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Where the attribute " Creativity " has gone ?


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Sorry to come out of the blue with a question that may seem obvious but I skipped FM14 cause my FM13 went long.

I have now noticed that one of my favorite players' stat has gone, it was " creativity ". I liked to have midfielders with a high creativity value to create game weird assists etc.. Now there is a new one called " vision " that is not the same thing at all.

1) How can now a player be judged in terms of his own " creativity " to create out of schema gameplay ??

2) What does " vision " mean ? Vision of the gameplay within the field ?

Thx

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Thanks for the answers but in terms of gameplay IMO " vision " is totally different from " creativity ". This in the real life, maybe FM interprets them in the same way.

Vision means the ability to see the whole field and to dictate the geometry of the passes, something like Pirlo, a good player but he does very well his homeworks with no invention.

Creativity means the opposite, the capacity to create, to invent, something like Maradona. You will never know what is going on in front of him. Vision is related to a good but boring player, predictable like a traffic light.

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Yeah flair is what you are talking about in terms of the game, not creativity. Creativity has always been about the ability of a player to pick a really good pass, flair was always the attribute that gave a player the ability to do individual moments of brilliance.

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Vision is not an accurate description, new people to the game are going to look at Vision and go my player has "Vision 1" he needs corrective eye surgery!

Ridiculous change of the name to something that does not describe the attribute at all.

Passing Vision

Passing Creativity

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Vision is not an accurate description, new people to the game are going to look at Vision and go my player has "Vision 1" he needs corrective eye surgery!

Ridiculous change of the name to something that does not describe the attribute at all.

Passing Vision

Passing Creativity

That's ridiculous, people won't think that because it's a Football game. So people will know to think of the vision attribute in Footballing terms.

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Vision is not an accurate description, new people to the game are going to look at Vision and go my player has "Vision 1" he needs corrective eye surgery!

Ridiculous change of the name to something that does not describe the attribute at all.

Passing Vision

Passing Creativity

I disagree.

Vision has always been used in many sports as the ability to get your head up and see whats going on around you and so is a good description of what the attribute does within FM.

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I disagree, I think the change has made the attribute ambiguous.

Vision is commonly used even by commentators, so pretty much anyone will understand it.

If it was literally a player's ability to see, it would have been under physical attributes. :p

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Ha ha - lol too true.

Just my opinion.

I'd say Alonso has great "Vision" and good "Dribbling" but I'd say Messi has better "Creativity" excellent "Vision" and Excellent "Dribbling"

I'd say Aidan McGeady has poor "Vision" and mediocre "Creativity" and ok "Passing"

Just think vision isn't necessarily creativity or vice versa.

You can't just lump Messi with a 19 Vision, Alonso with an 18 and McGeady with a 6.

There's too many things to consider.

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Vision is just the ability to see more passing options. He'll still need anticipation, composure, concentration, decisions (to choose the right pass) and the technical attributes technique and passing to pull it off. I probably forgot a few attributes, but you get the idea.

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Ha ha - lol too true.

Just my opinion.

I'd say Alonso has great "Vision" and good "Dribbling" but I'd say Messi has better "Creativity" excellent "Vision" and Excellent "Dribbling"

I'd say Aidan McGeady has poor "Vision" and mediocre "Creativity" and ok "Passing"

Just think vision isn't necessarily creativity or vice versa.

You can't just lump Messi with a 19 Vision, Alonso with an 18 and McGeady with a 6.

There's too many things to consider.

At the same token, you dont just look at one attribute to get the full picture, as you say, there are too many things to consider.

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Xavi has great Creativity, but Ronaldo has flair.

I agree with this. I don't know why you disagree, because based on the quoted sentence, you agree with the definitions.

What would Creativity represent? What's the definition of this new Creativity Attribute?

(EDIT: after seeing Cougar's post, I thought I'd clarify that I agree with your sentence if you meant Creativity = Vision :))

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Creativity in a player for one-on-one situations strikers and wingers is not the same as "vision", passing isn't part of their game, but their dribbling is. So being great at vision is not great if you're in a one-on-one situation, like striker bearing down on goal has to be creative to score, not just be able to spot a pass.

Robben is one of the most creative players in the world, but he doesn't win a game on his own like Ronaldo or Messi, or even Suarez (when he was at Liverpool), those players have vision and creativity.

You can create your own chances, but be terrible at creating chances for others, like Berbatov, Le Tissier, etc.

Rooney arguably scored one of the best overhead kicks ever scored, but I wouldn't class him as having high flair or vision, but he created that chance out of both sets of skills, in both flair and vision.

So why is there no longer a "creativity" attribute?

I can clearly define between having a player that is good at vision, good at creativity or good at both. Yet they are all lumped under "vision".

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In terms of database values for players, creativity would be under 'flair', to do something out of the ordinary, that magic moment in the game. Where vision is how far that player (2D dot, 3D player) can visibly see a pass in-game.

EDIT:

It has always been called 'Vision' in the database for researchers but called 'Creativity' in-game in previous editions which wasn't a true reflection.

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Vision is more limited term than creativity in my opinion. To me vision reads basically as the ability to spot a pass. Creativity on the other hand, is not just to spot a pass, but to force movements upon your team mates and opponents with a pass which consequently open up spaces to be exploited.

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Vision is more limited term than creativity in my opinion. To me vision reads basically as the ability to spot a pass. Creativity on the other hand, is not just to spot a pass, but to force movements upon your team mates and opponents with a pass which consequently open up spaces to be exploited.
That's the reason why it was changed, the creativity attribute in previous FM's was just a value to represent a player's ability to see a pass, nothing more.
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That's the reason why it was changed, the creaticity attribute in previous Fm's was just a value to represent a player's ability to see a pass, nothing more.

Yeh but vision is more than just being able to spot a pass.

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I disagree with the flair comment.

This is going nowhere.

I disagree with Creativity being removed/renamed to vision, and creativity no longer being there.

Dribbling choices will be affected by decisions and flair.

Same goes for finishing. The strikers with higher flair attributes will try cheeky lobs, outside of the foot shots etc.

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I disagree with the flair comment.

This is going nowhere.

I disagree with Creativity being removed/renamed to vision, and creativity no longer being there.

What are you disagreeing with? What the attribute does within FM or what SI have called it?

At the end of the day the two attributes do exactly the same as they have always done in FM, one of them has just been renamed.

Vision - Ability to see a pass.

Flair - Ability to do something unexpected.

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Well, then Vision is the better term, eple. Movement by teammates is determined by their role, duty and attributes.

Well, yes, and it's definitely so in the game. But it's not what I meant in terms of what creativity is in real life football though.

It's not like a pass is reactionary towards movement. A pass can also encourage movement. You as a playmaker with the ball at your feet can chose to play the ball straight to your team mate, but you can also chose to play it into space, and that pass will cause him to move and perhaps force a shift in the opponents positioning or drag his marker out of place, which will create other open spaces. And that is what creativity means to me.. To be able to see in advance the effect of a pass and use it to create chances.

That's the reason why it was changed, the creativity attribute in previous FM's was just a value to represent a player's ability to see a pass, nothing more.

I can understand coding something like creativity would be very hard. I mean, seemingly, you get a different answer for every football fan you ask. It's an important term in football though, so it's a shame it's been replaced.

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Well, yes, and it's definitely so in the game. But it's not what I meant in terms of what creativity is in real life football though.

It's not like a pass is reactionary towards movement. A pass can also encourage movement. You as a playmaker with the ball at your feet can chose to play the ball straight to your team mate, but you can also chose to play it into space, and that pass will cause him to move and perhaps force a shift in the opponents positioning or drag his marker out of place, which will create other open spaces. And that is what creativity means to me.. To be able to see in advance the effect of a pass and use it to create chances.

All of that is covered in the ability to spot these passing options aka Vision. Whether the teammate sees it, is another question. :D

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No it is not :)

Vision in this game is basically like the beam of a flashlight. The more powerful the beam, the longer the light reaches in distance. It has nothing to do with creativity in football terms.

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No it is not :)

Vision in this game is basically like the beam of a flashlight. The more powerful the beam, the longer the light reaches in distance. It has nothing to do with creativity in football terms.

IMO, if his creativity/vision can spot it, he'll try it depending on his role, duty and other attributes like decisions etc.

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I am clearly not a mothertongue so I had to study in Google the word " Flair ", interesting.

There are half a dozen of meanings, I assume the FM meaning is something like " Fantasy " or " Creativity " but I am keen to think about " Flair " as more something like " sixth sense " ... :confused: ?

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In my view creativity is the ability to create. In footballing terms this is not as simple as in other cases where the name is used.

A creative musician can sit for a year creating his new work and he creates it pretty much out of thin air.

A creative footballer does not create out of thin air, he is presented with a set of opportunities, and is able to pick the correct one in a split second.

The skills needed to present a perfect pass would be something like this:

1. Vision to see as many possible passes as possible.

2. Decicions to decide what pass would be the best.

3. Flair to dare pulling of the more difficult passes.

4. Passing to actually get the ball forward.

That should cover pretty much everything, and a lot of different results could come from different players just by those four choices.

One pretty interesting question I would have loved to see someone check out is this.

Is “creative” players in any way creative? Would a David Silva or a Andrea Pirlo be better at solving creative tasks that is not football related then what a regular fat English defender would?

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Definitions taken directly from the online manual

Flair: A natural talent for the creative and occasional unpredictability. A player with a lot of Flair will be one of the key attacking components in any team but at the same time may need tactical restraint to get the best out of him. Flair and Creativity work well together.

Vision: This refers to a player’s vision and ability to see a potential opening, not necessarily exploit it. A player might be able to see something to take advantage of but also requires the technical proficiency to pull it off.

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Definitions taken directly from the online manual

Flair: A natural talent for the creative and occasional unpredictability. A player with a lot of Flair will be one of the key attacking components in any team but at the same time may need tactical restraint to get the best out of him. Flair and Creativity work well together.

Vision: This refers to a player’s vision and ability to see a potential opening, not necessarily exploit it. A player might be able to see something to take advantage of but also requires the technical proficiency to pull it off.

Well, that's a problem then, because if Flair and Creativity work well together, there is no attribute named "Creativity" any more.

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Ronaldo is a creative player, he creates opportunities to score for himself, and rarely creates goals for other people. 18 Goals and 5 Assists.

Messi is a player with vision and creativity, he creates goals and opportunities for other players, 7 Goals and 7 assists. He's both creative and has great vision.

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Ronaldo is a creative player, he creates opportunities to score for himself, and rarely creates goals for other people. 18 Goals and 5 Assists.

Ronaldo has above average Vision, excellent Flair and average Teamwork attributes. His technical skills are great, especially dribbling and shooting. Coupled with his role, he's going to get more goals than assists.

Messi is a player with vision and creativity, he creates goals and opportunities for other players, 7 Goals and 7 assists. He's both creative and has great vision.

Messi has great Vision, Flair, Teamwork, Passing, Dribbling and Shooting. He's the better team player. Take his role into account as well.

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