TT&F IV: New Strategies and Theories for '07

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zeusbheld:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rbnrbn:

5 games winning streaks, manager of the month, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding...

Where did those successful sunday nights go where you'd turn on your computer, start up FM and morealess do what now is impossible, possible.

Is there a strategy guide out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding your last question, I'm confused as to what exactly you think this thread is.

To answer your previous question, it is more than possible to go on unbeaten runs, score lots of goals, get poor teams to the Premiership. It requires more thought and is more time-consuming than previously. Goals are harder to come by and clean sheets more difficult to achieve than in previous versions but with good tactical management you should see a >2.5/<0.8 split. I think that would be regarded as satisfactory by most. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wwfan,

your frameworks are immensely useful.

by learning from them, and adapting tactics to the players i have and the situations i face, i'm going on unbeaten runs, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding, getting back to back promotions, i'm more popular socially,just got a rise in pay, and upgraded my house and girlfriend.

just wanna say... thanks. keep up the good work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proof that FM and real life are not mutually exclusive!

[Guest]

How well does your theories adapt to conference teams? I'm playing with Farnborough in ECS. But I can't get it to come together. I get my a** kicked on a regular basis, not only by teams in my conference, but by teams who's not even in a league. I've tried diffrent approaches based on your new theroies, but my result is allways the same...way down in the leaguetable.

[daleuk8]

i think alot of this is around closing down. as i was getting fed up with things. i decided to give things a breake for a few days. When i got back to things, i loaded up wwfans away set and home set. on one set i've the back 4 closing down heavily. on the other the back 4 close down lightly. but the midfield close down alot. since doing this i have been performing really well. not won every game, but played well

[crazy gra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

I myself try for at least 2.5/0.5, but maybe my standards are too high </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I were managing a top side I'd agree, but for my 100-1 outsiders, 2.5 - 0.8 is more than satisfactory.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was referring to my Man Utd game. However, just started a Wycombe game and I definitely can't expect those levels. I'd have to settle for something like 1.5/1.

Slightly off the point, but have you played as Wycombe yet? (The thread in GPTG is booming!)

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

I myself try for at least 2.5/0.5, but maybe my standards are too high </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I were managing a top side I'd agree, but for my 100-1 outsiders, 2.5 - 0.8 is more than satisfactory.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was referring to my Man Utd game. However, just started a Wycombe game and I definitely can't expect those levels. I'd have to settle for something like 1.5/1.

Slightly off the point, but have you played as Wycombe yet? (The thread in GPTG is booming!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My post 7.02 career game is Wycombe. Now in my fourth season.

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by patriik_zaarr:

How well does your theories adapt to conference teams? I'm playing with Farnborough in ECS. But I can't get it to come together. I get my a** kicked on a regular basis, not only by teams in my conference, but by teams who's not even in a league. I've tried diffrent approaches based on your new theroies, but my result is allways the same...way down in the leaguetable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I designed it for a Conference North side. The Home and Away frameworks should get you well up the table. If you can pick up a quality TM it will help especially related to the settings described in the TTF: TArget Man thread.

[Guest MazinGol]

wwfan: Away games are total pain for me. My tactic should work against average / poor teams, but it doesn't. I am really struggling to win the league with this tactic. Home form was this season 16 wins and 2 unlucky draws. Away I have lost 6 and played 5 draws.

The problem is that when I watch a bit full match, my midfield loses the ball all the time. Seems like I would do better playing 9 against 11 without my 2 MC's alltogether.

Haven't yet solved the problem and I am frankly running out of ideas. Short passing without counter attack is sacred for me, so I don't want to go back to fast tempo direct game.

---

In home games my FC stays quite deep. He is constantly at the edge of the box and bit deeper. My midfielders can play triangle passing with him while my wingers cut inside. Having two MC's with high creativity and passing and fullbacks with decent crossing makes even the most defensive AI tactics crack under pressure.

[Guest MazinGol]

A thing I forgot to mention. I do change my away tactics a bit. I try to make it bit more defensive taking off farrows from full backs, dropping defensive line, dropping individual mentalities (a bit), but nothing minor seems to work.

[wwfan]

I'll make a suggestion which may or may not be useful.

Firstly, I think low mixed would be better for the FBs and MCs in the away formation so they are more likely to hit defence breaking direct balls into the space opposing FBs leave. This shouldn't disrupt your overall short-passing philosophy too much but will add some variety in terms of how you construct attacks away from home. Personally, I would counter, but as you are avidly against it I would try the following.

Against all sides: Lower MCs mentality to 10-12. The rest of the team should be OK. Time-wasting 10. Mixed width, tempo (can go narrower with your passing style, wider would be risky).

Against top sides: Lower d-line to 5-6, no FWRs for FBs or wingers. Wingers and FC high CD, central midfield link CD to d-line, low CD for defenders. Not sure of best settings for the DMC in terms of closing down and experimentation is required.

Against mid-level sides: D-line to 8-9. No FWRs for FBs, mixed for wingers. Central midfield CD linked to d-line, high for wingers and FC, low for defenders.

Against poor sides: D-line to 11-12. Mixed FWRs for FBs, high for wingers. Central midfield and FB Cd linked to d-line, as before for rest of team.

I would man-tight mark with all players except FC (loose-zonal)and DMC (tight-zonal). I would also heavy tackle with everyone except FCs and wingers (light) and DCS (normal).

When playing the match I would check on the passing percentage and possession stats from 10 mins in with regularity. If there is a mjor discrepancy in favour of the AI you have picked the wrong away tactic and should change to another version. If it is close or in your favour you will have a fighting chance of getting a result. The 'against top-sides' version works wonders against the AI 4-2-4.

If you decide to give this a go please keep me informed. It is similar to my setup (but shorter passing and no counter attack) and I would be interested to hear if you can get it working. I tend to lose no more than 6 away matches a season in a 46 match division.

[keffo]

Great work, will there be any .tac-files avail like last time you did this?

Once again, amazing work!

[Loversleaper]

I've managed to get the match stats looking very good. I earlier explained that I had been testing some different passing settings and I feel the following settings get best results:

Team passing: (7) Tempo: (7) and Width: (7).

All players on team passing except: Goal Keeper (11) and Wings (10).

I've used this throughout the five frameworks I explained at the top of this page. Passing percentage always stays around the 70% mark. Small changes makes incredible differences....

[keffo]

Not to sure, but http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/4422073592

are the old ones? Right?

[Justified]

wwfan I have a question for you. I'm playin with a 4-3-3 formation at the moment (back four, DMC, 2 MC's, AML/R and a FC). With the RoO Framework you have a MC(a) and MC(d) whereas I am currently playing with 2 MC's and a DMC and I am struggling a bit to find the right combination for passing/CD. atm I have set the DMC's passing one notch higher then the MC's and I have tried matching the DMC's CD to the wingers (around 17) and also matched it to the MC's but I don't feel I get full potential out of the system.

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justified:

wwfan I have a question for you. I'm playin with a 4-3-3 formation at the moment (back four, DMC, 2 MC's, AML/R and a FC). With the RoO Framework you have a MC(a) and MC(d) whereas I am currently playing with 2 MC's and a DMC and I am struggling a bit to find the right combination for passing/CD. atm I have set the DMC's passing one notch higher then the MC's and I have tried matching the DMC's CD to the wingers (around 17) and also matched it to the MC's but I don't feel I get full potential out of the system. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Id have the DMC's cd a little lower than the wingers, as you don't want him to close down too early. Unless you do then ignore me This way I find my DMC closes down when someone comes past halfway and not before.

As for the passing, it depends on what hes good at. 1 of my reserve DMC's is good at passing and has a good all round stats, due to this I give him a licence to spread play about a bit more. Where as my other DMC is quite poor at passing but is a lot better at breaking up play. So I set him up to break up play only. When he has possession of the ball I want him to distribute it short to the wingers only. So I keep him set relatively short.

Not sure if its any use to you though

[Wayne\'o]

great read there m8, you should be good on the gripton factor, how on earth did you just come up with all these ideas.. im yet to test this out on my game

[Wayne\'o]

1st attempt at using the home frame work, got my arse kicked 3-1 at home to WBA who were favorutes never the less, but i got totally hammerd all game. out passed. out sprinted you name it,

Not so sure why this is the case.

[Justified]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wayne'o:

1st attempt at using the home frame work, got my arse kicked 3-1 at home to WBA who were favorutes never the less, but i got totally hammerd all game. out passed. out sprinted you name it,

Not so sure why this is the case. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

tbh mate he won't be able to help you unless you tell him what team you were. WBA are one of the better teams in the Championship and maybe you should of used a more defensive framework to try and beat them.

[Crazy_T]

wwfan,

Ok I wondered if you could help with a creative freedom issue. Now, I know that the players with high ratings for decisions,passing and creativity should be give high CF (so I would give them the first notch of 'much' usually). However, for everyone else that just have average decisions,passing etc, I don't really know what CF to give them.

1. How many players should I have on 'much' CF in a tactic?

2. For everyone else should I just have them on normal (10) or should they be put on 'little' (around 6)?

3. What CF should the keeper have?

Thanks any help will be appreciated.

[Justified]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I have no players with high CF in my tactic. I think you should just view it as a more positional preference. So if you do play an AMC in your tactic then naturally you'd give him more CF. If he is very creative you should give him much, if not that good then give him a high normal.

Remember the more CF you give the more you loosen the leish so if he isn't a good player he'll loose you possesion too many times.

[Crazy_T]

Ok should I give the majority little CF or normal CF?

Obviously the good ones will get high normal/much.

[Justified]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crazy_T:

Ok should I give the majority little CF or normal CF?

Obviously the good ones will get high normal/much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would say keep GK and DC's on low as you don't want them wasting possesion. If you have fullbacks on direct passing I would say give them a low normal CF, if you're asking them to pass short then keep them low as well. Wingers I would say just over normal but high if you have Robben type of wingers who you know will do good on high CF and strikers I would say Rooney types on high normal and big guys on low normal.

[Crazy_T]

Ok another thing I need help with is my fullbacks - who I cannot set up effectively for some reason. I usually play either a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1 and I prefer to have FB's getting forward and involved. However, I always concede goals from crosses and balls in behind the FB's.

Now I have tried out a few things. I had them close down often around 12-14 but found out they go too far up and often get beat by oppo wingers and Fb's. I've treid fwr runs rare and mixed. Also, i've tried lower closing down so that they stay back and more in line wth the centre backs.

What do you suggest for full backs setting and how do you stop them letting balls go in behind them all the time?

Thanks

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crazy_T:

Ok another thing I need help with is my fullbacks - who I cannot set up effectively for some reason. I usually play either a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1 and I prefer to have FB's getting forward and involved. However, I always concede goals from crosses and balls in behind the FB's.

Now I have tried out a few things. I had them close down often around 12-14 but found out they go too far up and often get beat by oppo wingers and Fb's. I've treid fwr runs rare and mixed. Also, i've tried lower closing down so that they stay back and more in line wth the centre backs.

What do you suggest for full backs setting and how do you stop them letting balls go in behind them all the time?

Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two options, depending on how many risks you want to take.

1: Widen formation, FWRs mixed, normal tempo

2: Widen formation, FWRs often, quickish tempo

The first is best for a possession-centric approach in which you want the FBs to segue between attack and defence. The second is quite aggressive and should be employed when trying to break down a massed, defence. For the second, high CD for the opposition's front men is also very useful.

If balls are getting behind the FBs with regularity you are probably using too aggressive a tactic. Switch to a tighter system with FBs on no FWRS and rely on counter-attacks.

[SGartz]

I have downloaded your tactics wwfan and thought I'd give them a try. The one's I am using are the

TTF RoO 4-4-2 Set groups of tactics.

Results so far:-

1-0 - home loss

1-2 - away loss

1-0 - home loss

6-1 - home win (league cup V's weak team)

2-0 - away loss

0-0 - home draw

I am sat nicely at the bottom of the Championship with Leeds, maybe this is realistic :-)

I think in FM what works for one, maybe does not work for another. I will keep testing though.

[wwfan]

Sorry to hear you are struggling. Please remember the instructions are not cast in stone and individual instructions should be rethought depending on your specific player attributes.

A couple of other pointers, narrow and slow down tempo against the better teams away. Widen and increase against teams you expect to beat and increase FWRs to mixed for the FBs.

[crazy gra]

Slower tempo against better teams, faster tempo against worse teams? I do that the other way around

[Riz-Djibrilliant-Kaka]

i ony read the 1st page but it was definitely an interesting and sense-making one.

i'm implementing your advice but not using the tactics set. as i read another thread named the unbeatean combination of cleon and wwfan, i'm also using what he does.

so far so good, pre-season friendly against Juventus i totally took them apart.

what troubles me tho. Based on your theory, width and tempo should be based around your CM. well mine is Steven Gerrard and it's obvious that he has the skill to pass. And you also said that a passing of around 10 is very Premiership.

This means that the width and tempo should be around the middle.....10-12.

However, being a lifelong fan of Liverpool and watching them play. Usually at home they play a short, slow passing game and a very wide formation.

I implemented this in a previous game with ajax and it worked wonders. However, i was using a 4-3-3 then.

Can a slow-short-wide formation be used with your theory or is that not possible?

I'm currently using your passing theories but my tempo is on the first notch of slow and my width is on the first notch of wide.

Cheers.

[Justified]

IMO Riz, you can unlink all things but you should as a base usually link all three together. I guess you could say it depends on formation and player calibre. You said yourself you were Liverpool and was playing a 4-3-3. IMO you did right in playing wide because a) the 4-3-3 is a formation which encourages wing play so it would make more sense to play wide and get the ball down the flanks b) the class of Liverpool allows you to unlink the "base".

I think you should always link tempo to passing as it makes most sense however if you have a team with great teamwork, great understanding and good passing ability you can use quick and short. However if you're looking for a possesion tactic you should have short/slow.

Hope this helps?

[wwfan]

The width-passing-tempo mix is a guideline, not a rule. It enables good teams to perform reasonably well without losing defensive stability and poor teams to defend without compromising too much attacking potency. I am breaking the rules right, left and centre in terms of passing, width and tempo in order to get the tem playing the way I want to. Basically, if it works go for it.

[Riz-Djibrilliant-Kaka]

hmm... thx for the answers. I'll play around with it for a bit and see what happens.

i used the guide you provided for the passing and in my first competitive game against fenerbache the post-match news was i taught them a footballing lesson. so...so far so good!

[daleuk8]

i'm getting fed up with this game. wwfan can you help? i'm using your frame works away-att and home. i've adjusted them to make 6 frame works, 3 home 3 away. i've tried doing it so i've got a more attacking one, cautious one and possestion one. I'm trying to judge each game by the odds but i've got no consistancy

[Millie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daleuk7:

i'm getting fed up with this game. wwfan can you help? i'm using your frame works away-att and home. i've adjusted them to make 6 frame works, 3 home 3 away. i've tried doing it so i've got a more attacking one, cautious one and possestion one. I'm trying to judge each game by the odds but i've got no consistancy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is the menatlity range of each? And who are you playing with?

You shouldn't need, really, more than one home framework if you're a top team for most games. I have used a high framework quite successfully with a number of teams at home, only hiking my team mentality to all-out-attack if it's getting towards the end of the game and I can't break down the opposition. Away from home takes a little more tweaking.

My advice would be to download the wwfan sets and also take a look at The next Diaby's and GarryWHUFC's tactics and see how they've set things up. If they have settings which are wildly different from your own, you may want to ask why and see if you think you need to change them.

[daleuk8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> originally posted by Millie

What is the menatlity range of each? And who are you playing with?

You shouldn't need, really, more than one home framework if you're a top team for most games. I have used a high framework quite successfully with a number of teams at home, only hiking my team mentality to all-out-attack if it's getting towards the end of the game and I can't break down the opposition. Away from home takes a little more tweaking.

My advice would be to download the wwfan sets and also take a look at The next Diaby's and GarryWHUFC's tactics and see how they've set things up. If they have settings which are wildly different from your own, you may want to ask why and see if you think you need to change them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks..I think i'm moaning to quickly. i read the AI thread by wwfan last night again. tried going by that a bit more..lost 4-0 with swindon but thats because i just couldn't get it wright. but it worked with my everton side with my match againts villa..i won 3-0

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daleuk7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> originally posted by Millie

What is the menatlity range of each? And who are you playing with?

You shouldn't need, really, more than one home framework if you're a top team for most games. I have used a high framework quite successfully with a number of teams at home, only hiking my team mentality to all-out-attack if it's getting towards the end of the game and I can't break down the opposition. Away from home takes a little more tweaking.

My advice would be to download the wwfan sets and also take a look at The next Diaby's and GarryWHUFC's tactics and see how they've set things up. If they have settings which are wildly different from your own, you may want to ask why and see if you think you need to change them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks..I think i'm moaning to quickly. i read the AI thread by wwfan last night again. tried going by that a bit more..lost 4-0 with swindon but thats because i just couldn't get it wright. but it worked with my everton side with my match againts villa..i won 3-0 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As Millie says, it is difficult to give across the board advice, especially if you have more than one game on the go. A rule of thumb for me is using the mid-range Home tactic outside of the top division against the short-farrowed 4-4-2s and tweak it wider, faster with FBS going forward (FWRs) if you are struggling to break teams down. Once you are a top team you should be doing that from the start. Away is a lot more tricky and is easy to get wrong. Follow a 'don't concede' strategy and try to win it in the last 20 mins. A good half-time team talk and an attacking strategy can turn defeats into draws and draws into wins.

[Pim1984]

I had a good read, and set up some tactics (based on the home, away, attaway and hypothetical theory) very much inspired by this thread. I took the frameworks and set the instructions mostly according to this thread as well. Then I put my own input into it with things like creative freedom, corner instructions etc. I started a career with Arsenal and already I can see that my team plays very decent and nearly doesn't get any goals against:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r260/Pim8984/Arsenal1.jpg

Before I struggled and didn't know why, but now I have gained more insight. I win my games and am getting to grips with this game. I hope it stays this way, but surely it seems to go very well so far.

If the players have a bad day, or the oppision is so good that they yse the space behind my defence too much when using the home framework, I switch to the attacking away framework which seems to counter this. Then if I have a good lead, or there's not much time left and I want to hold on to the scoreline then I switch to the away framework sometimes.

On the other hand. I played 1-1 against Spartak Moscow in the CL away from home, after 80 minutes, and took a risk by using the home framework. I scored within a minute and then went back to the attacking away framework and the game ended 3-1.

This shows you can easily switch the tactics at the right moments and it seems that way you win your games and stay balanced, in form and consistent.

Anyway, thx for your info WWFan. Much appreciated.

[Justified]

I hadn't tried these frameworks before as I was busy building my own tactics but decided to give it a go with Toulouse in France. Now I personally don't know if they're a good team in France as my perception is that the top teams are obviously Lyon and then Monaco, Bordeaux, PSG and Lille. However with these frameowkrs I won the league hands down in the first season after a few tweaks here and there. First off I took away the swap position as I personally don't like it. My most attacking player should always be most attacking imo. Also the cross aim was on far post on the left sided players which I found a bit odd as they then always try to find the runs of the right winger at the far post who never wins headers.

Also I tested a few games with the MC(d) with a diagonal barrow to DMC and it actually works quite well against the AI 4-4-2 as it goes for the same forward run split as this tactic.

Second season now and enjoying it really. Managed to qualify top of the Champions League group ahead of holders Chelsea after getting a draw at the Bridge and now I am also attrackting better players. I managed to get Frutos from Anderlecht for about £2m so if anyone is looking for a good cheap target man for this tactic, try him, absolute gold.

Anyways it's been fun but back to my old training board to improve my tactics.

[wwfan]

It's always nice when a couple of long-term users justify (ha) your tactics. It seems both of you do what the complainers rarely seem to understand:

A: change between systems during the match based on an educated calculation of the situation

B: adjust the frameworks to suit your team and your preferred playing style

Too many people think a carbon copy inflexible following of these frameworks and theorems will guarantee instant success. It still takes careful management of players and situations and a constant reevaluation of the systems so you can logically adjust them when things stop working. For example, I now reduce RWB in ultra heavy conditions to a bare minimum (FCa mixed, wingers mixed/rarely depending on the dribbling/tackling match up with the marking FB)as I began to realise my front men lost the ball too easily when they ran with it. Having previously hated the heavy pitch and being happy with a draw, I now own teams on it! A simple adjustment of the framework based on match engine observation that has reaped dividends. It's a continuous process.

@ Justified: I would agree with you relating to the swap player in midifeld, as I only use it if I have two players who can do both jobs. If I had a creative weakling and a defensive hardman, I wouldn't use it, but if I had two box to box midfielders with slightly variable stats (one can dribble, one can pass, one has flair, one creativity) I think it helps.

Regarding the left winger, I thought he crossed to mixed and the right winger to far post? I must have messed up a setting somewhere.

[Justified]

Ah yes, that was another thing I noticed, the FC(d) had RWB mixed which I found a bit odd so i turned that off seeing as I had Frutos (striker from Anderlecht for those that do not know) there and he would not benefit from trying to take his man on instead of holding onto the ball.

I believe in some framworks I saw the DMC have it as well so I turned that off too seeing as I took the swap positions off.

Also another thing I noticed in some of the framworks was that you unlinked the passing from the MC(a) to a shorter passing. It didn't make it less successful tbh but I just thought it being weird you went against your own theorem

Also playing narrow away and wider at home helps as I don't see width as a must to link with tempo and passing and the Champions League final i played earlier today with debutants Toulouse against Inter reaped rewards as we won 2-1

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justified:

Ah yes, that was another thing I noticed, the FC(d) had RWB mixed which I found a bit odd so i turned that off seeing as I had Frutos (striker from Anderlecht for those that do not know) there and he would not benefit from trying to take his man on instead of holding onto the ball.

I believe in some framworks I saw the DMC have it as well so I turned that off too seeing as I took the swap positions off.

Also another thing I noticed in some of the framworks was that you unlinked the passing from the MC(a) to a shorter passing. It didn't make it less successful tbh but I just thought it being weird you went against your own theorem

Also playing narrow away and wider at home helps as I don't see width as a must to link with tempo and passing and the Champions League final i played earlier today with debutants Toulouse against Inter reaped rewards as we won 2-1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always break my own theorems once I am happy with the basics. TT&F has always been, in my mind, a guide to get people au fait with a working system that they can then build upon/tweak to design a system that can produce the type of play that they want. With a few logical tweaks the frameworks can become more creative, more defensive, more aggressive, depending on preference. Waht they do pretty much guarantee is a solid system that doesn't compromise too much on attacking potency or defensive solidity. Once you are playing at a certain level you can adjust these depending on your team's quality. If you are favourites then widen, add free roles and CF. If you are really up against it do the opposite.

I actually don't think I have unlinked the passing in the ones you are using, rather I have width, tempo as equal to the MCa/d pasing (or thereabouts, I think there was one notch difference between them which was my error) but have team passing short and linked to the front four. That was just an easier way of setting it up.

As for the RWB for the TM, my original TM was big and quick, so having RWB allowed him to go for goal if he was past the d-line. I would happily reduce it if he were slower and had poor dribbling.

Well done on winning the CL.

[crazy gra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Also playing narrow away and wider at home helps as I don't see width as a must to link with tempo and passing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I've got it wrong all this time, but that's why I feel it would help (even us veterans) to have more explanations in the manual about settings such as width.

[Justified]

Sorry if I sound ignorant but I find Width quite self explanatory. Obviously the wider you go the more space you create because your strecthing the opposition but obviously a bad pass and whoops you're totally open for a counter. Going too narrow might shore things up at the back centrally (remember Middlesbrough against United when they struggled to score, that's narrow!) however too narrow and they'll bomb crosses in left right and center. However if you have tall defenders/midfielders you'll most likely avoid conceeding.

[crazy gra]

I'd say it's arrogance, not ignorance

What I mean is that, from what I've seen, width only comes into effect when you have the ball. Why should that be? It's the reason I link it to passing, not to do with how defensive I want to be. In my defensive away tactic I have passing and width at 15 IIRR, but this does well defensively despite that.

[Justified]

Yeah sorry, my head doesn't seem to be screwed on today as I've noticed I'm making a lot of mistakes today. Well I guess the only explanation for that is that maybe when your are losing the ball your loosing it in the defensive third which gives your players time to regroup ? I'm not saying it means you play wide in defence it just takes players longer to get narrower after you've lost the ball hence a straight ball down the middle to a speedy striker could see you concede.

[crazy gra]

Aye, I realise that could be an effect, but matching the width to the passing means the passes should be more accurate meaning I lose the ball less often

[meatloafster]

Does anyone ever notice that when the AI throws in the proverbial wrench (4-2-4) during late-game situations, it seems as if his team suddenly moves to a zone defense.

In my mind, I think that's why the 4-2-4 is suddenly deadly. The formation's wide, short passes everywhere, and the men don't break out of formation much (except when creating those sudden goals)

If I'm correct on this, perhaps there's a more effective way of breaking the AI's wide zone defense other than "stopping the bus"?

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by meatloafster:

Does anyone ever notice that when the AI throws in the proverbial wrench (4-2-4) during late-game situations, it seems as if his team suddenly moves to a zone defense.

In my mind, I think that's why the 4-2-4 is suddenly deadly. The formation's wide, short passes everywhere, and the men don't break out of formation much (except when creating those sudden goals)

If I'm correct on this, perhaps there's a more effective way of breaking the AI's wide zone defense other than "stopping the bus"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't noticed but it may well do that. I still think the AI is fundamentally weak down ther flanks when it goes 4-4-2 and can easily be exposed.

My current experiments, curtailed due to a Mac issue that may require major surgery, was to reduce FWRS and TTB to a minimum (MCa only trying TTBs), narrow the formation, sarrow the FCs and focus down flanks. Only tried it for one game and it seemed effective (didn't score but nor did I concede). If anyone wishes to try it please report back.

[meatloafster]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by meatloafster:

Does anyone ever notice that when the AI throws in the proverbial wrench (4-2-4) during late-game situations, it seems as if his team suddenly moves to a zone defense.

In my mind, I think that's why the 4-2-4 is suddenly deadly. The formation's wide, short passes everywhere, and the men don't break out of formation much (except when creating those sudden goals)

If I'm correct on this, perhaps there's a more effective way of breaking the AI's wide zone defense other than "stopping the bus"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't noticed but it may well do that. I still think the AI is fundamentally weak down ther flanks when it goes 4-4-2 and can easily be exposed.

My current experiments, curtailed due to a Mac issue that may require major surgery, was to reduce FWRS and TTB to a minimum (MCa only trying TTBs), narrow the formation, sarrow the FCs and focus down flanks. Only tried it for one game and it seemed effective (didn't score but nor did I concede). If anyone wishes to try it please report back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In most of my matches, I noticed that the AI drops man coverage on the two FC's when they hit the 4-2-4. They're seemingly able to control the midfield despite having only two MC's, they bog down the passing and then quickly chuck it out through a series of short passes to the forwards.

I'm experimenting on maybe increasing creative freedom (or even giving free-roles) for my wings and my fc's to create some unpredictable runs that the AI won't be able to bog midway through the field when they hit the 4-2-4.

[socks]

Excellent contribution wwfan and wonderfuly presented. Im looking forward to applying these theories.

Thanks for taking the time to put in this work.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zeusbheld:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rbnrbn:

5 games winning streaks, manager of the month, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding...

Where did those successful sunday nights go where you'd turn on your computer, start up FM and morealess do what now is impossible, possible.

Is there a strategy guide out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding your last question, I'm confused as to what exactly you think this thread is.

To answer your previous question, it is more than possible to go on unbeaten runs, score lots of goals, get poor teams to the Premiership. It requires more thought and is more time-consuming than previously. Goals are harder to come by and clean sheets more difficult to achieve than in previous versions but with good tactical management you should see a >2.5/<0.8 split. I think that would be regarded as satisfactory by most. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wwfan,

your frameworks are immensely useful.

by learning from them, and adapting tactics to the players i have and the situations i face, i'm going on unbeaten runs, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding, getting back to back promotions, i'm more popular socially,just got a rise in pay, and upgraded my house and girlfriend.

just wanna say... thanks. keep up the good work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proof that FM and real life are not mutually exclusive! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it's a little known fact that chicks dig you when you win at FM2k7. i'm surprised that it's not in more "how to meet women" self-help books actually.

[der]

I just hate this game