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Neil Brock

Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.2.1

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Is no one noticing the excessive shots on goal per game made by attacking teams? AI included.

Number of goals is fine with this patch, but attacking teams are taking too many shots at goal and this has to be reduced.

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My feedback, the game is just not fun at all. I've spent long enough trying to like it but can't. Feel like I'm spending more time picking out faults with the game than actually watching good games of football, and I don't want to feel like I'm bug testing every time I play it. FM14 it is.

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The in-game editor wont check boxes when you click on them anymore.

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Was that your first issue with the player or have you broken any promises before?

First problem.

To compound the messed up situation he moved to England. So much for missing France. I accepted offers from 2 French clubs and 1 english club just to see how much he really wanted to go 'home'. It was pretty much certain he'd move elsewhere. Why do I say this? Because player interaction is a MESS!

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Is no one noticing the excessive shots on goal per game made by attacking teams? AI included.

Number of goals is fine with this patch, but attacking teams are taking too many shots at goal and this has to be reduced.

Yes, many have mentioned it, bug reports are in.

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Yes, many have mentioned it, bug reports are in.

Not a bug in my opinion. More attacking Mentalities take more shots, that's the way it should be. There are tools at our disposal to reduce them. I can understand it when the AI doesn't make use of those tools, but for human users to fail to do so is not buggy.

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Not a bug in my opinion. More attacking Mentalities take more shots, that's the way it should be. There are tools at our disposal to reduce them. I can understand it when the AI doesn't make use of those tools, but for human users to fail to do so is not buggy.

Chicken and egg :D

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It's known and a resolution is being worked on.

Do you know when the 3d kits issue will be fixed...?

Thanks

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Do you know when the 3d kits issue will be fixed...?

Thanks

No, I'm afraid we never know when something will be fixed.

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hey guys, i think maybe lukok and challenger refer to this post by Tony Fallows

link here post #22

this is in fm 2014 bugs report

it's up to you how to interprete this quote, but i think this just want to explain that there are some limitation in the ME (in this case fm 2014 ME) regarding to finishing, for the sake of not overflowing the ME with too many goals

cheers :)

Wow. That's some impressive detective work.

But I don't think it's the one.

I think it was in one of the feedback threads for the previous FM. Or somewhere in the general forum at least...

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Not a bug in my opinion. More attacking Mentalities take more shots, that's the way it should be. There are tools at our disposal to reduce them. I can understand it when the AI doesn't make use of those tools, but for human users to fail to do so is not buggy.

It affects the AI so it must be a bug. I see games AI vs AI with 25-25 shots for each teams or 35-10.

I admit i have a very good team for my league, but even if i play attacking this doesn't mean i shouls have 40 shots per game vs inferior teams.

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but even if i play attacking this doesn't mean i shouls have 40 shots per game vs inferior teams.

Why not?

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Seriously?

Yes. Why shouldn't it be possible?

Should it happen every game? God no. Should it not be possible? Why not?

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You have already been advised to moderate your posting style recently in the bugs forum. This sort of comment is disrespectful and is not welcome. Please desist from using this tone.

I honestly don't see any problem with the tone.

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Yes. Why shouldn't it be possible?

Should it happen every game? God no. Should it not be possible? Why not?

That is a shot on goal almost every two minutes. Don't you think that's a bit too much? What is the other team doing in that match? :D

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Yes. Why shouldn't it be possible?

Should it happen every game? God no. Should it not be possible? Why not?

Well that is the problem. It's happening a lot. 30+ shots per game is no problem for my team in almost every game. 40+ is easily achievable in a lot of games. And the fact that ai v ai games are having totals of 40+ regularly is an issue. It's already been said its being looked at so I why defend it or blame it on tactics?

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That is a shot on goal almost every two minutes. Don't you think that's a bit too much? What is the other team doing in that match? :D

Oh yeah, it is a Hell of a lot of shots, but why not?

There are examples in the Tactics forum of people taking 50+ shots in a match and complaining about a lack off efficiency :)

If people want to set up a ridiculous strategy of peppering the goal, they should be able to. The game gets criticised for being restrictive and lacking options, so if people couldn't generate these silly shot counts, there would be complaints either way.

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Well that is the problem. It's happening a lot. 30+ shots per game is no problem for my team in almost every game. 40+ is easily achievable in a lot of games. And the fact that ai v ai games are having totals of 40+ regularly is an issue. It's already been said its being looked at so I why defend it or blame it on tactics?

Because it is a result of tactical ineptitude, that's why :brock:

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big teams should have an average of 15-20 shots per game. I agree that some exceptions happen, but no big team in this world will shoot like mad when leading with 2-3 goals. they tend to chill the game.

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I honestly don't see any problem with the tone.

It wasn't just the tone of that specific post which was the source of the comment.

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Is it not possible to have a striker with support duty that has anything other than "More risky passes" or "Fewer risky passes"? I could have sworn it was at least possible to *tune* it, but now I can't have a DLF that is a little less risky or a TM or DF that is a little more risky. It's frustrating to be able to get a player to play the way you want him to when you aren't even allowed to.

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big teams should have an average of 15-20 shots per game. I agree that some exceptions happen, but no big team in this world will shoot like mad when leading with 2-3 goals. they tend to chill the game.

I agree with you. On average, that should be the aim (or even lower). My point was that 40+ shots on goal per match is not a common occurrence for any side, unless there is a tactical imbalance as a result of human involvement.

If you can provide evidence that teams with a comfortable lead are still taking pointless pot shots, then please upload .pkms to the Bugs Forum.

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Oh yeah, it is a Hell of a lot of shots, but why not?

There are examples in the Tactics forum of people taking 50+ shots in a match and complaining about a lack off efficiency :)

If people want to set up a ridiculous strategy of peppering the goal, they should be able to. The game gets criticised for being restrictive and lacking options, so if people couldn't generate these silly shot counts, there would be complaints either way.

I get it, but my point is the other team, the one that concedes 50 shots on target in one match. What the hell are they doing? Just give the ball to the opponents and hope for the best? :D

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Has anyone actually had a free kick on target since the update? I think Jonny Wilkinson takes mine. Perfectly over the posts every time!

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Has anyone actually had a free kick on target since the update? I think Jonny Wilkinson takes mine. Perfectly over the posts every time!

My FK taker is still putting them away.

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Has anyone actually had a free kick on target since the update? I think Jonny Wilkinson takes mine. Perfectly over the posts every time!

I posted official stats for free-kicks on this board a day or two ago. In premiere league, there are 30 free-kick goals per year on average. This means 1.5 goals per team from free-kick, IN A YEAR. In my game in FM15, in current season, nearing the end of the season now, and free-kick total is 33 so far. If it continue with this rate, it will be around 40.

My team scored 3 so far, which is double the real life average.

There are I believe more DFK's given in the game just outside the penalty area, then in real life, but I don't have the stats for that. So, maybe the accuracy of free-kicks is a little low, but certainly nothing alarming there.

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I also want to repeat that after playing almost 3 seasons now, I am very happy with the player interactions. Nothing unreasonable happened to me so far, which makes me believe that some people's expectations of what the game should provide vs the real life experience is not compatible. I experimented with 3 teams in these 3 seasons. With the first two, I did not have any player moaning about playing time, or anything else to me, ever. In my current save though, I am managing a 3rd division German team, with 4 hot prospects who can play in the DMC position, in addition to the 2 veterans playing in that position, who are my starters. Two of the young ones are perfectly happy not getting any playing time, whereas the other two complained. Out of those two, I convinced one to stop complaining, instantly after our first chat, and since than he is happy. The last one wanted to leave, he was Serbian, and I transfer listed him. 2 weeks later he was sold to Red Star, for 200K, which is good money for German 3rd division.

Everything that happened to me makes sense. Some FM gamers want to be able to have 20 world class players in their team, and not one of them ever moaning, and win, win, win always. And that's what they had in previous FM's. But I also know there are a lot FM fans like me who have been waiting for years for SI to finally make squad building and roster management more challenging.

I for one hope that SI won't revert back on this.

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Everything that happened to me makes sense. Some FM gamers want to be able to have 20 world class players in their team, and not one of them ever moaning, and win, win, win always. And that's what they had in previous FM's. But I also know there are a lot FM fans like me who have been waiting for years for SI to finally make squad building and roster management more challenging.

I for one hope that SI won't revert back on this.

I have to agree with this, an ordinary squad in FM15 generally seems to generate a normal amount of personal and contractual problems.

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I posted official stats for free-kicks on this board a day or two ago. In premiere league, there are 30 free-kick goals per year on average. This means 1.5 goals per team from free-kick, IN A YEAR. In my game in FM15, in current season, nearing the end of the season now, and free-kick total is 33 so far. If it continue with this rate, it will be around 40.

My team scored 3 so far, which is double the real life average.

There are I believe more DFK's given in the game just outside the penalty area, then in real life, but I don't have the stats for that. So, maybe the accuracy of free-kicks is a little low, but certainly nothing alarming there.

I posted about this the other day. I don't think scoring is too low. Accuracy is different, though, and it doesn't seem like enough free kicks end up on target (or hitting the wall, or going slightly wide).

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I have to agree with this, an ordinary squad in FM15 generally seems to generate a normal amount of personal and contractual problems.

Some people have posted some screenshots of ordinary problems occurring in extraordinary times and ways, though. Interactions still definitely need some tweaking. I can't be held responsible for not playing a dude when there are no games, and I can't be held responsible for not selling one outside a transfer window.

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Some people have posted some screenshots of ordinary problems occurring in extraordinary times and ways, though. Interactions still definitely need some tweaking. I can't be held responsible for not playing a dude when there are no games, and I can't be held responsible for not selling one outside a transfer window.

Oh yeh, there are still plenty of problems with the mechanics, but volumes are comparable with rl in the average squad.

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Some people have posted some screenshots of ordinary problems occurring in extraordinary times and ways, though. Interactions still definitely need some tweaking. I can't be held responsible for not playing a dude when there are no games, and I can't be held responsible for not selling one outside a transfer window.

I agree with that part. However, after playing 3 seasons, I have yet to experience anything like this.

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I have to agree with this, an ordinary squad in FM15 generally seems to generate a normal amount of personal and contractual problems.

Exactly. And every once in a while if a player starts moaning unreasonably, just let him go, and enjoy the extra challenge of finding a replacement. Sometimes this happens in real life too.

To be honest, any long term save has a higher chance of getting dull and not challenging, if it wasn't for squad problems generated by the game.

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Almost end of the season now, and I started looking for renewing the contracts of some of my players. My team captain, a 32 year old DC, complained during the season once when the team was underachieving, and said something like he doesn't like how I manage the team. When the team started winning, he stopped complaining. But now, when I wanted to renew his contract, his agent said that he dislikes me and doesn't want to renew the contract. Disappointing? Yes. But I am so happy that this happened :) Now I need to think about who should be the new captain. Hopefully somebody who likes me :)

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I get it, but my point is the other team, the one that concedes 50 shots on target in one match. What the hell are they doing? Just give the ball to the opponents and hope for the best? :D

From my experience, ever since 2013ish it isn't all that easy to park the bus as previously. I'll have a look at saves prior to this, and might update this post with screenshots later, but previously picking a cautious/defensive mentality plus encouraging to drop even deeper plus standing off and on feet used to be pretty effective almost in itself and forced the opponents to long shots (I remember various Cup upsets I managed to get this way). From 2013ish on, going a more cautious mentality and dropping deeper can tend itself to matches like that. From gut feeling it's slightly trickier to set up a parking bus tactics imo either way, which would be weird considering the collision avoidance routines that have been placed into the game which in theory should make piling up bodies behind the ball actually more effective (forwards could pretty frequently just avoid marking altogether, that is the bodies, as they on occasion they would ghost straight through their marking player when making an off the ball movement).

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The AI tactics as well as the human tactics naturally need be taken into account. It is perfectly possible to completely slow a game to a turd of a crawl with barely a shot in sight (not sure if the AI is able to reproduce this to a decent extent and how readily it does this depending on the AI manager's preferences and match situation), and dropping all off naturally invites all the pressure in the world in particular if the opposing team employs a more pro-active and aggressive tactics (remember that the tactical options are meant to be used holistically -- it right starts with the basic formation and with your pick of roles and duties, as changing mentalities etc. never dramatically alters the shape of your team neither when in possession nor without). Still, dropping all deep can tend itself to matches in which you're more readily peppered with shots very readily (as naturally, would the AI).

Without proper research, this remains only a gut feeling, and lord knows FM's very nature is open to these kind of assessments which can be a tad off the mark. For another overhaul in between these "old clunkers" and FM 2013 onwards is that there's more on the ball action anyways, as you can easily see comparing the number of passes in total, the running distances and more (previously time used to be slightly compressed, effectually resulting in matches that were about 15-20 minutes shorter real-time than real football matches; and a frequent complaint had it that such you couldn't amass the passing stats of Barca and similar). Those previous numbers are actually still to be found in FM 2015: Compare the statistics of competitions you haven't simulated in full detail to those you have - like any of your own by default. (The quick simulation routines haven't been updated ever since.) A little hard to believe that the ground covered by your average Championship player would be that far off his EPL colleagues, no?

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What's up with contracts this year?

Manage EL qualification first season with HSV? 1 year contract.

CL qualification first season with Stuttgart? 1 year contract.

League, Cup, Supercup and CL Final with Bayern? 1 year contract.

Repeat that the season after and win CL this time? 1 year contract.

Try to negotiate a 2 yr contract next season? Contract talks breaks down...

At this rate I'll lose my Bayern save because my board refuses to give a succesful manager (who is favoured personnel) more than a one year contract extension.

Oh and players are WAY too bouncy, had a freekick hit the wall and then bounce between the players like a pinball :D

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I don't understand how any feedback from players watching highlights can be constructive.

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Just had a game with a created team in the Conference Prem. that ended 7-6 (5-2 HT) season 2020/21

before that, the highest goalscoring game was 6-4 in the conference south (season 2016/17)

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I don't understand how any feedback from players watching highlights can be constructive.

Aside from your post not being constructive either, how exactly does one have to watch the full match in order to give feedback?

If I see the ball cross the sideline and the linesman gives a corner while he's standing on top of the ball and it's not even close to a corner, how is that invalid feedback, just because I saw it during a highlight? Would watching a full match suddenly show me a completely different view where I see that the ball actually did cross the line for a corner, rather than a throw in?

If I see a freekick being given on the line of the penalty area (Now my football rule knowledge isn't flawless, but I'm quite sure the line counts as part of the penalty area, therefore it being impossible for a foul that's judged to be on the line to actually be a freekick?) is that invalid because I only saw it during a highlight?

If I see the ball hit one of my players and bounce back as if it hit a wall, why do I need to watch full matches to conclude that a ball doesn't bounce off a human being like that? If I see a goalie make a sideways save, yet he parries the ball in the exact direction as it came from, why do I have to watch a full match to conclude that it's highly unlikely for the ball ever to be parried in that direction?

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If I see a freekick being given on the line of the penalty area (Now my football rule knowledge isn't flawless, but I'm quite sure the line counts as part of the penalty area, therefore it being impossible for a foul that's judged to be on the line to actually be a freekick?) is that invalid because I only saw it during a highlight?

I was under the impression that the line did not count as the penalty area for purposes of giving free-kicks/penalties. But then I'm probably wrong.

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hey guys, i think maybe lukok and challenger refer to this post by Tony Fallows

link here post #22

this is in fm 2014 bugs report

it's up to you how to interprete this quote, but i think this just want to explain that there are some limitation in the ME (in this case fm 2014 ME) regarding to finishing, for the sake of not overflowing the ME with too many goals

cheers :)

As subsequent posters have pointed out, this is no suggestion at all that we work on 'rubber banding' the ME.

This is merely a statement of fact, that if we improve finishing then we'll have more goals, therefore we'd have to look at how the ME could be improved in other ways to keep things balanced. This is part of how we work on a daily basis and it simply highlights that it's not always an easy fix to "improve finishing" or "improve goalkeeping", we're walking a constant tightrope.

Thanks for all your Match Engine feedback so far, we're taking it into account and working very hard to find that perfect balance! :)

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As much as I like the game overall this year, it's a wee bit realism-busting how easy it is. And I'm someone who always struggles with this game.

In one save on the main game, I've managed three straight promotions with Hereford. I have never done this before in any version of the game.

Also, I just started a save on FM Classic with Sunderland the other night. 3rd after 10 games. Beat Arsenal 3-0 and beat Man City 2-0 - where I had 16 goal attempts (11 on target) and restricted them to a solitary shot on goal. I've only bought one player in pre-season (Bryan Ruiz), and I'm not using any downloaded 'super tactic'.

One of the many things I loved about FM14 was that, for me, they got the difficulty spot on. If you went a small or mediocre team, then generally you would struggle a bit until you managed to build a good side, and the flow of the game was better. I was sitting last night watching Sunderland destroy Man City seven weeks into the first season, and all I could think of was 'this isn't right'. I was actually pleased when Chelsea beat me 2-0 in the next game :lol:

Other than some of the wonky interactions, that's my main real gripe with this year's game. I'm sure the majority will look on this as being a positive thing, but for me it just seems a bit off.

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As much as I like the game overall this year, it's a wee bit realism-busting how easy it is. And I'm someone who always struggles with this game.

In one save on the main game, I've managed three straight promotions with Hereford. I have never done this before in any version of the game.

Also, I just started a save on FM Classic with Sunderland the other night. 3rd after 10 games. Beat Arsenal 3-0 and beat Man City 2-0 - where I had 16 goal attempts (11 on target) and restricted them to a solitary shot on goal. I've only bought one player in pre-season (Bryan Ruiz), and I'm not using any downloaded 'super tactic'.

One of the many things I loved about FM14 was that, for me, they got the difficulty spot on. If you went a small or mediocre team, then generally you would struggle a bit until you managed to build a good side, and the flow of the game was better. I was sitting last night watching Sunderland destroy Man City seven weeks into the first season, and all I could think of was 'this isn't right'. I was actually pleased when Chelsea beat me 2-0 in the next game :lol:

Other than some of the wonky interactions, that's my main real gripe with this year's game. I'm sure the majority will look on this as being a positive thing, but for me it just seems a bit off.

I agree. I had a Man Utd save from the beta towards to end of 15.1.4 and it was way too easy to win silverware. Even in my first season where my team wasn't built to how I wanted it. The only team that could compete with me was Chelsea. Made the league very lacklustre and predictable. I got two the CL final 3 times in 6 seasons and won it twice and I won the league 4 times in a row. The only difficult part becomes pleasing the board.

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I agree. I had a Man Utd save from the beta towards to end of 15.1.4 and it was way too easy to win silverware. Even in my first season where my team wasn't built to how I wanted it. The only team that could compete with me was Chelsea. Made the league very lacklustre and predictable. I got two the CL final 3 times in 6 seasons and won it twice and I won the league 4 times in a row. The only difficult part becomes pleasing the board.

To be fair though, that's - arguably I admit - not really that unrealistic. Most managers should be able to do that with Man Utd - the AI have too on my save, winning four out of seven of leagues so far. It's something entirely different if a lower Premier League team has started doing the same.

For what it's worth, I do find it easier than FM14. I just couldn't get into that game at all, only really managing one successful save, so I'm quite happy with the way FM15 is. I haven't found it overly easy, but most certainly better for someone like me - that is, a terrible manager.

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Agree that the game is a bit too simple. Loves to play with smaller teams and fight my way up through the series. But as it is now it is too easy and it takes away the fun of the game. Which is a pity when the game is otherwise very good

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So I read here that the producers worry about users getting too many chances and too many goals. So if I sit down, read the manual many times, understand perfectly how it works, build a strategy convenient for my team, build a domination tactic, watch the opponent closely, make small changes to my game according to what I have seen and then destroy my opponent, the producers think it's not good

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So I read here that the producers worry about users getting too many chances and too many goals. So if I sit down, read the manual many times, understand perfectly how it works, build a strategy convenient for my team, build a domination tactic, watch the opponent closely, make small changes to my game according to what I have seen and then destroy my opponent, the producers think it's not good

No, they object to every single team in the game scoring far too many goals. Completely different thing.

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First season, Everton, Sold Baines got some **** for that, apart from starting the season well i was expecting unrealistic winnings of leagues, but no i managed the Carling Cup, and i'm 3 games left in the league and i think i'll finish between 10th and 7th.

I like the game, its excellent, its just missing the 3D Kits, people who cry about the game AI well there will be another update i'm sure, i'm only bothered about things going wrong like the kits during these updates..

Good work on the game i say..

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Difficulty has always been iffy in FM though. Every version you'll have part of the community claiming it's too hard and part claiming it's too easy. The only thing people generally agreed on was that managing top clubs was too easy as your rivals simply couldn't keep up in the long run.

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