Number of Attacking Roles for a Specific Mentality

[boblardo]

Apologies in advance if this has already been posted, I'm pretty sure I have read a post on this but having searched I was unable to find what I was looking for.

Is there a rule of thumb or some "loose" advice around the number of attacking duties required for a specific mentality. One would assume that the more Defensive the mentality the more attacking roles required, is this the case?

[RTHerringbone]

There is no Rule of thumb really.

Cleon has shown how the use of Defensive with a mix of more attacking Roles can render Defensive more effective in an attacking sense, but similarly you could choose a very reserved mix of Roles and Duties to make the system truly defensive. It's a bit of a cop out of an answer - but it depends what you want the system to do.

[boblardo]

I read that post by Cleon, it was very informative.

To put some detail around it;

I have a very solid 4-1-4-1 tactic with a control mentality. My Home form is strong losing just once

My away form is not so good, not terrible by any means but not good. All I do is change the mentality from control to counter, would it be sensible here to change some of the roles too so I have an extra Attacking role somewhere?

[RTHerringbone]

I read that post by Cleon, it was very informative.

To put some detail around it;

I have a very solid 4-1-4-1 tactic with a control mentality. My Home form is strong losing just once

My away form is not so good, not terrible by any means but not good. All I do is change the mentality from control to counter, would it be sensible here to change some of the roles too so I have an extra Attacking role somewhere?

Why do you change Mentality for away games? Is it for all away games, or only certain away games?

I have used a 4-1-4-1 for three seasons with a Control Mentality and never change that, I just change Team Instructions from match to match and nothing else.

[boblardo]

When using my Control tactic away I just get dominated, switching to counter seems to make a more level playing field.

What TI's should I be looking at changing as I only use Drop Deeper at the start and add/remove based on AM feedback

[RTHerringbone]

My approach is dead simple. I have my standard set of TIs (Pass Shorter, Work Ball Into Box, Close Down More and Push Higher Up) which I never change as they are the essence of how I want to playl

All I change are "Exploit The....." and "Play Narrower / Wider" TIs. Against a 4-2-3-1 I'll exploit the flanks, against a 4-1-4-1 I won't do a thing, against a 4-4-2 I'll play wider and exploit the middle, against a 4-1-2-2-1 I'll exploit the flanks, and so on. If the AI changes formation in game, I'll change these TIs accordingly.

All I do is look for the weak spot and target it. A 4-1-4-1 is a really robust platform from which really simple instructions like above can have a clear effect on a match.

[boblardo]

Thanks for the reply

Doesn't control already have a high line, so using Push Higher Up will push the defensive line up to the halfway line? My CD's only have 9 or 10 pace so I choose drop deeper

[RTHerringbone]

Thanks for the reply

Doesn't control already have a high line, so using Push Higher Up will push the defensive line up to the halfway line? My CD's only have 9 or 10 pace so I choose drop deeper

My settings are based on my Southampton team. My core TIs aren't the relevant thing here, it is the ones I change from match to match which are the ones to consider. I'm far from saying it is the only approach, but what I am saying is that the "Exploit the...." and "Play Narrower / Wider" TIs are a very good, proactive way of managing a match based on the AI shape.

[boblardo]

understood and thanks

[fmjeros]

It really depends on the strategy and of course the formation but as a general rule of thumb i would suggest playing counter/standard i would use 3 defensive 3 support and 4 attacking roles or 3d2s5a, playing control/attacking i would go for something like 3d4s3a or maybe 3d5s2a

[GSTG]

My approach is dead simple. I have my standard set of TIs (Pass Shorter, Work Ball Into Box, Close Down More and Push Higher Up) which I never change as they are the essence of how I want to playl

All I change are "Exploit The....." and "Play Narrower / Wider" TIs. Against a 4-2-3-1 I'll exploit the flanks, against a 4-1-4-1 I won't do a thing, against a 4-4-2 I'll play wider and exploit the middle, against a 4-1-2-2-1 I'll exploit the flanks, and so on. If the AI changes formation in game, I'll change these TIs accordingly.

All I do is look for the weak spot and target it. A 4-1-4-1 is a really robust platform from which really simple instructions like above can have a clear effect on a match.

Do you play fluid home and away or ?

[RTHerringbone]

Do you play fluid home and away or ?

Flexible Home and Away. I never change Team Shape.

[spaced33]

Are you playing fmc?

Won't you take a hit in terms of team familiarity by making these changes or do you use the other tactics slots to get familiar with the instructions you use?

[Wesley6]

I think if you make changes once you are in the match, i.e. after you have clicked 'submit team' then tactical changes don't affect familiarity...might be wrong though.

[Cleon]

I think if you make changes once you are in the match, i.e. after you have clicked 'submit team' then tactical changes don't affect familiarity...might be wrong though.

The hit you take is minimal, its not even noticeable yeah

[RTHerringbone]

Are you playing fmc?

Won't you take a hit in terms of team familiarity by making these changes or do you use the other tactics slots to get familiar with the instructions you use?

I am playing FMC, but changes in game, especially like Play Narrower / Wider and Exploit The...... have minimal impact, if any, on familiarity anyway.

[RTHerringbone]

Jesus Christ, there's Cleon again Always bloody does that

[kingjericho]

My approach is dead simple. I have my standard set of TIs (Pass Shorter, Work Ball Into Box, Close Down More and Push Higher Up) which I never change as they are the essence of how I want to playl

All I change are "Exploit The....." and "Play Narrower / Wider" TIs. Against a 4-2-3-1 I'll exploit the flanks, against a 4-1-4-1 I won't do a thing, against a 4-4-2 I'll play wider and exploit the middle, against a 4-1-2-2-1 I'll exploit the flanks, and so on. If the AI changes formation in game, I'll change these TIs accordingly.

All I do is look for the weak spot and target it. A 4-1-4-1 is a really robust platform from which really simple instructions like above can have a clear effect on a match.

I understand the logic with the "Exploit the..." shouts, but could you elaborate your reasoning to using "Play wider/narrower"?

[RTHerringbone]

I understand the logic with the "Exploit the..." shouts, but could you elaborate your reasoning to using "Play wider/narrower"?

When I used the 4-1-4-1, I basically had three central midfielders. Play Wider allows you try to stretch the midfield area, whereas Play Narrower can compact it. You can use those instructions either way and use Narrower against a 4-4-2 to try and make the most of your numerical advantage, or play Wider and try to stretch that area knowing that you have an extra man.

[davidmn27]

Has anyone encountered issues when changing your tactic from one game to the next, such as for home and away games? I have 3 shapes, but all with roughly the same instructions and they're all trained to full fluidity. I use the one that I feel most suits the situation such as 4141 away from home against a tougher team and use a counter mentality, but for games I'm expected to win go to 4411. I use a 442 when I want an extra striker on.

Does anyone see an issue with changing from game to game? If so, whats the point in having 3 slots for tactics? Hope that makes sense. Thanks..

[Cadijk van Kaarhandel]

My approach is dead simple. I have my standard set of TIs (Pass Shorter, Work Ball Into Box, Close Down More and Push Higher Up) which I never change as they are the essence of how I want to playl

All I change are "Exploit The....." and "Play Narrower / Wider" TIs. Against a 4-2-3-1 I'll exploit the flanks, against a 4-1-4-1 I won't do a thing, against a 4-4-2 I'll play wider and exploit the middle, against a 4-1-2-2-1 I'll exploit the flanks, and so on. If the AI changes formation in game, I'll change these TIs accordingly.

All I do is look for the weak spot and target it. A 4-1-4-1 is a really robust platform from which really simple instructions like above can have a clear effect on a match.

That's a really great tip. Thank you.

I've built a solid 4-2-3-1 and was winning pretty much all my home games. Away from home was different though. I was W3-D5-L3 when i read this. I've now taken this on board and since doing so have gone W6-D0-L1 away from home, enough to win the league with my Aberdeen team.

Thank you

[RTHerringbone]

That's a really great tip. Thank you.

I've built a solid 4-2-3-1 and was winning pretty much all my home games. Away from home was different though. I was W3-D5-L3 when i read this. I've now taken this on board and since doing so have gone W6-D0-L1 away from home, enough to win the league with my Aberdeen team.

Thank you

Cool

Sometimes I don't just talk crap

[difran8]

against a 4-4-2 I'll play wider and exploit the middle

Do you find this successful? Isn't it contradictory?

On second thought though, it might increase the central space and direct the play there

[RTHerringbone]

Do you find this successful? Isn't it contradictory?

On second thought though, it might increase the central space and direct the play there

That is the plan

[kingjericho]

What roles did you use in the 4-1-4-1? When I set "exploit the middle" I struggle a lot more than when I use "exploit the flanks".

My roles are:

FB (a) x2

CB (d) x2

DM (d)

W (a) x2

DLP (s)

AP (a)

DF (s)