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Neil Brock

Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.2.1

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Are you tired of unstable weather?

Here's a deal for you.

Become a football manager.

Take on a few jobs and get sacked.

After a while you will get the grand prize of stable and predictable Italian weather, while managing Cittadella:

7982bd1b97e02c469ecef45d1b2997dc.png

The weather never changes, apart from one week a year. The week of December 6th.

Get your stuff ready and play today.

You never have to complain about crappy weather ever again :thup:

PS!!!

As a bonus. We'll throw in some extra predictable weather certain years (depending on the deal),

keeping it the same temperature all year around apart from one day.

The bonus-bonus day can be any day of the year. No certainty it'll be the week of December 6th.

168be16151ac4f3882b55b4a40be2a9c.png

7afd0587ba594517f453486310d8decc.png

Enjoy! Have fun! Be a football manager today.

Be crap at it and you'll enjoy stable-weathered Italy.....eventually.

Sponsored by Sonny Terry Able.

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This forum could use a 'gripes' thread. Somewhere I could complain about having six players missing for an FA Cup 6th round replay because it's scheduled the day after a South American World Cup qualifier matchday, and for all those other things that aren't bugs, aren't problems with the game but are incredibly annoying.

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This forum could use a 'gripes' thread. Somewhere I could complain about having six players missing for an FA Cup 6th round replay because it's scheduled the day after a South American World Cup qualifier matchday, and for all those other things that aren't bugs, aren't problems with the game but are incredibly annoying.

You could start one of these threads in this forum. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/353869-I-ll-tell-you-what-s-getting-my-goat-just-now-(reprise)

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Would like to hear some opinions on this. I'll start with this wonderful quote of another thread of old I found when searching the forums for something.

I would, however, agree that every system has the tendency to get the ball forward out of defence slightly too quickly, which is a British disease.

You have to watch matches in full, preferably in one of the less aggressive mentalities. Does anybody agree that there is a tendency that once the ball has crossed the midfield-line, there is too rarely a back-pass made to the centre backs anymore? This is something you get to see in football all the time: Play breaks down on the right flank, the right winger plays it back to the right defender, who passes it back to the right centre back, who then passes it to his colleague, maybe they'll interchange some passes back and forth and wait for the opening, and start something new. Or the pass it made all the way back, and the centre backs are involved in getting the ball to the opposite flank in similar fashion -- essentially an entire side is being involved in an attempt to unbalance the opponent's defending shape. It's not that there wouldn't be back passes, obviously more the less aggressive mentality you chose. It's also not as if you wouldn't be able to play a far more possession based game (and vice versa). But you don't much get to see that on FM, if any.

It's gotten much better throughout the years (I suggest anybody to re-install FM 2006 or 2007ish and compare). Still in FM there is that tendency, even on contain, that play rarely goes all the way back again and a move is being build up all from all the way back. Unless they're being forced to do and out of alternative options, there is also little passing interchanges in between the centre backs. Your perception of this will likely be hugely shaped by the kind of football you watch (I watch and enjoy the end to end action of your average Championship match myself), but obviously it's an altogether thing to watching, well, Bayern bloody Munich, and I mean that in terms of style. I wish at least on the lesser aggressive spectrum of mentalitites, such would happen more frequenlty, and more pronounced as it does now. As it always has. In parts it might have to do with the CB's positioning. When the side is in possession, they eventually end up pushing up to the half-way line, and typically, that is also where the opposing forward sits. Or indeed the opposing forwards. As the CB's don't hugely try to keep a distance, pull back or drift outfield and make themselves available for a possible pass, a back pass frequently would be a risky choice for any player.

Apart of that, I wish "contain" as the most "extreme" mentality option was more risk-averse as it is now in general. In parts depending on your role and duty structuring and thus positioning, you will still see moves of two or three passes that end up right in the opponent's third and the side taking shots. In any case, there is a certain bias for forward passes (and options) in here too, and a bias to to get the ball out of defense, regardless of any team instructions. Don't know if this was patched a little, however even going more cautious plus possession TIs it is hard to keep the ball deep for prolonged sequences of play (Spain, Barca, Bayern). Naturally it doesn't help much that there's little, if any signifcant overlap in between the mentalities and a player's decision to engage in dribblings.

I

[*]Last season saw Mesut Ozil average 4.71 tackles won per game, while Sterling has averaged over 2.5 the past two years. I understand that a player of their caliber may make a good tackle now and then, but to perform like that with such consistency seems a bit off to me. I mean, to go against Ozil and have him boss the midfield against the likes of Lucas Romero and Matic is a bit annoying.

Özil may average 4 tackles per game. But if you look through your league's statistics, you'll find he likely won't make the top 100 in terms of tackles/game. That is because defending on FM has always been overly depending on successful tackles. Arguably re-shaping that will be one of the big next evolutionary steps and probably take a huge re-write of parts of the code, such as the collision avoidance did a couple of seaons ago (up until FM 2013 players when off the ball could run straight through their markers). Until then it's no deal breaker, in my opinion. Just a thing to keep in mind when looking at tackling stats. :-)

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I think a distinction between engine exploiting tactics and realistic footballing tactics is important for a balanced perspective and to see that if you’re a football fan and want to set your team up to play a certain way then this engine is doing that. Yes there may be slight difficulty in containing tactics and attacking high lines not being punished cos of restrictions of finishing when players are clean through but broadly speaking it’s in a very good place tactically.

I agree with you in everything you said. the ME is as close as representing real football as never before. there's one thing you didn't mention which I believe is a major issue for years and it is really obvious with current ME. that is defending. too many shots, poor finishing, high scoring games, over-achieving high d-line and attacking tactics are all products of poor defending. not saying that is the only reason but to me it is a fundamental one.

take too many shots for example. it's not like in previous FMs when players were shooting from everywhere in unrealistic ways. chances are actually created now and nothing looks wrong except that too many chances are created due to poor defending. of course finishing ratio was tuned down then but in reallity it's that there are too many chances created in the first place. this is nothing new in FM.

I think the ME needs serious work on improving defending to achieve solid and realistic base to fine tune other things that need improvement that you mentioned. I also believe that (AI) tactical system could be improved a lot which would add a lot to the game being harder/more realistic. instead of current strategy system (contain,defensive,counter etc.) to actul football styles which would be linked to the level of football, league tradition etc. simply said those defensive mentality slow tempo FM tactics don't exist in top level real life football. all the tools needed to improve tactical system are here they just wait to be put together. I'm quite sure this would also solve many of the current ME problems.

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I agree with everything Svenc has written. There is certainly an overemphasis on forward movement, and even with the most negative, keep-the-ball instructions, attacking play is still too prevalent. There are plenty of situations when I want the priority of my team not to be to create chances, but to just keep the ball- maybe time is running out and we'll settle for a draw, or maybe we've just scored and want to ensure the opponents don't come straight back at us.

If that means it gets worked out to a winger in the opposition half, then all the way back to the keeper again, so be it, but once players get into areas where they think they can create something, all-too-often they'll do so.

This may tie in to the next evolution of team talks. At the moment, we can still only talk in a vague way, both in the in-game talks, the HT/FT ones and post-match. We cannot talk to a player about an individual incident, and yet any camera in any dressing room has shown that this is what happens. Missed chances, defensive errors, goals scored and conceded are dealt with directly, manager to culprit. It's more than "you made some mistakes so I'm thinking of dropping you", it's "Why did you do this? Next time, I want you to try this.", or "I told you to do this, why didn't you?"

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Setting mentality to defensive and retain possession and increasing the time wasting works for me.

Play it back to the defenders/goalie and/or hold the ball up at the corner flag.

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If this player interaction thing where players whine about lack of first team football are ever going to be realistic, the players need to understand the concept of fitness. No, I am not going to play you in the fist team because you have just come back from a six month injury and have no match fitess at all.

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Setting mentality to defensive and retain possession and increasing the time wasting works for me.

Play it back to the defenders/goalie and/or hold the ball up at the corner flag.

I dunno. The thing is, a month ago, this was done on a mere counter mentality (plus retain possession):

Admittedly I put everyone but two players on a role and duty that made them keep their position and sit deep (initially this started out as an experiment at how much you could just hold onto a scoreline -- it occasionally produced back to back goal less draws in sequences). At the moment I'm struggling a little. I'd have to take a look at that save of then, but in general it appears a litle forward pushing as even if a back pass reaches one of the CBs, he mostly makes a forward pass even when his partner is an option. That is part of the issue. The other, well, there is, as mentioned little if any overlap in between picking mentalities and risky moves when on the ball (such as dribblings). Fielding less risky roles on top of all that plus possibly tweaking individual player instructions is a bit of a stretch to keep the ball in deeper areas. In particular as a more forward pushing style is readily available.

Not sure if one of the more recent patches produced knock-ons that would rub off on passing decisions, but I think this isn't something that's in my head (it might still be though). But whether there was something patched or not, going by "continental" standards FM's match play has always been a tad forward pushing, in particular in terms of defenders clearing their lines, in my opinion. On occasion it seems as if it was forbidden for the cbs to interchange passes amongst each others, at least to my eyes.

That said, here's actually a nice sequence that plays out rather rarely in such a way, with playing moving all the way back and the back three actually interacting for a brief moment rather than passing forward immediately. How often do you see that in your matches? For my eyes, given the encouragements, not often enough. I'm not British, though (as said, this isn't meant a jab, mind). :D It's part of a bigger balancing job too likewise anyway. As everything produces knock-ons, ball retention could be made and look ridiculously easy and comical just by tweaking the decision making regarding passes... which then had to be off-set by more aggressive defending, closing down. Ah, well.

[video=youtube;-D-EhVgFl0k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D-EhVgFl0k

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If this player interaction thing where players whine about lack of first team football are ever going to be realistic, the players need to understand the concept of fitness. No, I am not going to play you in the fist team because you have just come back from a six month injury and have no match fitess at all.

But the guy with 68% condition knows his own fitness.

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But the guy with 68% condition knows his own fitness.

But condition and fitness go hand in hand, he may be match fit but if his condition is 68% the he'll last 30 mins and more than likely pick up an injury.

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Become professional? No, I don't think we trust you enough yet. You only brought us from third league to Champions League Qualifiers in 5 years, anyone could do that... :rolleyes:

On a side note, does anyone know whether you need €3,000,001 in your balance to become professional? Or has it changed this year?

KYLhIBa.jpg8ubBRR4.jpg

Bt5yioD.jpg

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My wage is €300p/w and my club's balance sits at €750k.

MFsyvZH.jpg

I see, apologies I only play FMC so don't see this sort of stuff :)

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I agree with you in everything you said. the ME is as close as representing real football as never before. there's one thing you didn't mention which I believe is a major issue for years and it is really obvious with current ME. that is defending. too many shots, poor finishing, high scoring games, over-achieving high d-line and attacking tactics are all products of poor defending. not saying that is the only reason but to me it is a fundamental one.

take too many shots for example. it's not like in previous FMs when players were shooting from everywhere in unrealistic ways. chances are actually created now and nothing looks wrong except that too many chances are created due to poor defending. of course finishing ratio was tuned down then but in reallity it's that there are too many chances created in the first place. this is nothing new in FM.

I think the ME needs serious work on improving defending to achieve solid and realistic base to fine tune other things that need improvement that you mentioned. I also believe that (AI) tactical system could be improved a lot which would add a lot to the game being harder/more realistic. instead of current strategy system (contain,defensive,counter etc.) to actul football styles which would be linked to the level of football, league tradition etc. simply said those defensive mentality slow tempo FM tactics don't exist in top level real life football. all the tools needed to improve tactical system are here they just wait to be put together. I'm quite sure this would also solve many of the current ME problems.

I agree on the defending thing but my biggest gripe was the attacking play has been so limited in the last two verions that it made the game difficult to enjoy…ie the engine wasn’t capable of allowing/enabling good attacking play particularly through the centre…there seemed to be fundamental issues causes blockages to this but they seem to have been alleviated thankfully so the next step is to enable the better representation of the attributes of the players particularly technical such as first touch etc.

Re the defending limitations in general, yes there are certainly some there but when I watch games now I find that I see lots of decent defending in terms of crosses being blocked, shots being blocked and central defenders being positionally better and midfielders offering a better screen for the defenders…probably more than ever before and it resembles the way modern teams go about defending now…in terms of numbers of bodies rather than good defending in itself. Of course it can be improved in terms of better anticipation etc of defenders but I think one thing which affects it is what Svenc mentioned above and I posted about it after the release of the beta.

In beta it was the first time I spent any time looking at matches play out in full. I played a few out at higher speed and it was quite noticeable that the ball moved from back to front probably too quickly and players don’t exhibit the same patience as they should. Admittedly that version of the engine was one where there were far too many shots (which got toned down but seems to be back again) and essentially playing as Barcelona the patterns of play were…start at back…sequence of passes (number varying to be fair) then shot…and same over over over..so it was bang bang bang bang..shot…bang bang bang…shot. Essentially it was very rare to see moves breakdown early in proceedings and build up play almost always resulted in an action around the goal primarily in that version of the engine it was a shot. That was with instructions which should have encouraged more patience and less shots waiting and probing for openings.

Even lengthy possession doesn’t necessarily have to mean getting a shot away at the end of it…again if openings aren’t there teams should display a propensity to recycle possession starting over again waiting for a chance/opening to present itself or of course opposition can break up play. IRL play can get broken down earlier in the pitch and if it’s not then teams often sit back, forming a base of players to defend around the penalty area implying teams should exhibit more patience to pass it around probing waiting for an opening. Of course this will further complicate the work involved for SI to ensure that possession based play/good build up play doesn’t get eliminated entirely in the middle with too many tackles/interceptions yet at the same time not to ensure that ball retention isn’t too easy either : )…it’s a tricky one.

I guess bottom line is the play in the game results too much in an action on goal which at a high level translates to too many shots/too many goals/too many chances/reduced chance conversion for the likes of players through on goal all of which can give the impression that defending is not great…but to be fair one of the driving factors is that there is too much of an orientation towards scoring a goal at the earliest opportunity. Yes of course scoring goals is what football is considered to be about but it’s almost a simplistic notion. The way teams go about trying to score varies enormously in terms of style and sophistication and protecting the ball/possession protecting/defending the goal also comes into play.

Definitely at the moment there are far too many shots…you could argue that this would not be improved with better defending as if a team is going to employ a policy of taking shots then with regard to area of the pitch they shoot from ie away from penalty area it is difficult to prevent that anyway and arguably a team has defended well to force a team to take shots from distance.

I think in FM engine at the moment heavier possession based approaches get too many/more actions on goal than they should. These teams hold possession more and have the ball more and it is the increased instances of having the ball combined with the inclination to get actions on goal too quickly resulting in those possession based approaches having too many/more shots/actions on goal. Essentially players (with instruction and necessary attributes) should pass it around more patiently going backwards and sideways and in (the fashionable buzz a couple of years back) triangles…off the ball movement has improved here to allow this but the too many shots thing I think is a product of the desire to effect an end result to a move (ie back to front to shot on goal too quickly) and lack of technical/mental attributes being as good as they should be to allow a player to get out of spaces through guile/passing/agility/dribbling/good first touch allowing them to do so and all of that allowing players to create openings through quality incisive build up play. Of course fundamental defending can always be improved as will always be the case in the engine…as it happens though I don’t like to admit this but with dearth of quality defending at the highest levels of real life football these days then arguably FM is close as it is lol…but definitely don’t want to go down that road as defending is always up for improvement.

Just to add, in theory direct styles are easier to defend and are more a percentage play and from what I’ve seen defending is decent enough in FM against direct styles so no great complaints there.

I think the continental more patient approach/mentality is something that should be taken more on board in development on engine incorporating more how they approach the game in terms of the time it takes for those teams to get the ball from back to front and result in an action on goal with more lateral/backward/triangular passing and movement of players. I think a reduction in speed/inclination to get an action on goal employed by teams will automatically result in less shots/less chances/less need for chance conversion in some instances to be poor and automatically will result by default in defending being better.

In fairness there is a definite trend in real life football towards faster movement of the ball of back to front but again this is more indicative of declining standards of football and more athletic players but primarily declining standards and playing styles are cyclical anyway. A basic tenet of developing a match engine is to be able to allow all/most styles of football to be employed by your tactics so that shouldn’t be used as a defence of engine.

I guess getting back to defending thing…I think inclination towards getting ball from back to front resulting in action in goal being toned down will result in better defending/less instances of bad defending and the impression thereof.

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Become professional? No, I don't think we trust you enough yet. You only brought us from third league to Champions League Qualifiers in 5 years, anyone could do that... :rolleyes:

On a side note, does anyone know whether you need €3,000,001 in your balance to become professional? Or has it changed this year?

KYLhIBa.jpg8ubBRR4.jpg

Bt5yioD.jpg

This! I have won the Gibraltar title for the past however many seasons, and managed to bring the team into the 3rd CL qualifying round.

Nope, we just don't trust you.

I have more than $3M in the bank too.

Photo of my chairman attached:

20130915-190532.jpg

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there is still too many goals conceded! each game feels like an arcade football match.

I am going back to FM 14.

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…start at back…sequence of passes (number varying to be fair) then shot…and same over over over..so it was bang bang bang bang..shot…bang bang bang…shot. Essentially it was very rare to see moves breakdown early in proceedings and build up play almost always resulted in an action around the goal primarily in that version of the engine it was a shot.

It's not that extreme, though on occasion it can be, in particular if you have many players making many forward runs anyway (if you have, no pick in mentality will stop you from attacking, but then if you're pushing a huge number of players upfield, that's where you're encouraging the ball to be eventually). It's also that, probably repeating myself here, build-ups and moves rarely re-start right at the back. Not sure if this was different in December now. But I'd just tried to literally spam possession again by making players keep their position rather than move forward (not a balanced tactics obviously), picking a more cautious mentality and encouraging the team to retain possession, etc. Against a team sitting back, this was easy, 1000 passes followed. The tendency to sometimes flat out ignore the centre backs is evident in the statistics.

E5MirRH.jpg

846MxDj.jpg

That Dante and Badstuber, the two centre backs, had a significantly lower number of passes than anyone else, even Götze upfront, is no coincidence. It's not that play would NEVER move all the way back, it's just that on occasion it looks as if the code would put a reasonably heavyish bias into the decision making of players: Once the ball has been moved away from the back two, three don't play the ball back to them. Also if one of them gets the ball, don't make them exchange many passes. The dynamic nature of football means that positioning ain't static. Fm works the same way. Players position themselves accordingly to the position of the ball, that is, when the ball never or too rarely gets moved all the way back, the team and the players also rarely move back again. Moves rarely get restarted and rebuild from the back, possession is more likely to be recycled in deep midfield without the team hugely moving back again. As such players are more inclined to get pushed up-field. Unless play breaks down and gets intercepted, eventually you're going to reach goal-mouth and see a shot (even if there was little in this match, as evident in the stats above, even against much inferior opposition just sitting back, but that was also in large parts because of the roles and duty structuring). Not sure to what extent the simulation takes a player's field of view into account, but as players are more likely to look forward, that might also be a cause of the comparably little passes all the way back that would really cause a team to get back again and restart a move from scratch.

Take a look at the statistics of teams such as Barca, it is evident the defenders are much more involved than this: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/04/20/inter-v-barcelona-passing-statistics/ Last Bundesliga season Dante was one of the players making the most passes, with Boateng not far behind, both of them making more passes than their colleagues further of the pitch: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/bundesliga-statistik-gespielte-paesse-gespielte-paesse-in-der-bundesliga-saison--1.1717352

This isn't mean to be whinging and moaning, to me from watching and experimenting for all its warts the match sim remains a piece of coding art. I'd just love to know if this was acknowledged.

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there is still too many goals conceded! each game feels like an arcade football match.

I am going back to FM 14.

My last ten matches

1-0

2-4

3-0

2-0

0-0

1-2

4-1

1-1

1-1

1-0

10 games, 5 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats, 16 goals scored (1.6 per game), 9 conceded (0.9 per game) & 5 clean sheets.

People need to take some responsibility, your tactics make a difference.

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It's not that extreme, though on occasion it can be, in particular if you have many players making many forward runs anyway (if you have, no pick in mentality will stop you from attacking, but then if you're pushing a huge number of players upfield, that's where you're encouraging the ball to be eventually). It's also that, probably repeating myself here, build-ups and moves rarely re-start right at the back. Not sure if this was different in December now. But I'd just tried to literally spam possession again by making players keep their position rather than move forward (not a balanced tactics obviously), picking a more cautious mentality and encouraging the team to retain possession, etc. Against a team sitting back, this was easy, 1000 passes followed. The tendency to sometimes flat out ignore the centre backs is evident in the statistics.

E5MirRH.jpg

846MxDj.jpg

That Dante and Badstuber, the two centre backs, had a significantly lower number of passes than anyone else, even Götze upfront, is no coincidence. It's not that play would NEVER move all the way back, it's just that on occasion it looks as if the code would put a reasonably heavyish bias into the decision making of players: Once the ball has been moved away from the back two, three don't play the ball back to them. Also if one of them gets the ball, don't make them exchange many passes. The dynamic nature of football means that positioning ain't static. Fm works the same way. Players position themselves accordingly to the position of the ball, that is, when the ball never or too rarely gets moved all the way back, the team and the players also rarely move back again. Moves rarely get restarted and rebuild from the back, possession is more likely to be recycled in deep midfield without the team hugely moving back again. As such players are more inclined to get pushed up-field. Unless play breaks down and gets intercepted, eventually you're going to reach goal-mouth and see a shot (even if there was little in this match, as evident in the stats above, even against much inferior opposition just sitting back, but that was also in large parts because of the roles and duty structuring). Not sure to what extent the simulation takes a player's field of view into account, but as players are more likely to look forward, that might also be a cause of the comparably little passes all the way back that would really cause a team to get back again and restart a move from scratch.

Take a look at the statistics of teams such as Barca, it is evident the defenders are much more involved than this: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/04/20/inter-v-barcelona-passing-statistics/ Last Bundesliga season Dante was one of the players making the most passes, with Boateng not far behind, both of them making more passes than their colleagues further of the pitch: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/bundesliga-statistik-gespielte-paesse-gespielte-paesse-in-der-bundesliga-saison--1.1717352

This isn't mean to be whinging and moaning, to me from watching and experimenting for all its warts the match sim remains a piece of coding art. I'd just love to know if this was acknowledged.

Svenc, if I might offer a suggestion here. Why don't you try assigning one of the two CBs as a Ball-Playing-Defender or one of the DMs as a Deep-Lying Playmaker. This might result in them, atleast at the very beginning of the highlight, spraying the ball to the CBs.

If even after this, the number of passes made by the CBs is low, then your experiment would definitely be conclusive.

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I wish the "Cancel Pending Changes" button were more responsive. If you have substitutions queued up it's really difficult to cancel them in the event of a corner, for instance. In reality holding a sub because of a set piece - not taking off your target man until after the corner is taken, say - is pretty common. It's just hard to do at the moment.

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Definitely at the moment there are far too many shots…you could argue that this would not be improved with better defending as if a team is going to employ a policy of taking shots then with regard to area of the pitch they shoot from ie away from penalty area it is difficult to prevent that anyway and arguably a team has defended well to force a team to take shots from distance.

Definitely. The total shots average (not shots on goal) for the big four leagues is something like 13. In FM15, with possession tactics, shoot less often, etc., I regularly get double-triple that (sometimes quadruple) with like a third to a half being on target. I still may only average 3 goals per match. Meanwhile, the opposition usually manages much fewer overall shots and much fewer shots on target, but goal conversion is usually much higher.

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Definitely. The total shots average (not shots on goal) for the big four leagues is something like 13. In FM15, with possession tactics, shoot less often, etc., I regularly get double-triple that (sometimes quadruple) with like a third to a half being on target. I still may only average 3 goals per match. Meanwhile, the opposition usually manages much fewer overall shots and much fewer shots on target, but goal conversion is usually much higher.

How?

I've looked back over my last 10 matches and although I haven't worked out an average I would estimate it would be around 12-15 shots per game. I rarely see more than 20 shots a game for a team, either mine or the opposition and when I do its because one side is being totally battered - The highest number of shots I've seen is 28.

I've also had a look at a few sides in the EPL (Where I'm not managing, so all AI clubs) and even big clubs like Arsenal or Man City seem to be averaging about 12-15 shots a match.

I'm off to work now but I would be quite happy to post up any stats people want from my save.

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People need to take some responsibility, your tactics make a difference.

To add to this, here's the top half of the league table in the Premier League on my save in the seventh season:

screen-shot-2015-01-05-at-19-48-251.png

So, total average goals per game of 2.83.

In real life, last year the average goals per premier league game was 2.77, so it's a variance of about 2%. My sample is skewed as it is only the top ten teams, but it isn't unreasonable to broadly assume that the bottom teams will concede more, proportionately offset by scoring fewer.

Highest goals scored for a team per game is 2.5, lowest 1.28. Last season in real life, City top scored with 2.68 per game, so FM in this sample is about 6% lower.

Just a small sample, but it has a more context than a "there are too many goals" statement. In this sample, on this save, there is a level of goalscoring which feels right, and appears to be in line with real life data.

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I woulsn't disagree with any of that - I don''t know what the AI does - but it is currently too easy to score lots of goals. Only a late season blip left me on 99 in the Prem with Newcastle in my second season, as well as 25 in my Europa group stage (including 2 7-2 away victories). In my first 7 games of this season I've scored 29. I think the build up play is too consistent at the moment, and I don't even think my main striker is that good attribute-wise but managed 40 goals last season and is well over a goal a game at the start of this.

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I woulsn't disagree with any of that - I don''t know what the AI does - but it is currently too easy to score lots of goals. Only a late season blip left me on 99 in the Prem with Newcastle in my second season, as well as 25 in my Europa group stage (including 2 7-2 away victories). In my first 7 games of this season I've scored 29. I think the build up play is too consistent at the moment, and I don't even think my main striker is that good attribute-wise but managed 40 goals last season and is well over a goal a game at the start of this.

Human controlled teams always have the capacity to generate outlying numbers. The key thing is how the AI is behaving. My image above shows perfectly normal stats for the PL, and I could post similar tables for the six seasons before too.

How does a league table on your save look? Are any sides (other than your own) scoring an average of 4 per game after a decent number of matches?

We get lots of knee-jerk reactions in here about individual matches with high scores, or human controlled teams with massive goal counts. These instances need context, and that can only be given by looking at the performance of a number of AI teams over a decent number of games.

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No its just me, everything else looks quite normal. Played 1 game since I wrote before, beat Man Utd 6-1. Not saying its impossible, but its become the norm for my team. I don't really see why just looking at AI is important though, surely the ME shouldn't be that easy to exploit to unrealistic levels by humans? Surely if what I'm doing is possible, other AI managers with good stats and better players should be able to get somewhat close to my team?

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No its just me, everything else looks quite normal. Played 1 game since I wrote before, beat Man Utd 6-1. Not saying its impossible, but its become the norm for my team. I don't really see why just looking at AI is important though, surely the ME shouldn't be that easy to exploit to unrealistic levels by humans? Surely if what I'm doing is possible, other AI managers with good stats and better players should be able to get somewhat close to my team?

It's always going to be much easier for a human to "exploit" the ME than an AI element. We simply think better, when the AI has to think within the realms that it has been coded. AI programming that thinks like a human just isn't there yet, at least for a relatively niche game like FM.

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Why do players come on trial but have no intention of actually discussing a contract? I had this issue on FM14 and again this year.

Is it to retain fitness, put themselves in the shop window or something else?

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So after finally playing the game in my free time ( thank god for holidays what a lovely human invention) here are my issues with the game:

1. The skin. Its a horrible downgrade from last year. Yes i realize some people like it but that doesn't mean i cant say i don't like it. Its too dark the information is too clustered. But on the tactic screen information is severely lacking. Confusing stuff.

2. The ME :

2.1 Strikers finishing. Its abysmal. Top quality strikers with top attributes shooting straight at the keeper like in middle school football, they use their weaker foot half the time i dont even know why its their weaker foot when they use it for literally every other shoot at goal. They shoot only wide or straight at the keeper. Although there is more variety then FM14 in terms of shooting patterns its still bad. And i know why! Because if SI made strikers shoot like popper strikers the games would be too high scoring. So instead of improving defense they make strikers worse. Classic game design.

2.2 Passing options. Even with proper PPM's and tactical instructions players still don't pass frequently when there is a good opportunity for a through ball. The striker/IF/AM/Winger makes a good off the ball move but the pass just isn't there so the player that made the off the ball move is forced to stand next to an opposition defender for the rest of the attacking play.

2.3 Attacking formations are too good you cant sit and play on the counter you will get crushed but if u go all attack somehow you have a chance against better teams which is madness.

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This! I have won the Gibraltar title for the past however many seasons, and managed to bring the team into the 3rd CL qualifying round.

Nope, we just don't trust you.

I have more than $3M in the bank too.

It's not impossible - I turned professional around 6 or 7 seasons in with Lincoln. If they think you can afford it, they will make the change.

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Argh..........3rd prem season with Ipswich (promoted 1st season) and we are somehow spending nearly 3m a month on 'non-football costs'..........I hated this about old FM's, it just creeps up and up for no reason I can see.

Wage budget is only £570k a week. What on earth would a club like Ipswich be spending 3m a month on that isn't related to football?

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Argh..........3rd prem season with Ipswich (promoted 1st season) and we are somehow spending nearly 3m a month on 'non-football costs'..........I hated this about old FM's, it just creeps up and up for no reason I can see.

Wage budget is only £570k a week. What on earth would a club like Ipswich be spending 3m a month on that isn't related to football?

Non-Football costs represent anything that isn't anywhere else in the expenses. This covers things like office staff/costs, food, policing, stewards, insurance etc.

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My last ten matches

1-0

2-4

3-0

2-0

0-0

1-2

4-1

1-1

1-1

1-0

10 games, 5 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats, 16 goals scored (1.6 per game), 9 conceded (0.9 per game) & 5 clean sheets.

People need to take some responsibility, your tactics make a difference.

My last ten matches:

2-1

2-0

3-0

7-1

1-0

3-1

2-2

6-0

1-2

4-2

And if I go further back...

2-1

4-1

3-0

2-1

4-4

3-2aet

4-1

3-0

It's not restricted to me either. The AI has had some astounding results, Everton toppling Manchester City 5-0.

On that 4-4 week, Aston Villa tonked Sunderland 8-0, City in turn tonked QPR a whooping 6-0 Leicester and Southampton battled it out to a 4-3 smash and grab.

Match of the day that weekend was awesome I assure you. ^_^

And I'm one of the more tactically apt players here. I don't think there's a massive issue as it was in the beta for the lower leagues but there is a huge number of goals popping up at times. My last save (the one immediately throughout beta) never had such erratic and constant goalscoring. Some days I see games where, if the shot is on target it's probably going to be a goal. The 4-4 / 6-0 / 7-1 games were like that, and on the other hand I've seen some ridiculous games where everything including the kitchen sink has been thrown at the opposition (35+ shots, 7 CCC's, I'm playing a conservative counter attacking strategy, admittedly with the youth team and it ended up 2-2 @_@ feh!)

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I like the above post because it's not belligerent; it's certainly reflecting my game as well. I originally thought the high scores might be ok as I was playing in NI Div 2 where the scores are higher. It shouldn't be happening to the same extent in higher divisions though and it's not the player as they're all AI. I enjoy the game more if it's realistic and I agree with a lot of others that, at the moment, it's not. I hope that the high scoring can be tweaked slightly as it would make the game more fun.

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The challenge with the "high scores" is that there is a mix of results being posted in here; some high, some low.

SI soak tests again and again (in AI only environments) reveal total goals ~+/-10% of real life (though this is usually only checked in the top 2 leagues of many countries, as far as I'm aware).

What would be handy is rather than just having posts either way, is if people could actually post screens of their last complete season in FM15. That will give a broader indication that what we currently have and complete seasons are far more valuable that the occasional silly scoreline; people at either end of the goalscoring spectrum are currentlyposting images which effectively cancel each other out. Would also be interesting to know if any of the posters are using ridiculous downloaded tactics with three central attacking strikers :seagull:

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Is there anyway we can have the Opposition instructions closer to the players names? This is during the pre-match instructions.

i.e. I want to set "tackle harder" on the MCR. I have to look at his name, which is on the left, then very carefully follow that row all the way over to the right side of the screen, and then double check myself to make sure I'm actually selecting the right person! I know there are different, alternating, shades but regardless, it should be easier to see!

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Just started my first 15.2.1 game, using Arsenal. First "competitive" match is Community Shield against Man City. 8-4 win. Willing to write it off as a freak result for the minute as there were only 28 shots between both teams in the game, but certainly doesn't bode well.

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I think the continental more patient approach/mentality is something that should be taken more on board in development on engine incorporating more how they approach the game in terms of the time it takes for those teams to get the ball from back to front and result in an action on goal with more lateral/backward/triangular passing and movement of players. I think a reduction in speed/inclination to get an action on goal employed by teams will automatically result in less shots/less chances/less need for chance conversion in some instances to be poor and automatically will result by default in defending being better.

In fairness there is a definite trend in real life football towards faster movement of the ball of back to front but again this is more indicative of declining standards of football and more athletic players but primarily declining standards and playing styles are cyclical anyway. A basic tenet of developing a match engine is to be able to allow all/most styles of football to be employed by your tactics so that shouldn’t be used as a defence of engine.

I guess getting back to defending thing…I think inclination towards getting ball from back to front resulting in action in goal being toned down will result in better defending/less instances of bad defending and the impression thereof.

I didn't pay attention to defenders interpassing and backpasses to them from midfield. but backpass to CB should be an option in any style no metter how direct it is. it shouldn't be that hard to compare the stats with real life.

bigger issue for me is how mentality interfers with passing direction. at least it was until few years back (I skipped last couple of FMs) and the difference between mentality extremes. the thing I mentioned in my last post, the more defensive mentalities like Contain or Defensive simply don't simulate top level real life football. low or mid table Premierleague (or La Liga, Bundesliga etc..) teams don't play slow, time wasting football. with lower d-line, maybe less pressing, less risk, depending on opposition. but still they play at very fast tempo, trying to lounch any counter or half counter attack. even more importantly teams don't and cannot completly change their style of play on weekly basis. going from let's say Defensive startegy in FM terms of course to Attacking is totally different style of football. I really hoped this would change as this part of the game is really unrealsitic imo. I saw a little improvement in FM15 but still long way to come. I believe there are enough of tools now with TIs and PIs to change the tactical system from current Strategy based to actual Football Styles which shouldn't be that hard at all. something in these lines http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/tactics/team-instructions/tactical-styles which would not only help the human managers but actually improve the AI a lot. one thing I completely disagree with this guide is that it is still Strategy based which meens it gradually increases all the sliders the more attacking you go. especially the mentality (in terms of passing direction, the urgency of direct passing which highers the possibility to launch counter attacks), time wasting and tempo the most. I think we can safely say, maybe with few exceptions here and there that the higher the level of football teams will tend to move the ball more quickly. in other words there's no chance that teams like Stoke, QPR, Grenada, Hoffenheim, Genova or Monaco would ever play at the level of tempo 6 in FM terms.

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My Northern Ireland Belfast Telegraph Championship 1 team has had a takeover. The problem is that when I ask for something it goes straight to the club's profile page. Is this just a problem from the last patch? Do I need to upload the save?

Edit: Nevermind, seems to have righted itself.

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I didn't pay attention to defenders interpassing and backpasses to them from midfield. but backpass to CB should be an option in any style no metter how direct it is. it shouldn't be that hard to compare the stats with real life.

bigger issue for me is how mentality interfers with passing direction. at least it was until few years back (I skipped last couple of FMs) and the difference between mentality extremes. the thing I mentioned in my last post, the more defensive mentalities like Contain or Defensive simply don't simulate top level real life football. low or mid table Premierleague (or La Liga, Bundesliga etc..) teams don't play slow, time wasting football. with lower d-line, maybe less pressing, less risk, depending on opposition. but still they play at very fast tempo, trying to lounch any counter or half counter attack. even more importantly teams don't and cannot completly change their style of play on weekly basis. going from let's say Defensive startegy in FM terms of course to Attacking is totally different style of football. I really hoped this would change as this part of the game is really unrealsitic imo. I saw a little improvement in FM15 but still long way to come. I believe there are enough of tools now with TIs and PIs to change the tactical system from current Strategy based to actual Football Styles which shouldn't be that hard at all. something in these lines http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/tactics/team-instructions/tactical-styles which would not only help the human managers but actually improve the AI a lot. one thing I completely disagree with this guide is that it is still Strategy based which meens it gradually increases all the sliders the more attacking you go. especially the mentality (in terms of passing direction, the urgency of direct passing which highers the possibility to launch counter attacks), time wasting and tempo the most. I think we can safely say, maybe with few exceptions here and there that the higher the level of football teams will tend to move the ball more quickly. in other words there's no chance that teams like Stoke, QPR, Grenada, Hoffenheim, Genova or Monaco would ever play at the level of tempo 6 in FM terms.

There's probably a case to get rid of mentality completely. This should be determined by 3 things for me

1. Roles & Duties

2. Team philosophy

3. PI & TI

That should be more than enough to get your team playing differently, it also then does away with the misconception around some of the mentalities (counter and defend for example).

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Just started a new clean save Palace, sunday league footballer with top coaching badges. Team meeting went very well with all players in the green. Then as preseason starts, two players approach me saying they want to move to bigger clubs showing interest in them (Hull, Soton). Since I had first transfer window disabled I told them they can go if a bid comes in, because i know it wont. Then Speroni comes to me and tells me he's having trouble settling and wants to return to his home country!! This guy has been at Palace for 10 years, is a club legend, and owns a restaurant named after himself in the city!

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Alright lads?

I've been away from the boards now for a week and i know there was alot of discussion and the amount of time it took to save the game!!! just to say it's still the exact same for me taking about 3mins. Is the problem at my end running too many leagues on a low end graphics spec system?

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Alright lads?

I've been away from the boards now for a week and i know there was alot of discussion and the amount of time it took to save the game!!! just to say it's still the exact same for me taking about 3mins. Is the problem at my end running too many leagues on a low end graphics spec system?

Save times naturally increase as your save game file size increases.

However, a fix that was put in for save times, seems to have regressed on some hardware configurations in the last update.

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Save times naturally increase as your save game file size increases.

However, a fix that was put in for save times, seems to have regressed on some hardware configurations in the last update.

I just started a new game, about a quarter way through first season so no big files as of yet. You say " a fix that was put in for save times, seems to have regressed on some hardware configurations in the last update." will there be another patch for the rest of us?

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I just started a new game, about a quarter way through first season so no big files as of yet. You say " a fix that was put in for save times, seems to have regressed on some hardware configurations in the last update." will there be another patch for the rest of us?

There will presumably be the usual post Winter transfer window data and ME update, but I have no idea whether anything will be done before that specifically to address this issue.

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There will presumably be the usual post Winter transfer window data and ME update, but I have no idea whether anything will be done before that specifically to address this issue.

OK, thanks for letting me know!!!

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