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Neil Brock

Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.1.4

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If so many people are complaining about the number of goals, then there is definitely a problem. You cant explain this with tactics alone because otherwise there would be this kind of reaction after each update.

I think before the hotfix the main issue were goalkeepers, crosses and corners. After the hotfix its too many goals. Its by far the most talked about issue here. There is a reason for that.

Lets hope SI will rectify that with the next update.

Have you skipped all the posts here contradicting the false accusation about the number of goals? Or did you read them and thought we are all lying? Just curious...

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I have 6 clean sheet in my last 9 matches at the moment. Really loving my defensive setup. It comes at a cost though. Only once I managed to score more than 2 goals, which was a 3-0 victory against one of the worst teams in the league. Needless to say, I played with a more offensive tactic in that game.

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I can definately concure with some of the posters expressing some concerns regarding the latest Hot Fix. Mr U Rosler is touching on one of the problems in his "Anyone else notice there is a Home Fixture bias" thread...

There is some Closing Down issues that will probably need to be addressed at some point in time in the near future...

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If so many people are complaining about the number of goals, then there is definitely a problem. You cant explain this with tactics alone because otherwise there would be this kind of reaction after each update.

I think before the hotfix the main issue were goalkeepers, crosses and corners. After the hotfix its too many goals. Its by far the most talked about issue here. There is a reason for that.

Lets hope SI will rectify that with the next update.

People also said there were too many injuries ;)

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Really frustrating. Did something tweak in the defending? Prepatch, I hardly conceded goals and was almost unbeatable. After patch everything has gone to hell.

Since the patch my keeper has had two runs of over 10 hours without conceding. Defending is fine.

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The fact that others can easily keep clean sheets kinda points to it being your fault and not the game I'm afraid.

EDIT - the team at the top of the league in my save have only conceded 11 goals in 24 games. I've conceded 31 in 23, but then I play quite an attacking tactic with this team, so that's pretty normal. Only conceded one goal in my last three games though, so it's getting there.

This is kinda bull isn't it though..

Some people said crossing wasn't an issue last patch because they were playing super narrow diamond formations with no width.

Crossing was an issue, and it was worked on.

Point being, if history in FM teaches us anything, it's that, opinion is going to get divided, people are going to have different experiences, and you can't rule anything out either way.

There are indeed a lot of people complaining about high scores, just as there are people saying it isn't an issue.

Case in point. It has been noted in this thread that humans using attacking tactics are seeing very high scores throughout their league, and with AI vs AI matches. Whereas, those using defensive tactics are citing that scorelines are not a problem.

The actual issue is the vast difference in AI vs AI behaviour/simulation, in response to how the human is playing.

Which party is right?

Since the patch my keeper has had two runs of over 10 hours without conceding. Defending is fine.

The other point, which relates to the above.

This person is keeping clean sheets so obviously there are no problems.

Let's just gloss over, the speeding up and slowing down of players. the bad back passes, the bad back headers, the not-reacting to crosses, or attackers in the box, etc, etc, things that we can all see, clearly are defensive issues....

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Don't have any problems defending really, just went 5 or 6 games without conceding a single goal. But when you concede, it's usually more than one :) Overall the number of goals seems a bit high, getting a lot of 4-3, 7-2 etc. results. The game seem to have become easier after the patch, which is not necessarily a good thing, but I can't judge that on just one season where everything has gone to plan!

At the same time, the ME is absolutely great, better than any previous version by far. Yes, there are a bit too many goals, but I'm sure it will get fixed.

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This is kinda bull isn't it though..

Some people said crossing wasn't an issue last patch because they were playing super narrow diamond formations with no width.

Crossing was an issue, and it was worked on.

Point being, if history in FM teaches us anything, it's that, opinion is going to get divided, people are going to have different experiences, and you can't rule anything out either way.

There are indeed a lot of people complaining about high scores, just as there are people saying it isn't an issue.

Case in point. It has been noted in this thread that humans using attacking tactics are seeing very high scores throughout their league, and with AI vs AI matches. Whereas, those using defensive tactics are citing that scorelines are not a problem.

The actual issue is the vast difference in AI vs AI behaviour/simulation, in response to how the human is playing.

Which party is right?

The other point, which relates to the above.

This person is keeping clean sheets so obviously there are no problems.

Let's just gloss over, the speeding up and slowing down of players. the bad back passes, the bad back headers, the not-reacting to crosses, or attackers in the box, etc, etc, things that we can all see, clearly are defensive issues....

I'm using a range of tactics from counter to offensive control, and scores are pretty normal. The AI vs AI scores in my save are also normal. Rather than debating back and forth, look at Kriss' reply to you and upload pkms and such for them to have a look at if you are seeing anything that is abnormal.

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I'm using a range of tactics from counter to offensive control, and scores are pretty normal. The AI vs AI scores in my save are also normal. Rather than debating back and forth, look at Kriss' reply to you and upload pkms and such for them to have a look at if you are seeing anything that is abnormal.

What I really meant to say was, it bothers me when people say, I'm not having this issue, so all the people who are, are obviously wrong. This is poppycock

More so considering, the complexity of the ME, and how something simple like one change to a TI can radically change your fortunes

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What I really meant to say was, it bothers me when people say, I'm not having this issue, so all the people who are, are obviously wrong. This is poppycock

It cuts both ways though. One can't just say "I'm conceding loads therefore defending is broken". At end of the day, when something is that split, rather than debate it, people should simply upload the evidence and let SI have a look. It'd be a lot less stressful for all concerned and a lot more useful for SI. They might be right, they might be wrong, but at least it's in the hands of those who know best. That said, anyone keeping one clean sheet in 55 (this is a reply to an earlier post) should almost certainly look at their setup, because even accounting for any possible patchy ME defending that's poor.

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Dont get me wrong i like the new ME but keeper reaction time having saved a shot is still awful, they save it and just stand there still, letting any of their players (or sometimes mine) just slot home into the open net..

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Dont get me wrong i like the new ME but keeper reaction time having saved a shot is still awful, they save it and just stand there still, letting any of their players (or sometimes mine) just slot home into the open net..

Mine seemed near enough okay for the first half of the season, but recently its getting more noticeable as I reach the seasons end so I'm wondering is the problem is made worse by jadedness? Or it's just a coincidence :p

It's definitely improved since the hotfix but it's clearly not quite fixed yet completely :)

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Mine seemed near enough okay for the first half of the season, but recently its getting more noticeable as I reach the seasons end so I'm wondering is the problem is made worse by jadedness? Or it's just a coincidence :p

It's definitely improved since the hotfix but it's clearly not quite fixed yet completely :)

Not gonna lie mate i haven't seen any improvements! But other parts of the ME are great :thup:

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What I really meant to say was, it bothers me when people say, I'm not having this issue, so all the people who are, are obviously wrong. This is poppycock

More so considering, the complexity of the ME, and how something simple like one change to a TI can radically change your fortunes

In another thread where I was debating something was wrong, I was told that even if it's a one in 10,000 thing, then maybe the person who reported it just happened to be that one. Thus it is possible that those conceding few goals are the minority. What I am curious about is if anyone has compared the total goals to real life? I mean play four or five seasons, add up all the goals in that particular league then add up the past four or five seasons of the same league in real life. See if there is a significant difference and if so, is it a thing of extremes or is it consistently off?

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In another thread where I was debating something was wrong, I was told that even if it's a one in 10,000 thing, then maybe the person who reported it just happened to be that one. Thus it is possible that those conceding few goals are the minority. What I am curious about is if anyone has compared the total goals to real life? I mean play four or five seasons, add up all the goals in that particular league then add up the past four or five seasons of the same league in real life. See if there is a significant difference and if so, is it a thing of extremes or is it consistently off?

Real life averages also vary from one year to another, of course, but over the last few years as far as I know they are in the 2.50-2.80 range.

Currently in my game, among the active / full detail leagues, the lowest is around 2.30, the highest is around 2.90. This is over a large sample, since many leagues are active in my save. Therefore, I for one would conclude that the number of goals is spot on in this ME.

The 2.90 is the Italian Seria A, where I noticed a lot of teams are playing with no fullbacks. So, maybe having the wings more exposed combined with the crosses still being slightly overpowered (that is if they are) is the cause of this. But the total number is not out of whack. It is only slightly higher than RL.

Human managers are completely different story, with their unusualy offensive tactics creating lots of goals. This can skew the results. If your teams matches result with 4.50 goals per match for example, in a league with 18 teams you are single handedly going to increase the league's average by 0.20-0.25 goals per game. If you are playing in the Italian league, this means you may have over 3 goals per match in your division, which is becoming borderline too high.

Most of the lower leagues are not active in my save, so I don't know the situation there. However, I know that IRL the lower you go, the higher the goal count gets because of the weak defending.

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Hello friends.

I was really enjoying ME latest patch 15.1.3, after this update to 15.1.4 I have noticed some "problems":

Players seem robotic: movements - ball protection, dispute for the ball are poor

The passing and dribbling are still very poor (in ME beta I saw the players kicking the ball with the outside and inside of the foot, took place with effect kicks and hard and was finding it very cool!

The free kicks after the last patch does not result in goal

The defenses still commit fails, players are in front of the attackers stop running and the attacker recovers the ball and makes the goal

- I see many shots on goal during the games think it should be improved as well as still occur many heavy defeats, unrealistic facts

I am very confident that this will be the best version of Football Manager, and wanted to make some improvements ME ideas:

- Fault near the Corner flag never had barriers, it is totally unrealistic!

- Goals dribbling the goalkeeper, bicycle or volley, as well as goldfish (like the van persie did in the World Cup should happen from time to time

- When a player is sent off players must go complain to the referee, as well as when he cancels a goal offside

- When an arbitrator is to card the player the doll representing the referee to raise the card before appearing in the narration

- When a bid is given offside, that offside line that existed in FM 12 should re-appear

- The goal of the network does not scale when the ball hits it, it could be improved

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In connection with the interface think some improvements could be made: Increase optimization when we click on the profile of the players, improve compatibility for those playing in windowed mode (often appears that the game is not responding during the days go by) and my pc is very good for the game.

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No major issues for me, just a couple of observations....

1.Full backs have a tendancy when running with the ball along the touchline to just run out of play with the ball.

2.In European fixtures the extra officials are actually on the pitch instead of behind the goal(happened in my last game away to CSKA).

3.A full backs initial movemant when the opposition attack the flanks is to move past his opponent when closing down.

4.It is far to easy for the opposition to close down when chasing an attacker clean through on goal.John Terry V James Wilson should be a no contest when Wilson has broke the offside trap and is bearing down on goal.

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I can't play the game. If I continue past where I am, the save gets screwed up.

The bug has been logged since June and throughout the beta/updates. However, it hasn't been addressed yet: Linux bug.

Any news on this? My save game is now useless because of this limitation.

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Playing in the Conference North, I'm finding the opposition are scoring incredible goals almost every game. 30 yard screamers, first time shots from outside the box, absolutely perfect free kicks. Also, conceding a lot from my goalkeeper spilling a shot and none of my defenders react to it, but the opposition are always all over it. I'm not claiming this is a bug, but it's feedback, and an observation from my current save. :)

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I haven't noticed any effect on keeper reactions at all.

You would if you went back to the last ME!

There are still too many slow reactions after an initial save, examples of which are being uploaded to the Bugs Forum - more are welcome :)

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Are there situations where players are penalised for touching the ball with their hands (whatever it's called in english) in FM 15? Haven't seen it yet even when playing full matches. But I guess it's pretty rare in real life too.

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Are there situations where players are penalised for touching the ball with their hands (whatever it's called in english) in FM 15? Haven't seen it yet even when playing full matches. But I guess it's pretty rare in real life too.

I believe you are referring to the old handball?

I saw one in my last game from an opponent at a corner kick. Perhaps they aren't very common as you say

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I for one am really enjoying FM, i have a couple of quick observations, which may be tactic related but I thought I'd put them out there for discussion:

- I've had a couple of instances where either a ball over the top or a through ball is played and my player is a yard or two clear of the last man, but rather than charge on to goal they slow down and get tackled

- seen some amazing one on one close range keeper saves or defender blocks

- I for one am finding defending fine, have kept a lot of clean sheets whole season

- appears to be a skew to home teams

- ive noticed a drop off in the ability of my IFs to cut in and score

Food for thought, overall loving my save!

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Its by far the most talked about issue here. There is a reason for that.

.

Injuries was one of the most talked about 'issues' recently, and that was proven not to be an issue at all.

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Injuries was one of the most talked about 'issues' recently, and that was proven not to be an issue at all.

Again not true.

Injuries themselves might average themselves out and be on par with real life over the course of a season, but I think the main issue people had, was that most of them happened in game, as opposed to in training...Which, is not exactly on par with real life..

Still..what I came here for..

When am I not going to be considered huge underdogs to Bayern??

I've won the Bundesliga 5 times in a row, the champs league twice, 3 German Cups..While Bayern's team has deteriorated, and in those 5 years they haven't won a single trophy..So yeah, when am I going to not be considered HUGE underdogs???

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I can't play the game. If I continue past where I am, the save gets screwed up.

The bug has been logged since June and throughout the beta/updates. However, it hasn't been addressed yet: Linux bug.

Any news on this? My save game is now useless because of this limitation.

You'd do better to ask in the bugs forum Bobby.

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Case in point. It has been noted in this thread that humans using attacking tactics are seeing very high scores throughout their league, and with AI vs AI matches. Whereas, those using defensive tactics are citing that scorelines are not a problem.

The actual issue is the vast difference in AI vs AI behaviour/simulation, in response to how the human is playing.

Whether you use attacking or defensive tactics for your own team has absolutely no bearing on the other teams in the league (except when you play them, of course). The very notion of that is utterly ridiculous. Stop trying to create issues that simply do not exist. That does no-one any favours.

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Again not true.

Injuries themselves might average themselves out and be on par with real life over the course of a season, but I think the main issue people had, was that most of them happened in game, as opposed to in training...Which, is not exactly on par with real life..

And you know this how excatly? Have you studied when most injuries occur in great detail?

Besides, inuries in game are mostly dependent on how you manage your squad, and what tactics you use in-game (and for how long), in addition to simple luck. For example, in previous games, you got away with an intense pressing game for the whole 90mins. In this version, there's a far bigger risk of in-game injuries with that approach - as it should be.

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Bought the game yesterday and played half a season with a team in Swedish third tier so thought I would share some impressions. Firstly, the match engine is really impressive. The animations mostly look good (the close control dribbling animation looks really awkward though, it has to be said). Ball physics have finally had a long overdue improvement which thankfully means that the ball gathering momentum from the pitch is a thing of the past. But the most important bit is how players react to the ball. It's a massive improvement from the last two versions. The defending is much more engaged and reactive, when a player gets turned there's an instant reaction and an attempt to recover, when they fail with a tackle they're straight back in there instead of freezing on the spot, lots of blocks and last ditch tackles etc. The ball feels 'loose' in the sense that passes don't feel so scripted anymore - players make good interceptions and 50/50 challenges actually seem to exist making the game a lot more unpredictable. Overall the game looks much much more like real football than any previous version.

That said there seem to be minor balance issues. Individual defending in some instances seems almost too effective, particularly in recovering and making tackles from behind. It's a fine line because you don't want defenders to go back to their birdwatching ways of 13 or 14 but it does seem like the forwards are slightly at a disadvantage there. Also the variety in finishing seems to be lacking. I don't think I've seen a single one on one scored, which sounds worse than it is because there aren't many one on ones in general and that is largely a good thing. But you'd expect some chances of this variety to be created and scored. Close range shots, both first time and more controlled seem to go towards the keepers chest slightly too often as well. The majority of goals scored in that half a season played seemed to involve some sort of set piece scramble, most frequently the keeper parrying the ball towards the attacker and then not reacting. On the other hand there were a few goals from a very realistic play that couldn't happen in previous versions.

As for the 'new' interface, there are some good parts, some bad and some outright horrible. I like the way the sidebar and header seem to be integrated together which makes it more ergonomic involving less of dragging the mouse around. On the other hand, a lot of things require more clicks than before which should frankly never happen. For instance, you have to click on the home tab to even find the menu header that includes actions like going on holiday, resigning etc whereas in the past they only required a single click to bring up a nested menu. Lots of things seem illogically hidden away from view. And whose idea was it to shuffle player attribute order as well as changing creativity to vision? Those of us who have played the game for years have developed a sort of 'muscle memory' that allows us to get a full picture of player attributes at a glance. Now it's all messed up because of one attribute in the wrong place (at least it is for me). As for the tactics screen, the only thing I really have to say is WT serious F. Apart from the visual indication of roles and duties in the form of player position on the tactics board there is not a single thing that makes sense about the changes and even that could have easily been integrated with the old style screen. Pretty much everything takes more clicks now and it all really is utterly unintuitive. Not to say you can't get used to it but it's still a baffling change.

Transfers and squad building I obviously cannot make a judgment on as of yet. Luckily I haven't encountered almost any sort of player interaction either and the media will still be dealt by the assistant so no opinion there. Touchline team talks annoy me a lot less than I expected them to, although it is frustrating that there is no indication to what the different options actually do (push forward or tighten up is a tactical instruction no? How is it now bundled in with team talks then? Does it change tactics at all or what does it even do? etc). The tracksuit and tactical roleplay thing also needs more explanation. What's the benefit of being for instance more determined as opposed to more disciplined as a manager figure? Does it even have an impact?

Overall though I'm pretty happy with this version. The match engine seems to only need a few tweaks to be set this year which is the most important part for me and the rest of the game functions well enough to be enjoyable (at least so far). Not bad, SI ;)

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just got 4 bad injuries in just 1 match :(, results me a loss after that.

Do your team instructions include closing down often and harder tackling?

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Do your team instructions include closing down often and harder tackling?

No, I unticked that.

The match later had 2 bad injuries too. 1 out for a month and 1 out 2 weeks.

The ME is very good, but SI should tune down the injury number

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This however makes zero sense

eYH4FqX.jpg

That's not what I promised. It said I would have to work with the current staff, nothing about not being allowed to sign any extra, especially as it says on the boardroom screen that I'm allowed to fill the position. Can't sign another scout to ease the load on the only one I currently have which frankly is stupid.

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Either it's your players not being properly match fit, injury prone, or just bad luck. If there was that level of an issue with injuries in game, everyone would have it. And they don't.

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This however makes zero sense

eYH4FqX.jpg

That's not what I promised. It said I would have to work with the current staff, nothing about not being allowed to sign any extra, especially as it says on the boardroom screen that I'm allowed to fill the position. Can't sign another scout to ease the load on the only one I currently have which frankly is stupid.

There's tons of the interactions in game that are a mess. People concentrate so much on the ME in these feedback threads, but it's this area of the game that needs far more work IMO.

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Whether you use attacking or defensive tactics for your own team has absolutely no bearing on the other teams in the league (except when you play them, of course). The very notion of that is utterly ridiculous. Stop trying to create issues that simply do not exist. That does no-one any favours.

I was merely summing up what the mods have suggested and what the people arguing their side of the point has suggested.

People using defensive tactics have said scores are fine, whereas it's been suggested that high scores are due to attacking tactics.

I'm not creating issues mate, just reiterating what has already been said.

And how do YOU know, whether you chose to play defensive or attacking, isn't affecting scores throughout the league? Do you know how game works? Do you know it's how coded? It could be yet another bug, of which there have been countless over the years.

Don't be such an ignorant fool.

Surely you have to ask, why people are seeing high scorelines with attacking tactics with AI vs AI, and why they are seeing more reasonable scorelines with AI vs AI when using more conservative tactics.

It's not out of the realms of possibility for there to be a correlation here.

I haven't taken either side, which you seemed to have missed in your quest to try and prove you know more than others, merely offered both sides of an interesting debate, in attempt to prove the point the people have different experiences, are you can't simply throw a blanket over a statement and think it's the be all and end all, if you yourself aren't experiencing what others are..

And you know this how excatly? Have you studied when most injuries occur in great detail?

Besides, inuries in game are mostly dependent on how you manage your squad, and what tactics you use in-game (and for how long), in addition to simple luck. For example, in previous games, you got away with an intense pressing game for the whole 90mins. In this version, there's a far bigger risk of in-game injuries with that approach - as it should be.

Have you??

I've watched football for the last 23 years of my life, I'd imagine I've noticed some things...

Stop trying so hard to be a mod, it doesn't help anyone..

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I was merely summing up what the mods have suggested and what the people arguing their side of the point has suggested.

People using defensive tactics have said scores are fine, whereas it's been suggested that high scores are due to attacking tactics.

I'm not creating issues mate, just reiterating what has already been said.

And how do YOU know, whether you chose to play defensive or attacking, isn't affecting scores throughout the league? Do you know how game works? Do you know it's how coded? It could be yet another bug, of which there have been countless over the years.

Don't be such an ignorant fool.

Ok then, the floor is yours. Please elucidate on the logic of the tactics YOU employ for your own team having an effect on matches that you have no involvement in. And try and steer it away from 'but bigger boys said it happens so it must be true'. I want to know why YOU think this is happening. And be very specific.

Surely you have to ask, why people are seeing high scorelines with attacking tactics with AI vs AI, and why they are seeing more reasonable scorelines with AI vs AI when using more conservative tactics.

Read that back to yourself. In time, you might realise how utterly ridiculous it sounds.

It's not out of the realms of possibility for there to be a correlation here.

It's outside the realms of logic. Miles outside in actual fact.

I haven't taken either side, which you seemed to have missed in your quest to try and prove you know more than others, merely offered both sides of an interesting debate, in attempt to prove the point the people have different experiences,

What experiences are YOU having? Do YOU see the goals of AI vs AI matches ramp up whenever you use another tactic in an, er, unrelated game? Again, be very specific.

Have you??

Well no, but then I'm not the one claiming that something is 'too much'.

Stop trying so hard to be a mod, it doesn't help anyone..

Trust me, I'm the last person they'd have as a mod on here.

My summation of your ramblings is that you've fallen into the most common trap on here. The feedback thread equivalent of adding 2+2 and coming up with 5. You're letting bits of other people's feedback influence you instead of concentrating on your own experience in the game.

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ME looks amazing and i think the defensive problems are mostly gone now. Depending on tactics, for instance i play defensive football in premier leauge and the amount of goals in leauge is reasonable and it makes the ME realistic. Thanks a lot SI, for your incredible work. Hope that it will only get better.

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There's tons of the interactions in game that are a mess. People concentrate so much on the ME in these feedback threads, but it's this area of the game that needs far more work IMO.

It needs to become an industry in its own right tbh, it has to get huge before it even begins to feel realistic.

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It needs to become an industry in its own right tbh, it has to get huge before it even begins to feel realistic.

True, but it was miles better in the last two games. It's gone considerably backwards in this game, which is disappointing. Dare I suggest they're trying to be too complex with it?

Expanded player interaction is fine, after all that's probably how it works in real life, but it has to be based on logic. At the moment, there's too much of a disparity. It's the most disappointing aspect of this year's game at the moment.

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Case in point. It has been noted in this thread that humans using attacking tactics are seeing very high scores throughout their league, and with AI vs AI matches. Whereas, those using defensive tactics are citing that scorelines are not a problem.

The actual issue is the vast difference in AI vs AI behaviour/simulation, in response to how the human is playing. .

Errr, correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying your tactics can affect matches in your league that you're not involved in, i.e. AI versus AI?

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It needs to become an industry in its own right tbh, it has to get huge before it even begins to feel realistic.

It's kind of head scratching that if SI Towers are trying to mimic real life - then why are we in the press room more than we are on the training field...?

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Love the game, but I think there's a small problem with human anatomy... :D

wheres_my_head.png

Loving it. Looks more like a screenshot from a shooter game though.

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I'm sure SI will stick to they "statistics" in real life to not consider this a bug, but after this patch the in game injuries are getting just too much! Point me a club in the world that in 8 games have to make substitutions due to injuries in 7 games! And statistically, in real life, the injuries "wait" to happen right after the 3rd substitution like in FM?

And to be clear, I'm only complaining about in game injuries, after this patch they have been happening to me just about every game...

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