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Neil Brock

Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.3.0

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But HUNT3R is right, in real life players couldn't handle that, which is probably the justification you are wanting. It was possible in previous games, now it isn't, because it wasn't realistic in previous games.
. You need supremely fit players to do it on a match day, and players with excellent recovery to do it week in and week out. Most sides who do it, do it in phases during the game.

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In this version players are struggling yes. I have always deployed high-tempo tactics and in previously versions i have not seen match-fit players struggling so badly. So are you suggesting deploying high tempo tactics is not feasible in this FM? Working as intended?

No rl team can play a high tempo game all 90 minutes. Taking a "break" now and then is necessary. You'll see rl team easing it off a bit the last 15 minutes of each half, for example, or a soon as they get a comfortable lead. Previously, in FM you could get away with playing a high tempo, heavy pressing game all 90 minutes. If this now has been adjusted, I for one welcome it.

In FM you simply choose the "lower tempo" TI, or the "take a breather", which is even more effective. 2 x 5 minutes of that in each half makes wonders.

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But HUNT3R is right, in real life players couldn't handle that, which is probably the justification you are wanting. It was possible in previous games, now it isn't, because it wasn't realistic in previous games.

There are teams who play high tempo attacking and pressing football IRL throughout most of the durations in matches without struggling much physically which is quite impossible to achieve in this ME. And even with a moderate tempo, players will still struggle under the current rate of fitness deterioration if you look at my figures carefully. I do feel it's rather excessive.

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There are teams who play high tempo attacking and pressing football IRL throughout most of the durations in matches without struggling much physically which is quite impossible to achieve in this ME. And even with a moderate tempo, players will still struggle under the current rate of fitness deterioration if you look at my figures carefully. I do feel it's rather excessive.

No there isn't. There are teams that try to because they must, but they do struggle physically at the end of matches. Also; high pressing teams don't do high press all the match. They do it in intervals, or they employ the Barca/Dortmund/Bayern method of high pressure the first few seconds after they lose possession, then settle into a somewhat lower pressure. Both are methods for conserving stamina. If they didn't, they would run the risk of the other team running them over in the last minutes of the match.

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No there isn't. There are teams that try to because they must, but they do struggle physically at the end of matches. Also; high pressing teams don't do high press all the match. They do it in intervals, or they employ the Barca/Dortmund/Bayern method of high pressure the first few seconds after they lose possession, then settle into a somewhat lower pressure. Both are methods for conserving stamina. If they didn't, they would run the risk of the other team running them over in the last minutes of the match.

So do you change tempo every few seconds in FM matches? High tempo when trying to win the ball back, then switch to low tempo, then switch to high tempo again? Maybe i should try that when i have the time. But do go try using a moderate tempo tactic throughout matches, your players' condition will still drop dramatically, to the extent where they run risks of incurring injuries by the 60 min mark. Condition declination is really excessive regardless of tempo settings. Not using high tempo merely improves things very slightly.

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So do you change tempo every few seconds in FM matches? High tempo when trying to win the ball back, then switch to low tempo, then switch to high tempo again? Maybe i should try that when i have the time. But do go try using a moderate tempo tactic throughout matches, your players' condition will still drop dramatically, to the extent where they run risks of incurring injuries by the 60 min mark. Condition declination is really excessive regardless of tempo settings. Not using high tempo merely improves things very slightly.
I drop my closing down instruction if I feel the opposition will not punish me for it & it can give my players a rest, I will always reduce closing down to default or close down less if I take a 3 goal lead or have a comfortable 2 goal advantage heading into the final 20/25 minutes of a match.

It's not just closing down though, tempo, passing style, keeper distribution, team mentality & shape along with player position & instructions all get tweaks to reduce the workload as the match progresses.

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I drop my closing down instruction if I feel the opposition will not punish me for it & it can give my players a rest, I will always reduce closing down to default or close down less if I take a 3 goal lead or have a comfortable 2 goal advantage heading into the final 20/25 minutes of a match.

It's not just closing down though, tempo, passing style, keeper distribution, team mentality & shape along with player position & instructions all get tweaks to reduce the workload as the match progresses.

I also use the same methods to stretch and tire the opposition, conserving my own sides eneergy while tiring them out, then playing a high press game to capitalise on it.

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My team press heavy and use a medium-high tempo, but I do ease it off in intervals. I ease off the closing down, and instead of using lower tempo or "take a breather", I use the "retain possession" shout that has some of the same effect, with my tactics and formation. I also take things down a notch much in the same way Alex Crawford describes. I do tend to get a couple of individual players tired (fall below 70%), but then that's what I have subs for. And GeorgeD; you don't have to do this every few seconds. Once in a while will do.

One thing to note is that I use my 3 allocated tactics spaces to train my team to be fluent when the tactic settings changes. Lower tempo? They are trained and fluid with that. Lower closing down? They are trained and fluid with that. Etc.

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I also use the same methods to stretch and tire the opposition, conserving my own sides eneergy while tiring them out, then playing a high press game to capitalise on it.
I will admit that it is easier to do as I watch the full match, I imagine it is okay with comprehensive but that the level of attention required would be difficult when watching extended or key highlights.

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The main concern here is pronounced match condition declination which lead to injuries regardless of tempo settings. I have tested with passive low tempo tactics and still players end up in their 60+%s and even less should they meet up with a hard challenge in the midst of the game. And this is across the board and you can only make three subs. They thus struggle to be match fit by the next match should it be a few days away and this has a domino effect unless you have a long week's rest and really good squad depth. Granted the AI should have the same issues but injuries are definitely a problem.

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Do people really think that being tired would start to cause muscles to tear? Sure you shouldn't be able to ask teams to press heavily for 90 mins but if you did shouldn't the consequence be that they tried but couldn't because they were too tired rather than blindly pushing themselves until muscles and bones gave way? IRL cramp is the only real consequence in notice in a team trying too hard for too long.

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Do people really think that being tired would start to cause muscles to tear? Sure you shouldn't be able to ask teams to press heavily for 90 mins but if you did shouldn't the consequence be that they tried but couldn't because they were too tired rather than blindly pushing themselves until muscles and bones gave way? IRL cramp is the only real consequence in notice in a team trying too hard for too long.
Low Condition is a can be responsible for more injuries, because players are more likely to pick up injuries then.

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I play a high tempo closing down tactic which works well, pre season is where I get my players fit and ready for the up and coming season and game management is essential to stave off injuries, also making sure you have very good physios and a top fitness coach, this will aid their recovery after games. Pre season I make sure there are at least 5 days between games and at least 7-8 games, with each player in the squad getting a minimum 45mins game time, match fitness will be around 90-93% each game so less chance of injuries, only injuries I expect to get are knocks and cuts which are 2-3 days at the most. I've done this every year and never have the injury crisis some people go on about, also take a look at your players physicality, do they need extra strength/stamina etc.

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Do people really think that being tired would start to cause muscles to tear? Sure you shouldn't be able to ask teams to press heavily for 90 mins but if you did shouldn't the consequence be that they tried but couldn't because they were too tired rather than blindly pushing themselves until muscles and bones gave way? IRL cramp is the only real consequence in notice in a team trying too hard for too long.

That's not true at all. Almost all injuries in football are preventable, apart from ones sustained by bad luck (leg breaks etc.). There's a reason Arsenal have so many injuries IRL, it's because we train the players too hard and don't give them time to recover. Every Arsenal fan with any common sense knows this, we hear about it all the time, but nothing changes.

There's a reason Raymond Verheijen despises the Arsenal regime, and as much as we Arsenal fans like to belittle him, at the end of the day he's right, we don't do things in the right way.

This quote form him sums it up;

"An injury could be bad luck but that is the exception to the rule. In contact sports occasionally there is an unlucky injury but most injuries are a result of overloading the body... doing the wrong workload at the wrong time or in the wrong sequence"

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Pretty sure Van Gaal was accused of pushing Man U players too hard in training and they had a speight of injuries to key players.

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In the 15.3.0 DB (the latest one from the update) we had already changed the Cardiff home kit to blue. However, there has been a problem with the 3D Match Engine picking up the wrong kits. A solution can be found here in the 2nd post: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/421707-Fix-for-Cardiff-kits-in-15.3

Thank you Tony, forgot to say I'am playing with a edited default database 15.0.0 - still the same answer ?

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Do people really think that being tired would start to cause muscles to tear? Sure you shouldn't be able to ask teams to press heavily for 90 mins but if you did shouldn't the consequence be that they tried but couldn't because they were too tired rather than blindly pushing themselves until muscles and bones gave way? IRL cramp is the only real consequence in notice in a team trying too hard for too long.

Yes lower condition means the players are more tired.

This means they aren't as sharp, decision making is slower and the result can be bad mistimed tackles that cause collision injuries, a slip when they turn they aren't as quick to adjust so joints twist. You are probably right regarding pulls & tears that tiredness doesn't factor in as much but the injury module isn't that advanced in FM atm. All it calculates is an injury occurring (Collision or non collision) then in a weighted random sort of way picking the injury from a database.

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Let me guess, you want to know when the next update is out? There aren't any further updates planned.

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I'm sorry but where is my last post?! Can't I ask? Can't I learn?!

Your deleted post read as follows:

"We are missing FM 12. I wish SI out database update for it.. Why.. Why!"

I can only assume that it was (rightly) regarded as not being especially relevant to the thread, and so was deleted.

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I'm sorry but where is my last post?! Can't I ask? Can't I learn?!

Having just read through your post history it's amazing that 40 of your posts haven't been deleted.

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I will report a lot of bugs of goalkeepers. But if there is no thought about 15.3.1, I will not? Is this true? I can't understand? Why? Can you explain? When people are playing with bugs?!?

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I will report a lot of bugs of goalkeepers. But if there is no thought about 15.3.1, I will not? Is this true? I can't understand? Why? Can you explain? When people are playing with bugs?!?

Any reports made will be looked at for improvement in future versions.

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Any reports made will be looked at for improvement in future versions.

But your friends and Jacobson said there is no plan about 15.3.1

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But your friends and Jacobson said there is no plan about 15.3.1

I posted the same just a few posts up. :brock:

The key word is future. If there isn't an update (and it isn't planned!) then it'll be for FM16.

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I paid money for FM 15. Then i want back my monies! And... if you won't, i will sue to SI!

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I paid money for FM 15. Then i want back my monies! And... if you won't, i will sue to SI!

:lol: Oh dear.....

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Will there be a hotfix update at least in the pipeline? Just not sure why there was huge changes to the game when it was absolutely fine in 2.1? Amount of injuries, impossible to get rid of some good players in your squad and players wanting first team football when they have been rested for two games etc.

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Okay, seriously now... this thread is for feedback. Can we keep it at that, please? Any more off-topic nonsense will be deleted.

There are no more updates/hotfixes/whatever planned.

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since this update i have lost the in game steam editor which i paid for last year i cant even go to the download bit as it says it needs to be enabled to open which it is any ideas ?

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bc23bfe008aa0a2c32cbae7565b8c2ed.png

Has anyone managed to tutor a player since the new patch? I get this every single time now and half my team hates each other.

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Do people really think that being tired would start to cause muscles to tear? Sure you shouldn't be able to ask teams to press heavily for 90 mins but if you did shouldn't the consequence be that they tried but couldn't because they were too tired rather than blindly pushing themselves until muscles and bones gave way? IRL cramp is the only real consequence in notice in a team trying too hard for too long.

Well that's not necessarily true. Tiredness comes from exertion, and over exertion is a leading cause of muscle strains and tears. Its incorrect to say cramp is the only real consequence in a team trying too hard for too long.

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bc23bfe008aa0a2c32cbae7565b8c2ed.png

Has anyone managed to tutor a player since the new patch? I get this every single time now and half my team hates each other.

If you pick the right tutors you shouldn't have this problem. It helps if you pick players with similar personalities and the tutor should be determined.

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I said I'd be back.

I'm not talking about hand-holding, not in the slightest, and I think it's unfair to suggest I'm talking about people who won't think for themselves.

Figuring out just what the tools that the game has available to us actually do ISN'T part of the game. The game is in using those tools to create tactics that you think are going to overcome the AI's tactics. There is no reason whatsoever that the game shouldn't tell you exactly what a role does when you're selecting it, and right now, it doesn't- it gives a waffley piece of text that does little to distinguish one from another.

To those saying "watch a game and you'll see that XYZ involves ABC"- that's missing the point. The point is that a manager already knows how they WANT their team to play- the difficulty shouldn't then be in trying to make that actually happen on the pitch by choosing the right combination of roles, mentality etc. If you want to go down the "realism" route, then I ask you which is more realistic- telling a player they're playing as a Deep-Lying Forward and hoping they do what you want, or just straight-out telling them what you want them to do and leaving the naming of the role to the pundits?

Communicating your intent to the players your team isn't the game. The only thing that should make that any harder than usual are things like language barriers- things that would ACTUALLY put some doubt in the understanding. Right now, the way roles are implemented and poorly described is unrealistic and makes the learning curve much harder than it needs to be- it's a mechanic that exists purely BECAUSE FM is a game, and has no relation to reality.

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Okay, seriously now... this thread is for feedback. Can we keep it at that, please? Any more off-topic nonsense will be deleted.

There are no more updates/hotfixes/whatever planned.

Simply wow, the game needs them still right now.

Guess buying FM15 is out of the question (first FM I won't have bought), maybe FM16 will be worth it.

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Whilst I get that the international duty bug is caused by players remaining with their national teams during single "events" that are broken up over time (i.e. OFC Nations Cup which is one group stage spread from ~October - June, the CAF World Cup Qualifiers final round last early mid October to early mid November), what I still don't quite get is why there is nothing in place to allow such fixtures to be patched, fixed or edited in already started game. I understand that the fix is in the database for 15.3.0, but why are there no options available for people playing long term saves prior?

I understand that the bug isn't entirely game breaking. If you're losing your OFC players for 9 months every four years, you can just disable those national teams and keep playing, and for the CAF nations it averages out at an extra week every four years, less than the time they spend away for the AFCON. But I would have thought that there would be some way of modifying future fixtures for already started games in order to fix such problems if they came up. Maybe just something to think about for future versions.

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is anyone else hitting woodwork a lot?

Yes, the number of times is certainly seems higher than the previous patch.

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Fair dinkum is it possible to go more than a match without losing a player or 10 to injury?!

If using the exact same tactics, same training as on the previous patch, what can explain the sudden increase in frequency?

I make sure training intensity is low, rest everyone after every match and rotate my starting 11 each match. I'm sure I'm still doing something wrong but it's bloody frustrating

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Fair dinkum is it possible to go more than a match without losing a player or 10 to injury?!

If using the exact same tactics, same training as on the previous patch, what can explain the sudden increase in frequency?

I make sure training intensity is low, rest everyone after every match and rotate my starting 11 each match. I'm sure I'm still doing something wrong but it's bloody frustrating

Your low training coupled with still resting players may have somwthing to do with it. Not sure what your tactics are like, but that could further worsen the situation.

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Just my two pennies worth regarding the new patch and the game in general:

1. 3D is better and more realistic and feels slightly more like watching a real game of football. Obviously there are the usual moments where it is unrealistic or your defenders look like they are doing a gangnam style dance when all they need to do is kick the ball but in general it's not too bad.

2. Not sure if this is that much different from the old patch but I have seen a rash of weird sackings and manager appointments. The sackings I guess can be argued that they are realistic, i.e. Wenger sacked for finishing fifth, LVG sacked for finishing 4th, Mourinho sacked for finishing 3rd, etc. but (and this has been around for a while now) it is really strange when managers are sacked right before a cup final, i.e. Mourinho was sacked for finishing 3rd and 2 weeks later had the UCL final. Probably my bigger gripe is weird appointments, Ian Holloway in a few of my saves always gets a good job (normally with Everton) even though he has never managed a really big club and Millwall are always at the bottom of the Championship. I also see a lot of managers being re-appointed to former clubs which can happen but not to the degree that the game portrays.

3. Probably my biggest moan (more to do with the overall game and not the patch) is why oh why do we have to set up every single time the 'Screen Flow' for all new games that are started!? Please SI, I love the 'Screen Flow' in keeping me updated with leagues and competitions but I can start numerous games and start unemployed and then re-start if certain jobs don't come up and having to set up 'Screen Flow' every time is tedious. Could we not have these settings saved under 'preferences' in some way, i.e. all leagues you load will come up every month, all main competitions on leagues loaded will show results of winners, all major international competitions will show winners, etc. I know in the initial 'preferences' screen it won't know what leagues you are going to load but having something like the above could surely be an alternative?

4. Injuries are a pain but are part of football and I don't feel personally they are unrealistic in the new patch, Bolton recently lost 2 players for the whole season and another for a fair amount of time in one game.

5. Again a bit more off topic but for the game in general, I would like to see more opportunities for the user to amend what screens they see and where. I personally don't like the degree of detail the game now goes into as it is a bit much for me and instead I mainly just look at certain finance screens, squad screens, transfer screens, etc. A lot of the screens or sub-screens I never look at and it would be nice to filter these out or remove them so the user can just see what they want to without a huge array of screens and data. Not a major problem as I just look at the main screens that I feel are relevant to my game and the way I like to play it but some more user flexibility would be great (think of menus for Outlook and how you can view some, remove some, move some, etc.).

Thanks

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woodwork stat in my save in 28 games is 13 hits.

which is 0.46 per game.

for me its much less than in previous editions and patches.

@SI: any official stats in 15.3 from simulations for a few years?

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I apologise in advance as i don't want to be this person, however i feel that i have to say something. Mainly for the sake of a franchise i have loved since the second edition of CM, then after the split and realising all the real brains had come to FM, i very quickly said my goodbyes there.

The thing is this most recent edition has all the ingredients to have been one of the best yet; the interface changes, all the extra options, added in bits of reality, the better graphics etc. However sadly parts of it have been done so very shoddily it ends up taking away from the experience. The dialogue for example; i had a player come and say he wanted a loan move to develop as he wasn't getting the football he wanted. I don't want him or need him so i said actually know what? I think it would be best for all of us if i arranged something permanent. He baulked at this and got upset.

As i had just gotten rid of a bunch of trouble makers and settled my squad perfectly i said fine, i'll keep you and we can do something later. He then went off the rails and said i couldn't keep him there, he had supporters in the squad (yeah right) and was gonna make trouble if he didn't get what he wanted. I was left with three options; no sod off, yes i'll arrange a loan, you can go but it'll be permanent. I chose the last. Going by what he had said up until then this wasn't good enough, however he was perfectly happy with it and said it was what he wanted all along. Now i am left looking like i caved in, when i didn't. He is suddenly happy with what, he, two conversation parts earlier said was totally unacceptable.

Furthermore it has totally ruined the reality aspect and the added in part of the game. This is but one example (admittedly perhaps not the best or easiest to explain. However it just happened, i'm still annoyed, and it's a perfect example of many, many, MANY dialogue errors that are similar and the lack of reality in them conversations and that makes them fall flat on their faces) The conversations end up totally adhoc and meaningless. You have to negotiate many of them by a set of FM independent rules, it's ridiculous. Not only ridiculous but it makes the whole expanded and potentially amazing dialogue part of this release a huge negative that ruins huge parts of the game.

Then there's things like your assistant saying so and so needs a new contract when you only just signed him in August and it's fricken November. Actually come to think of it a lot of their feedback it total bollocks. Drop so and so for some for some useless and untried runt even though player A is playing perfectly well. I understand that some of this may be to test the user because people in real life will give you bad advice at times. However a WORLD CLASS assistant or coach giving out advice like mentioned above, time and time and time again? No. There's also graphics errors in the way after you score a goal it replays the commentary even though the play is continuing. Then suddenly snaps out of post restart play to a replay of the goal. There's the ball crossing the line, i mean the keeper was in the back of the net, literally. If it was IRL the net would have been bulging, yet it isn't a goal. I've had those for and against me and they are as annoying either way. Other more know bugs about players getting the hump about some little kid you sold and leading a revolution in your squad for a year about it. Even if you go on to win almost everything and the kid plays like crap at the club he moves to. As they say when they complain that there will be serious ramifications if it doesn't work out. I'd say the EPL, C/L, FA Cup, Community Shield and World Club Championship (due to a C/L win the year before) is more than enough to say it worked out.

These are already highlighted ones however i am struggling to pull out exact incidents at the moment as, tbqh, there are quite a few :/. Being a software developer myself i more than understand what some dick coming along and saying "THIS SUCKS!" is like and more to the point how little help it is.

Sadly there is a fair bit more, i apologise again as i wish there wasn't. I'll probably add it when i have it down and detailed enough that this input will actually be of use and not just useless criticism.

Trust me i am doing this because this edition of FM, on the surface seemed easily the best yet. However having played it through for at least 10 seasons or more in several games i keep finding the exact same errors time and time again. I reformatted my main computer at least twice to make sure it wasn't anything on my end. I even installed it on a brand new laptop i had to buy, this laptop resides in my office at work so it doesn't have any of the same input, internet wise, as my rigs at home. Boom, half a season or so in exact same stuff.

Anyway, i hope this is of some help and i will add more to it when i can. I know that when i am developing something constructive feedback is priceless as sometimes you can't quite see the wood for the trees and you can miss mistakes.

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Dirty Harry, I've moved your post to the feedback thread, if you have specific examples of any issues you've mentioned please raise them on a case by case basis in the appropriate bugs sub-fora & they will be reviewed.

Thanks.

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Woodwork hits stand at roughly 0.85 hits per game, compared to roughly 0.82 in the previous Match Engine, so a minimal difference.

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I`m sorry if this has been answered earlier, but is this the final patch? Will there come more updates, or can I finally start my save ;)?

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There are no more planned updates.

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