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Why so hard to get rid of unwanted players - MUST READ THREAD

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I could sell a 1 legged donkey on FM and have been told off in another thread for selling too many players ;)

I do run the game with a 70k+ player DB with all the top European Leagues playable (top division only) and then my league (all divisions) dependent on where I start. So maybe that has a bearing on it all idk

The transfer market is my favorite part of the game, so any dramatic changes to make it stricter/harder would probably ruin my experience. What I like is the option is there to play it how you choose and not be forced down a route.

i appreciate im probably late to the party on this thread, but still, i have saves where I have shifted a player earning 600k per week, who has been sat in my reserves for 4 years doing nothing... the AI do take on players, just have a little patience sometmes.

With a good setup, I find it harder not to sell my players when rising through the leagues, though I find it's definitely about timing it right with promotions, and making sure players who might be harder to shift get game time. I have strong wage controls, tbh, so their lower demands makes it easier to shift them. But also harder to keep.

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Yeah, but like I said pick a super club, play with superstars for half a dozen seasons and watch the game work like a charm, try it any other way and then it might not.

With Bari, I sold all but 2 players in one off-season. I think 6 left out of contract and i sold 14-15 players. Some were originals from Serie B (this was end of the 2nd season). Some I had just signed the season before... some had been sat in the stiffs for 2 years.

I just select all of those I want rid of, offer them out as per the games default setting and generally get bids. Those who dont, I ask them to speak to clubs, give it a couple of days and offer them out again.

I suppose each game is different, but I dont think there is any underlying problem with being able to sell players.

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I'm an LLM & have no issue, most of the time I'm at a level where there's no money but when I do get a decent player there is interest in them from the bigger clubs who will at times look to force my hand with a decent offer & as I move up to higher levels I've yet to have any problems with my better players not being signed by bigger clubs or being unable to find buyers for my unwanted players who will have a value to other clubs.

One tip I've found useful is when you are unable to find a buyer for an unwanted player open up the make offer page for a player at clubs in a division that you think your player is likely capable of playing at, when you do this if the club are looking to sign a player there is a box that tells you what positions they are looking for. From there I can see what clubs have a need for the player I'm selling, also worth getting a team report to make a judgement on whether your player is better than what they have then I check the club & league transfer history to see what sort of money is being spent at that level & from there I can get an idea about what value the player is likely to fetch.

As for your experience there might be something you're doing to make your players less appealing to a potential club, you're doing something tactically that is getting level of performance out of your players that is significantly above their perceived ability & the form isn't enough for AI clubs to overlook that lower perceived ability or you're overpaying your players for the level that can otherwise play at. Those are just guesses, the only way to possibly make a better assessment is if it was my save & even then it would be a an assessment based on experience as only SI have access to additional tools that can tell them why your players are not generating the level of transfer interest that you want to see or if your expectations are unrealistic.

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While managing in lower league putting players on transfer listed will attract no interest from any club at all, I have to offer the player to clubs and the funny thing is I have to offer $0 or lets say not a single cent.. if not, no interest. This needs an improvement to be honest.

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Lower league clubs are pretty restricted due to a lack of funds therefore they're already looking at free agents who will likely have lower value contract demands than a player who is already contracted to a club.

Take a look at real life lower league transfers to see how many direct club to club transfer there are in real life.

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I also dont think the only way to get rid of a player should be to offer him for free, or even offer him at all. Why does the AI not spot that a player is worth buying anymore? Older FMs star players, players out of favour, good performers, good potential attracted AI clubs, now it seems unless you force a player out the door he aint going anywhere, and even then he wont go.

Ive gone from Van South to the championship, just missed out on the prem in the playoffs. I'm no longer a LLM, 11 seasons and basically zero of my players who have proven at least at some stages in their career to be playing at a lower level than they should attract interest, so when it gets to the point the club out grow these players, they no longer can play at the level we are at and are now unhappy and want to leave they got even less chance of going anywhere. If nobody wanted them when they were too good for me and the only way is up, they certainly arent going anywhere when their only option is down and theres even more reasons they cant leave.

Alot of these players have followed me up the leagues, so basically every kind of situation is covered, far too good for me at one point with a potential to play much higher, maybe not quite as good enough the higher I go. They perform well because they are too good for me many seasons, but eventually the club gets too big for them, the swing has no effect. Its part of the reason I keep the players up to that point, cos at no stage inbetween did they attract any interest. Obviously performances have no influence what so ever. But they still at some points these players are too good for me, some become not good enough, as the smallest club in the league on the lowest wages in the league, the options should be pretty big.

They are still on very low wages both ways. I over take clubs in lower leagues that are bigger than me, so the options for these players should be high. Low wages at low club, performing well, with many clubs below, above and everywhere that could be an option.

At some points these players have potential to play higher. Eventually the club out grow them to the point they can only go lower. I see both situations but none makes a difference. These players are unwanted, have been since the day they were generated which must be how I signed them with no competition in the first place. These players must have hidden stats that the AI have no interest in,

The amount of times you have to rebuild your squad when you try to rise through the leagues, thats another thing, only once in 11 years has a player I tried to sign not come to me, all the rest were me being the only person interested, the AI didnt see what I saw in them. I dont want a cheap mechanic like possibly it may have been in previous years where it seemed the AI suddenly come flying in with bids just cos you have, and otherwise had zero interest but sometimes it feels like I'm the only team in the world. Thats never used to happen.

My players are on far less wages than the players in teams around them, they could earn more in the league below, obviously too good for the club, young english players, they have never attracted interest. On previous FMs I'd be fuming that my best players are constantly being poached, worried about minimum release clauses, on the recent FMs, this being the worst one cos at least they poached them when there contracts ran out. I dont even care about release clauses cos the AI wont get anywhere close to that.

I see when I scout a player a similar to what I have but with a low team role status my scout is telling me I'm going to need to bid 30 times more than value, they even tell me I cant afford this player, the AI in return dont have a clue with a human, which I think puts them off altogether, or some reason makes them believe they can offer a lot less than what they are worth.

I got a player valued at 100k, keyplayer, performing out of his skin, undervalued cos he should be higher, (its just not very dynamic when you climb the leagues). The AI bid 50k, and a few k over 12 months, which I guess they think is an offer I cant refuse, its a great deal. I got the sense not to even waste the time making a bid like that for an AI player. Its a nonsense bid. Thats not the AI being clever, thats just broken.

They have a player who cant get in their squad valued at 100k, they want 3 million. Which to me I'm not arguing about, I think makes sense, they know how to sell, just have zero IQ when it comes to buying. They dont want to sell him so its going to take a good bid to get him, this fact is lost on the AI when it comes to bidding.

I would snap the AIs hands off if they made bids for my players like they reject from me, and on the otherside of the coin they make bids for my players I cant even take seriously and neither would they if I did it to them.

Basically playing 11 seasons, just missing out of the prem, feeling like a club in a bubble climbing up the leagues, as the AI turn a complete blind eye to you and your players, whether you are desperate to keep them or wouldnt mind getting rid, each one is staying till they retire or contract runs out, without fear of minimum release clauses, contracts running out, AI poaching, buying any players, selling any players, hasnt been the most thrilling 11 seasons I ever had on FM, add that to the most dull nonsense game mechanic ever invented Media interviews every 3 days :) I think I'd rather take up knitting.

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Until FM15 the AI never looked at player form when setting its transfer targets, your posts do contain a lot of incorrect assumptions & errors in how you think the game used to work.

The transfer AI is significantly more sophisticated than as recently as FM12 or 13 & is lightyears ahead of the early FM's & CM games.

Edit: What version are you playing? For some reason it's just popped into my head that I've seen you mention that you're playing an older version although I could be confusing younwith someone else.

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FM16. Well maybe they didnt look at performance if thats the code, and why did it take that long to add that anyway? It kind of sounds important to me that this should be a factor well before 2015 and all the other nonsense they added over it.

But either way, its not about whether it does or it doesnt, the biggest point is it felt like it did, and now it doesnt feel like it does at all, which is more important as simulation, I went into details of my save further up, it certainly doesnt play sophiscated, so it can be sophiscated as it wants. It doesnt feel like they take performance into comsideration at all now, even though its now in the code, so thats kind of strange, the less sophiscated one seems to feel and perform much more believable however it did it. So theyve obviously changed it the last two year and now some peoples saves you cant give your players away. That would raise a few questions for me if I was incharge.

I guess the phrase simple but more effective might have been the case, too complicated it doesnt work, where before it maybe it cheated to give the effect or however it did it but was more believable, cos it isnt clever enough to do it without, cos in older fms keeping hold of your stars was a constant battle, now you play without fear.

and what is the other alot of incorrect assumptions?

And anyway I'm not arguing with you, I'm not really bothered anymore, just wanted to have my say on transfer market, it might be the best most sophiscated code ever made by human hands, the most perfect transfer system to ever be created, or that some people will have no problems whatsoever, I dont disagree, it doesnt change the fact Ive gone 11 seasons almost from bottom to top, with players that I dont care what the reasons are why the code say they shouldnt, simply in reality should have attracted some interest whether I wanted to sell them or not, and in all that time got one bid for one player that wasnt insulting. And he was so bad couldnt even get into my team :) I havent found it very convincing.

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The only recommendation I can make is if you have any save points at times when you felt players should have generated interest them please provide details in a bug report & upload a copy of the save to SI's FTP server.

Now that you've had your say & had it a few times I trust you've got your frustrations out of your system.

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I'm not frustrated, I got my moneys worth out of the game, cant complain about value for money, you never can really, I just have an opinion on it after buying the game and playing it for 11 season, which I wanted to share, sorry it isnt entirely positive. It might sound that I'm annoyed, but I guess that must be just the way I type :) Need to put more of those in I think,

wouldnt it be more boring if it was just thread of thread of this is the best game ever, thanks SI.

I get that people are very, very defensive of this game, a little over the top to be honest sometimes, people even go through your post history looking for ways to discredit your opinion if its negative, to defend the game, its very dedicated. If you got a problem with the game, its either user, or you mustnt own it basically :)

But anyway dont worry, Ive done that now, said what I wanted, and I promise I'm done. I'm never going to mention it ever again.

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You should see the number of issues that are raised by us in our section of the forum, the most critical & prolific bug reporters are us Mods. We & SI actually try to encourage critical opinions & we're here to stop folk going overboard with insults or being a broken record with the same post time & time again, it's why I always suggest that people encountering issues start engaging with SI via the bugs forum.

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I'm looking at the transfer market/system with mixed feelings, too. I definitely wouldn't call it broken, none of that, but it feels very flat and not very dynamic at all. In my current save I'm playing Bayern, just finished the sixth season. 12 or 13 playable leagues (top euro leagues + Arg/Bra).

In those six years I have been able to sell 1 (one) player for 150% of his value, that's a absolute maximum. The players have one the Champions League twice, made it to the finals two more times, obviously won the Bundesliga every season, all my players get lots of playing time, ratings 7.5-8.20 average with a few outliers ... nonetheless over six years not a single "yes, we really want that guy and mean" bid from Real, City or PSG. Lots of joke bids, though, but as soon as I start to negotiate up (never asking for more than 200% of value) it's "bye, bye ... we're not paying more". On the other hand if I want to buy it's 200% of value at the very least in the vast majority of cases (I know I can play the unsettling game, but it's very boring to me)

Also when I look at the world transfer stats ... only very few marquee transfers over the last six years, even though club values have skyrocketed.

So yeah, transfers are certainly serviceable, but that's pretty much about it. Feels often like a chore, because unless you play unsettle-the-player you have to pay a lot more for signings then you can expect from sales.

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I'm looking at the transfer market/system with mixed feelings, too. I definitely wouldn't call it broken, none of that, but it feels very flat and not very dynamic at all. In my current save I'm playing Bayern, just finished the sixth season. 12 or 13 playable leagues (top euro leagues + Arg/Bra).

In those six years I have been able to sell 1 (one) player for 150% of his value, that's a absolute maximum. The players have one the Champions League twice, made it to the finals two more times, obviously won the Bundesliga every season, all my players get lots of playing time, ratings 7.5-8.20 average with a few outliers ... nonetheless over six years not a single "yes, we really want that guy and mean" bid from Real, City or PSG. Lots of joke bids, though, but as soon as I start to negotiate up (never asking for more than 200% of value) it's "bye, bye ... we're not paying more". On the other hand if I want to buy it's 200% of value at the very least in the vast majority of cases (I know I can play the unsettling game, but it's very boring to me)

Also when I look at the world transfer stats ... only very few marquee transfers over the last six years, even though club values have skyrocketed.

So yeah, transfers are certainly serviceable, but that's pretty much about it. Feels often like a chore, because unless you play unsettle-the-player you have to pay a lot more for signings then you can expect from sales.

I see no problem with what you have mentioned, that's pretty much spot on for Bayern Munich in my opinion. Bayern are a 'buying' club therefore you aren't going to get many offers from other clubs for your players. Realistically, how many teams in the world could afford to not only pay the transfer fees given the value of your players but pay their wages after they transfer.

I'd wager very few and if you are trying to sell to the elite who already have top players for the position you are selling them they aren't going to splash the cash because they don't really need the player. Especially if he only offers a nominal improvement over who they have already which tends to be the case with the majority of transfers between the elite clubs (exceptions being players like Cristiano Ronaldo).

Additionally, of course smaller clubs are going to try and gouge you as Bayern are rich and they want to extract as much money as they can from you. For the selling club, if a club as big as Bayern are interested in a player then we tend to be talking about a once in a generation player for them if they are (or could become) good enough to play for Bayern. So it makes perfect sense for them to start the negotiations with outrageous prices but that is only the start and you shouldn't give in so quickly.

Even though you don't want to play the 'unsettling' game as an elite club you pretty much have to unless you want to constantly pay way over the odds for players. You need to bypass the clubs wishes who obviously don't want to sell for cheap an irreplaceable player for them. Bayern have exceptional pulling power but you don't appear to be using that clout at all, you can't not use the most powerful weapon you have in transfer negotiations and then complain about how you can't buy players for less than 200% of their value because you can but just can't be bothered (how much of an effort is it really?).

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Reading some of these replies is infuriating.  

There is obviously a problem with the transfers and contracts. It needs refining. There is no doubt about it.

Players, agents and Bill, Bob and Ted are all too rigid in their expectations of more and more money. There is no compromise and therefore no fluidity or realism.

Two seasons in as Preston manager and I have so many examples of contract/agent stupidity!!!

First...Aiden McGeady - joined Preston on loan in real life but would never happen in FM as it currently stands. Absolutely no compromise on wages - NONE. I couldn't loan him again for 2nd season without ridiculous wage demands being asked by EVERTON for a player rotting in reserves. They would be biting my hand off to cover even half his wage!  His first season on loan was immense and he lit up the league however due to complete inflexibility on wage demands he went back to Everton, spent a full season in reserves and now is unemployed. What a waste! No valid club in Europe could afford to loan/buy him. 

Second....  After every season my players start kicking off wanting new deals. This is ok apart from the ridiculous demands being asked. At first I though this is a good portrayal of the football manager but now after 2 seasons I see the truth - it's broken. The demands are over 100% of their existing contract - which further exacerbates the underlying problem of players being priced out of the game! I signed Ashkan Dejagah in place of the self excluded Mcgeady. He was on 17k p/w. after one season he demands a new contract. He's only been playing for 12 months and has 2 years left to go. I tell him no and he kicks off! I relent and speak to the agent, he demands a whopping 30k p/w. I try to negotiate 24-28k p/w, he flatly refuses. He demands a transfer and ends up signing a contract worth 14.5k p/w at a french club. WTF?  I offered him 25k and a first team place in a premiership campaign????  RIDICULOUS. The agent has made player join a lesser club for less money in a lesser division.

Selling players..... What a joke!  Eoin Doyle becomes league 2 top scorer while on loan. His wage was 5k p/w approx and I struggled to get rid, John Welsh, Vadid Hambo, Ben Pringle, Andy Boyle, Callum Woods, Paul Caddis - received 920k combined and I'm probably still paying % of their wage!

More flexibility and compromise is needed in agent negotiations. 

On the last note - I just saw Raheem Sterling on loan list... I couldn't get to transfer section quick enough.  They only want a 14 million pound fee and his 150k a week wage paying in full every week ...... LOL.

To say contracts/agents/fees doesn't need refining and relaxing a bit is an insult to my intelligence.

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