the counterattacking thread(link). You should take a gander in that thread if you are confused

[atherton93]

In a counterattacking style of play, I would not use Float Crosses. Float Crosses are hoofball-esque. Whipped or Low Crosses would be my choice. Also, I think you are inviting too much pressure by Close Down Less. I think you should read the counterattacking thread(link). You should take a gander in that thread if you are confused

Thank you for this. It's interesting to know that the mentality 'Counter' actually adds some TI by default and so manually putting the TI you think is applicable to counter-attacking can often be overkill.

[atherton93]

Another game, another absolute hammering. May have to scrap the counter-attacking approach as it's proving near impossible to get anything from games.

[Jambo98]

Thank you for this. It's interesting to know that the mentality 'Counter' actually adds some TI by default and so manually putting the TI you think is applicable to counter-attacking can often be overkill.

All the mentalities add TI's in effect (other than standard). Its why they are in the game, they are effectively preset "templates"

Your "new" tactic looks more solid, although i notice you kept the target man in place? Does that not mean you have the same problems with everything being lumped his way? Also what is that player like out of interest?

One thing i found in the lower leagues, is that long shots arent always a bad thing. Unlike at higher levels where keepers will generally save most long shots, the keepers at the bottom levels can be utterly woeful. Hit and hope has its place in LLM The one and only time i ever used the TI "shoot on sight" since its been in FM was in the Scottish Second Division, and it was useful.

[atherton93]

I was relegated last game of the season, so have started again with Redditch. I'll have a play around with tactics during pre-season and hopefully give an update after 5-10 games. I'm still unsure on taking a counter-attacking approach as I don't want to invite pressure on, so some TI adjustments may have to be made if I use the 'Counter' mentality.

[atherton93]

Out of interest, has anyone tried playing with no TI and just using a mentality?

[Taipan]

Out of interest, has anyone tried playing with no TI and just using a mentality?

This is what I do with any new tactic.

Unless you have a very good understanding of mentalities & TI’s and also know what the knock-on effect of combining TI’s can be, it is much wiser to build your tactic from the ground up. With any new tactic I always have an vision of what I am trying to achieve on the pitch, be it Short Passing/Long Passing, Possession/Long Game ect. I then look at my players and ask myself, can these players play my vision successfully on the pitch? I then create my new tactic with no TI's/PI’s as my starting point. Too many people rush through pre-season, trying to get to the first game.. In pre-season there are no points up for grabs, so pre-season is the golden time where you experiment and find out strengths/weaknesses of your new tactic and modify/react accordingly. By the end of the third friendly you should of realised your created chances were low and done some changes/experimentation there and then. Waiting until there are league points on offer means you have missed the bus and now you find yourself right behind the eight ball.

I always all my friendlies for the full 90 minutes to get an idea of what is happening with the tactic, jotting down notes as I go through the games. I find watching your tactic totally bare bones with no TI's or PI's in your first friendly gives you a greater understanding of what the base tactic can/can't do. From there you start adding TI's one layer per game, and again watch for the full 90 minutes jotting down notes on what needs to be changed or added for game three. Add another TI layer, do some player role tweaking, play another friendly. In this way you are building the tactic from the ground up, having a much much better understanding of your tactic's strengths and weaknesses and the players you are trying to shoehorn into it. You can usually squeeze 12 games in between season unless you have a very short player roster, and by the end of twelve games you will have built your tactic , and be close to being fluid in most areas and be confident of the players playing the roles within your tactic. LLM training restrictions will mean all areas might not be at the fluid level, but you will be pretty close.

[RTHerringbone]

Out of interest, has anyone tried playing with no TI and just using a mentality?

Yep. It's a highly advisable start point when setting up new tactics as it let's you see how your Roles and Duties are interacting. I highly recommend starting a throwaway FMC save where you just mess about tactically. It has no tactic familiarity to build up, so is an excellent way to test new ideas. It's all I do at the moment.

[Rashidi]

Out of interest, has anyone tried playing with no TI and just using a mentality?

Yes I was doing this a lot in the old days when the TC was new, and even sometimes now when I want to understand how a new role interacts with the rest. Ideally, you should factor in players PIs as well so that you can understand the baseline. Once you understand how your tactics play out you can start using TI's. Tis should never be used when you doubt their use, in fact I would venture to say that you could have a successful career without the use of Tis, provided your system is sound.

[Option]

This is what I do with any new tactic.

Unless you have a very good understanding of mentalities & TI’s and also know what the knock-on effect of combining TI’s can be, it is much wiser to build your tactic from the ground up. With any new tactic I always have an vision of what I am trying to achieve on the pitch, be it Short Passing/Long Passing, Possession/Long Game ect. I then look at my players and ask myself, can these players play my vision successfully on the pitch? I then create my new tactic with no TI's/PI’s as my starting point. Too many people rush through pre-season, trying to get to the first game.. In pre-season there are no points up for grabs, so pre-season is the golden time where you experiment and find out strengths/weaknesses of your new tactic and modify/react accordingly. By the end of the third friendly you should of realised your created chances were low and done some changes/experimentation there and then. Waiting until there are league points on offer means you have missed the bus and now you find yourself right behind the eight ball.

I always all my friendlies for the full 90 minutes to get an idea of what is happening with the tactic, jotting down notes as I go through the games. I find watching your tactic totally bare bones with no TI's or PI's in your first friendly gives you a greater understanding of what the base tactic can/can't do. From there you start adding TI's one layer per game, and again watch for the full 90 minutes jotting down notes on what needs to be changed or added for game three. Add another TI layer, do some player role tweaking, play another friendly. In this way you are building the tactic from the ground up, having a much much better understanding of your tactic's strengths and weaknesses and the players you are trying to shoehorn into it. You can usually squeeze 12 games in between season unless you have a very short player roster, and by the end of twelve games you will have built your tactic , and be close to being fluid in most areas and be confident of the players playing the roles within your tactic. LLM training restrictions will mean all areas might not be at the fluid level, but you will be pretty close.

Very interesting approach. Never done it this way to be honest, mostly because i am to inpatient to watch a hole match to evaluate the tactic. Ill give this a shot though.

Thanks for writing this Taipan.

[Option]

Yep. It's a highly advisable start point when setting up new tactics as it let's you see how your Roles and Duties are interacting. I highly recommend starting a throwaway FMC save where you just mess about tactically. It has no tactic familiarity to build up, so is an excellent way to test new ideas. It's all I do at the moment.

Sorry, but what do you mean? Throw away FMC save? Why not mess around the tactical options in FM rather then FMC RTHerringbone?

[RTHerringbone]

Sorry, but what do you mean? Throw away FMC save? Why not mess around the tactical options in FM rather then FMC RTHerringbone?

Because there is no tactical familiarity in FMC, so you get straight up and running with a system which would otherwise take some time in FM to become fluid in all areas.

I only ever play FMC, but have several saves on the go where I have no intention of playing a long save - I just use them to test out different systems at different levels and on different continents. I'd say I spend more time on FMC just tinkering like this, than I do actually playing a main save.

[Option]

Because there is no tactical familiarity in FMC, so you get straight up and running with a system which would otherwise take some time in FM to become fluid in all areas.

I only ever play FMC, but have several saves on the go where I have no intention of playing a long save - I just use them to test out different systems at different levels and on different continents. I'd say I spend more time on FMC just tinkering like this, than I do actually playing a main save.

That is very interesting! Would save me allot of time since i usually just play to tinkering in hope to understand how everything is connected.

Ill give this a shot. Though, is everything in FMC the same as in FM? When regards to player role and duty, how they work etc. And the same with PIs/TIs.

[RTHerringbone]

That is very interesting! Would save me allot of time since i usually just play to tinkering in hope to understand how everything is connected.

Ill give this a shot. Though, is everything in FMC the same as in FM? When regards to player role and duty, how they work etc. And the same with PIs/TIs.

From a tactical point of view, you just lose the ability to assign opposition instructions. FMC uses the same Match Engine, and the Roles, Duties, TIs and PIs are all exactly the same.

[Option]

From a tactical point of view, you just lose the ability to assign opposition instructions. FMC uses the same Match Engine, and the Roles, Duties, TIs and PIs are all exactly the same.

Excellent!

I never use opposition instructions so thats not an issue.

One thing though, since i have your attention. I cant seem to get the best out of Pirlo in my Juventus save. Wanna get the most out of him in the DM position, but keep failing.

Could you line up a formation for me explaining how to get better use of Pirlo please? Im at the edge now of having given up and you seem to have a way better

understanding on how everything works. So frustrating.

[atherton93]

Nice to see I started a little debate.

Think I'll run through my friendlies tonight and watch the whole match with no TI and just mentality. It does make sense I suppose to see how your team plays out with no TI then make adjustments accordingly.

[atherton93]

Getting to the point where I'm no longer enjoying playing FM because it's just too hard.

[Jambo98]

Sorry, but your still playing Dafuges im assuming.

I never really understand this. You are taking a newly promoted team in the lowest level of football. How easy do you expect that to be. Really thats not a task for someone who, with the greatest of respect, isnt that sure on what they are doing tactically.

Your going to have one of the worst squads in the league, in a real low level of football. Dont you expect it to be a real struggle?

I would suggest maybe start a save at a bit of an "easier" side. Pick someone who is expected to finish maybe 8th - 12th in a big league, and see if you can take them to 5th or 6th. Learn that way.

Trying to learn where you are is a real tall order.

[Option]

Getting to the point where I'm no longer enjoying playing FM because it's just too hard.

Better start out playing with the big teams. Learn to master them and try understand (if you can manage, i know im strugling) what each instructions means etc etc.

When i figure something out, then something els comes up and bothers the crap out of me.

Right now, i cant seem to figure out why my opposition is having the same number of passes in a match as me, even though i have 60% possession. Now, im playing with juventus and barca right

now. You would assume theyr strong enough to hold onto the ball and deny any poor opposition having the same number of passes as you.

[atherton93]

I understand this, but when people are getting teams to the Premier League within 6/7 seasons...

It all just seems to come down to luck.

[RTHerringbone]

I understand this, but when people are getting teams to the Premier League within 6/7 seasons...

It all just seems to come down to luck.

It isn't luck at all. You can't always assume that people are genuinely getting promoted that rapidly; I always look at those examples and raise an Ancelotti eyebrow.

To be frank, your tactics always seem to have fundamental flaws and the results you get reflect this. I'd suggest you start a FMC save as Ajax or Paris-SG and start with no TIs. Focus on knowing how you want to attack and how you want to defend. Read the Pairs and Combinations thread to get Roles / Duties right, and wwfan's Twelve Step Guide to get the basics of "the rest" right.

[atherton93]

It isn't luck at all. You can't always assume that people are genuinely getting promoted that rapidly; I always look at those examples and raise an Ancelotti eyebrow.

To be frank, your tactics always seem to have fundamental flaws and the results you get reflect this. I'd suggest you start a FMC save as Ajax or Paris-SG and start with no TIs. Focus on knowing how you want to attack and how you want to defend. Read the Pairs and Combinations thread to get Roles / Duties right, and wwfan's Twelve Step Guide to get the basics of "the rest" right.

Okay will do. Through all my 5/6 years of playing FM, I've never once managed a big team so this should be interesting.

[Option]

I understand this, but when people are getting teams to the Premier League within 6/7 seasons...

It all just seems to come down to luck.

With those teams in the lowest league? There is very few who manage this, the rest cheats with saved and load games through the season. So dont pay to much attention to this achievement.

Myself, i have had huge success with top teams, but i never manage to bring up a team from the lowest league up to premier league etc etc, trust me ive tried many times.

[atherton93]

With those teams in the lowest league? There is very few who manage this, the rest cheats with saved and load games through the season. So dont pay to much attention to this achievement.

Myself, i have had huge success with top teams, but i never manage to bring up a team from the lowest league up to premier league etc etc, trust me ive tried many times.

Yeah I think that's what frustrates me the most. I never saw myself as a bad FM player until I saw these people taking the likes of Canvey Island to the Champions League in 10 seasons.

[Cleon]

Not everyone who can do it cheats, I don't find it that hard to do and lots of others are same. Just because you can't achieve/understand what someone else does, doesn't mean it equals cheating. I've always found it weird that people can get frustrated by what other people are doing on a single player game.

[Andrew Haines]

Not everyone who can do it cheats, I don't find it that hard to do and lots of others are same. Just because you can't achieve/understand what someone else does, doesn't mean it equals cheating. I've always found it weird that people can get frustrated by what other people are doing on a single player game.

I agree, I do a couple of dafuge's per version and will usually be in the Premiership in 10-12 seasons. It requires a sound tactic but it's more about the transfers. Once out of non-league it's not to hard to sell players for decent money and replace with better players for cheaper. My biggest challenge is staying interested. I'm yet to complete the challenge as I get fed up after a few years in the Premiership.

I don't doubt there are people who cheat but I don't think that many in the dafuge challenge are cheating. Personally I don't see why anyone would waste their life spending so many hours on a game and not play fairly...

[Option]

Not everyone who can do it cheats, I don't find it that hard to do and lots of others are same. Just because you can't achieve/understand what someone else does, doesn't mean it equals cheating. I've always found it weird that people can get frustrated by what other people are doing on a single player game.

Game wise you seem to know what you talking about, but you have no clue regarding this. I have close to 20 friends playing FM, and yes everyone is norwegian. And none of them have manage to

win CL or Premier League in 6 seasons by starting with a team from the lowest league. You might done it, and a few others, i salute you on that part. But the majority have not. And those claiming

they have, unless they have this deep understanding like you do for this game, have cheated their way to the top by saving and loading.

[RTHerringbone]

Game wise you seem to know what you talking about, but you have no clue regarding this. I have close to 20 friends playing FM, and yes everyone is norwegian. And none of them have manage to

win CL or Premier League in 6 seasons by starting with a team from the lowest league. You might done it, and a few others, i salute you on that part. But the majority have not. And those claiming

they have, unless they have this deep understanding like you do for this game, have cheated their way to the top by saving and loading.

Erm. Yeah. Cleon never suggested that the majority do achieve this, so I'm not sure why you implied that was what he was saying. What he said was that it is possible, which is quite different to saying the majority of people do it.

[Option]

I agree, I do a couple of dafuge's per version and will usually be in the Premiership in 10-12 seasons. It requires a sound tactic but it's more about the transfers. Once out of non-league it's not to hard to sell players for decent money and replace with better players for cheaper. My biggest challenge is staying interested. I'm yet to complete the challenge as I get fed up after a few years in the Premiership.

I don't doubt there are people who cheat but I don't think that many in the dafuge challenge are cheating. Personally I don't see why anyone would waste their life spending so many hours on a game and not play fairly...

You and me both. When i see someone posting ridiculous achievements you start to wonder. Im not pointing fingers, but i know for a fact those here asking so many questions, asking for help

on this and that, suddenly puts out their achievements or brag about something then couple of days later they ask for basic stuff or they are having trouble with this and that. I find it very weird

how these people could achieve to win the premier league in 6 season with a team from the lowest league system when they clearly do not have a clue what they are doing.

That much luck they do not have.

[Option]

Erm. Yeah. Cleon never suggested that the majority do achieve this, so I'm not sure why you implied that was what he was saying. What he said was that it is possible, which is quite different to saying the majority of people do it.

And i never said it was not impossible to do.

[Option]

Erm. Yeah. Cleon never suggested that the majority do achieve this, so I'm not sure why you implied that was what he was saying. What he said was that it is possible, which is quite different to saying the majority of people do it.

"Not everyone who can do it cheats" that is what Cleon responded to my "There is very few who manage this, the rest cheats".

Now Cleon should perhaps READ what i write before replying. I never said everyone who does manage to get to PL in 6season cheats. In fact, i never said those words.

And i say it again, there is very few IN HERE whom can manage this achievement, rest claiming to have done it have cheated.

[Cleon]

"Not everyone who can do it cheats" that is what Cleon responded to my "There is very few who manage this, the rest cheats".

Now Cleon should perhaps READ what i write before replying. I never said everyone who does manage to get to PL in 6season cheats. In fact, i never said those words.

And i say it again, there is very few IN HERE whom can manage this achievement, rest claiming to have done it have cheated.

Maybe you should actually read what I put and quote the whole sentence not just a snippet of it to try and fit your none argument. We can all take little bits of stuff said to twist it like you have so stop acting the arse. The important bit of the setence which you've totally dismissed was I don't find it that hard to do and lots of others are same.

You're making stuff up and saying things without actual evidence. If you are saying majority of people who achieve it are cheating then you're making it up with no actual evidence. So stop making assumptions and using your opinion as fact when it's not accurate. You are just guessing that people cheat based on that you and your 20 friends can't achieve it. All that means is that you and your 20 friends probably aren't as good as the game as you all like to think you are, nothing more. So stop with the none sense please. This isn't the forum for that kind of stuff, this is the tactics forum that offers help and aide, general section of the forums is for people who bitch and moan about the game and how people play it, it has no place in here.

Anymore and posts will be deleted.

[atherton93]

Well, that escalated quickly.

I've no doubt the game has become a lot more difficult since 11/12, when I was at university and had a solid 6 to 8 hours spare each day I could put into developing and testing a tactic. I'm probably guilty of changing a few things around and expecting miracles, as like I said, this seemed to work on older versions.

It's good that the game has become more challenging.