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Tiki Taka - At a waypoint. Evolution or revolution ahead?


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Have any of you experimented with this kind of tactic but with very low tempo? I created my own tactic using this thread as inspiration. My players have some different instructions but the biggest difference is that I use very low tempo. This allows me to dominate the ball and use more patient build up play. It's working pretty well on the whole.

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hi,

many thanks for taking the time to post your tactic and maintain your posts. I have tried your tactic with man utd (apologies!). all is going every well at home, but away from home I have 1 win in 7 games (and lost 6-2 to Liverpool - they played a narrow 4312 and coutinhio killed me in the hole - even though I put the HB and DM and asked to man mark). any ideas why away from home is so bad?

for info, I won the league in my first two seasons.

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hi,

many thanks for taking the time to post your tactic and maintain your posts. I have tried your tactic with man utd (apologies!). all is going every well at home, but away from home I have 1 win in 7 games (and lost 6-2 to Liverpool - they played a narrow 4312 and coutinhio killed me in the hole - even though I put the HB and DM and asked to man mark). any ideas why away from home is so bad?

for info, I won the league in my first two seasons.

Hi mate

Can you post your first choice team and their positions pls - will help a lot

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Hi mate

Can you post your first choice team and their positions pls - will help a lot

thanks for taking the time to reply

team is

de gea SK D

Rafael - WB S

Rojo & Jones CD D

Shaw - WB S

Iturraspe HB D

Verratti & Tielemans CM S

Di Maria (l) & Malcom ® WTM A

Kenendy DLF S

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thanks for taking the time to reply

team is

de gea SK D

Rafael - WB S

Rojo & Jones CD D

Shaw - WB S

Iturraspe HB D

Verratti & Tielemans CM S

Di Maria (l) & Malcom ® WTM A

Kenendy DLF S

I've found the 2 general rules of thumb to make sure this tactic works well are (a) technical ability and (b) fitness

(a) technical players with good passing, technique, composure, vision (flair for the front 3), decisions, first touch ... to name but a few

(b) stamina, natural fitness, work rate, teamwork

I had to sell/drop a few seemingly great players (Xavi, Iniesta, David Silva .. Managing Spain as well as Barca) who simply couldn't adapt to the tactic and were needing to be subbed after less than an hour as they were at less than 70% fitness having started at 95%+.

Its an energy zapping tactic so players who have 14+ stamina as a minimum as par for the course .. or at least I've found this anyway.

Also if you want to pass the ball effectively and dominate the opposition you need players in CM who are technically gifted - so a Thiago, Rafinha, or Fabregas using 3 obvious examples.

You could even argue that your HB/DM doesn't necessarily need to be an enforcer - Busquets passing is better than his tackling after all.

Either way I haven't found the need to change the tactic away from home ... against big teams I sometimes use the oppositions instructions for maybe wingers - weaker foot etc but that's about it

Maybe try the Wide Target Men as Ramdeuters

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I've found the 2 general rules of thumb to make sure this tactic works well are (a) technical ability and (b) fitness

(a) technical players with good passing, technique, composure, vision (flair for the front 3), decisions, first touch ... to name but a few

(b) stamina, natural fitness, work rate, teamwork

I had to sell/drop a few seemingly great players (Xavi, Iniesta, David Silva .. Managing Spain as well as Barca) who simply couldn't adapt to the tactic and were needing to be subbed after less than an hour as they were at less than 70% fitness having started at 95%+.

Its an energy zapping tactic so players who have 14+ stamina as a minimum as par for the course .. or at least I've found this anyway.

Also if you want to pass the ball effectively and dominate the opposition you need players in CM who are technically gifted - so a Thiago, Rafinha, or Fabregas using 3 obvious examples.

You could even argue that your HB/DM doesn't necessarily need to be an enforcer - Busquets passing is better than his tackling after all.

Either way I haven't found the need to change the tactic away from home ... against big teams I sometimes use the oppositions instructions for maybe wingers - weaker foot etc but that's about it

Maybe try the Wide Target Men as Ramdeuters

many thanks for the advice, I will go through my squad and look at the stats. I read earlier about the problem of teams playing narrow (i.e. the 4312 formation with 3 CMs, a AMC and 2 FCs). has anyone found a way to counteract this, aside from changing the HB to a DM? (which I still struggled with).

Lee

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Just to add to my question above regarding tempo, my version of this tactic with a tweak here and there and 'Very Low Tempo' is destructive. I have tested it with Liverpool and Barca so far (I doubt it would work for lesser teams) and I am wiping the floor with the opposition and cruising to the title in both leagues, first season, no signings. I have 60-65% possession in most games and tons of shots.

Not sure whether you all feel that the tempo being low goes against the philosophy but for me I am enjoying watching my team patiently holding the ball before playing the right pass. It leads to lovely football at times.

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many thanks for the advice, I will go through my squad and look at the stats. I read earlier about the problem of teams playing narrow (i.e. the 4312 formation with 3 CMs, a AMC and 2 FCs). has anyone found a way to counteract this, aside from changing the HB to a DM? (which I still struggled with).

Lee

No worries mate

Post 149 from Yonko tells you all you need to know really in terms of what you want from as many as your team as possible

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  • 2 weeks later...

Quick question for anyone using this or other versions of the tactic.

I bought 3 youth players - all strikers.

One has the potential for 17+ passing and vision plus decent stats most of the standard technical attributes so I'm retraining him as a CM.

Another has very good dribbling, crossing and finishing - so retraining in both flanks as an AM with a view to him becoming a Ramdeuteur.

The final guy is the "problem" ....

He has 18 shooting at 16 years old .... But less than 8 for passing, vision, flair, dribbling, crossing and generally not great technically. In other words he doesn't fit the tactic.

So I'm left pondering if I should loan him out for a few season where I'm sure he'd do really well as a poacher (he got 48 goals from 34 games in my U19s last season as a 15 year old) .... See his value increase ... Then cash in in him.

Is this the right approach?

Round pegs and square holes and all that :)

Has anyone else had a similar experience or is this effectively my fault for buying a someone who ultimately doesn't fit the type of player I most commonly use ?

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Interesting notes and things I've observed: CM-attack usually makes more passes and has higher completion rate than the CM-support (weird!). Even more odd, CM-support has scored more goals than CM-attack - Xavi and Rakitic have 12 goals between them (Xavi has 3 from PKs, if I remember correctly), while Iniesta and Rafinha have only less than 5, with Iniesta not scoring at all. Yet more interestingly, the CM-attack has made slightly more assists than the CM-support. Xavi followed by Rakitic are my corner takers, while Iniesta/Rafinha are set up to lurk outside the penalty box.

I found that it happens on my game as well, what I think is that because we both playing a pressing short passing game, the opponent's penalty area will be so congest so most assist will be cut-back pass to the edge of the box instead of forward through pass into the box.

CMa will likely to push up and link with the front 3, usually marked and hard to take a clear shot.

While CMs will stay away from the box, and will be free to take a shot when the ball cut-back to him.

I also found that my player always try to dribble to the flank even as a IF and have "Cut inside with ball" as PPM if he has stronger foot the same side as he is playing.

While I don't know how to correct it, I found that IWB help alot as if the wide man cut in he will stay wide but the wide man refused to cut in then he will take that space.

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  • 1 month later...

Just struggled in 2 successive games against 2 different formations

4-2-3-1-2 - Juventus CL

3 CMS

AMC

2 CFs

4-3-2-1 - R Madrid La Liga

Again 3 CMS

2 AMCs

CF

So my spare man that the HB/DM creates is lost as its effectively 3 v 3.

Any ideas (based on this tactic) how to combat this?

Cheers

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