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I have some questions regarding training. I've searched some answers, but most discussion I've seen in this sub-forum seems to center around tactics and tactic creation. I apologize if there is an in depth topic answering my questions that I've missed.

First off, I'm playing FM 2015, not familiar with versions before (I had played FM 2008 before, but that was a long time ago). And I just started playing, so not a seasoned player..

1) I'm looking at a player's development, the player Thiago Alcantara, a 22 year old midfield-DM/AM ©, and on his development screen, almost all coaches advice that he should be put on an individual training regime to improve his ability to mark players, even though he is on a positional training (central midfield-all duties) which covers that. What I did was, I wanted him to learn marking as a PPM, so I asked my 4.5 star defending coach/asst coach (Mauro Tassotti) to teach him that, but he said "I don't see this player capable of doing that. I think it would be beneficial if he learned xxxxx instead".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm interpreting this as the coaches are asking me to put him on a training to improve something that he's not capable of doing to begin with..

Am I correct or am I misinterpreting this?

2) I started the game with players like Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, all of who have excellent finishing abilities, with Robben providing excellent scoring from long shots, and players like Ribery and Gotze who also have good finishing, not excellent, but fairly good when they find chances inside the box.

I realize that there's more to scoring in games than just the "finishing" attribute, such as anticipation, off the ball, composure and decisions, and pace can help as well. For example, Muller only has 14 finishing, but he has 19 anticipation and 20 off the ball, which makes him a great "raumdeuter" (for whom I believe the role was inspired into the game) and a shadow/second/deep lying striker that makes him find space to score lots of goals, both in the game and in real life especially. Early in the game, all these players score well in a tactic I created.

Later towards the first half of the first season, however, it seems like these players have lost the ability to score. I'm creating fair enough of chances, their condition in the game seems around 80% (sometimes even early in the game), but they seem to shoot off the mark or right at the keeper, even in one on one situations. The raumdeuter, in fact, seems to have lost his ability to raumdeut, as he seems to wander around like he's lost somehow. I'm still winning the games, but mostly through goals scored at corner kicks by the least likely of players I had when I started the game, a wonderkid (Hojbjerg) whom I'm having tutored by Alonso, whom I've been training well and playing in the first team at the expense of senior star players consistently sitting out on the bench so he can play and he's developing into a monster, with all his attributes improving, and he's been scoring a lot from just outside the box on corner kicks. Basically I've won like the last 8 games or so just by him an a couple of defenders scoring on corner kicks, otherwise my attackers can no longer score.

What's the problem? Is it my training? I'm reading several training guides, but I can't really draw out a definite conclusion. Within my current tactic, my striker is a DLS-support or F9, my raumdeuter is RW-support, my left winger is a ML-support. I've played around with the support/attack options, but it didn't change much. Also on individual training focus, I've put all of them on complete striker-all duties training to train all the attributes it highlights on their development page. I did the same for some attacking midfielders like Gotze as well.

For general training, I run 1-2 weeks of tactical training to improve their teamwork, anticipation, decisions, etc.. which I assume teaches them how to move around the pitch on and off the ball to create passing options/chances and to develop their positional play, increase their awareness in positional play, etc. Then for another 2-3 weeks, I switch the general training to attacking focus to improve their passing, shooting, crossing, etc. I don't do 2 consecutive weeks for one and 2-3 consecutive weeks for the other focus, but rather mixing it each week like attack-attack-tactical-attack-tactical-attack-attack-tactical and something like that..

I never did "balanced" general training, and implemented "ball control" once, and "fitness" once during an international break. (except during preseason I did fitness training focus on very high for about 3 weeks)

3)I also assign role training to most players in individual training, and I assign different roles to some players to improve their skills/attributes in those areas as well (like training all my attackers in "complete forward-all duties" role), like sometimes assigning my attacking midfielders to roaming playmaker role training or switch them around to something else. Does that add any value to my training, or would that have an adverse affect on the player? Should I just focus attribute training instead (although I prefer role training for young players).

4) Is it in anyway possible to create custom training for players? For example, what if I want my general training to run as follows: 1 day intense fitness training, 2 days tactical, 1 day attacking or ball control or defending (depending on the week), and I want certain groups of players to train differently than/separate from others... Is it in anyway possible to tweak training like this?

5) As for positional training, I've read somewhere that if I train my AM© for a new position, say, winger or striker, or my winger into a striker or central playmaker position (new position training), I've read that the game calculates the player's suitability/attributes for that role, and it devaluates his CA/PA whatever, and some of his attributes regress or something.. Is it possible to train players for additional positions without having an adverse affect on their current/potential abilities to make them more versatile.. This is possible in real life. I wonder if this is possible in the game..

It's been a long read, I hope I didn't bore anyone. I'd appreciate if I could find some answers. Thanks in advance.

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1) I'm looking at a player's development, the player Thiago Alcantara, a 22 year old midfield-DM/AM ©, and on his development screen, almost all coaches advice that he should be put on an individual training regime to improve his ability to mark players, even though he is on a positional training (central midfield-all duties) which covers that. What I did was, I wanted him to learn marking as a PPM, so I asked my 4.5 star defending coach/asst coach (Mauro Tassotti) to teach him that, but he said "I don't see this player capable of doing that. I think it would be beneficial if he learned xxxxx instead".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm interpreting this as the coaches are asking me to put him on a training to improve a certain attribute of his, but I'm learning that he's not capable of doing what's asked from me to train him for? Am I correct or am I misinterpreting?

Ignore them and go with what you think is correct. They are often wrong especially with their opinions on PPM's and what players can/can't learn.

2) I started the game with players like Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, all of who have excellent finishing abilities, with Robben providing excellent scoring from long shots, and players like Ribery and Gotze who also have good finishing, not excellent, but fairly good when they find chances inside the box.

I realize that there's more to scoring in games than just the "finishing" attribute, such as anticipation, off the ball, composure and decisions, and pace can help as well. For example, Muller only has 14 finishing, but he has 19 anticipation and 20 off the ball, which makes him a great "raumdeuter" (for whom I believe the role was inspired into the game) and a shadow/second striker that makes him find space to score lots of goals, both in the game and in real life especially. Early in the game, all these players score well in a tactic I created.

Later towards the first half of the first season, however, it seems like these players have lost the ability to score. I'm creating fair enough of chances, their condition in the game seems well above 80% (sometimes even early in the game), but they seem to shoot off the mark or right at the keeper, even in one on one situations. The raumdeuter, in fact, seems to have lost his ability to raumdeut, as he seems to wander around like he's lost somehow. I'm still winning the games, but mostly through goals scored at corner kicks by the least likely of players I had when I started the game, a wonderkid (Hojbjerg) whom I'm having tutored by Alonso, whom I've been training well and playing in the first team at the expense of senior star players consistently sitting out on the bench so he can play and he's developing into a monster, with all his attributes improving, and he's been scoring a lot from just outside the box on corner kicks. Basically I've won like the last 8 games or so just by him an a couple of defenders scoring on corner kicks, otherwise my attackers can no longer score.

What's the problem? Is it my training? I'm reading several training guides, but I can't really draw out a definite conclusion. Within my current tactic, my striker is a DLS-support or F9, my raumdeuter is RW-support, my left winger is a ML-support. I've played around with the support/attack options, but it didn't change much. Also on individual training focus, I've put all of them on complete striker-all duties training to train all the attributes it highlights on their development page.

It's a tactical issue not a training one. You need to look back at the games and find out why they no longer do what they did before. Maybe its the way the opposition now play against you or something. However you need to watch games back to see the issues.

For general training, I run 1-2 weeks of tactical training to improve their teamwork, anticipation, decisions, etc.. which I assume that teaches them how to move around the pitch on and off the ball to create passing options/chances and to develop their positional play, increase their awareness in positional play, etc. Then for another 2-3 weeks, I switch the general training to attacking focus to improve their passing, shooting, crossing, etc. I don't do 2 consecutive weeks for one and 2-3 consecutive weeks for the other focus, but rather mixing it each week like attack-attack-tactical-attack-tactical-attack-attack-tactical and something like that..

I never did "balanced" general training, and implemented "ball control" once, and "fitness" once during an international break.

General training is long term not short term. It takes around 60 days for the effect to have any kind of baring and even then it'll be minimal. The training just trains attributes it doesn't teach them anything to do with playing directly only attributes.

3)I also assign role training to most players in individual training, and I assign different roles to some players to improve their skills/attributes in those areas as well (like training all my attackers in "complete forward-all duties" role), like sometimes assigning my attacking midfielders to roaming playmaker role training or switch them around to something else. Does that add any value to my training, or would that have an adverse affect on the player? Should I just focus attribute training instead (although I prefer role training for young players).

You can choose role or attribute training it depends what you want from the player, both are equal really it comes down to which method best fits you and how you play.

4) Is it in anyway possible to create custom training for players? For example, what if I want my general training to run as follows: 1 day intense fitness training, 2 days tactical, 1 day attacking or ball control or defending (depending on the week), and I want certain players to train differently than others... Is it in anyway possible to tweak training like this?

Not any more no.

5) As for positional training, I've read somewhere that if I train my AM© for a new position, say, winger or striker, or my winger into a striker or central playmaker position (new position training), I've read that the game calculates the player's suitability/attributes for that role, and it devaluates his CA/PA whatever, and some of his attributes regress or something.. Is it possible to train players for additional positions without having an adverse affect on their current/potential abilities to make them more versatile.. This is possible in real life. I wonder if this is possible in the game..

They don't drop as such the game just tries to rebalance them but 99.9% of time you don't actually see attributes drop, you might see orange arrows but that's not the same as attributes dropping. Adding new positions to players works fine and doesn't do anything to his PA and shouldn't impact his CA much either.

For a more in depth thread which fully explains training and shows examples then this thread basically covers everything training related;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/380395-Ajax-When-Real-Life-Meets-Football-Manager-FM14

Ignore the team that doesn't matter but all the info it this thread does :)

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Thank you for your answer.

Ignore them and go with what you think is correct. They are often wrong especially with their opinions on PPM's and what players can/can't learn.

I realize that their suggestions regarding individual training for certain players at the weekly staff meeting, and Asst. Mgr.'s tactical suggestions during the match should also be taken with a pinch of salt and not necessarily followed, right? I don't follow Asst. Mgr's suggestions during the matches anymore.

It's a tactical issue not a training one. You need to look back at the games and find out why they no longer do what they did before. Maybe its the way the opposition now play against you or something. However you need to watch games back to see the issues.

The opposition eventually began to adapt to my tactics for sure, as they seem to defend better, and especially how they adapted to my corner kicks in the past few games by marking my short option guy and blocking my guy who scores from long shots from outside the box (but he manages to get one or two in anyway, and still manages to score one every other game or more)..

But the thing is, my forwards (striker, raumdeuter/inside forward etc, CAM etc) still manage to get plenty of one on one chances with the keeper inside the box, either with a through pass or on a break, some of which are clear cut chances for even a central defender to score, yet while they were easily scoring early in the sseason, they now somehow began to shoot way off the mark or right at the keeper. One even missed a PK a few games ago. I don't know how this translates to what the opposition does, as it seems more like a matter of worsening shooting technique? I'm not sure. Another reason I could think of would be fatique, but I have such a large squad that I rotate them very frequently, so much so that during the Champions League group stages, I almost had one set of players to play midweek and another set to play league games on the weekends, except for Ribery and Lewandowski, who I rotate less often, but everyone else is rotating game to game, at least as far as starting 11 is concerned, as I sub certain ones I user in previous games in during the games they don't start. And the general mood of the squad is so good that "the atmosphere in and out of the locker room" is mentioned in the board satisfaction with my job as a major contributing factor.

One minor problem with that though, since I mentioned it, is that one player whom I played more than half the games (very frequently) has come up to me to discuss his first team status as he was very unhappy for losing his first team spot, and I had to back down and tell him he will get his time otherwise he would affect the entire team as he is liked by the entire team. I told him that, because there was no option to tell him that he's already playing regularly. I don't know if this is a bug.

But anyway.. Back on the subject...

General training is long term not short term. It takes around 60 days for the effect to have any kind of baring and even then it'll be minimal. The training just trains attributes it doesn't teach them anything to do with playing directly only attributes.

So does that mean one should keep using the same general training focus over the entire season or at least for a focused amount of time like, say, 60-90 days before changing it to something else? I was reading this website called "guide to football manager", which was also referred by someone here I believe, and on the training section, it suggests certain training drills in relation to certain tactical styles, such as:

Passing through the defense and Attacking with creative wingers: Tactics, with some Attacking

and

Running at defense: Ball Control, with some Fitness

and so forth

From your answer, I get that there is no absolute answer to these questions as one should try to implement what he sees fit, but how does one implement the general training focus as "this, with some of that" if the effects of general training is long term and shows itself after minimum 60 days or so?

So looking from this perspective, does my style of mixing the general training focus every other week or every week cause my training to yield ineffective results? Or is it untested and unknown and left to the manager to find out?

Same goes with my U-19 team. I somehow left their general training to be set by my Asst Manager for the first 3 months as I was busy with shifting things around, and now realizing in December that their training is set to Tactics with very high intensity, I took over manual control and set their general training to "Ball Control", as I figured that most of those kids are 18 and under and developing their technical attributes should be very important, but I will need a balance of Ball Control and Tactics as their attributes corresponding with Tactics training should also be developed at a young age as well.. What is the balance with switching general training focus from one to the other? What if I switch general training focus every two weeks? Every month? Every half a season? Every season?

And if so, how does one implement tactics with some attacking since they are two different training types, and since each take about 60 days to show its effect on the players, if I'm understanding correctly.

Not any more no.

Very unrealistic but I'll have to take it as this is a game.

For a more in depth thread which fully explains training and shows examples then this thread basically covers everything training related;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/380395-Ajax-When-Real-Life-Meets-Football-Manager-FM14

Ignore the team that doesn't matter but all the info it this thread does :)

I was reading that article as I saw your reply to this post indeed. Very insightful article and nice work. Thank you.

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I realize that their suggestions regarding individual training for certain players at the weekly staff meeting, and Asst. Mgr.'s tactical suggestions during the match should also be taken with a pinch of salt and not necessarily followed, right? I don't follow Asst. Mgr's suggestions during the matches anymore.

Yeah most people ignore the advice given as the staff don't really understand what you've created or are trying to do.

So does that mean one should keep using the same general training focus over the entire season or at least for a focused amount of time like, say, 60-90 days before changing it to something else? I was reading this website called "guide to football manager", which was also referred by someone here I believe, and on the training section, it suggests certain training drills in relation to certain tactical styles, such as:

Passing through the defense and Attacking with creative wingers: Tactics, with some Attacking

and

Running at defense: Ball Control, with some Fitness

The people who write these kind of guides do in very basic ways and don't actually understand the training module. Even 60-90 days will not see much change at all that's why its long term. You have to remember the general training options train specific sets of attributes so like any kind of training to see a big difference you need to give it time to be of any kind of benefit. If you are swapping and changing between the general options and its anything less than 60 days then you're actually wasting training. If you use individual training though its best to leave it on low balanced. If using general training then you shouldn't really use general training on anything else unless you are aiming for every single player to have specific attributes which in itself brings a lot of other issues as each player is different and will need different amounts of work on attributes not all the same. If not you waste training time and more importantly CA.

From your answer, I get that there is no absolute answer to these questions as one should try to implement what he sees fit, but how does one implement the general training focus as "this, with some of that" if the effects of general training is long term and shows itself after minimum 60 days or so?

Use general training if you have a long term vision and want every single player to work on the same attributes the general options trains.

The General training focuses you can train are:

  • Balanced
  • Fitness
  • Tactics
  • Ball Control
  • Defending
  • Attacking
  • Team Cohesion

All of the above focus on sets of attributes so lets break them down and take a look;

  • Fitness : Acceleration, Agility,Balance, Jumping, Natural Fitness, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Workrate
  • Tactics: Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Teamwork
  • Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique, Flair
  • Defending: Marking, Tackling, Positioning
  • Attacking: Crossing, Finishing, Long Shots, Passing, Creativity, Off the ball

So looking from this perspective, does my style of mixing the general training focus every other week or every week cause my training to yield ineffective results? Or is it untested and unknown and left to the manager to find out?

You're basically wasting every single moment of general training by swapping constantly.

Same goes with my U-19 team. I somehow left their general training to be set by my Asst Manager for the first 3 months as I was busy with shifting things around, and now realizing in December that their training is set to Tactics with very high intensity, I took over manual control and set their general training to "Ball Control", as I figured that most of those kids are 18 and under and developing their technical attributes should be very important, but I will need a balance of Ball Control and Tactics as their attributes corresponding with Tactics training should also be developed at a young age as well.. What is the balance with switching general training focus from one to the other? What if I switch general training focus every two weeks? Every month? Every half a season? Every season?

See above its long term.

And if so, how does one implement tactics with some attacking since they are two different training types, and since each take about 60 days to show its effect on the players, if I'm understanding correctly.

You're better off tailoring each individual player via individual training rather than being generalised and assuming every single player needs to be trained the same way.

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Yeah most people ignore the advice given as the staff don't really understand what you've created or are trying to do.

The people who write these kind of guides do in very basic ways and don't actually understand the training module. Even 60-90 days will not see much change at all that's why its long term. You have to remember the general training options train specific sets of attributes so like any kind of training to see a big difference you need to give it time to be of any kind of benefit. If you are swapping and changing between the general options and its anything less than 60 days then you're actually wasting training. If you use individual training though its best to leave it on low balanced. If using general training then you shouldn't really use general training on anything else unless you are aiming for every single player to have specific attributes which in itself brings a lot of other issues as each player is different and will need different amounts of work on attributes not all the same. If not you waste training time and more importantly CA.

Use general training if you have a long term vision and want every single player to work on the same attributes the general options trains.

The General training focuses you can train are:

  • Balanced
  • Fitness
  • Tactics
  • Ball Control
  • Defending
  • Attacking
  • Team Cohesion

All of the above focus on sets of attributes so lets break them down and take a look;

  • Fitness : Acceleration, Agility,Balance, Jumping, Natural Fitness, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Workrate
  • Tactics: Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Teamwork
  • Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique, Flair
  • Defending: Marking, Tackling, Positioning
  • Attacking: Crossing, Finishing, Long Shots, Passing, Creativity, Off the ball

You're basically wasting every single moment of general training by swapping constantly.

See above its long term.

You're better off tailoring each individual player via individual training rather than being generalised and assuming every single player needs to be trained the same way.

This is completely fascinating and a real insight. Absolutely loving this post.

If I am reading this correctly (and my recent history in that is not the best :p), it leads me to think that if I have an individual training plan for each of my players then ideally General Training should be left blank so as not to use up the precious CA which the individual training plans are looking to fill. Obviously we can't leave General Training blank, therefore Balanced/Low is the best compromise solution.

That's a real thunder bolt moment, nice one Cleon.

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It's all explained in the Ajax thread.

But yeah if you use individual training you should have general training set to balance and on low to ensure all the training time is spent on individual training. It also means work load won't be too demanding. But if you keep general training higher you risk more injuries due to how demanding it will be.

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Thank you for the above suggestions as it makes many things clear.. I suppose all that also applies to pre-season and the "team cohesion" focus as well, where we need to apply balanced-low/normal training in pre-season, and if we use team cohesion team training focus, it also needs to be long termi like 60 days at least..?

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No as team cohesion doesn't train attributes it just gels the team. So the time you need to train that varies, you need to check the assistants feedback to see how well the side are gelled. When they have gelled then its a pointless focus and does nothing.

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No as team cohesion doesn't train attributes it just gels the team. So the time you need to train that varies, you need to check the assistants feedback to see how well the side are gelled. When they have gelled then its a pointless focus and does nothing.

Thank you.. Balanced team focus seem to be working better, I think.

If I understand you correctly, the balanced team focus + individual focus per each player is in a way similar to custom training of certain groups of players (defenders, forwards, midfielders, etc) separately in the older versions of the game (like in FM 2008), except that maybe this is a bit more role/attribute specific.

How long does a player need to train for a specific individual training focus to see complete effects before changing the individual focus to something else? (from specific attribute to another, or from a role focus to something else)?

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Hi! Interesting thread, Cleon is spreading insights as usual.

Sorry to hijack this but I have a question about training/match tactics.

Even though the team is fluid with my tactics, my ass. man may say things like: 'XX is used to play a more direct game than asked today' or vice versa.

Is this something that will go away after enough matches with these tactics or is it something I'll have to accept? I thought that since they are fluid in the tactic this shouldn't be a problem.

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