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Neil Brock

Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.1.3

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It's not a bug, Alex .. it's a fundamental design flaw .. ;) .. it's been there since day 1 and has often been brought up on these forums yet never gets addressed .. Jeez .. it took 5 years before something as obvious as regens got sorted out, so I'm not holding my breath ..
You can help iron out those flaws by posting in the bugs forum. Football produces many opinions & if you take the time to put yours forward in a constructive manner in the match engine forum then they will be listened to so long as you evidence your position with examples from matches. Posting in here that you believe the match engine to be flawed is fine & there is no requirement for you to take it any further but that does mean there is always a chance that your specific issues will not be picked up by anyone else because they do not share your opinion.
Simply - there isn't anywhere near enough feedback available to compensate for the match engine not being able to accurately portray what's going on .. people need to know about the oppositions tempo, their mentality, closing down, passing .. basically, they need to "see" the oppositions team / player instructions (masked, possibly, based on the players Tactical rating). Stuff that is obvious when watching a real life game, yet can't be accurately portrayed by the match engine.
Out of interest what view & highlight mode do you watch the matches in?

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I can't remember if it has been mentioned - but there is a serious problem with free kicks... A lot of the times several players seem to stand in offside positions inside the opposition's penalty area waiting for the kick resulting in the inevitable offside whistle...

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Compare his infraction numbers to yours - Daggers gets his comeuppance quite often :thup:

And I got mine by having a few choice words with him due to his lippy answers

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I could live with that if

1. It didn’t happen at least once in every game to one side or the other.

2. It’s always defenders who jump and miss never attackers, they just run onto the ball.

3. Its never both players as you might expect.

4. it always results in a goal attempt and

5. Whether it is or isn’t in reality it nevertheless looks scripted because of 1,2,3 and 4.

Please log examples demonstrating 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 to the Bugs Forum them please, because you seem to have some experience of the issue.

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IRL you can ask players to do lots of things but I guarantee that when out on the pitch they will not do it all the time and its unrealistic to expect them to either IRL or in FM.

Yet when a manager tells a team to go all out attack the last 10 minutes, they do it without flinching and do exactly what they are told despite being stuck in a defensive mentality for the previous 80 minutes .. which is the exact point I'm making.

Now what teams can do is just pump balls into the box and hope something drops - which you see often but is not really productive and rarely successful - the odd time, maybe - but rarely 3 times in 10 minutes .. but changing their entire mentality and playing style to a fast attacking in your face style of football where they cut through a previously impregnable defence with impunity just because the manager changes tactics from "park the bus", is not realistic and rarely happens - their entire mentality has been stuck in "park the bus" mode for 80 minutes, they've been battered to hell and are 3-0 down .. in real life, players aren't robots (or little blocks of AI controlled pixels) .. yet in FM, drastic changes in mentality like that happen instantly and without any confusion from the players.

A 15 minute team talk at half-time CAN change a mentality from 1 extreme to the other .. but a "go all out attack now, lads" shout from the touchline rarely changes things to the extent you see in FM. Again, players aren't robots - yet in FM, they can easily switch from one thing to another way too easily.

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Yet when a manager tells a team to go all out attack the last 10 minutes, they do it without flinching and do exactly what they are told despite being stuck in a defensive mentality for the previous 80 minutes .. which is the exact point I'm making.

Now what teams can do is just pump balls into the box and hope something drops - which you see often but is not really productive and rarely successful - the odd time, maybe - but rarely 3 times in 10 minutes .. but changing their entire mentality and playing style to a fast attacking in your face style of football where they cut through a previously impregnable defence with impunity just because the manager changes tactics from "park the bus", is not realistic and rarely happens - their entire mentality has been stuck in "park the bus" mode for 80 minutes, they've been battered to hell and are 3-0 down .. in real life, players aren't robots (or little blocks of AI controlled pixels) .. yet in FM, drastic changes in mentality like that happen instantly and without any confusion from the players.

A 15 minute team talk at half-time CAN change a mentality from 1 extreme to the other .. but a "go all out attack now, lads" shout from the touchline rarely changes things to the extent you see in FM. Again, players aren't robots - yet in FM, they can easily switch from one thing to another way too easily.

I think you are misunderstanding mentality with instructions.

In FM the AI manager might give more attacking instructions, examples could be giving the fullbacks more freedom to push forward or playing more direct balls forwards. How well that succeeds depends how your team adapts to this change. If its successful and the AI team start to get possession/shots etc then it boosts their player's confidence to some degree. If you shut them down and don't give them a sniff then confidence is still low and they rarely threaten.

If you set your team & tactics up well then the extremes you keep talking about should rarely happen. Looking back at my saves over the last few versions I could show you plenty of examples where I shut teams out on a regular basis.

Its about understanding your team and what they can do, understanding the opposition and making the right choices. As has been pointed out by others going defensive isn't always the right choice, there are other options such as keeping on attacking to keep the opposition on the backfoot or controlling possession and playing keep ball.

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You can help iron out those flaws by posting in the bugs forum. Football produces many opinions & if you take the time to put yours forward in a constructive manner in the match engine forum then they will be listened to so long as you evidence your position with examples from matches. Posting in here that you believe the match engine to be flawed is fine & there is no requirement for you to take it any further but that does mean there is always a chance that your specific issues will not be picked up by anyone else because they do not share your opinion.

Out of interest what view & highlight mode do you watch the matches in?

To be fair, Alex - I've been banging on about this for years. Again, I don't see it as a bug or match engine problem, it's a football psychology problem / game related problem. Read my above post about shifts in mentality .. in real life, it never ever happens as easily as it does in FM. Simply put : a touchline shout (or even a series of them) is never and should never be as effective and / or immediate as a pre-match tactical plan or, to a lesser extent, a half-time reshuffle .. Why spend a week working on match preparation if you can instantly switch to a completely different way of playing, mindset, mentality - with all intricate instructions included - and have the players carry it out perfectly to your wishes without any confusion, with a few shouts from the touchline? It doesn't work like that and nor should it.

Yes, teams CAN change mentality and little tweaks here and there can have an impact and nullify certain threats from the opposition or expose a weakness, but entire shifts in tactics, or shifts from from one extreme to the other, that completely negates the opposition offensive / defensive tactics in one instantaneous swoop is not realistic.

I'll finish off with a theoretical example given already : Man City vs Burnley .. Burnley park the bus for 80 minutes, yet still find themselves 3-0 down after being battered .. firstly, would Sean Dyche suddenly tell Burnley to switch into all-out-attack mode for the last 10 minutes to "try and get a result"? Highly highly unlikely - but that's another discussion. But if he did, would Pellegrini say : "OMG! Burnley have gone all Barca on us - we'd best switch to 4-5-1 defensive and grind this last 10 minutes out!!"?

In FM you ALWAYS have to do that when the Dog & Duck go into Barca mode. If you carry on regardless, like what good teams do against the poor ones, you get tagged back. If not all the way, but certainly it's squeky bum time.

I've had games where I've been leading 7-0 (with TNS is the Welsh leagues where after a season or two, you're players are so far ahead of the opposition it gets boring), the opposiiton have switched to Barca mode for the last 10 or 15 minutes, and without changing tactics (so bored, I couldn't be bothered) games have ended up 7-3 or 7-4 .. psychologically speaking, it's just not realistic but the goals come about because of treacle runners, moonwalkers and defenders ducking under headers .. They haven't done any of those things the previous 80 minutes but only when the opposition have switched to Barca mode.

----

Highlight mode - mostly Extended, but Comprehensive in "big games".

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It's back to a computer game and game football argument. A professional footballer who plays central defense, for instance, shouldn't have to look to the touchline for instructions when an opposition team suddenly starts being more direct. If he needs to, he needs booting out of the club. He does the right thing automatically - even the "poor" ones. He trained and played that role his entire life - he doesn't need to be told how to defend against a team who's switched to a more direct game.

Yes, a rampaging full back might need to be told to curb his enthusiasm - but, if (in FM parlance) he's in a support role, he should be clever enough to say "oh hang on, I'd better hang back a bit more" without being told to and will nullify certain threats auto-magically without the managers input. It's football positional basics. if he is still rampaging forward (or if he holds back but the manager wants him to still push on) then instruction is necessary. Again, we're back here to lumping every pass to a 7 foot tall striker - as you rightly said, players will make a judgement in real life regardless in what the manager says. Yet in FM, that rampaging fullback suddenly needs baby-sitting.

In real life, a defense under constant pressure will - without any manager input (or despite it) - gradually drop deeper and deeper .. it's not tactical, the manager is screaming at them to push up, yet they won't. They might a little bit, but will drop off again. The risk / reward part of their brain is telling them that it's safer to drop off ("backing off from a threat") no matter what the manager is telling them. Only the truly strong minded defenders can hold the line.

Yet in FM - you or the AI tells them to have the defensive line here or there, they'll stick to it religiously. And this is the point I'm making all through this .. Players are not robots. They can't or won't do exactly what they are told to do. They won't fully understand. They'll misinterpret. They'll say "sod that". They'll make their own judgement based on their skill and experience. Their mental state will dictate what they do or don't do. A team battered for 80 minutes will very very rarely switch into Barca mode just because their manager asks them to. When heads drop they don't come back up easily. And if they do, they won't do it exactly like the manager asked let alone have the actual skills necessary to do what they are being asked.

Yet the Dog & Duck can do it as soon as their manager clicks his fingers. And that's not realistic.

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first of all, sorry for my english....

So i was playing with hajduk split 4 seasons, and had to leave because every match i had to make at least 2 subs because players got injured (not knocks but injured).

I report it and got answer it is because of my tactis, match fitness or pitch condition...it's not my tactics because i always play the same way and never have that

problem before or after, it's not match fitness because i never send player to play with less than 90% match fitness, so the only posibbility is pitch condition,

but again almost every game I had 2 or more injuries, it's not like that in RL...

I accept the job at Feyenoord and i'm now in the second season there, and there is few ridiculous situations...I just lost in the first game of the 2nd knockout round against monaco 1:2 and i can win the league in next match, and i did just that...in the interview after match they asked me how do i feel after winning Europe League with team like Feyenoord (something like that), and 2 questions after the asked me "Are you i dissapointed for being knockout from EL against Monaco" (still have to play one game against monaco)...but this doesn't bother me a lot...

Just one day after we won the league 3 of my key players are unhappy because i didn't let them go to play for other teams, but no offers came to my club...they got offers in january but I refuse them and promise them CL, and i kept that promise by winning the league...so my team wants to talk to me because I didn't let them go, team moral is now very low because of stupid bug and i need to sell those players, key players because of the bug....

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Re: setting opposition instructions.

Anyway to move the options (Tight Marking, Closing Down, etc) CLOSER to the players name to that we don't have to keep an eye on the player and then carefully look across the screen? I know there are 2 interchanging shades, however they are fairly similar in color and makes it hard.

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Don't know what to make of this really but..

Currently in my 5th season.

Apparently the most reputable club on my save is Porto.

Benfica have won every single division title since my save started. Porto have never got past the last 16 of the champions league. Haven't won any Europa Leagues, haven't made any marquee signings. Are 12th on the Rich List, with their league sitting at 6th

So how basically.

For the second year running they are the most reputable club.

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In real life, a defense under constant pressure will - without any manager input (or despite it) - gradually drop deeper and deeper .. it's not tactical, the manager is screaming at them to push up, yet they won't. They might a little bit, but will drop off again. The risk / reward part of their brain is telling them that it's safer to drop off ("backing off from a threat") no matter what the manager is telling them. Only the truly strong minded defenders can hold the line.

That's an interesting thought actually. Taking it further, complete tactical changes can be made a huge number of times during a match with ease (whether that is helpful is another thing). However, your general observations about teams turning into "Barca" by an (AI manager's) click of his finger tips I cannot relate to. Firstly, the game tracks a player's and teams' motivation, which changes accordingly to dynamic match situations (refereeing decisions, fouls, individual error, most importantly, goals) and can depend on player's personalities (see the body language feedback). Unless there is a bug, most teams getting "tonked" are at a severe disadvantage at that point. If the effect of morale are handled similarily to match prep training and similar (they likely are), they cause a dynamic boost/hit directly to players' attributes.

However none of those cause attributes to change wildly. Secondly, all the instructions in FM are encouragements. Just because anybody clicks "overload" (or even "attack") doesn't mean he'll get to witness countless of highlights in the coming minutes (in particular in isolation, as player roles and duties and general positioning don't change itself via just changing the "strategies", the result might well be an opponent gifted balls coming his way and nothing at all happening anymore until the final whistle's blown). There will be more risk involved, and more forward passes and pushing in general, which is something else completely. But the worse team trying to do so won't suddenly run circles around the winning team just because. Wich means: There are no buttons that puts any AI team into "Barca" mode. There can and could be issues with the motivations being bugged however, if this really persists and isn't merely a mind playing tricks on you (FM is that kind of game where perception bias can cloud sensible analysis). With sides essentially being finished at that point, this isn't comparable to a battered side occasionally growing in confidence as long as they still persist the bombardment (and increasing their chances to hit a lucky punch), which FM tries to simulate too.

There have always been fishy theories about how the match calculation actually works, some of the worst offenders including the game calculating a gore is scored and then the engine drumming up a arbitrary sequence of animations to suit a result, essentially getting it all in reverse. The official word is though, and I have never seen anything that would support otherwise, is that from kick off it's a sequence by sequence thing in chronological order, and naturally, right from the first pass, even reloads will play out differently. So there might be something to it, however I have a hard time imagining a side getting tonked suddenly turning into "Barca", unless the dynamics that naturally follow such a simulation would cause an unintentionally huge boost to the side getting tonked every once in a match (there are players that actually react fierce and motivated after being a couple goals down, but evenso, as with any boosts, the effect of that isn't anywhere near to that degree). That you could class as bug though.

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couldnt find a thread, but is anyone concerned about the amount of goals that come from right hand side crosses?

I was reading about creating tactics and a guy said most of his goals were coming from the right

I play 4 3 3 (narrow 3 cm's 3 fc/st) and a serious amount of my goals are coming from right hand side crosses, albeit I have my right back on 'wb/attack'

Whats the consensus, expolioty or just chance

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Just don't make patches after Beta, FM 14 was better on Beta, FM 15 was better on Beta. It's a consensus that Beta is the best FM version you can provide in the last years.

Or make a way for who wants to reverse to a previous version, it would be perfection.

And look a little for lower league players, don't make a game that works different for those trying to play with Liverpool for then trying to play with Corby Town.

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Re: setting opposition instructions.

Anyway to move the options (Tight Marking, Closing Down, etc) CLOSER to the players name to that we don't have to keep an eye on the player and then carefully look across the screen? I know there are 2 interchanging shades, however they are fairly similar in color and makes it hard.

you can adjust the column widths.

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hello, I'm trying to update the game, I am playing .1.3 version and I can't find Martin Odengaard in my game. How do i update?

As per the thread title, your game is up to date. You can find the add-on in the Steam Workshop either by logging in from your browser or going to Downloads in FM.

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I hope to implement a third party club to be able to offer whilst buying young or any players like being able to say to the club that this young player could be loaned at other clubs but next season he will be going to my club

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Anyone find lateral movement of players is worse in FM15 than it was in 14? I love the narrow diamond and used it in FM14 but can't get it to work in FM15 as for some reason lateral movement in players seems worse than it was in `14. There seems no way to get the midfield two to cover wide and have tried several roles in the CM positions. This leaves the wing backs extremely isolated. May have something to do with the central midfield bunching together which I read about somewhere. The forwards seem the same seemingly rarely pulling wide so the front three get extremely bunched offering no width. It seems that "move into channels" is about "vertical movement" between the lines according to the description which could be half the problem. I find players using that PI seem to run away from the ball whereas I think "move into channels" should be lateral movement to the width of the pitch. Maybe a shout of "play wider" would help I haven't yet tried that.

Vertical movement doesn't seem much better. After trying out many ideas over the course of a season I really find it difficult to get attacking midfielders to defend and midfielders in the CM strata to attack. The lack of movement makes it look like all roles play the same.

It is annoying because I thought player movement was high on the list of improvements?

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A few ME considerations (IMO)

1 - The volume of goals where the ball comes flying back out. Very few goals in the modern game have that metal bar at the back of the net which when hit cause the ball to come rolling back out of the goal; yet in FM any hard hit shot that goes in seems to come flying back out rather than nestling in the back of the net

2 - The length of time keepers take to get up and get beaten by the angled shot - totally get that lots of times keepers make the save only to be beaten by someone else tucking it away but this particular one seems to be too prevalent. I don't have any stats but i'd assume that the majority of rebound goals are when the keeper doesn't push it wide i.e. back into the crowd for someone to tuck away. Keepers are taught to push it as wide as possible and I'd expect that the majority of wide rebounded shots are blocked for corners etc

3 - Wingers/Strikers etc shooting from the byline. They jink in, they are forced wide and yes sometimes they shoot BUT in the majority of cases footballers are bright enough to know they won't score so they pull it back even if they don't know their player is there because its more dangerous than their inevitable missed shot. In FM though they shoot EVERYTIME and I think this is something that needs to be tweaked

4 - Player Energy/Urgency. Admittedly this is probably tied to tactics however I think there is something to be tweaked in player attitudes in the instance where you are losing a game (reasonably close game), drawing (in fewer cases) or score to close a game (i.e. 3-1 to 3-2) irrespective of whether the manager tweaks the tactic to ask for it. Its player mentality and if anything the manager probably has to ensure they remain calm and patient rather than going gung-ho. I just feel that the current configuration you have players dallying on the ball, not sprinting back to collect a loose ball etc when there is still time to affect the game in a positive way. Obviously the impact of this might be games where you get sucker punched as a result but i definitely feel this is something that can be looked at to improve the ME

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Shots on target that go in that hit defenders or keepers on the way (rather than take a massive deflection) seem to go down as OG's. Maybe its the graphical representation that is misinterpreting the incident? Anyone else see this or am I FM drunk?

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Shots on target that go in that hit defenders or keepers on the way (rather than take a massive deflection) seem to go down as OG's. Maybe its the graphical representation that is misinterpreting the incident? Anyone else see this or am I FM drunk?

You may well be FM drunk, but, yes, I've seen that too. It's either a representational thing or the ME is not taking into account the original path of the ball, only the last player to touch it. Time to write a 'dubious goals committee' module :)

Edit: Actually that could be a quite nice addition. A couple of days after a game you could get a news item telling you that the goal has been allocated to your striker when originally it was a defender O.G - or vice versa.

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Hi all.

A quick question regarding starting a new savegame.

When I play I always play long career savegames, which means I prefer a database with many players. However, I like the game to be as quick as possible. So, if I start a new game with only 2-3 divisions (to optimize game speed) I won't have a big database of players... That would be fine to begin with, but what about the future? Will the game expand the player database if I add 7-8 leagues after let's say 3-4 seasons? If so; will the players added mainly be regens?

Or should I just start the save with 7-8 leagues instead of just a few?

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Shots on target that go in that hit defenders or keepers on the way (rather than take a massive deflection) seem to go down as OG's. Maybe its the graphical representation that is misinterpreting the incident? Anyone else see this or am I FM drunk?

IIRC in real life games if a shot is actually on target but gets deflected by a defender, the striker of the ball is given the goal but if it was off target and gets deflected then it's an OG.

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Anyone find lateral movement of players is worse in FM15 than it was in 14? I love the narrow diamond and used it in FM14 but can't get it to work in FM15 as for some reason lateral movement in players seems worse than it was in `14. There seems no way to get the midfield two to cover wide and have tried several roles in the CM positions. This leaves the wing backs extremely isolated. May have something to do with the central midfield bunching together which I read about somewhere. The forwards seem the same seemingly rarely pulling wide so the front three get extremely bunched offering no width. It seems that "move into channels" is about "vertical movement" between the lines according to the description which could be half the problem. I find players using that PI seem to run away from the ball whereas I think "move into channels" should be lateral movement to the width of the pitch. Maybe a shout of "play wider" would help I haven't yet tried that.

Vertical movement doesn't seem much better. After trying out many ideas over the course of a season I really find it difficult to get attacking midfielders to defend and midfielders in the CM strata to attack. The lack of movement makes it look like all roles play the same.

It is annoying because I thought player movement was high on the list of improvements?

I too have tried the diamond midfield but have reverted back to a 4-2-3-1 system as it seems the best balanced for the game, I want to play 2 up top 4-4-2 diamond but the play seems very narrow even when I have my 2 mids set to to run wide, they just seem to get in each others way. Playing the diamond wide with 2 wide mids just leaves too much space in the middle.

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"x manager confirms interest in y job"

:?

i rarely see this in real life and nowhere near as often as it comes up on my newsfeed

a small thing but it does my head in for some reason

please remove it; it detracts from the realism when it happens once a week

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"x manager confirms interest in y job"

:?

i rarely see this in real life and nowhere near as often as it comes up on my newsfeed

a small thing but it does my head in for some reason

please remove it; it detracts from the realism when it happens once a week

I agree. Yeah, it happens from time to time, but the game goes overboard with it- it feels like every appointment us handled this way.

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Please fix players reaction times, it just looks so ridiculous, also try and fix players doing weird front rolls every now and then when they're either getting tackled or sometimes just when an opposition player is near them, don't know if it's been reported as a bug as I couldn't see it anywhere, so I don't know if anyone else has experienced these weird front rolls they do.

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Please fix players reaction times, it just looks so ridiculous, also try and fix players doing weird front rolls every now and then when they're either getting tackled or sometimes just when an opposition player is near them, don't know if it's been reported as a bug as I couldn't see it anywhere, so I don't know if anyone else has experienced these weird front rolls they do.

The best way to expedite fixes is to upload examples of what you see in the Bugs Forum :brock:

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What teams were they out of curiosity?

I was Boca away to Lanus. Decided that I am just going to put FM down for a while, it's probably my tactical set up but as I say it was working fine before so this result came out of the blue so to speak. Obvioulsy people will cite real world examples of one off results and thats fine just knocks my enjoyment a little.

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The best way to expedite fixes is to upload examples of what you see in the Bugs Forum :brock:

I will do, I was looking for the rolling thing but couldn't see it, will post it soon

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I will do, I was looking for the rolling thing but couldn't see it, will post it soon

Cheers :thup:

I haven't read the "rolling thing" in any of the ME Bug Reports, and I've read 99% of the posts in there. Sounds like an animation issue rather than a full on ME bug.

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Cheers :thup:

I haven't read the "rolling thing" in any of the ME Bug Reports, and I've read 99% of the posts in there. Sounds like an animation issue rather than a full on ME bug.

Can't seem to upload file, keeps saying error even when I've changed the name of the file about a dozen times.

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Hey.

I bought the Editor December 12, 2016 year there were no problems until I made the format a computer. When I did the format, the editor disappeared. When I wanted to install it, I have a problem.

When you start the game, then press the option to download the files the error appears - error code error occurred 1 / Ann interest in virtual balance

I can not download an editor because I have no way to enter the workshop .

firewall and anti-virus does not block the steam and football manager.

after installing football manager 13 on the same pair (same account) by going to the store tab (no tab to download files in this version) it starts normally, without error.

When you logged into your account friend pairs and installed his football manager 2017 ( only to check if there is no error ) by going to Downloads option enabled without any problem .

Only football manager 2015 has this error .

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12 hours ago, Kruszon said:

Hey.

I bought the Editor December 12, 2016 year there were no problems until I made the format a computer. When I did the format, the editor disappeared. When I wanted to install it, I have a problem.

When you start the game, then press the option to download the files the error appears - error code error occurred 1 / Ann interest in virtual balance

I can not download an editor because I have no way to enter the workshop .

firewall and anti-virus does not block the steam and football manager.

after installing football manager 13 on the same pair (same account) by going to the store tab (no tab to download files in this version) it starts normally, without error.

When you logged into your account friend pairs and installed his football manager 2017 ( only to check if there is no error ) by going to Downloads option enabled without any problem .

Only football manager 2015 has this error .

Please contact help@sega.co.uk in regards to this issue.

Thanks. 

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Why is this thread still open? Just asking.

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5 hours ago, Kazza said:

Why is this thread still open? Just asking.

Because the poster 2 up from your posts had an issue with FM 15 and was trying to get some help.

Closed now.

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