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Rashidi

Bust the Net - Football Manager Tactics

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This thread prompted me to give a 4-3-1-2 a go on my new save with Arsenal :cool: Cheers rashidi1 :thup:

I'd had a very successful first season switching between a 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-2-1, because those are the systems I perceive Arsenal to use. In season two, we've made more use of the tough tackling brutes I signed in season one to shore up the soft centre at Arsenal by reverting to a 4-3-1-2. My interpretation of the system is fairly different to rashidi1's and I'm not overly happy with my attacking element yet (which is very different!), but the dynamic defensive covering you can get in a system like this is quite excellent to watch. My MC line is BWM (S) - CM (D) - BBM (S). When our attacking full backs advance, the intelligent shuttling across of the outer MCs when attacks break down is superb. The central CM drops to form a narrow diamond on occasions and it's a welcome change from the tactics I employed in my first season.

I am not surprised that you came up with a different combination in fact, when I first started messing with it, I came up with a few. Its all down to personal preference, and you absolutely right the dynamic defensive covering is excellent. In fact I think its even better than the a formation that plays with a dedicated DM which really isn't needed. When I played with systems featuring a DM, I realised that whilst I could get his ratings up, his performances were never pivotal to our success, which led me to the conclusion that that slot was redundant. Pushing into an MC position with a DLP or BWM seemed a better option. And I am glad I did, it all started with me swapping from 4132 to 4312 for those games where teams refused to come out of their half.

The one thing thats got me baffled at times is how wide it can actually play with the right backs. This is probably the first time in a long time that I have stuck with one system. Other systems work as I have shown in this thread, but for me personally the fact that I can attack with 3 strikers is just too good a system to pass up

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Rashidi, if memory serves me right, the 4411 formation used to be a big favourite of yours a couple of FM's ago. Is this still a system you rate highly?

How would you go about setting one up now?

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Rashidi, if memory serves me right, the 4411 formation used to be a big favourite of yours a couple of FM's ago. Is this still a system you rate highly?

How would you go about setting one up now?

Wow you have a good memory, thats from FM12. The basis for that system was simple, defend like a 442 but play like a 4231. It was a poor mans 4231. If memory serves me right I had set that up so that I would see 2 holding midfielders. Now there are some changes in FM15, most notably how well the wingbacks play. So i would do things slightly differently now. It would probably look like this but played at a normal tempo. I can't see how I could play this on a high tempo since the support players take some time to get up. My shouts would be simple as well, no overlap shout used since the system itself encourages overlapping. Shouts i would use on attacking would include Offside trap, stay on feet and close down more. I would learn this on control and switch over to counter if I needed dropping the close down more shout in the process.

Upfront I would be concerned with the lack of ccc, created. I have used this before but it requires a really strong intelligent DLF to hold up the ball for the rest. The WM are used because they can cut inside as opposed to the rest of the wide men. A 2 man holding midfield is preferred since I want it to play solid in the middle. This system has the luxury of seeing one of those MCs given a support role..because of the solid defensive shape.

This is what I would start with if I were playing a 4411, I'd tweak it slightly, but this would be the overall base,. I would also use this to go an make a system akin to Tony Pullis one but would change the passing patterns...maybe by getting the Koke position to go attacking with a FB(S) behind him but the passing system would be direct overall with a strong player playing upfront.

AKFQZai.jpg

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Rashidi,

I notice that you play with "narrow" as a TI quite a lot especially with narrower formations. Do you find this shout affects the contribution of your wing backs and their ability to bomb forward and put in plenty of crosses. Reason I ask is that with a 4132 or a 4312 the wing backs will be an important part of adding width to your attack especially if you have strikers who are good in the air and can head home crosses into the box?

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Rashidi,

I notice that you play with "narrow" as a TI quite a lot especially with narrower formations. Do you find this shout affects the contribution of your wing backs and their ability to bomb forward and put in plenty of crosses. Reason I ask is that with a 4132 or a 4312 the wing backs will be an important part of adding width to your attack especially if you have strikers who are good in the air and can head home crosses into the box?

Playing narrow is a legacy from the early days when I felt that WBA's passing wasn't good enough, I wanted them to be close together so even if they lost the ball, support wouldn't be far. Having done that I was pleased to see too, that my wingbacks would still bomb forward and exploit the flanks, without the need for shouts. Bear in mind, that bombing forward is encouraged more if you don't have an AML/AMR combo up front. This leaves a lot of space open for them, so there is never an issue for width. People claim that playing narrow makes it dangerous cos you leave the flanks open. That is true to some extent and it can be mitigated with having the right roles in midfield. I have opted for a specific set of roles that close down more by default, coupled with my sides high teamwork and anticipation, this increases defensive coverage.

On my blog I posted a link showing our assists last season. And I was really pleased to see my AM leading with the DLF second and my two wingers backing them up. The previous season, I had my 2 fullbacks leading for assists in the league. So in terms of assists I am very pleased as this is on target with my goals when I first created the system. In fact i was really pleased to see WBA occupying 6 spots out of the top 10 for assists in the league.

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@rashidi1 - here's something I wrote about the same formation, albeit interpreted in a slightly less balanced way:

https://whenseagullsfollowthetrawler.wordpress.com/2015/04/29/pressing-issues-redefining-arsenal/

Incidentally, I hope you don't mind that article pinching one of your images - I'll remove it if it is a problem?

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Nah don't worry bout it, thanks...wow I am an instinctive player :-) I feel stoked, having a horrendous week at work. You just made my week. Thanks. Thats also my first Samba version. I may have changed it...or I could be using a more updated one now. Interesting, how I set that up, that left flank produced a real standout start in my side.

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Samba?? Are you trying to emulate the Joga Bonito system, mate?? Shouldn't it be a 4-2-2-2 or a 3-4-1-2??

It's just a name! Pretty sure rashidi1 just called it the first thing that popped into his head.

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It's just a name! Pretty sure rashidi1 just called it the first thing that popped into his head.

True, but he called his Simeone tactic 4-4-2Diego, so I got confused there :D

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Samba?? Are you trying to emulate the Joga Bonito system, mate?? Shouldn't it be a 4-2-2-2 or a 3-4-1-2??

It's basically a 3-4-1-2/4-2-2-2 anyway if you look at the roles he used and the duties. It can easily morph into both those shapes during a match.

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Rashidi, another question if I may?

I am using a version of your Samba tactic but with a slight change in a role or two and for me anyway it seems to play better with "much higher defensive line". I love it, it plays brilliantly at times with some great results of which the pick were beating Liverpool 4-1 in the Capital One Cup Final and a superb 5-1 win against Chelsea. The only thing attacking wise I find is at times is goal conversion to chance rate. For instance I had 35 shots, 19 on target with 5 CCC's against Burnley but only won 3-1. Anyhow it is great and has rejuvenated my love for FM and plays like a diamond which is the way I want to play.

The great difficulty I am having though is if it is a close match and I want to see it out or a tough away game at one of the big boys. Perfect example was away at Hull in my last game. 3-1 up but they have had a few chances with a ball over the top so I want to see the game out. I try keeping possession but still the same issues occur and of course my attacking intent is diluted. I then think that hitting them on the break is the way forward as my strikers are quick. I change to counter, drop the BWM's to defend, drop CWB's to FB's, take off pressing, remove "much higher DL" and add "pass into space" and "more direct passing", obviously the idea to keep it compact and break quickly. Before I know it Hull are back at 3-3, one goal bizarrely over the top which is exactly what the instructions shouldn't have allowed!

This is a real pain in FM for me as every time I try to go a bit more defensive or negative I concede hence why I always play on the front foot. Maybe I went too negative with my roles and invited pressure I don't know but I would appreciate any pointers on what you do to shut up shop or when you are on the back foot?

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Rashidi, another question if I may?

I am using a version of your Samba tactic but with a slight change in a role or two and for me anyway it seems to play better with "much higher defensive line". I love it, it plays brilliantly at times with some great results of which the pick were beating Liverpool 4-1 in the Capital One Cup Final and a superb 5-1 win against Chelsea. The only thing attacking wise I find is at times is goal conversion to chance rate. For instance I had 35 shots, 19 on target with 5 CCC's against Burnley but only won 3-1. Anyhow it is great and has rejuvenated my love for FM and plays like a diamond which is the way I want to play.

The great difficulty I am having though is if it is a close match and I want to see it out or a tough away game at one of the big boys. Perfect example was away at Hull in my last game. 3-1 up but they have had a few chances with a ball over the top so I want to see the game out. I try keeping possession but still the same issues occur and of course my attacking intent is diluted. I then think that hitting them on the break is the way forward as my strikers are quick. I change to counter, drop the BWM's to defend, drop CWB's to FB's, take off pressing, remove "much higher DL" and add "pass into space" and "more direct passing", obviously the idea to keep it compact and break quickly. Before I know it Hull are back at 3-3, one goal bizarrely over the top which is exactly what the instructions shouldn't have allowed!

This is a real pain in FM for me as every time I try to go a bit more defensive or negative I concede hence why I always play on the front foot. Maybe I went too negative with my roles and invited pressure I don't know but I would appreciate any pointers on what you do to shut up shop or when you are on the back foot?

Why change anything if you are playing well? I only change things if I see something wrong, if we are not creating chances, if we are overrun. If you are leading and you like what you see, then dont change anything. You changed mentality and roles for your FBs, that is to much. Next time if you want to be more conservative try only changing roles for your FBs and leave everything as before.

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Why change anything if you are playing well? I only change things if I see something wrong, if we are not creating chances, if we are overrun. If you are leading and you like what you see, then dont change anything. You changed mentality and roles for your FBs, that is to much. Next time if you want to be more conservative try only changing roles for your FBs and leave everything as before.

It seems that he is always chasing something and often tinkers for the sake of tinkering after following his various threads. He panics and does drastic changes when he doesn't need to at all. He really is his own downfall at times and he creates a lot of his issues :D

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It seems that he is always chasing something and often tinkers for the sake of tinkering after following his various threads. He panics and does drastic changes when he doesn't need to at all. He really is his own downfall at times and he creates a lot of his issues :D

That's a bit "playground" for someone in your position to be honest.

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It seems that he is always chasing something and often tinkers for the sake of tinkering after following his various threads. He panics and does drastic changes when he doesn't need to at all. He really is his own downfall at times and he creates a lot of his issues :D

Guilty as charged at times I admit but on this occasion honestly I am trying to be sensible and have kept the same formation for a season!!!!! I do leave it as it is most of the time now but it's when I am say 2 up and some teams start to come back I try to defend what I have and that is where I struggle. Tried just changing the CWB's to FM S but then it seems that the team loses attacking intent and invites pressure. Any change towards a defensive nature for me seems to invite pressure and I was just interested on how some manage to just see a game out?

Two Cup Finals and a 6th place finish in a first season must mean I am slowly learning. Taken me 15 years and a fantastic template from Rashidi granted, but better late than never!! :o

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That's a bit "playground" for someone in your position to be honest.

Hardly, it's the truth he even admits it himself. It's blunt, direct and straight to the point. And he's not the only one, people have something that works and then they make changes when they don't really need to and constantly tweak things. Then they find they become more inconsistent and results suffer.

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Guilty as charged at times I admit but on this occasion honestly I am trying to be sensible and have kept the same formation for a season!!!!! I do leave it as it is most of the time now but it's when I am say 2 up and some teams start to come back I try to defend what I have and that is where I struggle. Tried just changing the CWB's to FM S but then it seems that the team loses attacking intent and invites pressure. Any change towards a defensive nature for me seems to invite pressure and I was just interested on how some manage to just see a game out?

Two Cup Finals and a 6th place finish in a first season must mean I am slowly learning. Taken me 15 years and a fantastic template from Rashidi granted, but better late than never!! :o

What makes you think you have to change though? I understand you said they are getting back into the game but how do you know what you are already using isn't going to work and see out the game? Myself I hardly ever make in game changes and if I did it would only be a simple mentality change 99% of the time.

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What makes you think you have to change though? I understand you said they are getting back into the game but how do you know what you are already using isn't going to work and see out the game? Myself I hardly ever make in game changes and if I did it would only be a simple mentality change 99% of the time.

Purely and simply at times because I play a high line the opposition find the opportunity to break through the middle and later in the game my CWB's can get caught up the field.

Rashidi himself on post 6540 of the Stupid Questions thread suggested the possibility of lowering the wing backs to full backs on support and maybe going to counter whilst lowering pressing but as I say it just seems to invite pressure for me and I was wondering if there is more that he does in that situation as I was intrigued if having high pressing roles such as the BWM S's in the CM strata may go against a counter mentality.

I rarely do change now but the Hull game we were getting split open and I felt it was only a matter of time. You are right if I hadn't changed anything I may well have seen out the game that's football, but in my defence I did make changes as to what I thought our weakness was.

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Purely and simply at times because I play a high line the opposition find the opportunity to break through the middle and later in the game my CWB's can get caught up the field.Rashidi himself on post 6540 of the Stupid Questions thread suggested the possibility of lowering the wing backs to full backs on support and maybe going to counter whilst lowering pressing but as I say it just seems to invite pressure for me and I was wondering if there is more that he does in that situation as I was intrigued if having high pressing roles such as the BWM S's in the CM strata may go against a counter mentality.I rarely do change now but the Hull game we were getting split open and I felt it was only a matter of time. You are right if I hadn't changed anything I may well have seen out the game that's football, but in my defence I did make changes as to what I thought our weakness was.
I noticed u play with a high line with attacking wingbacks, which is quite dangerous. The CWB will leave gaps behind, which is why I have never used it. The higher pressing my front line do doesn't affect the way the Wingbacks defend. Out of 10 games I may only drop to counter in 1 game, in most instances the change I do is usually a result of seeing my side placed on the back foot for considerable periods of time and also due to the situation I find myself in. If a side attacks me with AMs on the flanks or with overlapping fullbacks I usu just ask the FB to go on support.Switching to counter is very rare. Furthermore if u find that this neuters ur attack then you need to look at your AMC too, you shld really have variety in attack.Won't be able to respond for the next few days cos I think today is B-day. The baby boy looks like he wants to come out and play.

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I noticed u play with a high line with attacking wingbacks, which is quite dangerous. The CWB will leave gaps behind, which is why I have never used it. The higher pressing my front line do doesn't affect the way the Wingbacks defend. Out of 10 games I may only drop to counter in 1 game, in most instances the change I do is usually a result of seeing my side placed on the back foot for considerable periods of time and also due to the situation I find myself in. If a side attacks me with AMs on the flanks or with overlapping fullbacks I usu just ask the FB to go on support.Switching to counter is very rare. Furthermore if u find that this neuters ur attack then you need to look at your AMC too, you shld really have variety in attack.Won't be able to respond for the next few days cos I think today is B-day. The baby boy looks like he wants to come out and play.

Thanks for the reply Rashidi.

For some reason a high line works better for me. Possibly something to do with my use of a Complete Forward or maybe down to the stats of my defenders not sure although it plays better with both my CB's on defend. If I have one on cover I get caught but with both on defend it seems quite solid.

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I generally use control/flexible with push higher up close down more and don't get caught out too often even when using attacking fb/wb, but in pre season I removed push up and either used no TIs regarding def line. Amazingly it was in attack I noticed the difference more, we seemed to have acres of space in the hole, the only downside to that was we passed the ball more over long distances than I like, and when using control/flexible with drop deeper we get fantastic results against better teams, while still having 50% possession. I use a 4-1-2-3 wide. The only downside seems to be that my wing backs don't seem to get as involved if I use drop deeper. Its almost become a counter attacking system (which wasn't the plan) but it works beautifully!

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Apologies for taking so long to respond, my hands are kinda full atm at home:-).

Its not uncommon to find success with a high line when employing a control strategy, a lot depends on your overall shape and your roles. I find that its even easier if you have playing with a DM strata, in which case the risk of a high line is mitigated by the number of defensive strata's employed. Having a clear goal on how you want your side to play out is critical. You should always expect to see your attacking wingbacks take some time to get involved, just keep looking at where they start attacking flanks, in most cases it will only happen when in possession and your team is camped in the opponents half. This is one of the reasons why I value the PI, take less risk for passing on fullbacks/wingbacks.

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Rashidi, I'd be interested to know.....how do you deal with going a man down?

I usually remove the left sided striker in the system. He's the one that always goes, I will always maintain the defensive and midfield stratas at all cost

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The year is 2022, and, we're now in our 8th season with WBA. We have joined the billion dollar elite group and are close to being the most reputable side on the planet, only Real Madrid stand in our way.

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If there's one thing I hear on the forums that's annoying is the contention that a bad run of form is inevitable. I find that to be the most misleading statement I've ever heard on the forums, its been a myth for almost as long as I can remember. The game isn't hard and we're on a 126 game unbeaten run, my focus at the moment is to keep this run going for as long as possible. My prep work for each game is super simple - nothing.

I don't do an iota of research. We keep things simple, and line up with the best possible combination of players we can each game. Our next match is against Real Madrid, its a home tie against the most reputable side on the planet. We are the best side on the planet having won the ECL now 6 times in a row.

We have had some challenging matches this season, which needed a reaction: either a substitution or a change in strategy. We have kept things simple by following a certain logic.

Overall System

We are playing my 4312 system which is slightly different from the Samba system I put up, but it still attacks the same way. It differs slightly in the way the trident attack force works and in how the central midfielders cover and close down.

The goal of my system is for chances to come from two important areas: Crosses/Cutbacks from the fullbacks or killer balls from my AMC. The MCs act as a fulcrum to recycle possession. When we look at succession planning, I replace like for like where I can. So if I am using a ball winning midfielder in the mould of A, then when his time is up, his successor should have similar attributes where possible. As far as PPMs go these will depend on the player, however the ppms of my strike force and fullbacks I will ensure get adopted by successive players in the position.

In game changes

During the course of any match, knowing my weaknesses is key. By using two complete wingbacks I am well aware of the fact that my flanks will face pressure. If I am playing against any side it will be important to monitor how they are doing, if I find that they are always tracking or trying to race back to catch up with an opposing player thats broken in behind them, then I know the strategy needs to be changed and they should be dropped down to a fullback on support. The FB(S) duty has a deeper starting point for defensive coverage than a CWB, this will ensure that he is slightly deeper on attacks.

If at any point I find that we are being overwhelmed, and a side is indeed getting the better of us and are more attacking than my attacking strategy, it can only mean that this side is willing to throw a lot of risk at us. At this point we will drop down to counter and try and hit them off the break.

Our strategy in attack will be to play at a higher tempo with more closing down. This makes sense since we will be in the opponents half, but, when we are counter, we will close down by the default amount and will also play at the default tempo. If for any reason during the course of a match I find that my attack is having to wait to catch up with the fullbacks too often then I will also drop tempo, but maintain our attacking intent. Tempo will also be reduced for matches where I reckon players conditioning is being threatened.

Since we are playing a narrow system, there is a heavy requirement that my MCs get in the game, they need to win the ball and work the ball. In fact I expect them to. This means atrributes like high work rate, anticipation are vital, and if at any point I notice that my MCs are not putting in their defensive shift they will need to be replaced. There is a strong possibility that the MC in the middle who is a designated PM may find himself with little to nothing to do in matches we completely dominate, so his rating will not be something I worry about.

In a nutshell:

Against a good side that's attacking me down the flanks and playing with an aggressive posture where I am close to 50% possession but not exceeding it, I will drop to counter and tell my CWB > FB.

Against a side thats not attacking me as much where I dominate possession I will stick to Attacking and play with CWB. If this side plays with AMs that threaten my CWB, I will change them to FB(S) and monitor. We should regain the flanks 9 times out of 10.

We will monitor the two flanking MCs to ensure they put in a defensive shift, and when needed we will adjust tempo to suit the situation in the game.

WBA v REAL MADRID

This is how we plan to lineup, we have a few key players who are injured, but we will strive to play the same way.

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I expect to see Real Madrid play off the counter, and try and work the ball quickly to their forwards. I don't expect this to be much of a problem. We should work a good few chances. After 15 minutes I notice we are completely dominating the match, so I elect to drop tempo. This should allow us to build up more quality chances.

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A minute after making this change, a patient passing pattern unlocks Real Madrid for our first goal on 17 minutes. 6 passes to 10 who finds 9 to score the opener.

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A minute after the first goal we score our second. At this point I start paying attention to what Real Madrid will do. Madrid stick to their game plan, we maintain ours as we are literally camped in their half looking for a 3rd, which we find 5 minutes later.

Real Madrid are now playing more direct football, they find Ronaldo with two passes from defense, and I begin considering going counter, but withhold that decision unless my flanks are threatened. I see no point in going counter because by playing in their half I make it harder for them to build up play, the pressure we exert force Madrid on the back foot. Ronaldo does give us a few moments of angst as these deep balls keep finding him, we almost concede a goal when the ball is bundled clear of our goal line, but we still maintain the aggressive posture.

We concede a goal on 31min as a midfielder dallies on the ball while in possession, I imagine him slipping on his butt while in possession and gifting the ball to Rodriguez who gleefully scores. The rating of my player doesn't drop drastically he's at 6.7 which is good.

We are 3-1 up on the break and go 4-1 up minutes after the restart. I am waiting for Madrid to do something different, but we are disappointed. We see the match out 4-1. We are now 127 games in without losing a match in all competitions.

Our next match home to Spurs, who are one of the few sides this season to deny us all 3 points. Spurs are lining up with a 4231. Now in most cases even without knowing their specific duties, I will always convert my CWB to a FB when I face a wide 4231, and maintain our attacking intent. However this is one match where I will pay attention to the start to see if I need to drop to counter. We shall start on attacking and adjust if I find that my FB(S) need more support from my MCs.

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6 minutes in and one my MC's rocks their upright, we are firmly entrenched in their half. I know that a 4231 is best neutralised if you can isolate their AM strata from their defense, if you force the gap, they need to launch balls up which is why we convert our CWB. For now we will keep attacking to isolate them further, while being on the lookout for a counter.

16 minutes in we take the lead, and we drop our tempo, with the return ECL leg next, we can afford to be patient.

36 minutes in and Spurs have yet to record their first SOG. We add a second. I make changes to my trident strike force, they have had a long season, and these players need to be looked after. At the interval we take them off. Spurs maintain their system of play. We add a third but

Spurs pull one back from a set piece. Its not enough to warrant a change in strategy. The Lily Whites are decimated 5-1. Now we're off to Spain.

The Spaniards are down 4-1 from the first leg. And they are lining up in a rather attacking system.

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Now without knowing their roles you can tell simply by the way the FBs are positioned that they are playing with an attacking FB on the left and with that DLP surging forward I should expect to see Ronaldo cut in a lot, this could prove to place considerable pressure on my right flank, which is my most creative attacking outlet.

We will stick to attacking, but will play with the left CWB converted to a FB(S). Out right CWB is just way too important, we will keep our tempo up and hope to secure the first goal. We will also standby to drop to counter quickly if needed.

6 minutes in, and against the run of play we score the first goal off a corner. Real Madrid immediately change tack and go on the offensive. Its clear even without seeing the roles that a few players are now positioned higher than before. We drop to counter

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The first clue I had that we were in trouble in spite of taking the lead was our low possession numbers. Its not something that should bother people, but in my system of play, I am not used to seeing less of the ball. Our system relies on ball retention and recycling. 5 minutes after making the change, we build play up patiently to score the second goal.

Counter is a mentality setting which tells your team to use the ball wisely and not give it away and when the opportunity arises to strike the team from deep in your own half, to move the ball quickly up. Our system is already extremely offensive as it strives to overpower certain areas of the pitch, however we remain cognizant of the threat that will come from yielding some possession.

They score 5 minutes from the break, possession is pretty even. The half time stats aren't impressive. My defense and midfield are not doing as well as I normally expect. The pass completion rates of my fullbacks aren't good, so we elect to drop them both to FB(S) and return to an attacking mentality played at high tempo. My strategy of going counter may not have been the right one. If my backs are not getting in the game we are not going to exert the pressure on their backline.

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We managed to improve our passing percentages, and keep them at bay, but lose two players in the process - the downside of playing an aggressive game. Our unbeaten run continues. West Brom book a place at the Stade de France for the final. 129 without loss. We have 3 games in 5 days, time to give my players an extra day off from training. An exhausted team time to give the youth a chance.

Next up Watford, can they just give me 3 points? Why do they have to give me a headache before the game even starts!?! This system should isolate itself! However, if that attacking strata gives us a headache we will convert the CWB to a FB.

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That right AM of Watford could be an issue so I make two changes.

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It had to be Watford, we start the game, but they have the better start as they score from the expected interplay of their attacking strata. This is going to be a game which i will need to play at low tempo, with so many of their players back we are going to have the build the ball and work it into the box. We managed to equalise off a penalty and then miss the next penalty.

We are doing better with the ball but are missing a lot of clear cut chances, I know that the game should be won, so I make no changes, these are mostly my reserves so I do expect this to be a grind.

We go into the break even, and minutes after the restart we go a goal up. Two of our players seem to be struggling, even though they are pushing 6.6 in ratings, one of them is playing a key role in midfield to cover for the fullbacks. As a ball winning midfielder he should be doing more so I make 2 subs, and I am glad to see, moments later that the new player is covering more blades of grass. We manage to extend the lead with 15 left on the clock. Watford are deflated as we extend our lead further with injury time looming. The changes made proving crucial, this run is proving to be extremely stressful, time to take a break. We have reached 130 games without loss.

runs.jpg?w=660

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Consistency is possible, I have a few simple rules:

Win Midfield - Its always the first thing I look at, if they are winning the ball there, its always a good sign, player selection is vital

Make sure you protect your flanks. If and when I need to pull my CWB to a FB, I know I am sacrificing something going forward, here I look at my AMC and my F9 to see if they can act as pivots. The F9 is really important as he links up play.

I rate OTB highly and having the right players who can do movement off the ball helps. There is nothing wrong playing a CF up top, but if I choose to do that I know I am going to depend even more on the fullback on his flank to get up, the danger of using a CF on attack is that his influence extends to only around the penalty area, and thats the real reason why I value OTB so highly.

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Consistency is possible, I have a few simple rules:

Win Midfield - Its always the first thing I look at, if they are winning the ball there, its always a good sign, player selection is vital

Make sure you protect your flanks. If and when I need to pull my CWB to a FB, I know I am sacrificing something going forward, here I look at my AMC and my F9 to see if they can act as pivots. The F9 is really important as he links up play.

I rate OTB highly and having the right players who can do movement off the ball helps. There is nothing wrong playing a CF up top, but if I choose to do that I know I am going to depend even more on the fullback on his flank to get up, the danger of using a CF on attack is that his influence extends to only around the penalty area, and thats the real reason why I value OTB so highly.

If you used a CFA as your main striker then Rashidi what would you pair him up with? I have used everything from a DLF to a F9. My issue with a F9 was him just shooting from everywhere. At his best Valencia as a CF has the runs down right with ball PPM so also creates a lot of goals.

As another experiment at start of season 5 I am now trying

TQ A------CF A

------AM A----

It's going ok with me unbeaten and top of the League and the goals are being shared around rather than the CF being the mainstay but I am a bit worried about too many on attack duty.

My forwards are Bony, Valencia, Fierro, Barbosa with either Wislhire or Payet behind them. If I wanted to keep the CF A on the right would you set it up differently? Appreciated.

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If you used a CFA as your main striker then Rashidi what would you pair him up with? I have used everything from a DLF to a F9. My issue with a F9 was him just shooting from everywhere. At his best Valencia as a CF has the runs down right with ball PPM so also creates a lot of goals.

As another experiment at start of season 5 I am now trying

TQ A------CF A

------AM A----

It's going ok with me unbeaten and top of the League and the goals are being shared around rather than the CF being the mainstay but I am a bit worried about too many on attack duty.

My forwards are Bony, Valencia, Fierro, Barbosa with either Wislhire or Payet behind them. If I wanted to keep the CF A on the right would you set it up differently? Appreciated.

Hmm if your F9 is doing that I would be more inclined to either change tempo first, if your F9 is always shooting from anywhere, it could mean there are no good passing options, his teamwork, vision is low, his teammates are not moving off the ball enough.. My F9 is the top scorer and the top assist creator at the moment.

If I were using a CF I would probably pair him up with a player who has a supporting role but I don't like to use CF(A) at the moment, they are just too static for my liking, and this forces me to get my FBs up in support nearly 100% of the time. Cos if the CF(A) drops deep too often to link up then I know I have issues. I would prob pair him up with a DLF(S) or an F9 but not a TQ since i have an AM already and my 3 MCs are solid enough to support. So the TQ's dropping deep will be wasted. If I was operating without an AM then I would use a TQ since I would need a water carrier.

I would make sure that if i were using a CF then my fb will be on attack, this means my MC® needs to be superb

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Hmm if your F9 is doing that I would be more inclined to either change tempo first, if your F9 is always shooting from anywhere, it could mean there are no good passing options, his teamwork, vision is low, his teammates are not moving off the ball enough.. My F9 is the top scorer and the top assist creator at the moment.

If I were using a CF I would probably pair him up with a player who has a supporting role but I don't like to use CF(A) at the moment, they are just too static for my liking, and this forces me to get my FBs up in support nearly 100% of the time. Cos if the CF(A) drops deep too often to link up then I know I have issues. I would prob pair him up with a DLF(S) or an F9 but not a TQ since i have an AM already and my 3 MCs are solid enough to support. So the TQ's dropping deep will be wasted. If I was operating without an AM then I would use a TQ since I would need a water carrier.

I would make sure that if i were using a CF then my fb will be on attack, this means my MC® needs to be superb

Well generally I play this -

_________xxx_______CF A_________

_____________AM A______________

______BWM S_DLP D____BWM S____

CWB A___CB D_____CB D_____CWB A_

_____________SK S_______________

The xxx is where I have tried every role possible and none are consistent. Sometimes I just play plain wing backs rather than CWB's. Players in the xxx position vary from Bony, Barbosa, Fierro, so not poor players. In the AM A slot I have either Dmitri Payet or Jack Wilshire,. Any striker bags a fair few as CF A which is why I am reluctant to change it and hence why I wondered if another attack duty striker on the left would help if the CF A drops deep. Plus if you have two forwards dropping deep that may hinder the work done by the AM as possibly he will have less space. To be honest I got more goals out of the AM A when playing him as a SS but the team didn't defend as well with the SS.

In the midfield I have the likes of Poyet (DLP) and Romero, Song, Kranevitter (now sold), Sven Bender in there so again not bad players,.

Generally that left sided forward slot is a problem though, Prior to the last patch a DF S was fantastic and scored me a lot of goals but as I say I struggle to get any role with any consistency there.

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The reason why I like the way I set it up is because I want to generate movement and hence the choice for a DLF and F9. Since I have flying backs these guys invariably drift wide opening up more space.

When you are using a CF you tend to reduce movement and start having a focal point in the box which will help the AM. I tend to look at my left sided striker has a pivot or a creator and when I go a man down he's the one I always take off.

I doubt you are ever going to get all 3 to be top scorers I do believe that the left sided striker will have some good days but the other two will be the stars. I don't really worry bout it in my system since we are already scoring so many goals and that position becomes my "training position". It's the one area of the pitch I can try players out on.

You may want to try one of th support roles there and make sure he has good OTB strength passing vision and decisions

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I've been a fan of the CF-a for some time now but there more I play the more it feels like, in my tactic, it's a role that leads to a striker isolated and making selfish decisions.

CF-a

Treq

WM-a CM-s DLP-d WM-a

WB-s CD-x CD-d WB-s

I've been noticing the Treq drops very very deep at times. Surprisingly so. For instance when we win the ball back deep in our half, my players try to get it to the CF-a as quickly as possible. Now when the CF-a has the ball in this situation, I'd expect him to try and hold up play somewhat while the rest of the attackers move up to support him. Instead I've seen a lot of the CF-a trying one man counter attacks.

In fact I see it a lot with the CF-a; immediately sprinting forward into a sea defenders in various situations. Frankly I think it's because of isolation.

So right now I am considering switching to a CF-s instructed to move into channels or a roaming DLF-a. I think I'd prefer a CF-s because I'd still want him taking people on but hopefully, with the support duty, in a less gung ho manner. While still moving into channels and giving the opposition CBs something to think about. Hopefully.

I see the same thing happen with my WMs (they have the dribble more PI) as well as the treq. The only difference is they usually have some form of support if they get themselves into trouble.

I've always been a fan of lots of dribbling. But given the selfish behavior I witness from time to time with my players given free will to dribble whenever, I'm starting to rethink it.

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Some people just can see the Matrix :)

Awesome thread ! How do you keep on playing this game when it's this easy for you ?!?

Would be hilarious if some team in real life would go ~300 games unbeaten run and won champions league 6 times in a row. UEFA probably would have to invent new rules to game to keep it interesting somehow (ban the team from any competitions).

Keep up the good work :applause:

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Think I understand your thoughts on a CF A as it possibly seems to be the cause of my destruction as if he doesn't score I am scuppered. So confused on clusters of defeats in FMC. I lost 2 games in 26 and now I haven't won any in 5?! Back to the drawing board!!

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Think I understand your thoughts on a CF A as it possibly seems to be the cause of my destruction as if he doesn't score I am scuppered. So confused on clusters of defeats in FMC. I lost 2 games in 26 and now I haven't won any in 5?! Back to the drawing board!!

Why is it back to the drawing board and not just a case of simple changes to get you winning again? You seem very defeatist :D

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Im playing with Atletico Madrid, having been inspired by your excellent post about them. Im trying to setup my tactic(counter, fluid) as Simeone, but Im struggling a bit. Have some questions about the central mid pair(Tiago and Gabi), I have Tiago as bwm d and Gabi as cm s. Tiago also has mark tighter as PI but whatabout Gabi? As I understand the central midfield pair in Simeones team is all about defending, winning the ball and distribute the ball to the more creative wing players (Koke wp a, Turan wm a). How could I get this to work?

My teamsetup: fb s- cd d-cd d-cwb a wp a-bwm d-cm s-wm a f9-df d, TI: direct passing, pass into space, early crosses, whipped crosses, play narrower, higher tempo, be more disciplined. As I understand Simeone wants his wingbacks to contribute in the attacking phase as the wp and wm cut inside making room for them. As I said earlier I have read the thread but I feel I could use some more pointers about central midfield pair and wingbacks, please help

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Why is it back to the drawing board and not just a case of simple changes to get you winning again? You seem very defeatist :D

Not being defeatist just a tad confused with regard to clusters of defeats after particularly good runs, and it happens most seasons, so a bizarre lack of consistency with seemingly no real rhyme or reason to it, although obviously there is!!

Could be put down to overconfidence then a sudden morale drop after a couple of defeats but not sure if they really apply too much in FMC>?!

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How would one defend vs all these 3 striker tactics out there. I play a lot online so i'm playing other humans not the AI and most of them use these over-powered 3 striker tactics. Here's one for example?

EQlyiQY.png

Would greatly appreciate the help! Thanks!

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Sorry guys havent' had much time to get on the forums, I am super busy at the moment and will try and get back to some of you. For those facing the 3 striker systems, its still all about controlling space vs possession.

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Pretty bog basic,

attacking corners: fullbacks defending, best headers attacking near and far and from deep, tacklers lurking, one to close down, and striker who has strength or pace to stay forward. Almost the same set up for freekicks.

Defensively I am a man marker, with 2 marking tall targets. and two on posts.

tbh most of the time I just leave on default, make sure one dude is upfront attacking when defending..and if I notice a problem then I make the changes. I know there are some who leave I think 3 or 4 players to default setting as well.

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Some of your tactics have offside trap ticked with a defender on cover. Isnt this a contradiction? Apologies if asked before

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Why would it even matter? Whether you have offside trap or not depends entirely on how attacking you want to be. Sometimes its even easier to play with an offside trap if you have only one player who needs to worry about having to catch others offside. My only rule is if I want to be attacking, have offside trap on regardless of how my backline is set up, I just need the extra security. If I am on anything less than standard I take it off.

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