Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community

[FM 2016] Ultimate Stars and Legends Game (1880's to 2016)

Fenech
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 minute ago, izagooner said:

Hoped you might say that :thup: no more from me now just going to wait patiently :) Once again a big thanks for all of your effort with this :applause:

thanks mate, i really appreciate the support.... and it means alot. It's good to know that people appreciate it. Well worth the wait :) Boro is next

Link to post
Share on other sites
UpTheBoro

UpTheBoro

Posted
Posted (edited)

Oh my! Despite knowing the incredible effort you put into your database, I kind of assumed Boro would be half-arsed (possibly due to my constant and annoying requests :cool:), but then you screenshot Reggie! You are still clearly putting the research in. Although I've been born and raise on the likes of Juninho, Emerson and Ravanelli, it's amazing to see other have recognised our history.

The uneducated probably don't realise Brian Clough was a record breaking striker before he became one of the most recognisable Managers in history, or that Graeme Souness was voted out greatest ever player, or that Jack Charlton's promotion team was feared by most, or than John Hickton had the hardest shot known to man, or that Wilf Mannion even existed!

....Or, That Christian Vieri still claims that Juninho is the most gifted player he ever played with (and he played with the likes of Ronaldo and Roberto Baggio). If he didn't break his leg in his first year at Atletico Madrid he truly would've been one of the first name in this database, not one of the last.

Anyway, I'm delighted you have decided to include the Mighty Boro in you epic database! You, Sir, Are a LEGEND!!! 
 

EDIT: Sorry for the Borefest, I just love my team!

 

Edited by UpTheBoro
Just because
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
19 minutes ago, UpTheBoro said:

Oh my! Despite knowing the incredible effort you put into your database, I kind of assumed Boro would be half-arsed (possibly due to my constant and annoying requests :cool:), but then you screenshot Reggie! You are still clearly putting the research in. Although I've been born and raise on the likes of Juninho, Emerson and Ravanelli, it's amazing to see other have recognised our history.

The uneducated probably don't realise Brian Clough was a record breaking striker before he became one of the most recognisable Managers in history, or that Graeme Souness was voted out greatest ever player, or that Jack Charlton's promotion team was feared by most, or than John Hickton had the hardest shot known to man, or that Wilf Mannion even existed!

....Or, That Christian Vieri still claims that Juninho is the most gifted player he ever played with (and he played with the likes of Ronaldo and Roberto Baggio). If he didn't break his leg in his first year at Atletico Madrid he truly would've been one of the first name in this database, not one of the last.

Anyway, I'm delighted you have decided to include the Mighty Boro in you epic database! You, Sir, Are a LEGEND!!! 
 

EDIT: Sorry for the Borefest, I just love my team!

 

Each club is heavily researched before they return and i don't do things by halves, so you can expect the best possible middlesbrough team..

What can you tell me about Bernie Slaven? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Geoff Hurst, Bobby Charlton, Ian Rush, Thierry Henry and Cliff Bastin are widely known as some of English football’s most lethal goal scorers. Each has topped the goal-scoring charts, and their record-breaking exploits are regularly mentioned. 

But one name you’re less likely to hear is George Camsell. This is strange, as he has more career goals in English football than any of the players just mentioned by quite a distance.

George Camsell is the boy who just couldn’t stop scoring. He is also largely forgotten – not only by the English game but, some might say, by Middlesbrough FC and its supporters, the same club for which he scored 345 career goals between 1925-1939, including a club record 63 goals in one season.

Outside the Riverside Stadium stand the original gates from the club’s previous home, Ayresome Park. On either side of the gates stand two giant bronze statues, legends of not only Middlesbrough FC, but of England’s national team of years gone by.

One is of former Boro and England forward Wilf Mannion, nicknamed the “Golden Boy”. The other is “gentleman” George Hardwick, England fullback and wartime captain of Great Britain.

RECORD BREAKER…

Absent is the record-breaking Camsell, English football’s fifth-highest goal scorer of all time. He chalked up a club record 345 career goals, with 235 of those coming in the top flight of English football, and had an equally illustrious career with the national team, scoring 18 goals in nine games between 1929-1936. That’s more career and top-flight goals than Charlton, Law, Bastin, Lofthouse, Matthews, Rush, Cole, Henry – and almost everybody else.

So why have most people never heard of Camsell, and why is he not celebrated today?

One obvious reason is the fact that he played so long ago. He started his career at Durham City in 1924-25 and moved to Middlesbrough the following season for £500. Today you will struggle to find anyone living who actually saw him play. Cigarette cards, old photographs, history books and folklore are Camsell’s popular legacy – this, and some grainy footage on YouTube of him scoring for England against Scotland at Wembley, and another clip of him training at Ayresome Park is all there is to be found. Somehow, however, other pre-WW2 players like Dixie Dean, Steve Bloomer, Geordie Favourites Hughie Gallacher and Jackie Milburn are more remembered and revered.

ChartGo-3If the question came up in a pub quiz, most people would probably name Dixie Dean or Jimmy Greaves as English football’s all-time top scorer. In fact, that honour goes to Arthur Rowley, who had 434 career goals between 1946 and 1964, although he is probably not mentioned as much as the better known Dean, Greaves or Steve Bloomer, who follow him in the record books. Remarkably, Camsell, fifth on the list, is only seven goals behind Bloomer and 12 behind Greaves. The number-two all-time top scorer, Dean – the most famous striker of his day – remains as the scorer of the most league goals (60) in a season. And some could argue was also Camsells nemesis.

Regular penalty-taker Dean, who was desperate to surpass Camsell’s record of 59 (set the previous season), broke it during the 1927-28 campaign for Everton, the eventual League champions.

Benny Yorston, George Camsell and Bob Baxter training at Ayresome Park Benny Yorston, George Camsell and Bob Baxter training at Ayresome Park

Camsell himself did not consider penalties to be “proper” goals, so he refused to take them. If another story by an ex-teammate is to be believed, it was because Camsell had missed a penalty earlier in his career and took such a dressing-room ribbing that he vowed never to take another.

But even for Boro fans, plenty of others are mentioned before Camsell. You will hear tales passed down from grandfathers about the local legend, “Golden Boy” Wilf Mannion, who represented Boro between 1936 and 1954, save for the war years when he was off fighting in France and Italy. He scored 99 goals. Or another Boro goal machine, Brain Clough, who played for the club between 1955 and 1961 and scored 197 goals. Local boys Mickey Fenton; Jackie Carr and his brothers; Alan Peacock; and even Alf Common – the first £1000 footballer – are mentioned more often than Camsell. Could it be because Camsell wasn’t born by the Tees, and therefore isn’t thought of as one of the fans’ own?

Even with more modern Tessiders goal-scoring heroes – like John Hickton, Bernie Slaven, Fabrizio Ravenelli and fans favourite Juninho, who was voted the club’s best-ever player by supporters – George Still tops the goal lists in the club’s record books.

ChartGo-1 copy

He took the club to two promotions; was its all-time top scorer (345 goals); scored the most goals in a season (63) for the club; was the top scorer for 10 seasons running; and still holds the record for most hat tricks in a season (9), part of a career total of 24.

As you can see by the chart on the right, Camsell’s goal-scoring record in his 14 seasons with Middlesbrough was phenomenal.

Camsell, from Framwellgate Moor in County Durham, worked in the mines at age 13 and was allegedly originally discovered during a kick-about at the local pit one afternoon during a strike. Legend has it that he didn’t even kick a ball until he was 18.

The versatile Camsell was equally comfortable scoring on a cold wet night on a muddy pitch in the northeast amateur leagues as he was a sunny afternoon on the Wembley baize for England.

BECOMING A LEGEND…

Originally a winger, Camsell’s goal-scoring exploded when he was drafted to replace the injured Jimmy McClelland at the start of 1926-27 during an early-season slump for Boro. After missing the first four games, Camsell managed to bag a record 59 league goals in 37 games (and 63 goals in all competitions) to help make Boro champions. Described by Brian Clough as “the toughest player in the football league” Camsell was a complete all-rounder, able to score with both feet and head regularly from every angle, inside and outside the penalty area.

With the nation’s favourite, Dixie Dean, playing for Everton and Camsell plying his trade in the unglamorous northeast, Dean was seen as the poster boy for English football alongside Cliff Bastin, Arsenal’s own goal machine of Chapman’s glory days. Both were England regulars compared to Camsell. With so few international fixtures compared to modern football and with the England team of the day being picked by an FA committee, it helps explain why Camsell was only picked 9 times over a span of 7 seasons.

imgres-4

If Camsell was playing and scoring goals at the same rate today, he could be playing in the Champions League with Real Madrid or Barcelona, commanding a £50m transfer fee and earning £150k per week. As it was, he lived in a small house on a terraced street within walking distance of Ayresome Park and drove an old Morris Eight car.

Camsell was only 22 when he arrived at Middlesbrough in 1925. He stayed until the end of his career in 1939. Camsell had played away to Liverpool in the second game of the 1939-40 season when WW2 broke out and officially ended football for seven seasons. On Saturday, 3 September 1939, after the third game of the 1939-40 season, all football in Great Britain was halted. War just had been declared, and large gatherings were banned.

WAR YEARS AND AFTER FOOTBALL…

But some football did continue of course. Camsell continued to represent Boro in northern leagues and cups for a further three years, until the 1941-42 season. He appeared 28 times and scored a further 19 goals while playing with Mannion, Harold Shepherdson and guest players including Matt Busby from Liverpool. Camsell would have been approaching 40 years of age the last time represented Middlesbrough.

After his playing days, Camsell worked for the club as a coach, chief scout and assistant secretary before retiring in December 1963. On his retirement, he was presented with a television as a thank-you for dedicating four decades of his life to the Middlesbrough Football Club.

In March 1966, George Camsell died in the town’s General Hospital, adjacent to Ayresome Park where he had scored so many goals – close enough to hear the roar of the Holgate end one last time. He was 63 years old.

It’s highly unlikely that any of Camsell’s goal-scoring records will ever be broken for MFC. He is that standout player from a club’s past who did something extremely special and should not be forgotten.

Newcastle fans still worship Wor’ Jackie Milburn. Everton still speak of Dixie Dean, and Derby celebrate Steve Bloomer. Middlesbrough should keep the memory of George Camsell alive and celebrate his amazing legacy and what he once did for this great football club. We should also follow suit and erect a statue for the club’s greatest goal scorer in its 139-year history – not just to celebrate, but to inspire others to do the same. Still, we may never see his like again.

Some bigger clubs claim that smaller clubs lack history. Well, Middlesbrough certainly has some history, all right. They just don’t shout about it !

Ladies and Gentleman - I am proud to present, the finest striker ever to play in Middlesbrough, the finest england striker you never heard of,

THE BOY WHO COULDN'T STOP SCORING!

 

G1.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bittah Dreamer

Bittah Dreamer

Posted
Posted

I know you have your own way of looking at these things, but are some of the U.K. Based players not a little over powered?

 

E.g. Ivan Campo has 180 CA/PA and 20 for passing? He was a good player for Bolton - but he still wasn't one of the top players in the league at that time. And he was mainly a squad player at Madrid, with only 4 caps for Spain (at a time when they weren't as strong as they have been in recent years). 

Robin Friday had the same CA and PA as Pippo Inzaghi. While Friday might have been an very talented player, he was uncapped and played at 4th, 3rd and second division levels and even then his record comes nothing close to Inzaghi's (league, continental and international titles). 

 

I realsie inzaghi wasnt wasn't an around player so his stats can only go so high, and not arguing he should be higher. Rather that a player untested at the highest levels and without an international recognition shouldn't be so high. 

Perhaps a lower CA with a high PA to reflect his wasted potential. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bittah Dreamer said:

I know you have your own way of looking at these things, but are some of the U.K. Based players not a little over powered?

 

E.g. Ivan Campo has 180 CA/PA and 20 for passing? He was a good player for Bolton - but he still wasn't one of the top players in the league at that time. And he was mainly a squad player at Madrid, with only 4 caps for Spain (at a time when they weren't as strong as they have been in recent years). 

Robin Friday had the same CA and PA as Pippo Inzaghi. While Friday might have been an very talented player, he was uncapped and played at 4th, 3rd and second division levels and even then his record comes nothing close to Inzaghi's (league, continental and international titles). 

 

I realsie inzaghi wasnt wasn't an around player so his stats can only go so high, and not arguing he should be higher. Rather that a player untested at the highest levels and without an international recognition shouldn't be so high. 

Perhaps a lower CA with a high PA to reflect his wasted potential. 

Hi Bittah,

As you know I recoded the whole game and we had all these debates out in 2014

I have a totally different way of viewing the ratings system to SI.

However i am always willing to listen... I don't think any player is overpowered based on my ratings system... however no-one is perfect especially in a database of this size.

You have to take into consideration that every single player is heavily researched before a rating and stat is given and unlike some players in the normal game, no player that I have coded is left to chance...

Ivan Campo was a great player and imo a 20 for passing... now you have to bear in mind that there is more than one stat for each player and the stats must be balanced within a certain current ability and therefore you can't be exact, but you can be as realistic as possible and there are so many factors that must be taken into consideration before applying each stat to a player.

I don't create a player to suit a certain role, I dont create a player based on who they played for and how much they achieved in their careers, as there are many players in the case of ivan campo who might not have had the luck to be at the right at the right time and we all know how many titles shearer would have won had he gone to united. campo mate was a great player.

I create the players only after heavily researching them and i give the stat as realistic as possible based on my ratings system which i created, and in 2014 i explained this and I explained that I believe the players is a bigger difference in the top 10 per cent, than in the 10 per cent below that and below that.... 

My ratings system is mathematically  based for ability and potential and i prefer it to the ratings system in the normal game.

I have raised Inzaghis potential ability slightly and he is now 22 instead of 24.

I am leaving campo alone.

In terms friday, 180 is still 20 below the best possible 20, and in my opinion those 20 points are bigger than the 20 point that go down to 160..

so to give you an idea of my mind, 155-165 is more championship player.

180 is a good international player, so after researching friday, he had that ability mate, but where inzaghi has a massive adv is he got the lucky breaks, he has a much better personality, id be surprised if friday wasnt more of a liability than anything else.

You can t just base it on the career, there are many players unheard who were simply unbelievable because they just didnt have that career, but when i research i search everywhere and i find out everything or i dont create the player... and every player is created exactly as much as possible to the exact ability and potential of the player and they start again and this time maybe other players get the breaks instead and i try to be as fair as possible within my ratings system.

so the question i ask you, is the players in the normal game underrated? that is a matter of opinion...

i am happy with my version of the ratings and its mathematical system. :)

Edited by Fenech
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 minutes ago, CasperAscanius said:

I dont understand why Ebbe Sand not be find good enough to be in Schalke 04. Many people from Denmarks Euro Squad from 1984 and 1992 and World Cup Squad from 1986 and 1998 also missing :( . Many stars on this teams 

 

send me the names of the players and ill add them to my list mate.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Leitch91

Leitch91

Posted
Posted

Just downloaded this, loving the look of it so far! 

Is there any chance of increasing the legends in the Hibernian side? Stanton, Bremner & Reilly are there however there are a number of players I would love to see in there having had a look at some of the players you have included for other SPFL teams (Hearts, Celtic, Rangers & Aberdeen)

Joe Baker, Eddie Turnbull, Willie Ormand, Gordon Smith, Bobby Johnstone, Keith Wright, Franck Sauzee, David Murphy, Erich Shaedler, Peter Cormack, Jimmy O'Rourke, Russell Latapy, Derek Riordan, John Blackley, Arthur Duncan, Pat McGinlay, Rob Jones, John Hughes, Gordon Rae, Gordon Hunter, Mickey Weir, Andy Goram, Jim Leighton to name just a couple :D. 

I cannot even begin to understand how much time/effort has been put into a database like this and can only thank you for taking the time to do so and I would absolutely love it if you could include those players as well! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 minutes ago, Leitch91 said:

Just downloaded this, loving the look of it so far! 

Is there any chance of increasing the legends in the Hibernian side? Stanton, Bremner & Reilly are there however there are a number of players I would love to see in there having had a look at some of the players you have included for other SPFL teams (Hearts, Celtic, Rangers & Aberdeen)

Joe Baker, Eddie Turnbull, Willie Ormand, Gordon Smith, Bobby Johnstone, Keith Wright, Franck Sauzee, David Murphy, Erich Shaedler, Peter Cormack, Jimmy O'Rourke, Russell Latapy, Derek Riordan, John Blackley, Arthur Duncan, Pat McGinlay, Rob Jones, John Hughes, Gordon Rae, Gordon Hunter, Mickey Weir, Andy Goram, Jim Leighton to name just a couple :D. 

I cannot even begin to understand how much time/effort has been put into a database like this and can only thank you for taking the time to do so and I would absolutely love it if you could include those players as well! 

I'll add these and hibernian to my list :thup:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Leitch91 said:

Excellent, thanks a lot! Do you want me to break them down by position? Is it easier for you to have a squad of some sort to put together? Sorry for the questions!

If you want to suggest 25 players with a balance of playing positions since 1880 then you can do, i will be heavily researching them myself as well, so that we can find the best possible team for them since 1880

Edited by Fenech
Link to post
Share on other sites
Leitch91

Leitch91

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Fenech said:

If you want to suggest 25 players with a balance of playing positions since 1880 then you can do, i will be heavily researching them myself as well, so that we can find the best possible team for them since 1880

I'll do that no problem, would you prefer me to PM or just post in here?

Link to post
Share on other sites
CasperAscanius

CasperAscanius

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Fenech said:

send me the names of the players and ill add them to my list mate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1984_squads . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1992_squads  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FIFA_World_Cup_squads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_FIFA_World_Cup_squads 

 

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbe_Sand  - info about Sand and his Schalke stats 

I also seen Martin Jørgensen plays for Inter but he has only played in Udinese an Fiorentina in Italy :) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 hours ago, CasperAscanius said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1984_squads . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1992_squads  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FIFA_World_Cup_squads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_FIFA_World_Cup_squads 

 

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbe_Sand  - info about Sand and his Schalke stats 

I also seen Martin Jørgensen plays for Inter but he has only played in Udinese an Fiorentina in Italy :) 

I have checked and Martin Jorgensen plays for Udinese.. so I dont know maybe inter signed him?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bittah Dreamer

Bittah Dreamer

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Fenech said:

Hi Bittah,

As you know I recoded the whole game and we had all these debates out in 2014

I have a totally different way of viewing the ratings system to SI.

However i am always willing to listen... I don't think any player is overpowered based on my ratings system... however no-one is perfect especially in a database of this size.

You have to take into consideration that every single player is heavily researched before a rating and stat is given and unlike some players in the normal game, no player that I have coded is left to chance...

Ivan Campo was a great player and imo a 20 for passing... now you have to bear in mind that there is more than one stat for each player and the stats must be balanced within a certain current ability and therefore you can't be exact, but you can be as realistic as possible and there are so many factors that must be taken into consideration before applying each stat to a player.

I don't create a player to suit a certain role, I dont create a player based on who they played for and how much they achieved in their careers, as there are many players in the case of ivan campo who might not have had the luck to be at the right at the right time and we all know how many titles shearer would have won had he gone to united. campo mate was a great player.

I create the players only after heavily researching them and i give the stat as realistic as possible based on my ratings system which i created, and in 2014 i explained this and I explained that I believe the players is a bigger difference in the top 10 per cent, than in the 10 per cent below that and below that.... 

My ratings system is mathematically  based for ability and potential and i prefer it to the ratings system in the normal game.

I have raised Inzaghis potential ability slightly and he is now 22 instead of 24.

I am leaving campo alone.

In terms friday, 180 is still 20 below the best possible 20, and in my opinion those 20 points are bigger than the 20 point that go down to 160..

so to give you an idea of my mind, 155-165 is more championship player.

180 is a good international player, so after researching friday, he had that ability mate, but where inzaghi has a massive adv is he got the lucky breaks, he has a much better personality, id be surprised if friday wasnt more of a liability than anything else.

You can t just base it on the career, there are many players unheard who were simply unbelievable because they just didnt have that career, but when i research i search everywhere and i find out everything or i dont create the player... and every player is created exactly as much as possible to the exact ability and potential of the player and they start again and this time maybe other players get the breaks instead and i try to be as fair as possible within my ratings system.

so the question i ask you, is the players in the normal game underrated? that is a matter of opinion...

i am happy with my version of the ratings and its mathematical system. :)

I know we had this debate in 2014 and in know you believe in the system you have  its your DB and with the work youve done it's definitely your call to make  

 

without knowing your system, I still have to disagree with this. Regardless of how you've coded it, mathematically or otherwise, it's still ultimately a highly subjective call on what a players ability is - and no matter how you do it people will have differing views.  

 

Personally though I do think that there might be an element of over romanticisation here. 

 

Ivan Campo's stats put him at world class level - but he was never that. You say he didn't have the luck to be at the right place at the right time - but he was. He was at Real Madrid, but wasn't good enough to establish himself. As you say, 180 is a good international player - he wasn't that though as he only 4 caps testify to. His present stats suggest one of the best defenders of his era - but I have never seen anybody credibly claim that. 

 

You can't compare him to Shearer - not only did he actually perform to an exceptional lever, the only reason he never made it to a "big" club is because he didn't want (though his move to then money bags Blackburn was hardly small time). It's well documented that Ferguson tried to sign him but got knocked back repeatedly. 

 

Equally with Friday - he started off with big clubs but for whatever reason he couldn't make it there. He had the chance to prove himself but couldn't take it - whether that was due to attitude or ability I can't tell. 

 

You our can argue he was capable of plying international football but we have know way of knowing if he could have replicated his Div 4 or 3 form there. It's one thing to impress in the lower leagues playing with relatively weak defenders and make things look easy - it's another to do it when faced with elite defenders. 

 

When I raised Pippo Inzaghi, I wasn't saying he needed a bump - because I think 180 suits him. He was a legendary player - but he wasn't an all round player. He was a phenomenal goal scorer and penalty box player, and did a few things to the very highest level - but was otherwise limited. 

 

But it one thing about Inzaghi is that we know he was tested at the very highest levels and passes with flying colours. It's ine thing to do it against a Division 4 defence - it's another to do it against the likes of the very best defences in what was then an extremely competitive Italian league with notorious defensive talents.

 

It's harder to score 10 goals in the premiership than it is to score 20 in Division 4, so just because he did it in the alter division doesn't mean he could have done it in the latter. The ste up is huge - ask Jamie Vardy. It took him time to adjust to the step ups in his career and his first season in the premiership was prett meh.

So if Friday was to thrive in the premiership or at international level he would have needed to step up his game - to learn how to compete against better, stronger, more disciplined and tactically aware defenders  - and do so on a one of basis. What he did in Division 3 wasn't good enough for division one (as it was then).

 

Perhaps he could have made the step up - but performing at that lower level isn't sufficient to say he was as good as top level internationals and European players. 

 

If if you had given him a lower CA and the potential to get to the top, I would agree as it would be acknowleding that he was an unfulfilled talent with the potential to reach the top. Of course to realistically reflect him, he mental attributes would mean he would likely never reach that (much like the way Ravel Morrison never turns good in FM despite his potential). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Bittah Dreamer said:

I know we had this debate in 2014 and in know you believe in the system you have  its your DB and with the work youve done it's definitely your call to make  

 

without knowing your system, I still have to disagree with this. Regardless of how you've coded it, mathematically or otherwise, it's still ultimately a highly subjective call on what a players ability is - and no matter how you do it people will have differing views.  

 

Personally though I do think that there might be an element of over romanticisation here. 

 

Ivan Campo's stats put him at world class level - but he was never that. You say he didn't have the luck to be at the right place at the right time - but he was. He was at Real Madrid, but wasn't good enough to establish himself. As you say, 180 is a good international player - he wasn't that though as he only 4 caps testify to. His present stats suggest one of the best defenders of his era - but I have never seen anybody credibly claim that. 

 

You can't compare him to Shearer - not only did he actually perform to an exceptional lever, the only reason he never made it to a "big" club is because he didn't want (though his move to then money bags Blackburn was hardly small time). It's well documented that Ferguson tried to sign him but got knocked back repeatedly. 

 

Equally with Friday - he started off with big clubs but for whatever reason he couldn't make it there. He had the chance to prove himself but couldn't take it - whether that was due to attitude or ability I can't tell. 

 

You our can argue he was capable of plying international football but we have know way of knowing if he could have replicated his Div 4 or 3 form there. It's one thing to impress in the lower leagues playing with relatively weak defenders and make things look easy - it's another to do it when faced with elite defenders. 

 

When I raised Pippo Inzaghi, I wasn't saying he needed a bump - because I think 180 suits him. He was a legendary player - but he wasn't an all round player. He was a phenomenal goal scorer and penalty box player, and did a few things to the very highest level - but was otherwise limited. 

 

But it one thing about Inzaghi is that we know he was tested at the very highest levels and passes with flying colours. It's ine thing to do it against a Division 4 defence - it's another to do it against the likes of the very best defences in what was then an extremely competitive Italian league with notorious defensive talents.

 

It's harder to score 10 goals in the premiership than it is to score 20 in Division 4, so just because he did it in the alter division doesn't mean he could have done it in the latter. The ste up is huge - ask Jamie Vardy. It took him time to adjust to the step ups in his career and his first season in the premiership was prett meh.

So if Friday was to thrive in the premiership or at international level he would have needed to step up his game - to learn how to compete against better, stronger, more disciplined and tactically aware defenders  - and do so on a one of basis. What he did in Division 3 wasn't good enough for division one (as it was then).

 

Perhaps he could have made the step up - but performing at that lower level isn't sufficient to say he was as good as top level internationals and European players. 

 

If if you had given him a lower CA and the potential to get to the top, I would agree as it would be acknowleding that he was an unfulfilled talent with the potential to reach the top. Of course to realistically reflect him, he mental attributes would mean he would likely never reach that (much like the way Ravel Morrison never turns good in FM despite his potential). 

Hi Brittah,

I don't think there is that much difference in the way we view things. Nor is there that much difference between the way I code the players and the players are normally coded although I do prefer my mathematical system and ratings system.

Upon reflection you are right about campo, perhaps i am being a bit romantic in regards to him, i would normally have put him at 170, and that is where he is now.

In regards to Filipo, i was right in the first place to put him at 180 and that is where he is now.. 

In regards to Friday, I was imagining what he would have become, but then he would of had a totally different personality and as you said would have had to make the leap up in class maybe two or three times,,,, so with that in mind he is now 14 at reading with a potential of 175 to give him a better chance of reaching it... although as you said with that personality i doubt he will now.

even though i strongly believe in my method and ratings system, i am always willing to listen to constructive feedback and change things if necessary. i am not a closed book by any means of the imagination. Even though this is my project, it is also the communities project because this thing is bigger than you or I. It has to be right and im not surprised with over 2048 legends and stars & Counting if we get one or two that need adjusting. 

Thanks for the feedback... :thup:

Edited by Fenech
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

1 hour ago, Citizen Kane said:

I tried to avoid spoilers on PA's etc, but I do have to say knowing Campo was a 180 made me feel a little sick inside lol, he was not a wonderful player.

Fair enough, he is a 170 and that is what i normally would have given him, i have no idea why i gave him 180, but problem solved..  :thup:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Forest

Forest

Posted
Posted (edited)

@ Fenech

 

what skin are you using on all your screens?

 

edit: I saw now, you didn´t  include John Toshack from Liverpool? And Ray Clemence at Tottenham?  He´s a real Liverpool legend :)

Edited by Forest
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
22 minutes ago, Forest said:

@ Fenech

 

what skin are you using on all your screens?

 

edit: I saw now, you didn´t  include John Toshack from Liverpool? And Ray Clemence at Tottenham?  He´s a real Liverpool legend :)

John is on my list and ray clemence is there, but he is at Tottenham :)

You have to appreciate that liverpool have two fine keepers in elisha scott, the best of them and bruce grobbelaar, they dont need a third one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 minutes ago, Forest said:

yes I understand, but Clemence is my all time favorite so I signed him ;) Ray Kennedy maybe also missing, but otherwise very good squad at Liverpool ;)

 

btw what Skin are you using? ;) 

Ray Kennedy is on my list

I use the ICON only SIDEBAR (MOD) skin.

Link to post
Share on other sites
UpTheBoro

UpTheBoro

Posted
Posted

Sorry Fenech, totally missed your post asking for information on Bernie Slaven. Glad you've found what you need.

Funnily enough, I was sat next to him and had a little chat with him in Pizza Hut last Wednesday (he's always in Pizza Hut!).

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted
8 hours ago, UpTheBoro said:

Sorry Fenech, totally missed your post asking for information on Bernie Slaven. Glad you've found what you need.

Funnily enough, I was sat next to him and had a little chat with him in Pizza Hut last Wednesday (he's always in Pizza Hut!).

next time you see him you can tell him he is playing again! lol

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fenech

Fenech

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Hey Guys, 

First of all there will be an update before the final update soon.

This update will include the following changes, but not limited to:

* A Full 25 man Middlesbrough Team

* All starting finances back to normal 

* Wage expectations of players lowered substantially and much more reasonable

* Players will cost slightly less to purchase too.

* Middlesbrough now in the premiership with Southampton dropping down to the championship

* Wages lowered across the board to reflect the drop in player/agent expectations.

Also I need to finish this project so with that in mind I will be taking no more requests for players or teams. as i have enough as it is now. 

Once this update is released, there will be one final update and then that will be it. There will be no further updates. my work will be over.

Edited by Fenech
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...