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Neil Brock

Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.1.3

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Ok i can understand the delay on updates for match engine etc.. But at least the "slow save issue" should fixed as soon as possible..

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It's been said already, very few people read the stickies, especially those that are going to come on here and post about the issue without actually doing some research on whether it's already been talked about. So discounting that, I'm not sure what gets more visible than the probably hundreds of utterances of "It's a known issue, we're working on it" they've already posted on this subject.

One other point, what exactly would what you're asking for achieve? It won't make it arrive any faster, and it won't make any difference in the grand scheme of things. In fact, it (negligibly I admit) has a negative effect as it involves someone on the relevant team having to tell someone else what is going on. Even if it's "we're working on it", which it would be. They're never going to tell you that it's ready, because it could go backwards. Once it's ready it'll be released.

What it would achieve is making it clear how seriously they are taking the issue, that it isn't just another bug like the abundance of Eneko Osias being produced. The problem with how it's being done is that it makes it come across as just some minor bug that'll get fixed at some point, rather than a serious bug that they're actively working through. This can create a false impression that it's just some minor point that will be patched when they get around to it, whilst making a direct statement would make it clear that it is of the utmost importance. No time frame needs to be given, just a clearly visible acknowledgement of such bugs to avoid any such confusion.

Just in general I feel at the very least, a serious bugs sticky should exist so the acknowledged serious bugs would be a bit clearer.

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They take every issue and bug seriously. Every single one.

Some are a priority and some are not so much a priority.

But they need to put more urgent issues at the top of the queue, and they do - that's how all software/coding companies work.

Some issues are so big that there probably isn't a forseeable short term solution so they work on them for the entire year and incorporate them into next year's patch/game.

Every single bug is being looked at - and some bug fixes simply won't be ready for the next patch - that's just the way it is, as some other bugs take higher priority.

I'm sure they endeavour to have every bug fixed, but some will have to wait while they sort out.

You have to understand - there's only so much they can do in a short amount of time.

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In fairness, it isn't THAT serious. I mean, it doesn't cause the game to stop, or actively stop you from playing it (unless you have OCD apparently).

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They take every issue and bug seriously. Every single one.

Some are a priority and some are not so much a priority.

But they need to put more urgent issues at the top of the queue, and they do - that's how all software/coding companies work.

Some issues are so big that there probably isn't a forseeable short term solution so they work on them for the entire year and incorporate them into next year's patch/game.

Every single bug is being looked at - and some bug fixes simply won't be ready for the next patch - that's just the way it is, as some other bugs take higher priority.

I'm sure they endeavour to have every bug fixed, but some will have to wait while they sort out.

You have to understand - there's only so much they can do in a short amount of time.

I get this isn't a response to me, but this is the exact reason an official response on such serious bugs would help. No time frame ever needs to be given, but it helps prevent the impression that such a serious bug is being ignored, put on the backburner or brushed aside.

In fairness, it isn't THAT serious. I mean, it doesn't cause the game to stop, or actively stop you from playing it (unless you have OCD apparently).

Again, others have reported it as causing serious issues.

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I get this isn't a response to me, but this is the exact reason an official response on such serious bugs would help. No time frame ever needs to be given, but it helps prevent the impression that such a serious bug is being ignored, put on the backburner or brushed aside.

But no-one sensible has that impression. They see SI say they're working on it, and just accept it and get on with their lives.

Again, others have reported it as causing serious issues.

It's one issue. Saves are slow. There's no variation in how serious the bug is for one person to another, apart from exactly how long. That doesn't make it any more serious though. If you couldn't save at all, that would be very serious. You can. It's slow. On the development scale (maybe the one SI use, not sure), it's a Major. Above trivial and minor, and below Critical and Apocalyptic. No idea on what other issues are on the plate, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some considered more important.

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Again, the time isn't the issue. The SI team are great, they tend to get the job done, and brilliantly at that. The issue here is one of communication. They don't need to give a time frame, a date, anything, just acknowledge in a visible manner that they have recognised this problem and sticky it on the general discussion page.

If you report a bug in the bugs forum QA will mark it reviewed which (along with any comment they make) is notification to you that they acknowledge it and it's been entered into Testrack.

That is visible acknowledgement in the correct forum for communications about bugs.

GD is not the place for SI to communicate about bugs, in general it's where we Mods pass on the message on their behalf for those who can't be bothered to look in the right place (or genuinely can't find anything about their issue)

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This is nonsense.

What type of 'progress' would you like them to convey? That it's half finished? That it was nearly finished so now they have to start again?

They are under no obligation to even tell people they're working on it. In fact, they're under no obligation to have such an open forum at all. Go and log on to EA's page, and ask them to convey to the customers an exact timetable of when they're issues will be fixed.

The misplaced sense of entitlement people have is unreal at times.

" A simple of word if there is progress or not". Don't forget the "or not".

Is it a tricky one? Is it a simple one but seem to have other knock-on effects, which might take even more time?

Do they just want to wait so they can have more fixes and improvement in place before releasing a possible update?

Stuff like that.

You're right. They are under no obligation. Nobody are. They're working on it...as far as we know.

They might even be done fixing the problem even.

I know EA is terrible but i wasn't saying anything about a timetable.

Nonsense? It's basic customer service.

They do. By telling people that it's a known issue, and being worked on. Eleven million times a day when people who are never going to read a sticky or similar ask the same question.

And how exactly do you define "progress"? Given their (software developers) idea of progress isn't something you're going to update the regular punter with, I'd imagine they'd differ. We;re not talking about some indie developer, with a small team of people working in their bedrooms. People like that can get away with a much more personalised service, development updates, the works. Much as they would be interesting, SI won't get away with this thanks to a lot of idiots on here. The reason they avoid the forum is because of the customers. I wasn't here when they did, but they used to be a lot more communicative. They were pretty much chased away, so they withdrew that olive branch. Quite right too. The extent of SI's duty to us is to release the game and support it during its lifetime. They're doing that. They owe us nothing else.

I wondered how long it would be before the "customer is always right" attitude was brought up...:rolleyes:

See the response above, to Dagenham_Dave. That's what i mean with progress, or not.

Again, please don't forget about the "or not".

Doesn't matter if it's an indie developer or not. Bigger companies have better opportunities to communicate with their customers. So that's a backwards excuse.

It doesn't have to be personalised. A simple verbal (digitally would probably work the best here :D) word could do wonders.

They avoid the forum because of the customers?!?!

Somehow the name Basil Fawlty comes to mind. They should be doing the opposite.

Don't get me wrong, i know SI are brilliant, compared to other companies, when it comes to including themselves with the community.

So if the community (or a minor, vocal few) becomes loud and unreasonable they are right in sticking their heads in the sand?

Instead of actually moderating the forums properly they should turn around and not listen?

THAT'S when problems will escalate.

It doesn't take much. Just a simple few lines.

There will always be "idiots". They will continue to scream and shout louder and louder.

If SI (or companies in general) should turn away because of that minority then they are letting the majority down.

The paradox is that the majority will accept it, even though they complain about that particular minority's idiocy - and thus, indirectly defending them.

I know....it doesn't seem like it makes much sense, but think really hard about it. Then hopefully you'll get what i'm saying. Unless you did get it immediately.

There's only one thing they owe us. A product that is working as intended.

If it's not working as intended then they owe the customers to get the product to that state.

What's intended? Only SI really knows.

This is also the feedback thread. It would be nice if it was a two-way street.

We give them feedback. They give us feedback.

I'll leave it at that, as we're completely derailing from the main purpose of this thread.

Now back to getting an awful Swedish team to start climbing the ladder :D

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Also let's get this thread back to it's real purpose please, which isn't to dictate to SI how they should run their business.

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If you report a bug in the bugs forum QA will mark it reviewed which (along with any comment they make) is notification to you that they acknowledge it and it's been entered into Testrack.

That is visible acknowledgement in the correct forum for communications about bugs.

GD is not the place for SI to communicate about bugs, in general it's where we Mods pass on the message on their behalf for those who can't be bothered to look in the right place (or genuinely can't find anything about their issue)

Indeed.

Again going to point out Neil gave a direct reply yesterday on it's status.

If you create a bug thread, you tend to get a direct answer.

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To give some visibility of the official SI position on this problem (and hopefully draw a line under this issue in the thread for a while), here is a very recent response from Neil Brock in a Bug Report, which I have linked below:

It's very high priority for us and hopefully we'll be able to make changes to improve this soon. Thanks.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/407554-Saving-the-game.

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To give some visibility of the official SI position on this problem (and hopefully draw a line under this issue in the thread for a while), here is a very recent response from Neil Brock in a Bug Report, which I have linked below:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/407554-Saving-the-game.

That's exactly the sort of feedback (word) i was talking about.

It would be nice if they could use this feedback thread as well, a bit more, when it comes to stuff like that.

Just a personal wish :)

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Just wondering if anyone has seen someone get booked for timewasting? Just lost a game(don't mind that in the slightest) but their goalkeeper took 30 seconds to take a goal kick and there were no subs being made.

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Just wondering if anyone has seen someone get booked for timewasting? Just lost a game(don't mind that in the slightest) but their goalkeeper took 30 seconds to take a goal kick and there were no subs being made.

Never in FM history, I don't think it's coded to be possible.

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Being booked for timewasting should have been a feature introduced the minute they introduced the 'time wasting' instruction whilst playing on 'contain'. Hopefully see it in future versions.

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Being booked for timewasting should have been a feature introduced the minute they introduced the 'time wasting' instruction whilst playing on 'contain'. Hopefully see it in future versions.

Agreed, but it used to take over a minute to get the ball back in play when first introduced, 10-30 seconds now is much quicker! I remember 5 minutes of injury time expiring by the throw in taker taking about 90 seconds to throw the ball in, then it was headed back out, 90 seconds wait, headed out, 90 second wait, full time in FM12(ish).

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No matter the version .. FM still delivers when it comes to the Dog & Duck .. The poorest team in the league gets dominated in a game but then, when they "need a goal or three", they turn into a team of superstars and Messi would struggle to get in their team.

It often makes you wonder - if they could play like this "when they need to" - why aren't they top of the league? They're 3-0 down with 10 minutes to go and their manager shouts out "Come on Bazza - the booze should be out of your system by now - get the lads playing will ya"?

Bazza gives a little knowing nod. Stamps out his fag, puts his bottle of White Lightening down and rallies the lads. It's time for the Dog & Duck to change their shirts to the claret and blue stripey ones they usually wear.

"It's your tactics" .. No it isn't. I have a set of perfectly solid defensive tactics that can see me go to teams 1 or 2 divisions above me in cup games and put in solid defensive displays. Though not top of the league, I have the best defensive record in the division. The Dog & Duck in this example is second bottom of the table and averages 0.6 goals per game. They've lost 9 out of 10 away games.

It's actually the "Opposition needs 3 goals in 10 minutes and there's nothing you can do to stop it" ... errm, let's call it a feature .. that's been part of FM since god-knows when. It used to manifest itself in the 4-2-4 that the AI used to always switch to. Now it's more subtle but the result is the same.

But it's not just the Dog & Duck that turn into Barcelona feature that's the problem. No. It's also the "home team playing solid football with better players and winning 3-0 with 10 minutes to go who suddenly all turn into a team of drunken monkeys" feature that's at play to.

Suddenly, your team can't pass the ball to a free man 5 yards away. They've been doing it all game (their 80+% passing accuracy shows that) but because Bazza has put his fag out, you're players suddenly can't make a simple 5 yard pass to a team mate under no pressure, yet instead, pass it 5 yards from him and then see him just look at it while an opposition player runs from nowhere to "intercept" it and have a free on goal. How does that work?

Suddenly, you're 6'4" defender is going for headers and missing them completely and seeing the ball sail over to the speedy winger, somehow left unmarked in 10 yards of space (dunno where there FB is - it certainly isn't in his instructions to be chatting up the girls in row Z - so why is he doing little dances in the oppositions half when he has a defend duty?), to burst through on goal.

Why does the other CDef with his 17 acceleration and 18 pace suddenly start running through treacle while the 10 / 7 striker leaves him for dead chasing a hoofed ball over the top?

And it all happens with absolutely zero feedback from the game as to what's changed. Forget the Ass Manager as it stands - waste of time - he's still telling me guff he was telling me in the first minute of the game about us dominating. But why can't he tell me something useful like .. "Hey gaffer - they've changed their shirt colour" .. or if the game would actually reflect the changed shirt colour in game .. tell me " .. they've gone short passing" .. "they've upped the tempo" .. "their winger has started playing as an inside forward" .. or ... "Our big solid defender who wins every header he goes for has suddenly sprouted hair, is making funny noises while staggering around with a bottle of vodka in his hand wanting to sing Angels on the Karaoke and is trying to shag your mam."

THEN I might be able to make the changes necessary.

As it stands, once again, SI have produced another Rock-Paper-Scissors version of footy manager where you just have to blindly guess as to what's changed because you get no feedback whatsoever.

SI - for about the 8th year running I've said this - if you can't accurately reflect what's going on in the match engine, can you PLEASE incorporate a proper feedback system next version and not waste resources on making sure players get dirty shorts when it's raining.

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You speak of realism and you just said in a previous post you keep reloading games. :applause::lol:
I reloaded it to see if the same thing would happen over and over again, not because I wanted to win.

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I reloaded it to see if the same thing would happen over and over again, not because I wanted to win.

But you still reloaded and presented your finidings as unrealistic. Apart from anything else, how do you know? In what real life event has what you done ever happened for you to deduct whether or not that happening is 'realistic'.

Answers on a postcard to Marty and Doc.

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As it stands, once again, SI have produced another Rock-Paper-Scissors version of footy manager where you just have to blindly guess as to what's changed because you get no feedback whatsoever.

Watching on extended highlights I have no problem identifying what is happening on the pitch.

Your problem isn't that there is no feedback but that you are failing to recognise that feedback.

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@Thunda. Actually it is your tactics. I always used to find a more defensive minded tactic to counter the AI 4-2-4 gung ho tactic. It was then a sure win for me, because I usally ended up scoring 1 or two more goals extra. Its the same this version though I sometimes must ride my luck on this one. Not that cut and dry as they seem to mix it up. The key is to have diffrent tactics to respond to diffrent match situations. A lesser team that scores creates a momentum, just as in real life. As a Tottenham fan I know this happens all to often in real life to. Be proactive and protect your leads. Have a set of tactics instead of relying on just one.

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I think once all of the issues with FM15 are ironed out, and we all play happily ever after winning trophy after trophy and seeing player after player make an unbelievably frustrating ****-up

SI should release a limited edition T-Shirt with the slogan 'It's your tactics..' on the back:lol:

I know its off topic, but where else could I put it:thup:

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I'm sure it's been reported, but I'm seeing a fair amount of 'unpressured' back passes from opposition defenders that just go straight out for a corner.

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In my opinion real life changes of tactic are overstated and much of what happens in game is prearranged, so teams know what to do to close out matches or how to respond when a goal down without having to be given specific instruction in game. Something for SI to implement in the future maybe. I myself tend to use one of three starting formations; I play counter attack or control and very occasionally attacking with them. In game I have two simple switch left or right flank formations which involves only a couple role and positional player changes to minimise disruption to my team shape and I use those to unbalance the opposition or look for where they are weak defensively.

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are there any plans to fix the tactics screen? its simply terrible and keeping me from playing the game(still on my first save in preseason). on previous versions i could see 22-23 players without needing to scroll. now i need to scroll to see my first picked substitute.

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In fairness, it isn't THAT serious. I mean, it doesn't cause the game to stop, or actively stop you from playing it (unless you have OCD apparently).

That is harsh mate. OCD is a known and recognised medical condition.

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are there any plans to fix the tactics screen? its simply terrible and keeping me from playing the game(still on my first save in preseason). on previous versions i could see 22-23 players without needing to scroll. now i need to scroll to see my first picked substitute.

Whilst it hasn't stopped me playing, it is a terrible screen compared to FM2014. Please bring the old one back!

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It might possibly be your tactics but I've a sneaky feeling it's more likely to be your perceptions :) football management is for glass is half full types, you're more a glass is half empty and most of that is froth type :D

On the subject of Andy Carroll, he ceases to be Andy Carroll the first time you press continue, from that point he's just a sprite which started with Andy Carroll's attributes.

One reason I always start in a country and league where I know nothing about anybody is to avoid unconscious preconceptions, it means my game is imagination induced fun rather than frustration fuelled anger at what my mind tells me should happen.

You are right Kriss, I am a pessimist at heart but it makes it all the more rewarding when I win a Cup!! You have to admit though sometimes pre season can give you a false sense of security, plus surely even an overflowing glass of optimism like yourself must admit that Andy Sprite Carroll's injuries are a tad much!!

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And .. there we go .. the same response for the last 8 years ..

The point is being missed. I lay it out as simple and best I can.

I'm 2nd in the league .. 3rd best Goals For .. Best Goals against ..

The Dog & Duck .. 2nd bottom in the league .. 3rd worst Goals For .. 8th worst Goals Against.

I usually start off Attacking at home against teams like this .. They set up defensively .. 442 vs 442 ..

By 80 minutes .. I have 21 shots, 12 on target .......... They have 1 shot, 0 on target .... I lead 3-0.

On 80 minutes (maybe 81) .. I sense they've changed their shirt colour to the Claret & Blue variety because .. :) .. they've had another shot. I change to my defensive 442 to see out the game.

In the next 10 minutes, the 2nd worst team in the league, with the 3rd worst attack has 3 further shots, 3 on target .. score 3 goals .. against the best defence in the league. In return, I have 0 shots, 0 on target, 0 goals and a team full of drunken monkeys who suddenly can't pass a ball 5 yards.

To put that in perspective - the 3rd worst attack in the league scores 20% of their seasons goals in 10 minutes vs the best defence in the league who are set up in their best defensive set up for the last 10 mins. And all because "they need a goal or 3" in a proper match environment, with the match engine and not simulated in the background.

It's been proven over the course of the season so far, not to mention this game, that it is a "better" attack than 22 other teams in the division. In this game, my "best attack" has shown conclusively to be better than their "best defence" (as poor as it is) .. The season also shows their "best attack" is the 3rd worst in the league ..

So even if I stayed in my attacking formation for the full 90 minutes .. and then they went attacking - I would be confident that my "Best Attack" vs their "Best Attack" would likely see ME score more than them given that they'd also be up against the Best Defence in the league and I have the better players all round.

Ask yourself a question : What would Man City hope for in a game against Burnley at the Etihad? Burnley parking the bus or Burnley playing all out attack? Who would you put your money on to score most goals in any given 10 minutes?

When the team who has been playing defensive for 80 minutes and conceded 3 goals in that period open up in the last 10 (very debatable many, if any, teams would - but that's another topic) - then even if .. EVEN IF .. I continue with my attacking tactic .. my 2nd Best Attack in the league and my Best Defence in the league should "win" against the 2nd Worst Attack / 8th worst Defence in any given 10 minutes. i WANT them to open up ..

"Ahhh" .. you might say .. "but your attack tactic isn't concentrating on defence, so it leaves your team open"

And that's the point. My Best Defence In The League might be open when I'm attacking.

But then, so is the 8th Worst Defence in the league.

Yet somehow, when the 2nd Best Attack / Best Defence - attacks .. and the 3rd Worst Attack / 8th Worst Defence - Attacks .. over a 10 minute period .. The Dog & Duck wins 0-3.

Only in FM.

Now before somebody comes back with "well, in 1983 blah blah blah" .. You'll find that most examples of comebacks to that extent come from games that are closer than the score suggests .. 50/50 games where one side has took their chances and the other hasn't (until the comeback) .. and normally come about over a period of time longer than 10 minutes.

To repeat : By 80 minutes .. I have 21 shots, 12 on target .......... They have 1 shot, 0 on target .... I lead 3-0.

It's not even a competition.

----

Part of the problem (again, something I've brought up repeatedly over the years) is the Psychology of players. How many times do you hear commentators / pundits say "When you have had the defensive mindset for so long in a game, it's so difficult to completely switch that around and go looking for a goal" ... Not in FM .. As soon as a manager (Player or AI) switches from a defensive setup to an attacking mentality - it happens instantly .. no adjustment .. no players "forgetting" they are no longer on the defence .. no confusion in the interpretation of what manager is shouting from the sidelines .. (and me in the other tactical area not actually hearing what he's shouting .... Feedback) ..

Yet in FM, it's an instant switch and all previous instructions / mentalities are instantly forgotten about. When a defence has had a deep line for 80 minutes, for example, it's actually difficult for them to adjust and start playing a higher line - certainly if they've been battered for 80 minutes .. they are reluctant to step up .. afraid even ..

How many times do we see a team playing deep despite their manager screaming at them to push higher up? And they don't.

Yet in FM .. "Yep, no problem boss - should we start playing like Barcelona now too?"

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You are right Kriss, I am a pessimist at heart but it makes it all the more rewarding when I win a Cup!! You have to admit though sometimes pre season can give you a false sense of security, plus surely even an overflowing glass of optimism like yourself must admit that Andy Sprite Carroll's injuries are a tad much!!

Pre season is an indication of zilch :) I'd sell Carroll just because of his haircut, let alone his delicacy :D

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You really aren't getting it Thunda are you :(

The match itself is always evolving and you need to react to what is happening on the pitch. 442 isn't really a good formation to defend with either IMO especially when the opposition have players running between the lines, you need to learn how to shut down the match so when you are 3-0 up with ten minutes to go you can see it out nine times out of ten.

You are also wrong on the psychology and this is easily seen on the pitch and via the widgets. If the opposition nick a goal back then depending on their personality the players will suddenly look more determined and confident while doubt can creep into the mindset of your own players.

Yes the managers give the orders and instructions but the players attributes/morale/personality determine how they are carried out.

Rather than blaming the game you should be looking at your own decisions and how to improve them.

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Pre season is an indication of zilch :) I'd sell Carroll just because of his haircut, let alone his delicacy :D

Yep. If pre season counted for anything then Gio dos Santos at Spurs would have been Balon d'or winner twice at least. I miss that guy.

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You really aren't reading my posts are your Cougar? No, you have your belief and you'll just carry on regardless.

What part of my replies don't you understand? I'll keep it simple in my repetition :

I have a number of defensive set ups that see's me having the best defence in the league (as I do with all my saves in all versions of FM going back to year dot) that I switch to and from when necessary .. In that game, for example, I changed from 442 to 451 Counter before they scored their first goal (I recognised that suddenly something had changed - the Dog & Duck had become Barca)

And you're right .. 442 isn't the best to defend with either ..

Yet the AI can all-out-attack with a 442 with the 2nd worst team in the league, 3rd worst attack in the league and the 8th worst defence in the league, and it's as solid as a rock and 3 goals in 10 minutes better against the best attack in the league / 2nd best defence when it's in it's best defensive set up .. Go figure, huh? Why the hell aren't they top of the league?

Stop flag-waving for the game and thinking it's a perfect representation of football .. it isn't and it never will be .. and anybody who has ever been involved in real-life football can spot that in 2 minutes. Instead, take on the feedback and make changes to make it more realistic.

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You really aren't getting it Thunda are you :(

The match itself is always evolving and you need to react to what is happening on the pitch. 442 isn't really a good formation to defend with either IMO especially when the opposition have players running between the lines, you need to learn how to shut down the match so when you are 3-0 up with ten minutes to go you can see it out nine times out of ten.

You are also wrong on the psychology and this is easily seen on the pitch and via the widgets. If the opposition nick a goal back then depending on their personality the players will suddenly look more determined and confident while doubt can creep into the mindset of your own players.

Yes the managers give the orders and instructions but the players attributes/morale/personality determine how they are carried out.

Rather than blaming the game you should be looking at your own decisions and how to improve them.

I have to say that never seems to work for me much of the time, better to change tack to something offensive that the opposition have trouble adjusting to. Shutting up shop tends to lead to giving away procession and a siege mentality, I certainly find that a safer and more effective way of closing out games is to keep the opposition unsettled, doesn’t always work either but it would make for a dull game if it did.

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Thunda, if you have specific matches that you feel lacked a realistic flow the please start the thread in the bugs forum detailing what you believe the problem is along with the corresponding match pkm file.

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I have to say that never seems to work for me much of the time, better to change tack to something offensive that the opposition have trouble adjusting to. Shutting up shop tends to lead to giving away procession and a siege mentality, I certainly find that a safer and more effective way of closing out games is to keep the opposition unsettled, doesn’t always work either but it would make for a dull game if it did.

As the saying goes attack is the best form of defence and its certainly a viable option IMO.

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You really aren't reading my posts are your Cougar? No, you have your belief and you'll just carry on regardless.

What part of my replies don't you understand? I'll keep it simple in my repetition :

I have a number of defensive set ups that see's me having the best defence in the league (as I do with all my saves in all versions of FM going back to year dot) that I switch to and from when necessary .. In that game, for example, I changed from 442 to 451 Counter before they scored their first goal (I recognised that suddenly something had changed - the Dog & Duck had become Barca)

And you're right .. 442 isn't the best to defend with either ..

Yet the AI can all-out-attack with a 442 with the 2nd worst team in the league, 3rd worst attack in the league and the 8th worst defence in the league, and it's as solid as a rock and 3 goals in 10 minutes better against the best attack in the league / 2nd best defence when it's in it's best defensive set up .. Go figure, huh? Why the hell aren't they top of the league?

Stop flag-waving for the game and thinking it's a perfect representation of football .. it isn't and it never will be .. and anybody who has ever been involved in real-life football can spot that in 2 minutes. Instead, take on the feedback and make changes to make it more realistic.

Whats clear is that you've already buried your head in the sand and have your own idea of what football is leading to your insistence that your opinion is the only correct one :(

PS I've worked in RL football albeit at an amateur & junior level for many years.

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I have to say that never seems to work for me much of the time, better to change tack to something offensive that the opposition have trouble adjusting to. Shutting up shop tends to lead to giving away procession and a siege mentality, I certainly find that a safer and more effective way of closing out games is to keep the opposition unsettled, doesn’t always work either but it would make for a dull game if it did.
As the saying goes attack is the best form of defence and its certainly a viable option IMO.

I prefer sterile possession myself, force them to come at me and then pick them up. I win a considerable number of games by patiently waiting for a 1-0 lead, then scoring a flurry of goals as they push forwards and my side pick them off.

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It's not a bug, Alex .. it's a fundamental design flaw .. ;) .. it's been there since day 1 and has often been brought up on these forums yet never gets addressed .. Jeez .. it took 5 years before something as obvious as regens got sorted out, so I'm not holding my breath ..

Simply - there isn't anywhere near enough feedback available to compensate for the match engine not being able to accurately portray what's going on .. people need to know about the oppositions tempo, their mentality, closing down, passing .. basically, they need to "see" the oppositions team / player instructions (masked, possibly, based on the players Tactical rating). Stuff that is obvious when watching a real life game, yet can't be accurately portrayed by the match engine.

Secondly, more impact of player psychology. For instance, if a team has been battered for 80 minutes and is 3-0 down on a rainy Tuesday in December - it's fair to say that many of their players heads will have dropped .. and they aren't suddenly going to start playing like Barca for the last 10 minutes just because their manager says Pretty Please.

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Whats clear is that you've already buried your head in the sand and have your own idea of what football is leading to your insistence that your opinion is the only correct one :(

PS I've worked in RL football albeit at an amateur & junior level for many years.

Why can't I tell my players to ALWAYS hit high balls to my 7 foot striker up front, regardless of what other option they may have?

Oh that's right .. because it's not real football. In real football, I can tell them to do what I want.

What it is is a whole load of maths going on in the background with a million and one variables. I can live with that. But sometimes, those variables go wonky or are wonky from the start. I'd rather as many of those wonky variables get put right .. so for instance, just because the other team takes on an attacking mentality, I'd rather my super fast defenders didn't suddenly start running in treacle because of the behind the scenes slider positions of my team and the AI - point it out if I'm wrong, but I can't see the "don't run in treacle" option in the team instructions.

So how do I solve that? One of the goals was down to a defender running in treacle when he had a 5 yard start on the forward who's acceleration and pace are half my player? Line was relatively deep, not playing offside or anything silly .. One hoof from their keeper, my player ran in treacle, theirs didn't. Goal!

It's easy to say "it's your tactics" - probably right, but all anybody can see is a fast defender, with his laces tied together, running in treacle.

A 5 yard pass, no pressure on the passer or the player receiving the pass .. pass goes 5 yards stray .. guy who should have received the pass just moonwalked on the spot, watched the loose ball and the opposition player who was 10 yards behind him, run past, pick up the ball and hit a 25 yard screamer into the top corner (I never checked his Long Shots, maybe I should ;) ) .. In real life, 30k voices would have shouted Man-On .. In FM, nah - just moonwalk and let them score. Like with treacle, I don't see any moonwalking options in the Team / Player instructions.

Now I accept, it's a game .. it has to do funny things at times to make what we see on screen match the calculations under the hood .. but when it DOES resort to doing silly things, it shows the match engine isn't accurately representing what actually was calculated .. so hence we need .. FEEDBACK. Is that really too much to ask?

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I prefer sterile possession myself, force them to come at me and then pick them up. I win a considerable number of games by patiently waiting for a 1-0 lead, then scoring a flurry of goals as they push forwards and my side pick them off.
I try to always play procession football anyway. On another note offside decisions are bugging me at the moment; obviously linesmen get it wrong some of the time and the game should reflect that. However, the game should give me the option to berate the officials after the game and replays of both offside if it results in a disallowed goal and penalty incidents should be in the highlights without having to rewind the game. I'm still bothered by the woodenness of highlights, absolutely every game I see a defender jump for a ball and miss whilst the attacker just simply runs on to the ball it never happens the other way and far too many chances come after defenders or GKs wander around ignoring a loose ball.

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Now I accept, it's a game .. it has to do funny things at times to make what we see on screen match the calculations under the hood .. but when it DOES resort to doing silly things, it shows the match engine isn't accurately representing what actually was calculated .. so hence we need .. FEEDBACK. Is that really too much to ask?

All SI need to ask is that the crappy looking, laces tied together, running in treacle examples are uploaded to the Bugs Forum to enable them to iron out the issues.

They are absolutely not bugs that are forced in to the game to balance anything - they are bugs. No more. No less.

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I try to always play procession football anyway. On another note offside decisions are bugging me at the moment; obviously linesmen get it wrong some of the time and the game should reflect that. However, the game should give me the option to berate the officials after the game and replays of both offside if it results in a disallowed goal and penalty incidents should be in the highlights without having to rewind the game. I'm still bothered by the woodenness of highlights, absolutely every game I see a defender jump for a ball and miss whilst the attacker just simply runs on to the ball it never happens the other way and far too many chances come after defenders or GKs wander around ignoring a loose ball.

Change the replay to goal action, it shows that.

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To all mods, could you please ask Dagenham Dave to be less sarcastic with his replies, people come on here to ask questions and all they get from him is a cheeky smart arsed comment, not needed in my opinion.

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To all mods, could you please ask Dagenham Dave to be less sarcastic with his replies, people come on here to ask questions and all they get from him is a cheeky smart arsed comment, not needed in my opinion.

Compare his infraction numbers to yours - Daggers gets his comeuppance quite often :thup:

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All SI need to ask is that the crappy looking, laces tied together, running in treacle examples are uploaded to the Bugs Forum to enable them to iron out the issues.

They are absolutely not bugs that are forced in to the game to balance anything - they are bugs. No more. No less.

I'm not saying they are "balance" issues or bugs .. it's the match engine just not being able to portray a game of football 100% accurately. The running in treacle, a defender suddenly missing easy headers to allow strikers a free run at goal, players moonwalking instead of reacting to threats, Super-keepers of old etc etc etc ..

IMO they are just symptoms of two opposing tactics going head to head with no easy way to reflect what went on to bring about a chance or goal that has been predetermined in the nano-seconds prior to the particular passage of play that we see. IF what we saw in the match engine was "live" - like in Pro-Evo or FIFA, then we could possibly say they were bugs - but what we see is just a representation of calculations that have already be made. They generally mean there IS a flaw in your tactics and, in that moment, running in treacle, for example, is the only way the ME can represent it. As such, the player manager is left non-the-wiser as to what or where the problem is - all he sees is a defender running in treacle.

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I'm not saying they are "balance" issues or bugs .. it's the match engine just not being able to portray a game of football 100% accurately. The running in treacle, a defender suddenly missing easy headers to allow strikers a free run at goal, players moonwalking instead of reacting to threats, Super-keepers of old etc etc etc ..

IMO they are just symptoms of two opposing tactics going head to head with no easy way to reflect what went on to bring about a chance or goal that has been predetermined in the nano-seconds prior to the particular passage of play that we see. IF what we saw in the match engine was "live" - like in Pro-Evo or FIFA, then we could possibly say they were bugs - but what we see is just a representation of calculations that have already be made. They generally mean there IS a flaw in your tactics and, in that moment, running in treacle, for example, is the only way the ME can represent it. As such, the player manager is left non-the-wiser as to what or where the problem is.

No. They are bugs :)

Some cases, where defenders miss headers are legitimate and fine. The running in treacle thing is something SI are looking at. It's actually a real technical challenge to overcome that is way, way more than just a representation problem.

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No. They are bugs :)

Some cases, where defenders miss headers are legitimate and fine.

I could live with that if

1. It didn’t happen at least once in every game to one side or the other.

2. It’s always defenders who jump and miss never attackers, they just run onto the ball.

3. Its never both players as you might expect.

4. it always results in a goal attempt and

5. Whether it is or isn’t in reality it nevertheless looks scripted because of 1,2,3 and 4.

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Why can't I tell my players to ALWAYS hit high balls to my 7 foot striker up front, regardless of what other option they may have?

Oh that's right .. because it's not real football. In real football, I can tell them to do what I want.

IRL you can ask players to do lots of things but I guarantee that when out on the pitch they will not do it all the time and its unrealistic to expect them to either IRL or in FM.

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