Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community

Recommended Posts

He didn't "do nothing", he chose the "wrong" option in a chat. Doing nothing would be ignoring the player concerns and refusing to partake in said meetings.

That is IMO to simplistic. You are looking at this as a mini game where picking option A will have result A, picking option B will have result B and picking option C will have result C. I'm as certain as I can be without knowing the code that it's not that easy.

I agree though that he didn't do nothing. Everything in life is doing something. Even ignoring the player and refusing to attend meetings is doing something. So let me rephrase. He did not do enough...

The situation that he promised the board to fix stayed unresolved and the board decided that they could not trust him because he did not keep his promise. He was sacked.

I would like to know what he did after he made the promise. Did he do anything to better morale?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He didn't "do nothing", he chose the "wrong" option in a chat. Doing nothing would be ignoring the player concerns and refusing to partake in said meetings.

Personally I don't think saying "trust me" is such a bad option, given he's just led them to a domestic double and is a former international footballer, but obviously most in here disagree.

It reads as if this happened during the season, before the double was won. If a former international along the lines of Robbie Keane or Jermain Defoe retired tomorrow and took charge of Man United, annoyed Rooney and then just told him "trust me", I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be impressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your sure are you...

Don't know if that one was directed at me, but since it was right below my post with no other quotes I am going to assume that it was.

By the way. very helpful comment... It really contributed to the topic discussed here...

Back on topic...

No I am not sure. None of us are, because we do not have access to the code. All we have to go on is our own observations and what little info SI wants us to know.

Everything I say is based on my own observations playing FM. An educated guess if it pleases you...

My observation is that if it was as easy at CityAndColour wants you to believe then the results would always be the same. Picking option A would always lead to unhappy players. Picking option B would always strengthen morale and so on...

However we do know for a fact that this is not the case. Because if we pick option A on 10 different scenarios we know that we will not always get the same results. Actually we will probably get 3 or 4 different results at the very least.

One time the player (Rooney, Joe Doe or whomever) will be annoyed, but based on his standing within the squad he will not get support from the other players. Case closed. You have one unhappy player, but he can be turned around and the board will not get involved.

The next time it will be a more influential player that reacts and he gets the support of most of your squad, you got a revolt. Board gets involved. You promise to fix it, and do. Case closed. Board is satisfied that you kept your word. Job is safe.

Another time it's the same as above, but this time you don't manage to fix the situation. Board are unhappy that you broke your promise, and since you only just recently joined the club and your rep is low they drop the axe.

We can go on. Same as above, but you have stayed at the club for ten years. You have won everything there is to win. However you can't fix the player revolt and you break your promise to the board. As a club legend with a sky high reputation the board decides that the consequences of firing you will be to great so you keep your job.

I can sit here and list several more scenarios like the ones above. All things that we know can happened in the game.

You always have to take context into account in these situations. Look at how likely you are to resolve the situation. Can you afford to make this player angry? Is he likely to get the rest of the squad unhappy? And if the board gets involved you have to look at how many players are unhappy. How likely are you to get the majority happy again? Are you close to a transfer window so that you can get rid of the troublemaker (I have found that selling the original troublemaker will make the rest forget their troubles.) Maybe the troublemaker is to important to your team so you can't sell him. Would a team meeting turn him around. And if he is to important to sell then maybe you should not have pissed him of in the first place? Sometimes the correct choice is actually giving the player what he wants. And if it's not very likely that you will turn the squad around. How wise is it to tell the board that you will do so in the first place?

As i said. Looking at it as picking the wrong choice in a conversation is just to simplistic IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It reads as if this happened during the season, before the double was won. If a former international along the lines of Robbie Keane or Jermain Defoe retired tomorrow and took charge of Man United, annoyed Rooney and then just told him "trust me", I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be impressed.

I read it as he won the double, then sold Powell and the players were acting up despite being top of the league again the next season. Otherwise he would have sold Powell in January, put up with unhappy players until May, scooped the double and then been sacked for squad harmony issues (which would be even sillier).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My observation is that if it was as easy at CityAndColour wants you to believe then the results would always be the same. Picking option A would always lead to unhappy players. Picking option B would always strengthen morale and so on... .

I didn't say that at all, I was just responding to your comment that he did nothing, which isn't true. Rather he picked the option he thought was appropriate and it didn't turn out to be so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It reads as if this happened during the season, before the double was won. If a former international along the lines of Robbie Keane or Jermain Defoe retired tomorrow and took charge of

Man United, annoyed Rooney and then just told him "trust me", I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be impressed.

Because it's that easy to retire and jump straight into management...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's crazy for a successful manager to be sacked for selling a "hot prospect" such as Nick Powell. Others say that chairmen make erratic decisions in real life, but I don't think this should be put in the game to this extent as it would make too many of us FM nuts unhappy. Yes, we want the game to be realistic but at least give us a fair chance.

I've also just been sacked from my job at Everton for failing to improve squad harmony.

This all came about because I sold my central midfielder and I had promised my goalkeeper that I would replace him which I duly did. But weeks later, there's a team meeting about how they are unhappy with the treatment of the keeper because I didn't sign a replacement midfielder. The irony is, the new midfielder that I signed even attended the team meeting and also became very unhappy.

Then I meet with the board where they give me an ultimatum: improve squad harmony in a month or get sacked. 3 wins later, morale is still poor. How the hell am I supposed to do anything about this? Despite the previous season being the best so far, and having done a lot for the club, I get thrown out like this.

I'm delighted to see comments that interaction will be tweaked. It's about time that SI recognise that this is a massive problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's crazy for a successful manager to be sacked for selling a "hot prospect" such as Nick Powell. Others say that chairmen make erratic decisions in real life, but I don't think this should be put in the game to this extent as it would make too many of us FM nuts unhappy. Yes, we want the game to be realistic but at least give us a fair chance.

I've also just been sacked from my job at Everton for failing to improve squad harmony.

This all came about because I sold my central midfielder and I had promised my goalkeeper that I would replace him which I duly did. But weeks later, there's a team meeting about how they are unhappy with the treatment of the keeper because I didn't sign a replacement midfielder. The irony is, the new midfielder that I signed even attended the team meeting and also became very unhappy.

Then I meet with the board where they give me an ultimatum: improve squad harmony in a month or get sacked. 3 wins later, morale is still poor. How the hell am I supposed to do anything about this? Despite the previous season being the best so far, and having done a lot for the club, I get thrown out like this.

I'm delighted to see comments that interaction will be tweaked. It's about time that SI recognise that this is a massive problem.

Absolutely mind blowing . How can the replacement you signed join the meeting about signing no replacement, incredible. Hopefully it will get sorted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's laughable that people are actually defending player interactions in this game.

So massively broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's laughable that people are actually defending player interactions in this game.

So massively broken.

There's always someone who's defending the flaws in this game, which is why it takes so long for them to get fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's laughable that people are actually defending player interactions in this game.

So massively broken.

The point is its not "massively broken", sure its not perfect and there are tweaks that are needed in places for those that are actual bugs.

The problem is some users complain about things which aren't bugs but simply bad management and won't accept that they are doing something wrong. This doesn't just apply to player interaction either its exactly the same with tactics, injuries, selling players, buying players etc etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The point is its not "massively broken", sure its not perfect and there are tweaks that are needed in places for those that are actual bugs.

The problem is some users complain about things which aren't bugs but simply bad management and won't accept that they are doing something wrong. This doesn't just apply to player interaction either its exactly the same with tactics, injuries, selling players, buying players etc etc.

Yes it is. Praise a player for scoring in an international and he throws a hissy fit.

Okay, the only alternative to calling it "broken" is that it is inadequate. The options available don't always reflect what the situation truly is. For instance, when I sold Petr Cech at Chelsea, half the squad got annoyed. I need an option that says, "I know he's a legend around here, and being a Chelsea fan I love him, but we have an even better keeper now and it seems a waste to let him rot on our bench when he can play for another great club somewhere else." But the options I am offered are, "I am signing a replacement" - No, I have Courtoius, or "Sorry I am going to back down." or something of the sort.

Without adequate options, the benefit of the doubt should always go to the human manager imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes it is. Praise a player for scoring in an international and he throws a hissy fit.

Well that depends on the player, his personality and the way you praise him just like real life.

Okay, the only alternative to calling it "broken" is that it is inadequate. The options available don't always reflect what the situation truly is. For instance, when I sold Petr Cech at Chelsea, half the squad got annoyed. I need an option that says, "I know he's a legend around here, and being a Chelsea fan I love him, but we have an even better keeper now and it seems a waste to let him rot on our bench when he can play for another great club somewhere else." But the options I am offered are, "I am signing a replacement" - No, I have Courtoius, or "Sorry I am going to back down." or something of the sort.

I can agree with that.

There are certainly areas of the interaction where more or clearer options are needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree that player conversations aren't working as intended. I've just had Arjen Robben ask to leave Bayern. I initially tried to persuade him to stay but he still wanted to go, so I agreed to sell him. The next mail I got was bid from Chelsea, which I negotiated and then accepted.

It gets to deadline day and Robben decides he's not joining Chelsea due to Wage, signing on fee and appearance bonus. I then get mass hysteria from my whole squad blaming me for not selling Robben to Chelsea, when it's Robben himself who has stopped the transfer. I hold a team meeting to discuss the issue, where the only options are to justify why I won't sell him! I agreed to sell him, it's not my fault he can't agree terms!

Thankfully I've got the editor so just edited out the player unhappiness, but that's a really poor mans work around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, the only alternative to calling it "broken" is that it is inadequate. The options available don't always reflect what the situation truly is. For instance, when I sold Petr Cech at Chelsea, half the squad got annoyed. I need an option that says, "I know he's a legend around here, and being a Chelsea fan I love him, but we have an even better keeper now and it seems a waste to let him rot on our bench when he can play for another great club somewhere else." But the options I am offered are, "I am signing a replacement" - No, I have Courtoius, or "Sorry I am going to back down." or something of the sort.

I think this underlines another issue, in that the "squad upset with selling a player" seems to be triggered by selling youngsters and back ups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would agree that player conversations aren't working as intended. I've just had Arjen Robben ask to leave Bayern. I initially tried to persuade him to stay but he still wanted to go, so I agreed to sell him. The next mail I got was bid from Chelsea, which I negotiated and then accepted.

It gets to deadline day and Robben decides he's not joining Chelsea due to Wage, signing on fee and appearance bonus. I then get mass hysteria from my whole squad blaming me for not selling Robben to Chelsea, when it's Robben himself who has stopped the transfer. I hold a team meeting to discuss the issue, where the only options are to justify why I won't sell him! I agreed to sell him, it's not my fault he can't agree terms!

Thankfully I've got the editor so just edited out the player unhappiness, but that's a really poor mans work around.

But if you don't report things like this, how do you expect it to get fixed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But if you don't report things like this, how do you expect it to get fixed?

We've paid for a finished product. It should never be the responsibility of the consumer to test something so the manufacturer knows what's wrong it. Games companies need to stop hiding behind patching and do their jobs properly to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A mod should really close this thread before the same posters come in with the same replies causing the same shitfights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We've paid for a finished product. It should never be the responsibility of the consumer to test something so the manufacturer knows what's wrong it. Games companies need to stop hiding behind patching and do their jobs properly to begin with.

Its clear you have very little experience of the software industry.

With a game like FM its impossible to test everything which is why they rely on users to report actual bugs or those areas which are simply down to a matter of opinion. If games weren't released until they were 100% bug free there would never be any released at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We've paid for a finished product. It should never be the responsibility of the consumer to test something so the manufacturer knows what's wrong it. Games companies need to stop hiding behind patching and do their jobs properly to begin with.

I completely agree with that but with this game that seems to be the way it is.

Its clear you have very little experience of the software industry.

With a game like FM its impossible to test everything which is why they rely on users to report actual bugs or those areas which are simply down to a matter of opinion. If games weren't released until they were 100% bug free there would never be any released at all.

You don't need experience in the software industry to expect a finished product. SI could have released loads of patches by now but they choose to do it once the transfer window is complete. FM14's match engine was terrible until they released the last patch. They're doing the same thing again this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its clear you have very little experience of the software industry.

With a game like FM its impossible to test everything which is why they rely on users to report actual bugs or those areas which are simply down to a matter of opinion. If games weren't released until they were 100% bug free there would never be any released at all.

You forgot to mention that a new version of FM comes out every year. That means that the amount of time you get to play a bug-free product, is probably 6 months, after the winter update till the release of a new version, then everything starts over again. ;)

On a more serious note, there has been some shocking lack of QC sometimes. Can't remember every single bug, but there was a version where Nicholas Anelka had a bugged playing ban or something. There have been blatant bugs which are shockingly missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Because it's that easy to retire and jump straight into management...

Not normally at a club like Man United. So it should be bloody difficult to do it in FM. I'm sure if you pick a club more reasonable for a first job as an ex-pro, you'll have a much easier time getting players to respect you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not normally at a club like Man United. So it should be bloody difficult to do it in FM. I'm sure if you pick a club more reasonable for a first job as an ex-pro, you'll have a much easier time getting players to respect you.

Winning a domestic league should mean an instant bond and mutual respect with the players involved, regardless of your background. This is an area where reputation is too rigid in terms of how long it can take to increase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Winning a domestic league should mean an instant bond and mutual respect with the players involved, regardless of your background. This is an area where reputation is too rigid in terms of how long it can take to increase.

I just won the league in my first season and my job security went to untouchable. Same club as the OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Players whine too much and have too much power. This game is more of a babysitting simulator than a football manager game these days. I am holding out hope it gets tweaked some for the upcoming patch.

It is my belief that the transfer system and player interaction system need a massive overhaul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would agree that player conversations aren't working as intended. I've just had Arjen Robben ask to leave Bayern. I initially tried to persuade him to stay but he still wanted to go, so I agreed to sell him. The next mail I got was bid from Chelsea, which I negotiated and then accepted.

It gets to deadline day and Robben decides he's not joining Chelsea due to Wage, signing on fee and appearance bonus. I then get mass hysteria from my whole squad blaming me for not selling Robben to Chelsea, when it's Robben himself who has stopped the transfer. I hold a team meeting to discuss the issue, where the only options are to justify why I won't sell him! I agreed to sell him, it's not my fault he can't agree terms!

Thankfully I've got the editor so just edited out the player unhappiness, but that's a really poor mans work around.

For situations like this I think the promise should be considered fulfilled upon the acceptance of a bid rather than on the completion of the transfer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a joke when players demand to leave then demand you to pay them the wages that they won't be paid by the buying club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is a joke when players demand to leave then demand you to pay them the wages that they won't be paid by the buying club.

No, that's how some players deal with the prospect of being paid considerably less at their new club.

The key is that you shouldn't overpay players, or sign them on long deals unless you're sure of their quality for you, otherwise you'll be lumbered with them for as long as you made their contract. If you want rid of them, and they're on that big money, why would anyone else want to pay them that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The point he's making is that the player is trying to have his cake and eat it too.

I don't see why he shouldn't to be honest! He knows he can be a complete pain and cause some trouble if he stays so if he can engineer the situation to his advantage to get a good move on the same wages he should, personality permitting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, that's how some players deal with the prospect of being paid considerably less at their new club.

The key is that you shouldn't overpay players, or sign them on long deals unless you're sure of their quality for you, otherwise you'll be lumbered with them for as long as you made their contract. If you want rid of them, and they're on that big money, why would anyone else want to pay them that?

Nothing that can be done about that sometimes.

At United for example, offloading Ashley Young is a nightmare cos he's on 180k a week or something stupid like that.

Also, things can happen really quickly in football, a player might suddenly become available that changes the dynamic of the squad, if Messi became available and I bought him and demoted Rooney I'd understand Rooney getting pissed but I'd expect the rest of the squad to go 'tough luck, Messi's better than you, deal with it.'

In fact, that sort of thing does happen. There's that infamous bit where Roy Keane said to Dwight Yorke that he was '****ed' cos Ferguson wasn't retiring (he had fallen out of favour).

One of the things they need to do is better player-manager interactions. We are on the pitch and at training with these guys and kids yet sometimes a simple request and they have their handbags out. Like someone mentioned above, congratulate them on scoring or getting an international debut and they're more content to be confrontational than appreciative. I don't think players are such knobheads in reality. - In fact it used to be that if you had that attitude you weren't making it as a Pro footballer without a lot of difficulty (see Morrison and Balotelli for modern examples) so I fail to see why even the nicest most professional guy in the game would probably sleep with my wife if I had my back to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't see why he shouldn't to be honest! He knows he can be a complete pain and cause some trouble if he stays so if he can engineer the situation to his advantage to get a good move on the same wages he should, personality permitting.

Funny coz I hear people take wage cuts in real life when they want to leave.

If the guy want to leave because there's interest in him why am i still paying him wages?????

Its not like i wanted him gone and then if the deal breaks down I've messed up the the promise -_-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nothing that can be done about that sometimes.

At United for example, offloading Ashley Young is a nightmare cos he's on 180k a week or something stupid like that.

Young doesn't get paid that much and it isn't that hard to sell him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funny coz I hear people take wage cuts in real life when they want to leave.

If the guy want to leave because there's interest in him why am i still paying him wages?????

Its not like i wanted him gone and then if the deal breaks down I've messed up the the promise -_-

I agree some players would, but others wouldn't. And if on the whole you don't want him gone that's fine, keep him. But the player knows you have a choice between getting a transfer fee, paying some of his wages and getting rid of him or keeping him around, not getting a transfer fee and allowing him to be a disruptive influence - especially if the rest of your team have similarly poor personality attributes. He's taking a gamble that you're going to pick option one, and if you don't then at least he still has he overvalued contract to make up for not being able to move where he wants. Once you've signed him up on wages that are above his market value, he holds most of the cards in any negotiation between you for the length of the contract - if that happens to be long as well, you're in trouble if he decides to get stroppy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the player complains of the promise being broken, is one of the response options "I accepted a transfer offer from you but you weren't prepared to accept the terms" or similar?

I think most of the issues with player interaction in this game can be linked to inadequate and poorly worded responses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...