HUNT3R Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Fascinating stuff, Alex. Love posts like those. It shows how deep the system really is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabioke Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Very impressive! This thread has made me realize that squad management is mirroring real life more than I imagined. It would be nice if the game would give more clues throughout the game. This could be done via player interaction, agent interaction or even the assistant manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Very impressive! This thread has made me realize that squad management is mirroring real life more than I imagined.It would be nice if the game would give more clues throughout the game. This could be done via player interaction, agent interaction or even the assistant manager. More clues would be good, but it certainly shows the depth and how people really need to think through their squad management. Hopefully the OP will see the flaws in his squad management and learn from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Post 28 is like a Utopia. How I would adore FM to provide this level of detail and feedback. The press system within the game (rumours etc flooding your inbox) would make it perfectly plausible to give to the player this information and would improve usability a hundred fold. It highlights how poor the interaction really is. Tons of ephemeral notes and news items, no actual realism. Not complaining as such, but imagine if the news items about no interest was along the lines Alex posted. Obviously without the CA/PA info or revealing transfer budgets beyond "not enough budget to make an offer". I've seen the future, and it's bright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMan Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Post 28 is like a Utopia. How I would adore FM to provide this level of detail and feedback. The press system within the game (rumours etc flooding your inbox) would make it perfectly plausible to give to the player this information and would improve usability a hundred fold. It highlights how poor the interaction really is. Tons of ephemeral notes and news items, no actual realism. Not complaining as such, but imagine if the news items about no interest was along the lines Alex posted. Obviously without the CA/PA info or revealing transfer budgets beyond "not enough budget to make an offer".I've seen the future, and it's bright. I like this actually, and this would be a wonderful use of the news system and would get you closer to having some red top paper sports headlines in the game. Rumours have it that "Club x" are after "Player Y" but only if the price comes down to "random value" or less according to our inside source... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brawla123 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 @HuddersfieldOwl When you look at a players scout report, the pros or cons tell you if the player will be interested in joining you. The same thing goes for the AI. Even if they are interested in your player, if they know from their scout reports that he won't be interested, why would they waste their time? You have to think about it from all the parties point of view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhawk Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 If it helps, Srdjan Mijailovic won't need a work permit soon. Serbia get EC/EU status in 2020. But apart from that, what Alex is saying makes total sense when broken down into each individual players, and I too would appreciate that in game, with a few obvious omissions. Also, it is stated players are not happy to sit out, playing football is the overriding emotion. Simply not the case, especially with a very small squad it gives them hope. Footballers are obstinate individuals in both wages and their self-opinion. Those on high wages won't go anywhere, look at Benoit Assou-Ekotto. Most didn't know he was at Spurs still until they released him this January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 You have to think about it from all the parties point of view. No, he obviously doesn't . I love the thread title MUST READ As it turns out, it is exactly that. Alex has gone above and beyond breaking down some of the complexities of the transfer system, and everyone who moans about the transfer system should read it. And for what it's worth, I agree with needing a bit more feedback in this area, and I hope that SI will take a look at this for FM16. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 No, he obviously doesn't . I love the thread title MUST READ As it turns out, it is exactly that. Alex has gone above and beyond breaking down some of the complexities of the transfer system, and everyone who moans about the transfer system should read it. And for what it's worth, I agree with needing a bit more feedback in this area, and I hope that SI will take a look at this for FM16. The thing is though, there's been a need for this 'feedback' for a long while now. We've needed it on the tactical roles, we've needed it to be better for player interaction, we've needed it to be more clear in the media interaction as well. As it is, things get expanded upon and bloated and yet again we're only finding out about this sort of stuff via a forum post when 90% of that stuff should be getting fed back to the user and it should be fed back in a concise and clear and non-contradictory manner. If SI do tackle it, I hope it doesn't turn out to be something like the Assman feedback, which everyone says should be ignored and is still utter dross and completely useless for most the part. We shall see! >_> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipping pig Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Feedback is the key here. If the developers want to avoid the abuse then why not have the game tell you why players cannot be transferred out? I don't think you'll find many FM players who would see this as being 'spoon fed' as someone bizarrely stated above! After all if this were real life I would be asking my DoF or whoever why we were receiving no offers for players, and I'd expect more than 'No club see it as a viable transfer'. As for the issues resulting from DB size, well this should be flagged up in big letters before you start a game. It is not fair and totally unreasonable to expect users to know how DB sizes is going to influence the transfer system. i had this problem myself and had no choice but to start a new game with a different set up once I realized after a coupe of seasons that there was an issue. It's this sort of thing that is bound to annoy players and end up with them on here and far from happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Feedback is the key here. If the developers want to avoid the abuse then why not have the game tell you why players cannot be transferred out? I don't think you'll find many FM players who would see this as being 'spoon fed' as someone bizarrely stated above! After all if this were real life I would be asking my DoF or whoever why we were receiving no offers for players, and I'd expect more than 'No club see it as a viable transfer'.As for the issues resulting from DB size, well this should be flagged up in big letters before you start a game. It is not fair and totally unreasonable to expect users to know how DB sizes is going to influence the transfer system. i had this problem myself and had no choice but to start a new game with a different set up once I realized after a coupe of seasons that there was an issue. It's this sort of thing that is bound to annoy players and end up with them on here and far from happy. There is no such thing as "If the developers want to avoid the abuse" just so we're clear. People coming on with that attitude will not last long around here. Just wanted to make that crystal clear there is no justification for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipping pig Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 There is no justification for being slapped across the face with a wet fish. However if I could easily avoid it by communicating better, then I would... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edj Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 This kind of depth in player logic is why I come back to FM year after year. IRL, there is no way a player like Tom Lees who has toiled in the Championship for his whole career is going to accept a move back down after finally winning promotion to the top flight. He's going to want to stick around and take his chance playing in the top flight, even if it's from the bench. Agree that some additional feedback would enhance the experience... a new field containing the leagues / teams that a player would accept a move to would do the trick. Or give the manager the option to email another manager "hey, why aren't you bidding on this guy that I have listed?" (maybe even an opportunity to forge a better relationship with another coach and/or get a You Take This Troublemaker Off My Hands and I'll Take Yours Off Of Your Hands deal going?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 There is no justification for being slapped across the face with a wet fish. However if I could easily avoid it by communicating better, then I would... You have been given some feedback/knowledge not previously available and the SI staffer giving it went out on a limb a bit to do so, so instead of acting entitled make the most of the opportunity and come up with sensible suggestions for implementing more such feedback both in game and in manual form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Feedback is the key here. If the developers want to avoid the abuse then why not have the game tell you why players cannot be transferred out? I don't think you'll find many FM players who would see this as being 'spoon fed' as someone bizarrely stated above! After all if this were real life I would be asking my DoF or whoever why we were receiving no offers for players, and I'd expect more than 'No club see it as a viable transfer'. Or anyone coming on here could, you know, be a decent human being and not abuse people who are just doing their job, no matter what they do. As for the issues resulting from DB size, well this should be flagged up in big letters before you start a game. It is not fair and totally unreasonable to expect users to know how DB sizes is going to influence the transfer system. i had this problem myself and had no choice but to start a new game with a different set up once I realized after a coupe of seasons that there was an issue. It's this sort of thing that is bound to annoy players and end up with them on here and far from happy. It's common sense. Less players in the database means less choice, and less clubs to actively look for players. It's not rocket science. Ironic that you complain about spoon-feeding, then suggest being spoon-fed information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Fascinating thread, despite the OP's determination not to listen. This threads parallels what we often see in the tactics forum, in which the user baldly states "it's not my tactics" and then runs around with his fingers in his ears after knowledgable users clearly demonstrate it is his tactics. As FM matures, it becomes increasingly difficult to exploit its mechanisms, as the OP is discovering. I do have some sympathy. Although I'd consider his squad management poor and never maintain a squad like that myself, the user doesn't get enough information to help him work out that he's making bad decisions. It can't be as spoon fed as Alex is making it, but some kind of communication from the manager's backroom team, player's agent or interested clubs might help the user work out where he's going wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I do have some sympathy. Although I'd consider his squad management poor and never maintain a squad like that myself, the user doesn't get enough information to help him work out that he's making bad decisions. It can't be as spoon fed as Alex is making it, but some kind of communication from the manager's backroom team, player's agent or interested clubs might help the user work out where he's going wrong. I think that's right- the OP has a semi-legitimate complaint, and certainly can't be faulted for not necessarily understanding why he can't shift some of his players, so some feedback is needed. At the same time, applying a bit of logic and common sense goes a long way in FM and always has. Somewhere the two must meet to keep it challenging without making it head-bashingly obscure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarltonBanks Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Great posts from the staff in here, really gives us a greater understanding of the system. It's too bad that the TC is so stubborn about this issue, because he's received as much help from SI as anyone could ever hope for. At least the rest of us can use this information and put it to good use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saiyaman Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think that's right- the OP has a semi-legitimate complaint, and certainly can't be faulted for not necessarily understanding why he can't shift some of his players, so some feedback is needed. At the same time, applying a bit of logic and common sense goes a long way in FM and always has. Somewhere the two must meet to keep it challenging without making it head-bashingly obscure. You know, like alex mentioned there could be more interaction. Let's say you offer a player and there is no interest. A news item is generated which informs you: "Player seems happy at Club. In the light of club transfer listing player with many sources also claiming he was shoved out, player indicated to the news media that he was perfectly happy. "I'm not interested in a move", he told the journalist." Cue a new option "Convince player :D". It is similar to reactions when the manager decalres he is interested in signing a player in REVERSE! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatecoatedballs Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I agree, there has been some great feedback and insights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm really wondering why the OP only has 13 first team players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiitastic Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 um why not use the unwanted player list and offer for nothing or release? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I've actually been really impressed with some of the player interactions this time around to be honest. A lot of love went into it this version. They do seem a bit too volitile much of the time, but that seems to be a balance issues to do with the RPG elements added, and something that can surely be tweaked and balanced. My personal favourite of the lot though was when my captain (playing as Nuremberg) informed me that he wanted to go to Bayern if an offer came in. What was impressive is that the game actually gave me the chance to tell me "as they are our rival... yeah, nah mate", which he actually accepted. Quite fun actually. Now I just have to deal with Bayern wanting my entire midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 What a wonderful read this thread has been (in spite of the OP). Having a detailed breakdown of what is going on and why player A does not want to leave, and why team X have not made an offer is fascinating. I have actually unintentionally learnt things from this thread that I will doubtless be translating into how I go about selling players now. This is a great way to engage users as well, genuinely kudos all round to the staff here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANUMAD Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 This! This works every save for me (but needs patience): http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2013-discussion/106431-how-sell-my-player-thread-raikan007.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuddersfieldOwl Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think that's right- the OP has a semi-legitimate complaint, and certainly can't be faulted for not necessarily understanding why he can't shift some of his players, so some feedback is needed. At the same time, applying a bit of logic and common sense goes a long way in FM and always has. Somewhere the two must meet to keep it challenging without making it head-bashingly obscure. @Dr Hook ... Thanks for being the first person to not try patronsise me .... @Alex... Don't think I do not appreciate the help you have given and the detail you have gone too ... I would just love if you could see if from the gamer / the users point of view. For a full year (career year) I have played with a small squad ... "Why, I hear you all ask" .... simple ... the stupid, ridiculous under 21's (and that per se is not a dig at SI in it's entirity as this is the way the game has gone in real life too) .... What's the point in having more than 16 players, when they cannot keep fit, as they cannot play in the under 21's as are too old (can only have 3 over age players play) ... and the assistant does not rotate the players he picks (unless you manage the 21's which is ridiculous) ... so the same players remain unfit and are not playing ... so I keep a very tight core of players ...I trust my under 18's in emergencies to step up !! So, with this being so..... these players I am trying to remove have not played, are not part of the plans, do stay as under 21 players, do stay listed, loan and transfer... are continually offered to terminate contracts etc etc .... what more can I do to make it obvious they are not part of my plans !!! Cannot terminate contracts due to board... On a second point.... and this is me after genuine advice, not me being unhappy with the troubles of the transfer system......this guy with the WP issue... he has 4 star ability and potential... so why would not a single team from abroad take him on loan, or free transfer... if he had a work permit, he would be the best player in my side, IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE ... Is this to do with my setup ? Is it to do with database size which peoeple keep bandying around as some user led excuse / issue ? Or again is it linked to the issue of selling players full stop ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 For a full year (career year) I have played with a small squad ... "Why, I hear you all ask" .... simple ... the stupid, ridiculous under 21's (and that per se is not a dig at SI in it's entirity as this is the way the game has gone in real life too) .... What's the point in having more than 16 players, when they cannot keep fit, as they cannot play in the under 21's as are too old (can only have 3 over age players play) ... and the assistant does not rotate the players he picks (unless you manage the 21's which is ridiculous) ... so the same players remain unfit and are not playing ... so I keep a very tight core of players ...I trust my under 18's in emergencies to step up !! Why do you just not rotate your squad to keep the backup players fit? The core of my PSV is 21 players, which I do not allow to be made available for my B team at all unless they are coming back from a particularly nasty injury and need a slow introduction back to the first team. Of those 21 players, 17 are either match fit or in superb condition. Of the 4 who are not, 1 is lacking match fitness and is making his return to full fitness from injury, 2 are just recovered from injury and have started training again recently, and the final player is backup to Depay who is simply too important to my team to rotate often. With one exception, every player in my team has played at least 14 games (with as many sub appearances). Obviously you cannot rotate everyone all the time, some players are invaluable. But it is totally possible to have a core of 20 or so players who you can keep match fit. I know that is not your issue here, but I thought I would offer you some advice on how to combat having to have a small first team! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YKW Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Sincere thanks for your time in explaining things here Alex, it's very much appreciated. The only small point of contention that I think has been raised, by yourself and others, is this issue of "spoon feeding." While I agree with the general sentiment that users should have to figure out how elements of the game work on their own, I think it also needs to be remembered that FM is intended as a simulation, and so some areas of the game simply SHOULD NOT be ambiguous. Don't forget that in real life, as well as being able to observe the emotions and reactions of the players, the manager can speak to his players directly. Perhaps he would have had a conversation with the player in question about moving in which the player makes it clear he wants to play in the premiership. Perhaps he has been told that information from a third party who has spoken to the player, or maybe even he has overheard the lads joking around about him being destined for the championship. Regardless, it is very unlikely that the manager and player would not have spoken about this clearly. I think it would be a decent idea to ask ourselves what it is that makes football management as difficult task as it obviously is. Many of the difficult elements of FM are comparably easy in real life, such as conveying ideas to your players, and receiving information from them. Many of the elements that I feel make real football management difficult are not currently represented well in the game, such as hierarchical issues, uncertainty about player development and ability, and the predatory nature of higher stature clubs. Not all managers have total control over their transfers, and this is not represented in the game at all. Tactics should be difficult and although they are, I can't help but feel they are difficult in terms of flow of information, where real life tactics are 100% not difficult in this way, again due to the continuous nature of conversation. The suitability of the game plan should be the challenge more so than "not being spoon fed" the correct elements of each game plan. Of course this is just my opinion, but if the game is difficult because of a lack of clarity, especially when there would be almost total clarity in real life, then the nature of the system needs to be re-considered. Obviously you are already doing this by considering ways of improving the feedback given to users, which is great, but I also think that a more general assessment of where the difficulty should be coming from would also be beneficial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiitastic Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 You might want to have another read of the thread, the reason the OP started it was because those actions did not produce the resulst he wanted & I have been explaining why that is the case. Well tbh, the OP never mentioned offering players via the unwanted list for free or to release them (in the first 5 posts). He did just say he offered for free which could mean he dropped their sale value form say 500k to 0 in the offer to clubs transfer section. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 FM is intended as a simulation, and so some areas of the game simply SHOULD NOT be ambiguous. Yes, the game should provide us with information we'd have available irl, preferably in a form we'd be privy to it in that case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuddersfieldOwl Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 As part of advice over game setup, in order to sell players abroad, i.e. players who have really high AP and CP and who are regulars and performing really well, what is best way to get other clubs apart from England looking at / buying players ? People have said use a small database .... but surely that restricts me to players I can buy ... ? People have said add as playable leagues, all the divisons you would like to seel too.... but surely that takes an enormity of time to process all those fixtures and have all that info clogging news feed ? I am still perplexed at why these players (and similar) in this post cannot be moved on, but genuinely, thanks for trying to shed some light ... even if it seems a little "excusey" ... tried selling one of my "best" performers from my first Premier league season .. Anderson ... who should have a high reputaiton in European football .. .but was unable to sell him for free either .... that was pre season... with now a much larger squad !! I'm just going to have to deal with being poor and not being able to manipulate my squad how I would like ... hahaha Roll on TV money ..... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 As part of advice over game setup, in order to sell players abroad, i.e. players who have really high AP and CP and who are regulars and performing really well, what is best way to get other clubs apart from England looking at / buying players ?People have said use a small database .... but surely that restricts me to players I can buy ... ? People have said add as playable leagues, all the divisons you would like to seel too.... but surely that takes an enormity of time to process all those fixtures and have all that info clogging news feed ? Its your save and you need to decide what a good tradeoff is for you in terms of playability vs time taken to process. The bottom line is the more playable leagues you load the better the transfer market works, combine this with a small database and you have a much better balance. If you want a large database & low number of leagues that fine but you need to understand the impact which is you flood the gameworld with too many players for the teams leaving lots of players with no where to go. Sure it gives you lots of cheap options when it comes to buying but so have the other clubs which means selling is much harder. You need to choose what you want. I am still perplexed at why these players (and similar) in this post cannot be moved on, but genuinely, thanks for trying to shed some light ... even if it seems a little "excusey" ... tried selling one of my "best" performers from my first Premier league season .. Anderson ... who should have a high reputaiton in European football .. .but was unable to sell him for free either .... that was pre season... with now a much larger squad !! I really perplexed at how you cannot understand Alex's explanation tbh. It really is simple: A) You have a really small squad which means the players still feel they have a part to play. B) Their reputation, attributes, CA and contract with a Premiership club means several don't want to drop back to a Championship team just yet. C) The Premiership clubs that are interested in some of them don't feel they can afford them atm given their current budgets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuddersfieldOwl Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 i really perplexed at how you cannot understand alex's explanation tbh. It really is simple: A) you have a really small squad which means the players still feel they have a part to play. b) their reputation, attributes, ca and contract with a premiership club means several don't want to drop back to a championship team just yet. c) the premiership clubs that are interested in some of them don't feel they can afford them atm given their current budgets. A) Did you read my last post or jump on the pro si campaign again for more ego points ? .... I am pre season now and have a squad of nearly 23 players B) I am not targetting the championship, my aim was to see if i could sell anyone, now i had a larger squad C) so, what is the point in having a transfer system at all then ... If i cannot sell (for purposes of testing theories), my best performer, my most marketable player, in order to generate some revenue to strengthen elsewhere .... Wheh can i use the transfer system ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 so, what is the point in having a transfer system at all then ... If i cannot sell (for purposes of testing theories), my best performer, my most marketable player, in order to generate some revenue to strengthen elsewhere .... Wheh can i use the transfer system ?? Because it seems like the teams who are interested in your players, don't have the money. Your game setup also doesn't help you possibly selling players abroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbohotdog Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 The best time to sell players is always the start of the transfer window when all the teams have money. Also the player should be wanted by other clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 so, what is the point in having a transfer system at all then ... If i cannot sell (for purposes of testing theories), my best performer, my most marketable player, in order to generate some revenue to strengthen elsewhere .... When can i use the transfer system ?? And yet, the transfer history from your save shows... 2014/15 - Spent: £725,000 Sold: £2.9m 2015/16 - Spent: £1.9m Sold: £17.5m 2016/17 (Jan'17) - Spent: £6.75m Sold: £13.12m That's a net profit of almost £25million. Seems like you're using it just fine. You've been repeatedly told why the other players aren't shifting from your squad. Seriously dude, either deal with it or go and play something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 In FM if you want to sell a player then I have found you have more chance if you play him. Tell the World how good he is and then wait for a bid to come in. If you dump them in the reserves expecting good money then forget it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuddersfieldOwl Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 And yet, the transfer history from your save shows...2014/15 - Spent: £725,000 Sold: £2.9m 2015/16 - Spent: £1.9m Sold: £17.5m 2016/17 (Jan'17) - Spent: £6.75m Sold: £13.12m That's a net profit of almost £25million. Seems like you're using it just fine. You've been repeatedly told why the other players aren't shifting from your squad. Seriously dude, either deal with it or go and play something else. That was from sales of players who were doing so well bids automatically came in .... Huge offers ... cannot be rejected .... If we take into account my sales, the picture would be eerily different ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarltonBanks Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not sure what you don't understand about this. You have chosen a horrible, terrible setup to try to sell players. No one is jumping to defend SI, but the problems you are having are entirely your fault and you need to stop blaming the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkoping Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Out of curiosity, on the assumption that you load most of the leagues and countries except for maybe asia, what size of database is optimum? Small with most countries loaded? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Out of curiosity, on the assumption that you load most of the leagues and countries except for maybe asia, what size of database is optimum? Small with most countries loaded? The size of the actual number of players loaded depends on how many leagues you choose. The more leagues/divisions you have as playable the less difference there is between small/medium/large database size % wise. Personally speaking though I would always select small irrelevant of which leagues I chose. I've found in the past if you don't want to load all countries focus on a continent so Europe for instance. Load as many playable leagues/divisions as you can, the more variety in country the better and it should give you a decent setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawlore Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The size of the actual number of players loaded depends on how many leagues you choose. The more leagues/divisions you have as playable the less difference there is between small/medium/large database size % wise. Personally speaking though I would always select small irrelevant of which leagues I chose. It would be interesting to see the results of some soak tests with various setups of database sizes and leagues loaded, and the effect that had on transfer activity. I'm still not sure the relationship between them is common enough knowledge, and common sense dictates that people will automatically tend towards a "Large" database, which is ultimately counterproductive for an active transfer market. Even if it just resulted in an extra line in the dialogue box saying "You have selected X leagues in Y nations with a Z database. This will result in a BUSY / NORMAL / SLOW transfer market." Although I'm not sure quite how you'd measure transfer activity to compare the various setups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 That was from sales of players who were doing so well bids automatically came in So, sales for players that clubs actually wanted then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 "There are a few teams interested in taking *insert player here*, however his agent has indicated he isn't willing to play in a lower division" "Despite being transfer listed *insert player here* believes he has something to offer *insert manager here* and wants to fight for his place in the team" Sounds like a reasonable addition to the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasilli07 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The best time to sell players is always the start of the transfer window when all the teams have money. Also the player should be wanted by other clubs. Got to agree with this. Once the budget is decided for the new season, try to sell the unwanted players immediately. Offer up for 0 to drum up interest. Reject and then offer a reasonable transfer fee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YKW Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm not sure what you don't understand about this. You have chosen a horrible, terrible setup to try to sell players. No one is jumping to defend SI, but the problems you are having are entirely your fault and you need to stop blaming the game. I think you are mostly correct here, especially because you identified this issue right at the start of the thread, nice work. I think the OPs situation has been explained to him very well, although I think it is clear that the fault is with SI, as the game does not tell the user during set-up that the transfer market will be affected. I'm not sure if it even hints at it. Considering the significant effect database size seems to have, I think it is bad game design not to explain this to the user. It's just a small change that is needed, but I do think it is harsh to say the problems are the OPs "fault" as he didn't have the information to make a better decision. Lawlore's post above addresses this quite well, and I would love to see the experiment that he mentions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 "There are a few teams interested in taking *insert player here*, however his agent has indicated he isn't willing to play in a lower division""Despite being transfer listed *insert player here* believes he has something to offer *insert manager here* and wants to fight for his place in the team" Sounds like a reasonable addition to the game That is already in the game to an extent. If you offer a player for a transfer and there are interested teams, the game will tell often indicate why a team has not put in a bid. For example, "team X cannot afford the wage demqnds" or "team X are unwilling to make an offer while the price remains as it is". What you suggest would be a welcome addition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 That is already in the game to an extent. If you offer a player for a transfer and there are interested teams, the game will tell often indicate why a team has not put in a bid. For example, "team X cannot afford the wage demqnds" or "team X are unwilling to make an offer while the price remains as it is". What you suggest would be a welcome addition. I re read my post and it sounded a little dismissive, which wasn't my intention I think this is the only real area of the game that needs significant redesign work, and by that I mean help / signposting, not transfers. I know player interaction is a bit sensitive, and the ME / transfer module / regens will always be tweaked every release, I just think someone needs to get a hold of how the game communicates things to the user and gives it a good shake. I noticed yesterday on the "help" tips that show when the game is progressing through dates the message to "assign a playmaker in team instructions". Was this not something that went when the TC was introduced? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 "There are a few teams interested in taking *insert player here*, however his agent has indicated he isn't willing to play in a lower division""Despite being transfer listed *insert player here* believes he has something to offer *insert manager here* and wants to fight for his place in the team" Sounds like a reasonable addition to the game I think it is eminently reasonable, and hope we can see something done (next version, even). The news item where "no offers for X" would be the perfect place for it. Instead of a message no teams find a deal viable, it could have what you posted, there. I think that is information that we should have and also it is information that a RL manager would have as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuddersfieldOwl Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 The only part league selection has played on the save provided was that by only having England loaded as an active nation it meant that many of the clubs outside England are inactive, this reduced the number of clubs who were able to consider signing the lad without a work-permit to a very small pool, tbh if a nation isn't selected at the start of the game I'd imagine that the default view of most people should be that the league will be inactive across all areas of the game.I'm not sure why anyone would think anything different would happen. Erm, purely because this never used to be the case ... I have owned every FM since they began Am I meant to guess my league selection and database size will have an impact upon transfer activity, when beforehand, foreign clubs always showed interest in "good" "performing" players... I have never, ever, loaded any other leagues than just England and never, ever used a small database .... why would I want to restrict the players I can sign / scout / involve in my game Less immsersive expereince ... shocking suggestion from a member of SI ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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