APEX PREDATOR for 15.2. League = 102 points, 118 Goals.... playing 442

[Poize]

Done well with Liverpool in first season with this.

4th in League, but only 1 points off the title. Unfortunately had a poor run of form and lost 2/3 games in a row which cost me.

Won Champions League - beating Barca 3-2

Won Carling Cup

Final of FA Cup

So all went well. Only bought in Valdes during the first season.

Second season is starting off ropey however...won all my warm up games. Lost opening 3 games in a row to Man Utd, Chelsea and Southampton. Have only bought in 1 player, so can't say it's unbalanced the squad, but will progress with the tactic.

It seems you do really need highly technical people within your team for this to be a complete success due to the possession and passing setup. I personally find players dither too much around the edge of the box instead of taking the shot

[WillyBroadband]

Mr Rosler, I've been a fan of your tactics for a while now but this has to be the best I've used ever! 5th season with Arsenal and won the league, FA Cup & Champions League. Cruised all three tbh.

120 league goals!

After drawing the group of death, I didn't think I would get out of let alone win the whole thing.

Star of the show Romelu Lukaku, I've never in my FM life had a striker perform this amazingly. 63 goals in 50 games?! As the CF/Support.

Cannot thank you enough for this tactic dude.

[muggiSi]

Great plug n play tatic, using arsenal and absolutely bossing every game! for those who can sign him gaston gil is a fantastic BWM for this formation! looking for other peoples input on forwards though as have munir,welbeck and giroud but looking for next season :-)

[CBP87]

Great plug n play tatic, using arsenal and absolutely bossing every game! for those who can sign him gaston gil is a fantastic BWM for this formation! looking for other peoples input on forwards though as have munir,welbeck and giroud but looking for next season :-)

gabriel barbosa is a beast as AF

[WillyBroadband]

Great plug n play tatic, using arsenal and absolutely bossing every game! for those who can sign him gaston gil is a fantastic BWM for this formation! looking for other peoples input on forwards though as have munir,welbeck and giroud but looking for next season :-)

Dude, Romelu Lukaku as the Complete Forward/Support is unreal. He'll probably break Thierry Henry's goalscoring record if I carry on my save. Him & Welbeck together are brilliant.

[bean824]

Have to say that this tactic has not worked for me at all. I've played 9, won 3 drawn 3 lost three but all of those games have been disappointing. When I've lost I've been thrashed, when I've drawn I've dropped leads and when I've won I've always conceeded first and then gone mad at my team at HT and turned it around. I don't understand how everyone else are getting such good results!

Going to have to try something else I think.

[Mark6880]

This tactic is by far the best I have found. I started as Norwich City in the Championship and managed to go the whole season unbeaten in the league drawing 6 games and winning everything else. Got knocked out of all cup competitions against prem teams but I guess thats to be expected. Now started my second season (in the prem) and got a 4-1 win at home against Liverpool. Unfortunately everything went down hill after that as I sold a young player I was never going to use and now the whole squad has complained about my decision. Morale is at an all time low and I'm started to lose games I should really be winning especially home games. Morale is very important with this tactic to keep winning runs going.

The wingers with this tactic are crucial. I had Elliott Bennett on the right and Nathan Redmond on the left sometimes alternating with young Josh Murphy. All of them scored 10 goals + and are wanted by bigger clubs. I doubt I'll manage to hold on to them as they have all said they want me to accept bids for them should they come in so I'm expecting the team to be even more unsettled now.

Cameron Jerome upfront with my new signing Britt Assombalonga has worked out reasonably well.

My question to Mr Rosler is has anyone tested how far you can go successfully with this tactic before you 'get found out'?

[Mark6880]

gabriel barbosa is a beast as AF

CBP87 - Do you play barbosa from the first season if you purchased him then? I wondered whether he might be too young to throw straight away? I just bought him on one of my long term saves as everyone seems to be raving about him on here.....

[Mr U Rosler]

Mark6880. Opponents don't 'learn' tactics they just set up differently depending on your reputation in relation to their own.

Thats why you can perform well as an underdog for a season with certain tactics but struggle in second season as teams now 'park the bus' as they now fear you more and your tactic might not be suited to breaking down stubborn teams.

This tactic seems to perform well enough for teams of all levels so you shouldnt have many problems as long as you don't upset your squad and are realistic about your aims.

[Terry01234]

Amazing tactic Mr Rosler! Decided to try it out with West Ham, with fantastic results. No cup wins, but managed to win the premier league using the same squad I started with (apart from signing Valdes mid season). Sakho, Valencia, Downing & Zarate outstanding.

[Lambie\'s Lovechild]

Cant get this to come even close to working.

Its immense at scoring goals. I mean, no club in the division (conference national) can keep a clean sheet against us. However at the back, im shipping 6 or 7 goals a game.

I cant put all of that down to the defenders, because the tactic is susceptible to balls over the top. Its a lottery whether im going to win 4-3 or get humped 7-2.

[Lumi]

Just finished my first season with Stoke using this tactic. With great results! Finished 3rd in PL and won the FA-cup (after beating A Villa in the final)! Did not sign any new players.

[Mr U Rosler]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Not had a go non-league yet, still looking at a 4132 and will test that in conference South as and when its ready.

[MADA]

how is it going with the 4-1-3-2 uwe?

[Mr U Rosler]

how is it going with the 4-1-3-2 uwe?

Struggling to replicate the performance of the 442. Keep coming in at around 90 points/99 goals with Man City which is considerably worse than my results with Apex although more than good enough for comfortable league wins.

My last test saw Aguero score 50 of our 99 league goals playing as an Advanced Forward, sounds good but is actually a worry for me as you are overly reliant on 1 player/postion (doesn't matter who played there, most of the chances fall to the advanced forward), if he has a bad game you're in trouble.

The beauty of Apex is that goals are spread around both strikers and the wide midfielders so if someone misses a few someone will likely step up, its one of the hidden strengths of the tactic.

Focused on tweaking the attacking play so the goals are spread around the team more.

It potentially is defensively better and might suit non league/lower teams more.

[Lambie\'s Lovechild]

One of the limitations I see in Apex is that when the option is there for a wide player to beat a fullback (where he has space, and the pace, to get to the byeline), he will instinctively turn inside to look for a short pass. It limits the counter attacking potential because the midfielders need to be really, really quick to break out and support him, or the defence will get back and into shape.

The majority of goals seem to come from slow build up play from the back, but I wonder, is it that I need faster central mids, or can the wide players be tweaked to beat their man or make a killer pass when they're on a counter attack?

I've also found that my best results seem to come when I tell the team to play a rigid counter instead of a fluid control. Again this might be related to the quality of players in Conference National, but do you have any ideas on how to be more defensively solid without that approach?

[Concho]

This is by far the best tactic I've used so far, got my Everton side 2nd in season 1 with no signings, only 2 defeats. Also worked well if I pulled the complete striker back to AMC (AP/A) to accomodate Barkley, which I used as tactic 2, and my third one I pulled both CM's back to DM's, the complete striker to AMC, and put both full backs to WB/A and kept everyting else the same, just to suit my squad a bit more and it still worked really well. I rotated all three through the season around injuries.

Great tactic

[Mr U Rosler]

One of the limitations I see in Apex is that when the option is there for a wide player to beat a fullback (where he has space' date=' and the pace, to get to the byeline), he will instinctively turn inside to look for a short pass. It limits the counter attacking potential because the midfielders need to be really, really quick to break out and support him, or the defence will get back and into shape.

The majority of goals seem to come from slow build up play from the back, but I wonder, is it that I need faster central mids, or can the wide players be tweaked to beat their man or make a killer pass when they're on a counter attack?

I've also found that my best results seem to come when I tell the team to play a rigid counter instead of a fluid control. Again this might be related to the quality of players in Conference National, but do you have any ideas on how to be more defensively solid without that approach?[/quote']

Goal scoring in general is not really an issue as a lot of people are routinely posting 100+ league goals a season. They way the ME currently works you do end up against massed defences a lot of the time but that's the way it is at the moment, as long as we're regularly breaking thru then i guess thats ok.

a Counter Attack will 'trigger' regardless of your choice in mentalities, its inbuilt into the ME to occur when a favourable situation arises.

Its possible that a fluid approach works better with more gifted players and that something structured is more effective with less talented players.

One thing i've found is that even a small tweak can have strong negative effect on performance.

[Kenty7]

Just started a fresh go with Nottingham Forest, signed some great players for the championship in Lucas Romero, Gaston Gil Romero and Carlos Fierro (Good old "I'll pay you on 48 months then shall I? I still failed FFP and got fined...!). As you might guess, I absolutely smashed the league, going unbeaten for the Championship season, my best results yet.

Played 46, Won 42, drew 4 and lost 0. Scored 164 goals at concession of 40. 130 points, massive! Fierro scored me 53 goals in all competitions from 48 games with Assombalonga scoring 37 from 37 starts and 2 from the bench. Currently top of the Prem 14 games in on goal difference. Struggled a bit against the bigger sides but generally I see continental qualification on the horizon here.

This tactic is amazing.

[Drads]

Seem to be really struggling away from home (Spurs 1st season) against the 'smaller' teams - struggling to create chances and conceding also. Any suggestions, switching to counter doesn't seem to help. Cheers

[CBP87]

tried this tactic in pretty much every (big) league across europe and it works wonders, even with smaller teams, stick to the instructions given on here and make sure your tactic is fluid and you will be sorted, ive said it many times, this tactic is the bomb, great work Mr U

[CBP87]

Seem to be really struggling away from home (Spurs 1st season) against the 'smaller' teams - struggling to create chances and conceding also. Any suggestions, switching to counter doesn't seem to help. Cheers

How fluid is the tactic? how far into the season are you? whats your team chemistry like?

[Drads]

How fluid is the tactic? how far into the season are you? whats your team chemistry like?

That's the thing, 2/3 through the season, in touch with the leaders, tactic is fluid, morale good and all of a sudden getting pounded away from home. Cannot work it out!

[Lambie\'s Lovechild]

Goal scoring in general is not really an issue as a lot of people are routinely posting 100+ league goals a season. They way the ME currently works you do end up against massed defences a lot of the time but that's the way it is at the moment, as long as we're regularly breaking thru then i guess thats ok.

a Counter Attack will 'trigger' regardless of your choice in mentalities, its inbuilt into the ME to occur when a favourable situation arises.

Its possible that a fluid approach works better with more gifted players and that something structured is more effective with less talented players.

One thing i've found is that even a small tweak can have strong negative effect on performance.

What I might do then, since I run mainly lower league games, is try running the tactic with as Structured rather than a Fluid approach. Ill give some feedback after ive run it the rest of the season

[Drads]

That's the thing, 2/3 through the season, in touch with the leaders, tactic is fluid, morale good and all of a sudden getting pounded away from home. Cannot work it out!

Now conceding goals all over the place and not creating chances, have a couple of good wins, morale high, no complacency then an absolute shambles - any team playing 4-4-1-1 just seems to batter us. Tres frustrating!

[shirajzl]

Now conceding goals all over the place and not creating chances, have a couple of good wins, morale high, no complacency then an absolute shambles - any team playing 4-4-1-1 just seems to batter us. Tres frustrating!

I've explained what's the major problem with this tactic in post no. 138. It's a good, solid tactic, but it relies far too much on BWM duo being able to perfectly time and execute their closing down.

I've had major ups and downs with this tactic, far from the required consistency. It's probably down to the nature of 442, as well.

[Wyer]

Been using this tactic for my long save.

Won the Champions League with Aston Villa, Parma and Real Sociedad during a 13 year save.

[Drads]

I've explained what's the major problem with this tactic in post no. 138. It's a good, solid tactic, but it relies far too much on BWM duo being able to perfectly time and execute their closing down.

I've had major ups and downs with this tactic, far from the required consistency. It's probably down to the nature of 442, as well.

Weirdest thing. Game crashed (luckily as I hadn't saved all the crap results were lost!) since I loaded up again been unstoppable....

[Lambie\'s Lovechild]

Its possible that a fluid approach works better with more gifted players and that something structured is more effective with less talented players.

So this was what I was testing here, as it struck a chord as having worked relatively well in previous FM versions.

So this was the results up until 1st January. The tactic has been used for 18 months now, and so its fluent, but performances are inconsistent. Even with the window coming up, I wasnt making any major acquisitions (no cash), so the playing staff didnt alter much between the New year and the end of the season.

The tweak was made, to move the squad from "Fluid" to "Structured" and this was the end result.

It clearly works better for limited players. What surprised me (although it shouldnt have) was how much better the defence performed. There are still issues, as you say, with massed defences, but theres no way around that at lower levels when you dont have the technically gifted players to make the killer pass. It was still susceptible to long balls, but thats just the limitations of the players at this level rather than the tactic itself resulting in over-committed defences.

[fyrefuze]

I used this tactic for sometime now in the second half of my fulham save (1st season). I have bought Kranevitter, GG Romero, Balanta and I had P Roberts, G Williams and B Ruiz, perfect players for this tactic I guess. though no good AF but Woodrow did the job for me.

Pros:

* High scoring Tactic, must have against inferior teams

* Good with defensive Fullbacks (not so good attacking stats). I used Hoogland and Bodurow primarily as my right full back but both of the chipped in some assists.

Cons:

* Difficult (close to impossible) to keep clean sheets, AI keeps on finding space behind your defence though Balanta as covering CB did managed to stop a few. I guess need to buy another fast CB before going into EPL

* Injury Prone, you would need to have good cover for each position to fill for injuries and fatigue. The fixture list in Championship is not helping. "Close down more" and "get stuck in" demands a lot from young championship players.

* Definitely to be avoided against big EPL teams, especially the ones with quick stickers. I lost 6-2, 4-1 to Man Utd and Chelsea in Cup matches.

*

[CBP87]

I used this tactic for sometime now in the second half of my fulham save (1st season). I have bought Kranevitter, GG Romero, Balanta and I had P Roberts, G Williams and B Ruiz, perfect players for this tactic I guess. though no good AF but Woodrow did the job for me.

Pros:

* High scoring Tactic, must have against inferior teams

* Good with defensive Fullbacks (not so good attacking stats). I used Hoogland and Bodurow primarily as my right full back but both of the chipped in some assists.

Cons:

* Difficult (close to impossible) to keep clean sheets, AI keeps on finding space behind your defence though Balanta as covering CB did managed to stop a few. I guess need to buy another fast CB before going into EPL

* Injury Prone, you would need to have good cover for each position to fill for injuries and fatigue. The fixture list in Championship is not helping. "Close down more" and "get stuck in" demands a lot from young championship players.

* Definitely to be avoided against big EPL teams, especially the ones with quick stickers. I lost 6-2, 4-1 to Man Utd and Chelsea in Cup matches.

*

Change your match prep to defensive positioning and bear in mind whilst your tactic is becoming fluid you should have your training on team cohesion on very high the slider all the way to left and rest after match unticked, so your more likely going to have a lot of injuries, you will find though ever season after you reduce the injuries because your tactic will become fluid quicker, just make sure once fluid in all areas, you put it on balanced average slider two notches to from the left side and tick rest after match, this should do the trick

[gredawarha1979]

Just purchased FM15 over the Christmas period after it was on sale.

First thing I did was check out Mr Rosler's latest tactic. Whether they work or don't work I always approeciate the detail that goes into your threads, Mr Rosler I salute you!

Started off my first save with Leeds Utd. Approcahing Christmas and I am in the playoffs, was second but got a thumping from Wolves and a lost four on the trot to teams around me. Back to wining ways though. Artenucci is doing well in the attack. Like many have previously mentioned I am finding that sometimes I get hit hard with balls over the top.

[CBP87]

Just purchased FM15 over the Christmas period after it was on sale.

First thing I did was check out Mr Rosler's latest tactic. Whether they work or don't work I always approeciate the detail that goes into your threads, Mr Rosler I salute you!

Started off my first save with Leeds Utd. Approcahing Christmas and I am in the playoffs, was second but got a thumping from Wolves and a lost four on the trot to teams around me. Back to wining ways though. Artenucci is doing well in the attack. Like many have previously mentioned I am finding that sometimes I get hit hard with balls over the top.

this isnt aim at you but the problem of the ball over the top, i dont concede many from this, is your fastest CB at cover? make sure he has pace too

[gredawarha1979]

this isnt aim at you but the problem of the ball over the top, i dont concede many from this, is your fastest CB at cover? make sure he has pace too

Thanks for the tip I will have a look see what my CB pace is like.

[pemu]

Great tacttic!

Six seasons with Tottenham and five times I won Premier League.

[mezzair]

So this was what I was testing here' date=' as it struck a chord as having worked relatively well in previous FM versions.

So this was the results up until 1st January. The tactic has been used for 18 months now, and so its fluent, but performances are inconsistent. Even with the window coming up, I wasnt making any major acquisitions (no cash), so the playing staff didnt alter much between the New year and the end of the season.

[img']http://imageshack.com/a/img908/7071/vyjmF1.jpg[/img]

The tweak was made, to move the squad from "Fluid" to "Structured" and this was the end result.

It clearly works better for limited players. What surprised me (although it shouldnt have) was how much better the defence performed. There are still issues, as you say, with massed defences, but theres no way around that at lower levels when you dont have the technically gifted players to make the killer pass. It was still susceptible to long balls, but thats just the limitations of the players at this level rather than the tactic itself resulting in over-committed defences.

Just to agree with this, even with my Newcastle side - I really struggle against the top teams, which also produced some annoy results when we were big favourites. This tweak as mentioned has improved the defensive stability 10 fold.

[CBP87]

a few players i would recommend buying for this formation (you probably all know of anyways) is Luka Jovic, Kramaric and Zivkovic, train these players for the positions and they become beasts, bought Zivkovic for 3.8 mil and he is now worth 26 mil.

Im Bolton by the way, so if he has developed like that at Bolton, who knows how much he would be at a top club

[Jim-Beam]

This tactic is unreal, its currently my preferred away tactic and some outstanding results have been achieved!

[WillyBroadband]

Just thought I would give you more feedback dude.. here is the league table after my first season as Nottingham Forest boss. Blew me away! Won the league with 7 games to spare and broke 4-5 Championship records.

[CBP87]

just sold Zivkovic to City for 39 million, definitely worth buying

[jinxwhitsmith]

Great tactic. pi$$ed the championship with Wolves and then had an amazing season in the prem finishing 4th!! Good work

[paul7875]

mr rosler have you had any luck with the new 4132 formation you are making or is on back burner till next patch

[Mr U Rosler]

mr rosler have you had any luck with the new 4132 formation you are making or is on back burner till next patch

Can't get anything performing to the level of AP to be honest so no point releasing anything at this point.

Will wait for final update in feb before reviewing.

[gredawarha1979]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Not had a go non-league yet, still looking at a 4132 and will test that in conference South as and when its ready.

Little bit more feedback for you Mr Rosler. First season with Leeds Utd. No signings. Finished second in the Championship Won 25 Drew 10 Lost 11 For 88 Against 56 GD 32 Points 85.

Spent most of the season in the play offs with the occasional dip out and had a good run toward the end of the season rising to second with three games to play. Managed to hold on for automatic promotion.

No idea how others have found Leeds to be nor where Leeds should finish but obviously pleased to be back int he Premiership. I'm sure you or others can pass comment on the stats but my unscientific review of the season is that we were excellent going forward but a but poor at the back. Early on i got spanked by some of the top teams but doing well against the sides around me and below. Toward the end I was taking early leads only to worry as I began to let goals in.

Aidan White and Sam Byram where excellent in the wide midfield position, Noel Hunt top scored with 23 goals and was yet my lowest average rating (of those that played regularly) with a rating of 7.10 Artenucci chipped in with 16 and a rating of 7.45. Sam Byram got 10 goals, 11 assists and a rating 7.39. Aidan White 13 goals, 13 assists and 7.46.

Signed:

Juan Carlos GK

Sebastien De Maio CB

Francis Coquelin CM

Connor Wickham CF

Watne Routledge RM

So now to survive the Premiership!

[Yerko van Basten]

Best tactic so far...tested 6 different but yours Mr U Rosler rocks.

Finished 4th in Seria A with Chievo, only 1 point behind 3rd Inter so i missed CL but will play in Euro liga next year and media prediction was 18th and start playing with your tactic late in november. Have mediocre players, only Paloschi, Birsa and Izco are good, bought cd marko suler from maribor, mc domen crnigoj from Koper and martin odegaard and put him to train MR wide midfielder. Both him and birsa (ML) played very well, birsa was clubs topgoalscorer scored 18 goals, best assistant and 2nd Serie A averige player. Now i get 13M for transfers, dont know yet what to do... buy birsa for 9M (loan from AC Milan) or buy some cheaper ML... need 1cd, lb, ml and striker

[wkdsoul]

went back to this last night in my AFC wimbledon game, was less than favourite in a league game against peterboro, smashed em 4-1 (will post shot later). Akinfewa in the CF (s) was great and some bulgarian kid making his debut bagged 2, made 2 in the AF.

only issue i have is the energy, my team was pretty much fully fit before but screwed after, might have to tweak this down a bit for LLM, but still a great tactic. needs more coverage (on fm base anyway).

[Time_Consumer]

Great tactic, mate! Using it with Atletico, works superb with Griezmann and Arda on the wings.

I'm currently working on two alternate versions, one dropping the AF for a DM, probably an anchor man, to shut down games or go vs. big opponents. Another version with the CF dropped to AM as a Treq, without TIs "play narrower", to draw the opponent's defence and create space for the Treq to work in. Just to have an alternative in case your tactic doesn't work in a few matches. Will see how it works.

[wkdsoul]

went back to this last night in my AFC wimbledon game, was less than favourite in a league game against peterboro, smashed em 4-1 (will post shot later). Akinfewa in the CF (s) was great and some bulgarian kid making his debut bagged 2, made 2 in the AF.

only issue i have is the energy, my team was pretty much fully fit before but screwed after, might have to tweak this down a bit for LLM, but still a great tactic. needs more coverage (on fm base anyway).

my bad, i thought they were a better team in my league, nope cup game... they are a division above!

[Robbie Hood]

This tactic is still working great for me! One question for mister U Rosler: do you think that not leaving a striker upfront on defending corners makes a difference to the defending? Is this something that you have tinkered with and come to the conclusion that it´s not worth leaving a striker up front?

[Mr U Rosler]

This tactic is still working great for me! One question for mister U Rosler: do you think that not leaving a striker upfront on defending corners makes a difference to the defending? Is this something that you have tinkered with and come to the conclusion that it´s not worth leaving a striker up front?

My main priority on defending corners was not conceding very many. When i left a striker up front i noticed he didn't seem to react to the ball as quickly as the defenders around him so contributed very little. Thought an extra body in the box is better.