Sacked

[Harold_Barrington]

After successively guiding Man Utd to the title and league cup in my first season I've just been sacked for squad harmony issues, despite still being top of the league. All of this down to the fact I sold Nick Powell, is this a known issue or have I just got really unlucky?

[borobadger]

I think they have said they are going to tweak the player interactions in the winter update

[Some Guy!]

I think they have said they are going to tweak the player interactions in the winter update

They've actually admitted it's a problem now? They were suggesting that it was completely reasonable to be sacked for selling mediocre youth players last I saw.

[scott MUFC]

I sold players and was asked why by Rooney, ans he accepted the explanation, did you not get this option?

[brawla123]

After successively guiding Man Utd to the title and league cup in my first season I've just been sacked for squad harmony issues, despite still being top of the league. All of this down to the fact I sold Nick Powell, is this a known issue or have I just got really unlucky?

Had the same problem at United when I sold him. Rooney complained about it and then suddenly the rest of the squad too. What doesn't make sense is that players complain about things like this yet the player who was sold isn't even in their favoured personnel.

I sold players and was asked why by Rooney, ans he accepted the explanation, did you not get this option?

If you don't give the right explanation, it won't resolve the problem.

Whenever my team suddenly wants a meeting, I quickly save the game just in case I give the wrong answer.

[HUNT3R]

Why does he have to be in their favoured personnel for them to get upset about the club selling a hot prospect? They're worried more about the club than the actual player.

[brawla123]

But how would selling Powell affect the club?

[HUNT3R]

A club selling hot prospects? Hot prospects, meaning youngsters at the club who could play first team football in the future, being sold?

[brawla123]

Have players been known to get upset about this in real life?

[HUNT3R]

I'm sure someone like Rooney would question it IRL.

[CityAndColour]

A club selling hot prospects? Hot prospects, meaning youngsters at the club who could play first team football in the future, being sold?

To the point where he is sacked after winning the title?

It's a rubbish feature in its current state.

[DazRTaylor]

A club selling hot prospects? Hot prospects, meaning youngsters at the club who could play first team football in the future, being sold?

Oh come on mate, we had this discussion on another thread and you defended it. It ended with an SI employee joining the thread and agreeing it was a bug and asked for the save game.

This is almost identical. It is clearly not working as intended.

[Cougar2010]

To the point where he is sacked after winning the title?

It's a rubbish feature in its current state.

Its a complete non-issue if you manage your squad properly.

If you let it get to the state where you get sacked then you are seriously mis-managing off the field. I've said before I treat the players in game the same way I manage my staff IRL and I've never once had a major issue in the game. Sure you get an odd complaint from time to time but if you deal with it early it doesn't become a major squad issue.

Thats not to say a slight tweak from SI in the right direction would be a bad thing but really it doesn't take much to manage your squad effectively off the field.

[HUNT3R]

To the point where he is sacked after winning the title?

It's a rubbish feature in its current state.

And as you know, it will get tweaked, so I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

Anyway, it's not completely unreasonable. If he's alienated most of the squad, Rooney and other senior members included, the club will be in complete disarray next season and performances on the pitch would most likely suffer. The board could have taken that into consideration.

We will still see tweaks to this though.

[brawla123]

I think for something like this to lead to a manager getting sacked is an overreaction from the club. Even if the players didn't agree with it, it should never lead to a sacking especially when the manager won the league.

[HUNT3R]

I think for something like this to lead to a manager getting sacked is an overreaction from the club. Even if the players didn't agree with it, it should never lead to a sacking especially when the manager won the league.

Clubs overreact all the time. If the squad is in disarray and it starts affecting performances on the field, the club might wish they did sack the manager. It shouldn't happen at every club though and I'm not sure how much manager stats and rep affects this, but it should also play a part. We don't have that info from the OP.

[brawla123]

It's not poor management if you get sacked. It's probably just picking the wrong response in a meeting, I don't think that makes you a bad manager.

[Cougar2010]

It's not poor management if you get sacked. It's probably just picking the wrong response in a meeting, I don't think that makes you a bad manager.

Of course it is, managing isn't just about picking a tactic dropping players into it and playing a match.

[HUNT3R]

It's not poor management if you get sacked. It's probably just picking the wrong response in a meeting, I don't think that makes you a bad manager.

You seem to be looking at this in a very gamey way. You're not picking a random response.

You're the manager. You're supposed to manage the squad on the field and off. There are words attached to the button you press. Manage the player. Either be honest with him or tell him what he wants to hear and accept the consequences. Not everyone will be happy with what you say. That's just part of managing.

[TAV2]

Sir Alex let Pogba leave on a free!!! Now I understand his "Retirement"...

[Gandy]

Who did SAF get rid of in 2001 to be "forced" into retirement then?

[TAV2]

Alex Notman haha

[brawla123]

You seem to be looking at this in a very gamey way. You're not picking a random response.

You're the manager. You're supposed to manage the squad on the field and off. There are words attached to the button you press. Manage the player. Either be honest with him or tell him what he wants to hear and accept the consequences. Not everyone will be happy with what you say. That's just part of managing.

That's true.

I said it was bad management, not that he's a bad manager. He could be brilliant at every other aspect of the game for all I know, but when it comes to this, not so good.

Yeah, I misunderstood your post.

Of course it is, managing isn't just about picking a tactic dropping players into it and playing a match.

I never said it was about just tactics. It's just odd that the board doesn't at least give you some form of a warning. I mean, he won the league in his first season and I'm pretty sure the board was only expecting a Champions League place so they should trust his judgement.

[Cougar2010]

I never said it was about just tactics. It's just odd that the board doesn't at least give you some form of a warning. I mean, he won the league in his first season and I'm pretty sure the board was only expecting a Champions League place so they should trust his judgement.

Although I've never been in that situation I'm pretty sure you get plenty of warning - unhappy players, conversations going badly, low confidence in that area on the board confidence screen + perhaps other things as well.

[Smurf]

Look at Jose Mourinho at Chelsea, he did a pretty sweet job and he was sacked by Abramovich, why, because the chairman is eccentric.

Look at at Lee Clark at Huddersfield; Mark Hughes at Man City; Sean Dych, Watford; Ancelotti, Chelsea; Allardyce, Blackburn; Hughton, Newcastle; and lastly, Del Bosque at Real Mardrid.

Now, it's fairly common for Real Madrid to change managers even if they are being succesful, Del Bosque had won two La Liga titles, two Champions Leagues, a Spanish Supercup, a UEFA Supercup and the Intercontinental Cup.

Clubs will sack managers, even if they are being successful and winning titles.

[brawla123]

I doubt any of those guys got sacked for selling a hot prospect.

[brawla123]

It's much easier to replace a manager than a bunch of unhappy players. The way the board has to look at it is, the players have lost faith in the manager and depending on their personalities, they may well reflect that on the pitch. If these are your better players then the team is screwed and you will drop down the table.

On one side, they could trust the manager and risk losing a lot of money due to poor form...

On the other side, get rid of the manager and bring a new one in and only have that slight risk that the manager might not be as good.

Good point. But my question is why are the players losing faith in the manager to begin with? He just guided them to the league title when they were probably only expected to qualify for the CL. I agree it's easier to replace the manager but it just seems to be a silly reason considering what he's done.

[Smurf]

I doubt any of those guys got sacked for selling a hot prospect.

No, maybe not, I think it's already established that "selling a hot prospect and being sacked" is an overreaction by the board that is being looked at by SI.

I don't think it's the selling of the player that's the issue, I think it may be down to a few things

• Initially, when you took over did you state at interview stage that you wanted to give youth a chance?
  
  • If so it's a broken promise selling youth prospects.
    

  [*]Was the youth player promised a chance in the first team?

  • If so, a promise was broken to the player and other players lose confidence in you.
    

  [*]Was the youth player offered a contract and listed as backup or similar role?

  • If so, it's a broken promise that you were going to use them as backup, perhaps listing them as not needed by club then sell at a later stage, perhaps?
    

• What way did the manager interact with the player over their concerns?
  

I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

I'm just playing devils advocate here.

[tracdoor]

Solution: play FMC which doesn't have any of that player interaction rubbish

[brawla123]

Never thought about it that way, Eugene. Only the OP can let us know. If giving youth a chance was in the philosophies he agreed to then it makes sense why he lost the job.

[Neil Brock]

It sounds like the squad overreacted because they saw Powell as one of (if not THE) hottest prospect at the club and felt the manager was harming the club. This really needs investigating further ideally with examples from before you sell the player. Please raise it on our bugs forum here - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/451-Interaction-Conversations-Team-Meetings

Thanks.

[CityAndColour]

That's a new argument thrown into the mix, but a very interesting one as well.

Not really - the Del Bosque example gets thrown up in nearly every thread about a user getting sacked harshly/unfairly.

I'm in the camp that as long as you are doing well you should be immune from being sacked, as it is still a game and I don't think out of the ordinary real life examples should jeopardise what might be a really immersive save. Others take the view that if it has happened in real life then it should be possible in the game, which is fine as well.

I believe you should be able to lose your job over squad disharmony, but only if it's affecting performances on the pitch. From examples I've seen, the game doesn't take into account performance, so you can be 10 points clear at the top and still be sacked because 2-3 players are unhappy. That is wrong to me.

[scott MUFC]

I got questioned when I sold Henriquez, and gave the explanation I would get someone better in, it is probably to do with club philosophy.

[Torminator]

The response "I could not give him enough playing time, so it was in his best interest" always works. At least my players always seem to understand.

[sporadicsmiles]

Look at at Lee Clark at Huddersfield

He was sacked because we drew a million games during that unbeaten run - games we should have won - and it cost us the title. As weird as it sounds, he should have done better.

I think there are two points being discussed in the thread, and they need to be treated separately: Were the squad right to react to the selling of Powell the way they did, and should you be sacked if you lose the dressing room?

The first point, as Neil replied, makes sense. Powell is sidely regarded as the best prospect at Man Utd. I am also pretty sure you start with the 'bring youth players from the club' (or whatever it is called) promise. I am sure if you promise that and go back on it, people should be wondering what is going on. It is also clear the OP failed to handle the player interaction correctly. I made this mistake once in an early save and was sacked by Bolton whilst top of the Championship. After that, I learnt that if I make a promise to a player, or they have a concern then I will keep the promise and adress the concern.

For the second point, the answer is a resounding yes. If you lose the team, your days are numbered. Both in real life and in the game and pretty much in any profession you belong to. For the board, it is easier to remove the manager to appease the players than to replace all the unhappy players.

The key is to stop players getting unhappy in the first place.

[Äktsjon Männ]

The first point, as Neil replied, makes sense. Powell is sidely regarded as the best prospect at Man Utd.

Um, no he's not. He's had a handful of underwhelming appearances in a couple of seasons to go along with unsuccessful loan spells at various clubs and different coaches publicly questioning his attitude. He'll not get another contract offer from Man Utd. How he's rated in the game is another matter of course but it still does not make this feature any more sensible. First of all, it's random. It doesn't matter if it's Nick Powell, James Wilson or Joe Reservefiller, the sale of a youth player is just a trigger. It seems to depend on manager reputation whether it is triggered or not. Once it is it picks a random first team player to complain (if you save before the incident it'll be a different player each time). It only applies to youth players because apparently no one objects to selling influential first team members yet getting a fee for a random youth is a no no. The getting a fee part being key because if the same player is released then everyone's happy.

There's a decent idea behind the feature but the lack of context sensitivity and the predictable nature of it means it's poorly implemented and not worth it in its current state.

[Dagenham_Dave]

No-one in this game is sacked for selling a young player.

People are sacked due to how they manage the rest of the squad's reaction to the selling of a young player, and how much the harmony of the team is ruined to the point that the board cut their losses and replace the manager before it gets any worse.

There's a lot that goes on between the selling of the player and the sacking of the manager. It can be a minefield to navigate, and yes, there's still bits of it that defy logic at times (which needs worked on), but I'm willing to bet the OP could have avoided the sack with better squad management. As it is though, we're missing the middle part from his story, therefore we can't be sure exactly what's happened.

[brawla123]

The first point, as Neil replied, makes sense. Powell is sidely regarded as the best prospect at Man Utd.

It's only the media who make people think stuff like this. Of course he has a lot of potential but if he was as big a prospect as the media make out, he would have featured in the first team by now. Leicester haven't even been impressed with him this season (where he is on loan) because he doesn't put much effort into training.

I am also pretty sure you start with the 'bring youth players from the club' (or whatever it is called) promise. I am sure if you promise that and go back on it, people should be wondering what is going on. It is also clear the OP failed to handle the player interaction correctly. I made this mistake once in an early save and was sacked by Bolton whilst top of the Championship. After that, I learnt that if I make a promise to a player, or they have a concern then I will keep the promise and adress the concern.

I agree but the OP hasn't let us know if it's part of his agreed philosophy.

For the second point, the answer is a resounding yes. If you lose the team, your days are numbered. Both in real life and in the game and pretty much in any profession you belong to. For the board, it is easier to remove the manager to appease the players than to replace all the unhappy players.

The key is to stop players getting unhappy in the first place.

Morale has always been to fragile in this game. With these new features I think it makes it even more harder to manage.

[Harold_Barrington]

Immediately after selling him Rooney came to me to voice his concerns, I told him don't worry trust me, which he didn't like and which made made him (along with the vast majority of the squad) unhappy and wanting a transfer. I assumed if I carried on winning (which I did) morale would eventually recover and the squad would get over the issue. I then had a board meeting quite soon after this and I reassured them I would resolve the problems, other than that though there was never another opportunity to turn things around so I'd have to disagree with your notion that my bad squad management was at fault.

[Smurf]

Did you hold any team meetings or talk with Rooney again afterwards to resolve the outstanding issues?

You can hold team meetings and meet with players whenever you want.

Praise them in the media for good matches, and getting them on your side by giving them an individual talk after a good game to say how wonderful they are.

In real life, under Ferguson, Rooney would have a boot thrown at his head and he'd be on the first flight to Madrid.

[sirgiorgio]

He was sacked because we drew a million games during that unbeaten run - games we should have won - and it cost us the title. As weird as it sounds, he should have done better.

I think there are two points being discussed in the thread, and they need to be treated separately: Were the squad right to react to the selling of Powell the way they did, and should you be sacked if you lose the dressing room?

The first point, as Neil replied, makes sense. Powell is sidely regarded as the best prospect at Man Utd. I am also pretty sure you start with the 'bring youth players from the club' (or whatever it is called) promise. I am sure if you promise that and go back on it, people should be wondering what is going on. It is also clear the OP failed to handle the player interaction correctly. I made this mistake once in an early save and was sacked by Bolton whilst top of the Championship. After that, I learnt that if I make a promise to a player, or they have a concern then I will keep the promise and adress the concern.

For the second point, the answer is a resounding yes. If you lose the team, your days are numbered. Both in real life and in the game and pretty much in any profession you belong to. For the board, it is easier to remove the manager to appease the players than to replace all the unhappy players.

The key is to stop players getting unhappy in the first place.

The first point makes no sense. Even if you have the "give youth a chance" clause/promise, the PLAYERS have no say in the matter. It's between you and the BOARD. I would expect a board meeting, not a team meeting. Why would a player be interested in youth development? Is he a shareholder?

For the second point, the answer is a Yes, but... I can see managers being sacked because they lost the team. But during the season, with the team topping the league? Highly, highly unlikely. Maybe at the end of the season, regardless of the results... Yes, it can happen. Once again, it's between you and the board: they have a number of factors to consider when they judge your performances, and squad harmony is just one of them. Not even the most important, probably. I suppose they're much more interested in results and financial stability than in a couple of unhappy EMPLOYEES.

[jumbohotdog]

Immediately after selling him Rooney came to me to voice his concerns, I told him don't worry trust me, which he didn't like and which made made him (along with the vast majority of the squad) unhappy and wanting a transfer. I assumed if I carried on winning (which I did) morale would eventually recover and the squad would get over the issue. I then had a board meeting quite soon after this and I reassured them I would resolve the problems, other than that though there was never another opportunity to turn things around so I'd have to disagree with your notion that my bad squad management was at fault.

I think this statement was the start of your problems

[brawla123]

The first point makes no sense. Even if you have the "give youth a chance" clause/promise, the PLAYERS have no say in the matter. It's between you and the BOARD. I would expect a board meeting, not a team meeting. Why would a player be interested in youth development? Is he a shareholder?

For the second point, the answer is a Yes, but... I can see managers being sacked because they lost the team. But during the season, with the team topping the league? Highly, highly unlikely. Maybe at the end of the season, regardless of the results... Yes, it can happen. Once again, it's between you and the board: they have a number of factors to consider when they judge your performances, and squad harmony is just one of them. Not even the most important, probably. I suppose they're much more interested in results and financial stability than in a couple of unhappy EMPLOYEES.

Which shows players have too much power in this game.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Immediately after selling him Rooney came to me to voice his concerns, I told him don't worry trust me, which he didn't like and which made made him (along with the vast majority of the squad) unhappy and wanting a transfer. I assumed if I carried on winning (which I did) morale would eventually recover and the squad would get over the issue. I then had a board meeting quite soon after this and I reassured them I would resolve the problems, other than that though there was never another opportunity to turn things around so I'd have to disagree with your notion that my bad squad management was at fault.

Is this your first season in the game, and then by definition your first job? What is your manager profile/stats? Could well be that you're simply not respected due to a lack of experience and the players, given any opportunity won't be slow to tell you.

In addition to that, telling them not to worry and to just trust you with no experience behind you is a recipe for disaster. Should it be that harsh? That's maybe where the debate lies, but from what you've told us so far, perhaps there is more you could have done. Or it's simply happened because you don't have enough experience/respect for your players to take you seriously.

We still need more info from you here.

[Spurs08]

Immediately after selling him Rooney came to me to voice his concerns, I told him don't worry trust me, which he didn't like and which made made him (along with the vast majority of the squad) unhappy and wanting a transfer. I assumed if I carried on winning (which I did) morale would eventually recover and the squad would get over the issue. I then had a board meeting quite soon after this and I reassured them I would resolve the problems, other than that though there was never another opportunity to turn things around so I'd have to disagree with your notion that my bad squad management was at fault.

What was your reputation and previous footballing/managerial experience when you said this? I concur it's probably the root of the problem. A world-class reputation player, who also happens to be England Captain and VERY influential in the team, with a pretty bad attitude problem decided he didn't like you. You didn't deal with him well, then promised the board you'd fix it and failed too. Once you go around picking - and more importantly, losing - fights with assets worth hundreds of millions of pounds to the club that are so annoyed they'll probably look to leave on a Bosman to get away from you, you're future with the club is pretty much over. How long was there also between Rooney becoming unhappy and you losing your job?

[dieu]

Immediately after selling him Rooney came to me to voice his concerns, I told him don't worry trust me, which he didn't like and which made made him (along with the vast majority of the squad) unhappy and wanting a transfer. I assumed if I carried on winning (which I did) morale would eventually recover and the squad would get over the issue. I then had a board meeting quite soon after this and I reassured them I would resolve the problems, other than that though there was never another opportunity to turn things around so I'd have to disagree with your notion that my bad squad management was at fault.

And there is probably what went wrong. What did you do to fix the situation after you promised the board that you would fix it?

What I think happened is that you promised the board to fix the situation but you didn't. You did not get sacked for selling Nick Powell. Neither did you get sacked for making Rooney or your squad unhappy. You probably got sacked for promising something to the board and not fulfilling said promise.

Was the squad still unhappy when you got sacked?

[eriktous]

Are you saying he should have told the board he wasn't expecting to be able to resolve the problems?

[Harold_Barrington]

Is this your first season in the game, and then by definition your first job? What is your manager profile/stats? Could well be that you're simply not respected due to a lack of experience and the players, given any opportunity won't be slow to tell you.

In addition to that, telling them not to worry and to just trust you with no experience behind you is a recipe for disaster. Should it be that harsh? That's maybe where the debate lies, but from what you've told us so far, perhaps there is more you could have done. Or it's simply happened because you don't have enough experience/respect for your players to take you seriously.

We still need more info from you here.

My past experience was International footballer, so that doesn't come into it, and yes it was this was my first season. Is it known whether certain chairmen have itchier trigger fingers than others? This is what I think it came down to personally.

[dieu]

Are you saying he should have told the board he wasn't expecting to be able to resolve the problems?

Not at all.. I promise the board that I will fix situations like this all the time... The difference is that when I promise that I will fix it. I fix it...

It's no problem to make the promise he did. He did not get fired for that. He got fired for not following through on his promise.

Let's look at it from the boards side.

They have a manager that has alienated large parts of his squad. Including at least one of the star players. Ok. Results are still good, but how long will that last? The board tells the manager that they are concerned with the situation in which the manager replies "No worries, all will soon be peaches around here, because i am going to sort this out. AND THAT'S A PROMISE!"

Time goes and nothing changes. The squad is still pissed as h****, and the manager has done exactly nothing to correct the situation. Ok. Results are still good, but the manager has just showed that he cannot be trusted.

Result:

Head --> Chopping block --> Axe falls.

[CityAndColour]

He didn't "do nothing", he chose the "wrong" option in a chat. Doing nothing would be ignoring the player concerns and refusing to partake in said meetings.

Personally I don't think saying "trust me" is such a bad option, given he's just led them to a domestic double and is a former international footballer, but obviously most in here disagree.