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An Open Question to Long Time FM players

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So I like many of you have played every iteration of FM and have enjoyed the minutes and hours clicking away. I feel I am running away from the game, because it is not working for me. This match engine is not working for me. I don't want to post screenshots or upload save games. Those of us who have played it long enough can feel it. We can feel something is wrong. We can see it in the scores, and the defending and the illogical games. People will point to real life and games where that sometimes defy logic. But the difference with this match engine is this a trend not a one off game.

I am desperate for the game to work and for me to play. I bought the game and after playing it for a while, it has been sitting unplayed and unopened for the last month. This has never happenned in my last ten years of FM/CM. I am not looking to be combative or argue the merits of the match engine. I am just looking to SI at what made them successful and different from every other development company - listening to the users and making it better. I want to ask when the SI guys who play the game, and I know they play it, whether they feel the same?

I am aching to play the game - literally this game has been an almost daily ritual for the last ten years. And I cannot because I know its flawed. And many of us out there know its flawed and either are like me or are making excuses of why its still working.

I can only pray for 15.3.

Open question, without being antagonistic, do you feel the same?

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I know exactly how you feel. The thing that is frustrating is how long we have to wait for the last update.

You just have to think about how awesome the game will be when the update is out. This version has definitely made me change my mind about purchasing the game from release day but still addicted nonetheless.

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The game is constantly evolving, but it is fair to say that each version has its own frustrations, so I have always found that you have to approach each version as your first one and basically start from scratch each time. One of the problems that long time users of the game may have is the expectation that what they did in the previous version that worked well, will also work as well in the new version and often that is not true.

The game is not perfect and probably will never be but as long as your expectations do not exceed the possible level, then there is no reason not to get the same level of enjoyment out of the game, from one version to the next.

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Having played since CM 93/94, no I don't feel the same. I still love the game

I still love the game too, but do you feel the ME is the same quality as past iterations?

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So I like many of you have played every iteration of FM and have enjoyed the minutes and hours clicking away. I feel I am running away from the game, because it is not working for me. This match engine is not working for me. I don't want to post screenshots or upload save games. Those of us who have played it long enough can feel it. We can feel something is wrong. We can see it in the scores, and the defending and the illogical games. People will point to real life and games where that sometimes defy logic. But the difference with this match engine is this a trend not a one off game.

I am desperate for the game to work and for me to play. I bought the game and after playing it for a while, it has been sitting unplayed and unopened for the last month. This has never happenned in my last ten years of FM/CM. I am not looking to be combative or argue the merits of the match engine. I am just looking to SI at what made them successful and different from every other development company - listening to the users and making it better. I want to ask when the SI guys who play the game, and I know they play it, whether they feel the same?

I am aching to play the game - literally this game has been an almost daily ritual for the last ten years. And I cannot because I know its flawed. And many of us out there know its flawed and either are like me or are making excuses of why its still working.

I can only pray for 15.3.

Open question, without being antagonistic, do you feel the same?

How to say so much without actually saying anything at all. :rolleyes:

Anyway, this match engine is the best in the series so far. This isn't opinion, it's fact. Previous FM's may have seemed better, but that's because the match engine was a lot more basic, meaning that highly illogical tactical choices or setups didn't always yield illogical results. You got away with a lot more in past games. The engine has really moved on a pace now, and you need to be more sensible and be able to adapt.

Is there still issues with it? Yes. There are every year, but it's probably the most stable it's been at this stage of the game's lifespan. And considering it's a far more complex beast than before, that's a helluva achievement for what is still a relatively small company.

So no, I don't feel the same. But then I don't have the expectation that it will look and play exactly like real life football, whilst at the same time being able to win every game by hitting 'continue'.

Not saying that's the issue the OP is having, but then he's not actually told us what his issue is, just the usual blurb and nonsense about it being 'flawed'.

No offence.

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How to say so much without actually saying anything at all. :rolleyes:

Anyway, this match engine is the best in the series so far. This isn't opinion, it's fact. Previous FM's may have seemed better, but that's because the match engine was a lot more basic, meaning that highly illogical tactical choices or setups didn't always yield illogical results. You got away with a lot more in past games. The engine has really moved on a pace now, and you need to be more sensible and be able to adapt.

Is there still issues with it? Yes. There are every year, but it's probably the most stable it's been at this stage of the game's lifespan. And considering it's a far more complex beast than before, that's a helluva achievement for what is still a relatively small company.

So no, I don't feel the same. But then I don't have the expectation that it will look and play exactly like real life football, whilst at the same time being able to win every game by hitting 'continue'.

Not saying that's the issue the OP is having, but then he's not actually told us what his issue is, just the usual blurb and nonsense about it being 'flawed'.

No offence.

I guess 10-1 games between two fairly similar teams using a standard tactic proves your agrument right? And then 6-3, 5-3, 4-4 within half season also reflects that. This is using an unchanged standard formation like 442.

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I guess 10-1 games between two fairly similar teams using a standard tactic proves your agrument right? And then 6-3, 5-3, 4-4 within half season also reflects that. This is using an unchanged standard formation like 442.

Again, this isn't really telling us anything. We don't know the teams involved, the players available, the form of the teams in each case, etc. Your example only lists four results out of, what, 20 matches? In one half season? Not much of a soak test, is it?

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I got tired of waiting, so I just put my head down and started playing, having a decent time in Belgium. I spent my money, I accept that the coming update will likely fix some but not all of the problems, and I'll just deal with the lingering disappointment. And you know, even though I swear I'm not going to buy another edition when it comes out, I know I'll weaken and give in.

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Again, this isn't really telling us anything. We don't know the teams involved, the players available, the form of the teams in each case, etc. Your example only lists four results out of, what, 20 matches? In one half season? Not much of a soak test, is it?

I know I know these arguments have been had here many times before and no need to rehash whats already been said. But my point is this, do you not feel that this iteration of the games seems to have way more of these complaints?

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I know I know these arguments have been had here many times before and no need to rehash whats already been said. But my point is this, do you not feel that this iteration of the games seems to have way more of these complaints?

No, the complaints over this game have been tame in comparison to FM14, and in particular FM13 which got a REAL hounding until the final update. There will always be complaints, some justified, some over the top nonsense because the player is unable to get to grips with it. But this year has been more positive than usual.

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I got tired of waiting, so I just put my head down and started playing, having a decent time in Belgium. I spent my money, I accept that the coming update will likely fix some but not all of the problems, and I'll just deal with the lingering disappointment. And you know, even though I swear I'm not going to buy another edition when it comes out, I know I'll weaken and give in.

Me too haha. Definitely not getting the beta again though.

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Compared to FM13, FM15 has been relatively bug-free.

FM13 was truly awful, I only spent 30 hours on it, and it's the only FM game I haven't bought on release since I started playing them (from FM10 onwards) I thought the Beta for FM13 was poor, especially at the time as that was the first FM game they released a beta for, and I felt that it wasn't a product that warranted the £30 on it based on the Beta, and subsequent browsing of the forums led to me to postpone purchasing it. I did purchase it in the end for £5 or so when it was on sale but I never really got into it. To be fair it did have to compete against my long-running FM12 save that was around the 2030's by then, eventually ending up in 2047 after spending two years playing it due to be skipping FM13.

Somewhat ironically I think I'm correct in saying FM13 was the best selling FM game ever, although I think FM15 has/is on course to surpass it.

FM14 was a much better game than FM13, and I spent a large amount of time on it but it didn't quite have the same level of love I had for FM12. FM15 though has been amazing, definitely the best FM I've played. The only real issue that still exists is the player interaction IMO, there's not a lot else wrong that I've noticed.

Saying the ME hasn't improved this year is rubbish, it's the best ME they've ever made and a thoroughly enjoyable one too. It's not perfect, but if you can't see the improvement with this years ME then I really have to question whether you need to make an opticians appointment....

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From a moderating perspective, we've been consistently getting less and less horribly negative feedback to deal with on a year by year basis. Release days are pretty tame nowadays. In years gone, they've been vicious.

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The OP can put his pitchfork away now, not many villagers are joining him outside the castle gates this evening. :p

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The OP can put his pitchfork away now, not many villagers are joining him outside the castle gates this evening. :p

He's only asking for opinions.

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As someone who has played since the very start I feel like the ME gets better every year in general.

Each version has little nuances and the odd exploit which some people feel its their duty to take advantage of but it does improve each time, you just have to look back at older versions to see that.

Its a little unfair atm to judge FM15 against previous final versions but it does feel a little rough in places. FM14 saw a big jump from patch 2 to patch 3 though and hopefully with a similar sort of improvement we will have a really good ME.

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While I've only been playing since fm 07 (when i was 13) i have to say the level of transformation of the series is unbelievable. Yes there are issues, as there is with every game in history however for what it offers as a football simulation it is impeccable. If you have bad results or series then it is most likely you not the game, yes the full fat fm needs dedication for you to produce optimal results and even then you can slip up and see a season down the drain (recently happened to me) but i think it's worth it. I loved fm 14 but i still prefer this by quite a distance it just feels more real to me.

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I'll stick my head out and say that FM15 is probably the first edition of the game where I'm kind of meh towards it, but I wouldn't put that down to the Match Engine, which ultimately I accept is a constant WIP, which is generally improving with every update, and which I otherwise have very little opinion on.

For me, it's just that there are too many little things outside of the matchday that just don't work properly- the game really feels like it's lacking the kind of polish that FM has built its name on. There are more and more modules where my reaction is "oh, come on, either do it properly or don't do it at all"- things like player interaction, with the nonsensical reactions and revolts, or the media interaction which is tedious and doesn't add anything significant to the gameplay.

Then you come to things like the silly bug I reported about regens getting female names, or kit clashes that the game doesn't pick up, or camera views which cut off the goals, or the Tactics screen column catastrophe- things that are either new issues that haven't been issues in previous games, or things that have been previous issues and that nothing's been done about. Things that, while not gamebreaking on their own, snowball together to ultimately lessen the experience and immersion. Then there's all the unnecessary balderdash, hoop-jumping and corseting that's come with the editor this year, which, as someone who edits quite a lot, hits home quite hard.

I don't hate FM15. I don't particularly dislike it or think it's an especially bad edition of the game- I've even got used to the sidebar and think in the longrun it'll be a good thing to have back. But, for me, "flawed" feels like a good description- it certainly lacks polish, and there are a lot of things, small things, that add up to make it one of the duffer entries in the series.

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The only problem I have with this version is bugs. Bugs which prevent progress, bugs which crash the game, bugs which just make the game unplayable sometimes. For me, the match engine is fine but i really cant believe theyre allowed to release a game with so many bugs. Maybe switching to a 2 year development cycle would help.

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from the editors side its the worst release so far,as we cant get any editing done due to bug problems

playing the game I dont usually until the patch in march so cant comment on that, other than the last post I agree with the 2 year cycle

quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dagenham_Dave viewpost-right.png

The OP can put his pitchfork away now, not many villagers are joining him outside the castle gates this evening.

in response to this a lot of the long standing posters have left the forums mate

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from the editors side its the worst release so far,as we cant get any editing done due to bug problems

playing the game I dont usually until the patch in march so cant comment on that, other than the last post I agree with the 2 year cycle

I can't speak to the editor, the mouse cursor on my laptop disappears if I mouse-over any of the editor screen and I can't access any of the drop-down menus. I reported it and got an "oh, well, we don't have any idea" response.

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From a moderating perspective, we've been consistently getting less and less horribly negative feedback to deal with on a year by year basis. Release days are pretty tame nowadays. In years gone, they've been vicious.

Ah yes the good ole days :D

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My general pattern with FM games is I buy it on release and then play it intensely for about 6-8 weeks. I then get bored and put it to one side. 2-3 months later I will feel the siren call again and be back into it. This is the first FM that has engaged me full time from day 1. I have loved this current iteration with its flaws and for me it has been the best iteration to date - not for the new features necessarily but just as an overall playing experience.

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Technology is now stalled at this time . No real improvements have been made in the computer world . Games have become completely boring due to them all being basically the same format . Eg killing aliens or war games all revolve around the same theme . The stores are full of killing games and its now a total bore !!! . So its the same with Sim Games and Football Manager is the same . FIFA Manager is now gone and there is now no real competition for this franchise . So the graphics are no better than they were when they first put 3D Matches into the game . Very poor considering you have graphics like in PES15 and FIFA15 . They are almost laughable !!! ... In my game alone is the fact i have never scored or have been scored against from a corner kick . I must have played over 200 games on this series and its never happened . It was the same in FM2014 . So as far as im concerned the Computer Developers have come to a standstill . Either it costs to much to improve or they just cant improve im not sure but nothing seems to be happening . so with FM2015 and onwards not much will improve . They will say 200 extra features or 300 more animations but in real terms this does not improve the game to another level it just makes it what it should of been in the first place . First and foremost is that they want to make money and a profit so they are not going to improve the game with updates coz they dont get money from it . So they wait till the next series when you pay full price for the new game . So they dont have the technology to improve this game to the level we all want

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What do the editor and graphical enhancements have to do with the OP's ME issue?

FWIW, I love the game more every year, mostly because more detail gets added. The AI on match days is improved on every year. Sure we'll see an illogical pieve of playevery now and then, but that's happened every year in FM/CM.

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I believe that the evolution has made it realistic. But there are frustrations.

The OP can put his pitchfork away now, not many villagers are joining him outside the castle gates this evening. :p

I think such a post from a good poster like you is embarassing.

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From a moderating perspective, we've been consistently getting less and less horribly negative feedback to deal with on a year by year basis. Release days are pretty tame nowadays. In years gone, they've been vicious.

There's a lot less traffic in this section though. Moderating is also much more heavy-handed so a lot of the people who would have been horribly negative in the past are now banned. I remember the days of 2008-2010 and the general forum is incredibly quiet compared to those.

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The OP can put his pitchfork away now, not many villagers are joining him outside the castle gates this evening. :p

I have never known 1 user on a forum to be so negative to so many people all the time, Your attitude is shocking.

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I'm still enjoying the game and I really like the new tactics screen and the wealth of tactical options available. I also watch all of my matches on full detail and it's satisfying to see any tactical changes actually making a difference. The problem - and I know this has been said a million times - is the amount of goals and shots, not just games involving my team. I'm a few weeks into the first season and Liverpool have already beaten Manchester United 7-5. There are results like this every single week, in all countries and all divisions. I find that I'm having to play very negatively just to keep the score and shots down in my own matches in order to inject a bit of realism into proceedings. It feels a little bit like playing strategy games on my old Spectrum or Amiga and having to tweak what I'm doing all the time just to keep it real whilst turning a blind eye to some of the more ludicrous aspects. It's a shame as otherwise I think the game is great!

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Simulating something capricious as football cannot be underestimated. You need to consider that it's not easy for SI developers to keep enhancing certain aspects of the game while catering to extremely low minimal specs.

Considering the limitations SI devs have done a magnificent job. When doing these improvements and rebalancing acts they are constrained on so many levels. As a dev myself I don't envy them at all.

Just for fun I would advise you to look up when the hardware below has been released.

OS: Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8

Processor: Intel Pentium 4, Intel Core, AMD Athlon - XP: 1.6GHz+ V/7/8: 2.2GHz+

Memory: 1 GB RAM

Graphics: NVidia GeForce FX 5900 Ultra, ATI Radeon 9800, Intel GMA X3100 - 128MB VRAM

DirectX: Version 9.0c

Hard Drive: 3 GB available space

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I do understand the OP's frustrations, but the answer is to figure out what you are doing wrong not give up and then blame the game cos it can't possibly be the player can it?. I am 65 and have played every version since CM01- FM15 except FM's 10&12, ever since I first heard my son venting his frustration on CM01 which he had wanted and received as a birthday present in 1998/99? I think it was. In the end he gave up and I became "addicted", lol.

In every version of FM I have gone through a period of frustration while I figured out the differences from the previous one, and every time without fail, when I did eventually figure out the solution the causes of my frustrations always lay with me the player and not the game. Although I don't post much I do visit these forums a lot just to catch up with the latest news and read the excellent articles by some very clever people. I think that their are in the main three types of players firstly, the type who just want a one size fits all tactic that they can set up, go on holiday and come back to see how "they" did at the end of the season. This type of player now finds it very hard to succeed in the long term as the game has developed beyond that in my opinion. Secondly, and probably the biggest group are the type who take the time to actually manage the team of their choice and play the match itself between key and extensive highlight mode mainly due to time/family/work commitments because it does take a lot of time to be really successful at FM. Thirdly are players like myself, retired, or who for various reasons, disability, financial freedom or other have as much time as they want to play the game and in my case for example I play one or maybe two matches a day always in full mode but spend considerably more time actually managing the club. I spent most of the last 30yrs in industrial management and therefore many of the in game decisions etc come second nature to me.

I think the biggest change I see in FM15 is the amount of off field activity in the game now. Many of the people who play this wonderful game either forget or don't know that it is first and foremost a management simulation. I believe this is where many of the frustrations amongst players arise as they don't really want to be bothered with the management side of it at all. To these players I would advise them to save themselves a lot of stress and just buy one of the many match orientated games available. Just pick a team and a tactic and away you go, instantly successful stress free football gaming. As I said I have a background in management which helps me in-game, my difficulties to be solved are always on the tactical and training side of it. Having loved football ever since playing it in the street between two lamp posts as a kid in the 50's and later on watching whichever side I supported locally where I was living/working at the time and understanding the rules doesn't automatically qualify you as a master tactician although you would lose that argument in very many post match pubs up and down the various football playing nations of the world.

Another thing worth remembering is that the Messi, Rooney, Ronaldo etc, etc in your team is a simulation, he is not the real one. When you switch off your PC, laptop etc they return to being a series of 0's and 1's they are not fretting about that fine/warning or being bottom of the league and being relegated, you are, but not them. My advice to the OP would be, read up on the excellent tactical and practical advice at these forums by too many to mention real experts, but mostly just have a deal of patience and watch at least a few games in full and attempt to see how your changes affect your play in small steps rather than a lot of them all at the same time as the same as real life, that solution will just leads to confusion.

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I don't want to post screenshots or upload save games. Those of us who have played it long enough can feel it. We can feel something is wrong.

This, for me, is where you fall down for two reasons. The first is simple; if you are going to be unhappy with a game you see as bugged then you should log as many bugs and give as many examples as possible. The more examples, the easier it should be for the SI team to track down exact problems and hopefully fix them. There is really no point in complaining about a game and doing nothing to fix it (if that is what you want).

The second point from this is that the reason you do not post these thing is because they will be explained to you in rational terms and you will be told they are not bugs. This is clearly something you disagree with, and hence you probably have the same discussion over and over. The key here is that some of the time, the people telling you a certain thing is not a bug will be right. Other times, it will be a bug - I do not think anyone would say the ME is anywhere near free of bugged or weird behaviour. The thing is, if you come across a repeating pattern of behaviour that is not a bug, then it is down to you. The only way to combat it is to change how you approach the game.

FWIW, I think this is the most rewarding and frustrating ME to date. It rewards logically set up teams, and punishes bad setups. There is a feeling of joy when you now get your team to click with a tactic, and it feels like something I have done myself rather than exploiting something broken. It is frustrating because when you get it wrong, you are punished - often heavily. I have had a steep learning curve at times where nothing I did seemed to work. But the key is learning curve.

I hope the 15.3 patch fixes some of the obvious issues, both with the game and the ME, but I do not expect there to be a major overhaul of anything. I do not think it is required.

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If the last patch doesn't sort out the issues i'll just not be back to it. Frustrating and stupid.

Sick of all the stupid wee things that ruin everything. I'm a long time player and i agree with the guy who started the thread.

This version is just poor.

Ironicly i quite enjoyed it about 2 updates back, apart from defenders letting forwards get to balls first.

Then it just bleargh.

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if you are going to be unhappy with a game you see as bugged then you should log as many bugs and give as many examples as possible. The more examples, the easier it should be for the SI team to track down exact problems and hopefully fix them. There is really no point in complaining about a game and doing nothing to fix it (if that is what you want).

There could be loads of reasons why he doesn't want to report bugs. At the moment, bugs aren't even being reviewed based on what I've seen in that forum. Assuming they're working on the patch and don't have the time to. I've also seen people post about reporting things early on and still no fixes. So I could understand why he might not want to go down this way. For all the major problems, they've already been noted numerous times so there's no point in doing anything until the patch is released because even if you do, it probably won't be looked at until after.

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I've played for 20 years, and switched to FMC back on FM14.

The Match Engine is now huge, and in spite of that, the number of bugs now is almost certainly proportionately lower than ever before. The final update will improve things further, though I'm sure some hard to resolve ones will persist. For me, the Match Engine is an improvement on all else we have seen before.

I see all the bugs that others see and of course would aspire to have a bug free game, but I am pragmatic enough to realise that this just is not going to happen due to the complexity of the game. In my ~500 hours on FM15 I have not seen a single 50+ shot game (not even 40, iirc); I do not see anything even close to 9-1 scores at half time. What I do see are occasional bugs which sporadically detract from the flow of the game and yes, they can lead to goals scored or conceded, but then I remember that is a computer game, and it doesn't really matter.

SI are busting a gut to make the best CM/FM Match Engine yet even better for the final update, and it will get even better.

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I'll stick my head out and say that FM15 is probably the first edition of the game where I'm kind of meh towards it, but I wouldn't put that down to the Match Engine, which ultimately I accept is a constant WIP, which is generally improving with every update, and which I otherwise have very little opinion on.

For me, it's just that there are too many little things outside of the matchday that just don't work properly- the game really feels like it's lacking the kind of polish that FM has built its name on. There are more and more modules where my reaction is "oh, come on, either do it properly or don't do it at all"- things like player interaction, with the nonsensical reactions and revolts, or the media interaction which is tedious and doesn't add anything significant to the gameplay.

Then you come to things like the silly bug I reported about regens getting female names, or kit clashes that the game doesn't pick up, or camera views which cut off the goals, or the Tactics screen column catastrophe- things that are either new issues that haven't been issues in previous games, or things that have been previous issues and that nothing's been done about. Things that, while not gamebreaking on their own, snowball together to ultimately lessen the experience and immersion. Then there's all the unnecessary balderdash, hoop-jumping and corseting that's come with the editor this year, which, as someone who edits quite a lot, hits home quite hard.

I don't hate FM15. I don't particularly dislike it or think it's an especially bad edition of the game- I've even got used to the sidebar and think in the longrun it'll be a good thing to have back. But, for me, "flawed" feels like a good description- it certainly lacks polish, and there are a lot of things, small things, that add up to make it one of the duffer entries in the series.

I think id go along with this. I dont hate FM15 at all, and i dont even dislike it, but i dont enjoy it that much. Too many little things dont work properly, too many silly little bugs rather than anything glaring. The ME for me is really good, i enjoy it, the AI is a bit better this time, but things like the in game editor being a bit of a mess, too many wrong media things, wrong names, and just a heap of tiny things that take a bit away from the immersion i always loved with FM.

I put it down about 2 months ago, havent felt like playing it again since.

TBH tho i put that down to myself as much as anything. I think i have grown out of the game a bit.

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I feel the same way as the OP.

I haven't played all versions (but most) since the first release of Championship Manager. I pre-ordered FM15 but have only played 3 half seasons (three different saves). I've had success but the game hasn't appealed to me this year. I've played both versions - normal and classic.

Actually I haven't played a manager game so few times since I started playing these kind of games in 1986 (or was it 1985?)

I guess I'll give it a new go when the coming patch is released. History shows that sometimes the 2nd or 3rd patch makes wonders for this game.

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The point is if you bought a car with as many bugs or a Fridge or Washer or anything else you use would you be happy with it . You paid good money for a car and other items but if it fails then you are entitled to compensation . So if we are paying money for this product and it states on the Cover and Websites it has this and does that and you find its full of bugs what compensation do you get ? NOTHING and they just take your money for it

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The point is if you bought a car with as many bugs or a Fridge or Washer or anything else you use would you be happy with it . You paid good money for a car and other items but if it fails then you are entitled to compensation . So if we are paying money for this product and it states on the Cover and Websites it has this and does that and you find its full of bugs what compensation do you get ? NOTHING and they just take your money for it

Terrible example. Not only are they not even remotely comparable, you also show a baffling misunderstanding of how things work.

Go and find me any example of a piece of software which doesn't have any bugs whatsoever in it. Then also go find a statement on the FM cover and/or website that is unequivocally false thanks to a bug. I'll wait.

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Games have become completely boring due to them all being basically the same format . Eg killing aliens or war games all revolve around the same theme

That's such laughable nonsense, it's hard to even know where to begin. And the scary thing is, the part of your rant that I didn't quote is even worse. It takes something a bit special to be so wrong in such a large paragraph.

You sir, are the complete definition of a 'jaded gamer'. The type that unless a game completely blows them away every single time (ie ridiculously unrealistic) is just going to hate on it. Sadly, this is becoming an increasingly common phenomenon. There are so many fantastic games out there thet people will mercilessly criticise for no other reason than they can. And it's seeping into so called professional reviews to the extent that many wonderful software companies are going to the wall because of poor sales due to terrible reviews when the games in question are often really well made products.

Anyway, that's perhaps for another discussion...

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How to say so much without actually saying anything at all. :rolleyes:

Anyway, this match engine is the best in the series so far. This isn't opinion, it's fact.

No it isn't. The clue is in your use of a subjective term like "best".

I have to admit I am finding the latest game a touch frustrating - not to the extent other people seem to be, and I do think a LOT of the complaints in this forum are more to do with user error or confirmation bias than a problem with the game itself (you only have to look at the overwhelming percentage of complaints which involve defeats - there are far fewer people complaining about the game's lack of realism when it results in them doing better than expected) - but for me there does seem to be something of a disconnect between the setup you implement and the games you end up seeing played out, which obviously detracts from the immersion that has been the hallmark of Football Manager's quality.

As a newcomer I've no idea how previous versions of FM were received - if there have been significantly more criticisms of this version compared to earlier instalments then perhaps it's something for SI to seriously consider. Based on the feedback in here so far, this doesn't seem to be the case, so it's probably reasonable to expect people to grin and bear it until the next patch comes out. I'm confident the creases will be ironed out with patches as they generally have been over the years, but I would add myself to the seemingly quite lengthy list of people who have found themselves frustrated with this year's version. Don't get me wrong, it's still GOOD - but when previous versions have been uniformly superb, 'good' seems like a step down.

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I haven't missed a release since 00/01 and while I certainly haven't had any in-game success in about five years, the last two have been the best of the bunch.

The game's not easy any more - which, sadly, is seen as a flaw by most. I don't think enough people give Classic a go, either.

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That's such laughable nonsense, it's hard to even know where to begin. And the scary thing is, the part of your rant that I didn't quote is even worse. It takes something a bit special to be so wrong in such a large paragraph.

You sir, are the complete definition of a 'jaded gamer'. The type that unless a game completely blows them away every single time (ie ridiculously unrealistic) is just going to hate on it. Sadly, this is becoming an increasingly common phenomenon. There are so many fantastic games out there thet people will mercilessly criticise for no other reason than they can. And it's seeping into so called professional reviews to the extent that many wonderful software companies are going to the wall because of poor sales due to terrible reviews when the games in question are often really well made products.

Anyway, that's perhaps for another discussion...

Looks like you found someone to have an argument with. Enjoy. :D

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Technology is now stalled at this time . No real improvements have been made in the computer world . Games have become completely boring due to them all being basically the same format . Eg killing aliens or war games all revolve around the same theme . The stores are full of killing games and its now a total bore !!! . So its the same with Sim Games and Football Manager is the same . FIFA Manager is now gone and there is now no real competition for this franchise . So the graphics are no better than they were when they first put 3D Matches into the game . Very poor considering you have graphics like in PES15 and FIFA15 . They are almost laughable !!! ... In my game alone is the fact i have never scored or have been scored against from a corner kick . I must have played over 200 games on this series and its never happened . It was the same in FM2014 . So as far as im concerned the Computer Developers have come to a standstill . Either it costs to much to improve or they just cant improve im not sure but nothing seems to be happening . so with FM2015 and onwards not much will improve . They will say 200 extra features or 300 more animations but in real terms this does not improve the game to another level it just makes it what it should of been in the first place . First and foremost is that they want to make money and a profit so they are not going to improve the game with updates coz they dont get money from it . So they wait till the next series when you pay full price for the new game . So they dont have the technology to improve this game to the level we all want

This is quite possibly the worst post I've ever read on this forum. I don't even know where to start, two of your most weird points though;

Why do FM's graphics need to be like PES or FIFA? This isn't a game for ground breaking graphics, it's about simulation, and it's designed to run on low end PC's. I have to wonder whether you really understand the point of FM at all after reading that block of inane text.

I've scored from loads of corner kicks, in every FM I've ever played. What a ridiculous complaint to make, do you actually play the game at all? :p

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This is quite possibly the worst post I've ever read on this forum. I don't even know where to start, two of your most weird points though;

Why do FM's graphics need to be like PES or FIFA? This isn't a game for ground breaking graphics, it's about simulation, and it's designed to run on low end PC's. I have to wonder whether you really understand the point of FM at all after reading that block of inane text.

While I agree with you that it's not a particularly immediate concern while the lower-end spec users wouldn't have much use for it, and obviously there are far more pressing issues with the game, it's very short-termist to just dismiss the idea of improved graphics out of hand.

You say that this game isn't about graphics but simulation - but the simulation can only be improved as the graphics get better. As graphics improve, the implementation of player's individual stats should be easy to see during matches - at the moment, graphics don't really allow you to tell, say, why a winger beat his full back. Was it raw pace, or did he manipulate the ball to find space? Did he get by him with pace alone, or did he use his strength to prevent himself from being muscled off the ball in the first couple of yards?

Even now with the limited 3D graphics we have, it gives you a far better idea of how and why you're doing well or badly than the 2D pitch ever did, which in turn was an improvement (arguably?) on the commentary of the pre-2005 games. Improved graphics can only be a plus for the game; that should be obvious - not only are they good for their own sake (quite simply, good graphics are pfeferable to bad graphics when all else is equal) but because they improve the feeling of immersion in the game and aid the simulation of realistic matches.

The only issue is finding a happy medium which improves graphics without A) pushing out users with low-end specs, and B) pushing resources away from more important issues like the match engine or improving the out-of-match experience.

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I think the graphics are great for the kind of game it is. What puzzles me is the lack of animations. There's a lot of moments when watching a match that you have to figure out what happened yourself because what you saw didn't make sense. If there were better animations, a lot of things that happen would make more sense.

To criticise the graphics is pretty silly though. Every year I noticed the improvements on that part.

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While I agree with you that it's not a particularly immediate concern while the lower-end spec users wouldn't have much use for it, and obviously there are far more pressing issues with the game, it's very short-termist to just dismiss the idea of improved graphics out of hand.

You say that this game isn't about graphics but simulation - but the simulation can only be improved as the graphics get better. As graphics improve, the implementation of player's individual stats should be easy to see during matches - at the moment, graphics don't really allow you to tell, say, why a winger beat his full back. Was it raw pace, or did he manipulate the ball to find space? Did he get by him with pace alone, or did he use his strength to prevent himself from being muscled off the ball in the first couple of yards?

Even now with the limited 3D graphics we have, it gives you a far better idea of how and why you're doing well or badly than the 2D pitch ever did, which in turn was an improvement (arguably?) on the commentary of the pre-2005 games. Improved graphics can only be a plus for the game; that should be obvious - not only are they good for their own sake (quite simply, good graphics are pfeferable to bad graphics when all else is equal) but because they improve the feeling of immersion in the game and aid the simulation of realistic matches.

The only issue is finding a happy medium which improves graphics without A) pushing out users with low-end specs, and B) pushing resources away from more important issues like the match engine or improving the out-of-match experience.

That comes back to animations though rather than what I believe the poster in question was referring too when he said 'graphics', he was saying how it's outrageous that the 3D matches don't look like FIFA or PES, which is a frankly laughable complaint.

Yeah animations still need work, but they introduced mo-cap this year which has massively improved the look of goalkeepers amongst other things. They do improve animations each year though, compare this ME to FM2012 and you can see the difference, I don't see how anyone can really fault them on this though as it does improve every year.

The poster in question was asking why the graphics aren't at PES or FIFA level, well quite simply FM is developed by 100 people and sells around 900,000 copies compared to the 1,000 people that develop FIFA games that sell around 15 million. That combined with the fact that FM is a management simulator rather than a game where you directly control the 11 players on the pitch. FIFA is a game where the level of depth in it's management and player modes is acceptable because of it's exceedingly good graphics, it's a casual mans game. FM is the complete opposite of FIFA and it prioritizes depth of experience over graphics.

The poster reminds me of the guy that reviewed FM07 or whatever it was on IGN US and gave the game a 2/10 or something because he couldn't understand why anyone would want FM over FIFA, ignoring the fact that they are two completely different games.

EDIT: As Brawla said, they do still make graphical improvements each year so they are improving, but at a slower rate than the rest of the game because they aren't a priority.

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I still love the game too, but do you feel the ME is the same quality as past iterations?

If I'm being completely honest, I don't really care too much whether the ME is good, very good or excellent. Part of that is probably growing up with the commentary only of the older versions. As long as the scores are reasonable then I'm happy enough. I understand I'm likely to be in the minority with this one though.

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