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Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.1.3


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No you didn't do right. I've already 100+ hours played. The game is excellent. Needs fixing but is frigging addictive. I'm at work and I'm thinking about my next match.

Don't judge by the forums where people come to complain, FM15 is completely playable and highly enjoyable. Needs some patch love for sure, but imho it's at least better than the last 3 releases as a whole. And I played the heck out of them too!

Fully agree, FM15 is one of the best ever

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This is getting ridiculous now with Andy Carroll. 5 injuries between January 2015 and April 2015. The groin strain was within a minute of coming on. The last two have occurred in an U21 game where he is down to play a mere 20 minutes to try and get him fit!! I know he is prone to injuries but he hasn't completed a half for me yet!!!

8/7 - torn ankle ligaments - 4 months - injury at start of game.

11/1 - twisted ankle - 4 weeks

25/2 - damaged elbow - 2 weeks

15/3 - groin strain 3-4 weeks

11/4 - stubbed toe - 8 days

26/4 - gashed leg - 3 weeks

That is unrealistic. His only long term injury was the real life one (interesting that the real life injury was longer out than all the others put together). There really aren't enough long-term injuries in-game compared to real life, or nagging continual ones. Too many (by comparison) in the 2-6 week bracket like your example, some of those should have been very short, one of them very long for a realistic pattern. Of course, Andy Carroll may just be the worst example possible given his real life history of major injury!

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Pre season is fairly pointless it seems. It should be a grand way of refining your tactics but even if you beat a team you are expected to beat 6-0 you are guaranteed to struggle come season start. I remember in FM14 I beat Bayern Munich 3-0, Olympaikos 5-0 and some US based team 9-0 in friendlies and actually had the team playing the way I wanted it to. Season start I didn't score in the opening four games!!

As for the free kicks, I have just lost to Spurs away 2-1. Was 1-0 up with stat of 9 shots with 7 on target to their 2 and 0 and conceded two from free kicks put into the area and my usual defensive set up which hardly leaks at crossed free kicks leaves players unmarked on both occasions for free headers and Spurs run out 2-1 winners with their shots ratio overtaking mine in the last 15 minutes!!

I think part of the problem is that IRL when you are on top and the opposition changes things to counter that sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. In FM when the AI changes things it "always seems to work" or that's how it seems. When I am dominating and should be out of sight it's usually a free kick, long shot, first goal in 40 games for someone, corner or penalty that gets them back on level terms, usually whilst my strikers are shooting straight at the keeper the other end!!!

It's probably my tactics!!

It might possibly be your tactics but I've a sneaky feeling it's more likely to be your perceptions :) football management is for glass is half full types, you're more a glass is half empty and most of that is froth type :D

On the subject of Andy Carroll, he ceases to be Andy Carroll the first time you press continue, from that point he's just a sprite which started with Andy Carroll's attributes.

One reason I always start in a country and league where I know nothing about anybody is to avoid unconscious preconceptions, it means my game is imagination induced fun rather than frustration fuelled anger at what my mind tells me should happen.

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It's true that it must be a tricky thing to fix but I do wonder if maybe the fellas of SI are trying to get a patch out that will fix everything at once and that's why there's a slight delay!

I would personally prefer a fix for some obvious problems that are not gameplay/ME related(saving times,tooltips opening after replays,crashes) first and then slowly slowly the balance fixes.

Just saying, since I don't know exactly how SI is working internally, what release planning they have etc :)

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a hotfix for the saving taking ages would have been nice - doesnt take 2 weeks to fix this

Given they had no idea the problem was even there after the last update I think it will be a bit more difficult than you think.

Neil Brock had even said when people first said there was a problem that nothing had changed to the saving system with the update, it is obviously a knock on effect from something else and it could be a bit of a nightmare to track it down and sort it without causing other problems.

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Given they had no idea the problem was even there after the last update I think it will be a bit more difficult than you think.

Neil Brock had even said when people first said there was a problem that nothing had changed to the saving system with the update, it is obviously a knock on effect from something else and it could be a bit of a nightmare to track it down and sort it without causing other problems.

I'm sure they have a team working on it with some urgency, it's a massive issue. My one worry is the lack of communication about it. This is the kind of bug they really need to tell the community is being worked on, and at least give us some time frame on a fix.

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I'm sure they have a team working on it with some urgency, it's a massive issue. My one worry is the lack of communication about it. This is the kind of bug they really need to tell the community is being worked on, and at least give us some time frame on a fix.

They're never going to do that though, nor should they. They very well may not have any update whatsoever beyond "we're working on it" which is what we get now. Bugs like this often have a very thin line between fixed/not-fixed. If they do open a window to the development process, they'll have a very hard time shutting it again once the majority (not directed at you at all) completely misunderstand and ruin it for everyone else. They tried that, it failed, now they're silent.

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I'm sure they have a team working on it with some urgency, it's a massive issue. My one worry is the lack of communication about it. This is the kind of bug they really need to tell the community is being worked on, and at least give us some time frame on a fix.

But we know they're working on it? It's going to be impossible to give a timeframe to fix it. Surely you can understand this? The have to investigate the issue and why exactly this is happening. They will try and fix it, but what if that doesn't work? They have to try something else. If it is taking this long, it isn't a simple thing to fix and to give a timeframe for it would be stupid.

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Not sure if this is a bug or something that's not meant to be in the game any more, my under 18 won the under 18 league and none of them have it showing in their history

Unlikely that this is counted at club or international level

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But we know they're working on it? It's going to be impossible to give a timeframe to fix it. Surely you can understand this? The have to investigate the issue and why exactly this is happening. They will try and fix it, but what if that doesn't work? They have to try something else. If it is taking this long, it isn't a simple thing to fix and to give a timeframe for it would be stupid.

We know they're working on it (well, it's been mentioned on here), but beyond that we've had nothing to go on, and whilst it's reasonable for them to take a long time for such a major issue, as it potentially makes the game unplayable they should at the least have a stickied post on here with an official statement. A few short answers on issues such as a description of the problem, the explanation of why save game compression is forced on FM14 and 15, and maybe a short explanation as to any reason it may have occurred (though unlikely for an unresolved issue).

I don't know, to me this is a problem which if I had known of at the time of choosing whether to buy the game or not, I would not have bought it. For me it has rendered the game unplayable, and whilst I am more than happy to patiently wait for them to resolve the issue, as I'm sure they will, I am just somewhat taken aback by the lack of a direct, visible, official response on here. A lack of such communication is fine when it's patched in a day or two, but when the time scale is weeks rapidly going toward a month for a newly released $50 game there surely should be such a direct, visible communication on here about the issue.

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No. It's annoying but far from unplayable.

FWIW, it took me less than 1 minute (so something you could do while the game is saving) to find an answer to this. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/407554-Saving-the-game.

It's makes it unplayable for me, and I know there are more on here who feel the same way about it.

That is in no way a visible response, a locked thread hiding away in the bugs forum.

Is it really impossible for them to give a proper and full response, visible in the main discussion forum? Sometime to make it clear how serious they find the issue until such a time that it is fixed.

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It's makes it unplayable for me, and I know there are more on here who feel the same way about it.

That is in no way a visible response, a locked thread hiding away in the bugs forum.

Is it really impossible for them to give a proper and full response, visible in the main discussion forum? Sometime to make it clear how serious they find the issue until such a time that it is fixed.

How many times do they (and us) need to repeat "They're working on it" before it sinks in?

Seriously, save the game less than normal and carry on.

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It's true that it must be a tricky thing to fix but I do wonder if maybe the fellas of SI are trying to get a patch out that will fix everything at once and that's why there's a slight delay!

I would personally prefer a fix for some obvious problems that are not gameplay/ME related(saving times,tooltips opening after replays,crashes) first and then slowly slowly the balance fixes.

Just saying, since I don't know exactly how SI is working internally, what release planning they have etc :)

As anyone in the software industry will know, making a change to fix an issue is just one part. Ensuring there is no regression / impact of other areas is vital. Tuning will always be done with a view to low risk for obvious changes, especially with software as compex as FM

The game is playable currently and will hopefully get "tuned" slightly in due course. The regular FM'rs will know how SI work.

By all means log isses in the bugs forum and improvements / new features / changes to features in the appropriate forums. Its how content for future FM's starts

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How many times do they (and us) need to repeat "They're working on it" before it sinks in?

Seriously, save the game less than normal and carry on.

Thats an easy one - make it a sticky and put some Xmas flashing lights around it. :D

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How many times do they (and us) need to repeat "They're working on it" before it sinks in?

Seriously, save the game less than normal and carry on.

I don't know how many times I need to point out that the issue isn't the question of whether they are working on it (we know they are), but rather the lack of visibility of the response, and the lack of outright response (visible on the main forum) about on the main forum in general.

I also fail to see how "I'm waiting for the fix" hasn't sunk in. At this point, to me, the game is rendered unplayable. That's annoying, but oh well, they are working on it. The worry here is that I'm concerned as to why there isn't an official, clearly visible response on the main page here for such a major issue. I'm also curious as to why save game compression is forced. Repeating "they're working on it" when asked doesn't cover any of that.

Like the existing sticky threads and this thread's opening post that no-one reads?

Just checking the stickies, and it doesn't appear to be mentioned in any of them. Maybe a known issues sticky would be useful on the general discussion page for the most serious issues.

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I don't know how many times I need to point out that the issue isn't the question of whether they are working on it (we know they are), but rather the lack of visibility of the response, and the lack of outright response (visible on the main forum) about on the main forum in general.

I also fail to see how "I'm waiting for the fix" hasn't sunk in. At this point, to me, the game is rendered unplayable. That's annoying, but oh well, they are working on it. The worry here is that I'm concerned as to why there isn't an official, clearly visible response on the main page here for such a major issue. I'm also curious as to why save game compression is forced. Repeating "they're working on it" when asked doesn't cover any of that.

What would you like?

I mean they can't say when it will be sorted, all they can say is "we are working on it", what more do you want?

You have said you know they are working on it, so what more do you want?

No wonder some of the SI staff avoid this forum like the plague these days!

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As anyone in the software industry will know, making a change to fix an issue is just one part. Ensuring there is no regression / impact of other areas is vital. Tuning will always be done with a view to low risk for obvious changes, especially with software as compex as FM

The game is playable currently and will hopefully get "tuned" slightly in due course. The regular FM'rs will know how SI work.

By all means log isses in the bugs forum and improvements / new features / changes to features in the appropriate forums. Its how content for future FM's starts

First of all I am a pretty old and "regular" FMer I would say. I know they don't communicate a lot about their bug-fixing progress, but I do recall more frequent patching. And I definitely feel there are more technical issues this year since maybe FM11 or something.

But I don't have a problem with any of that. I just would like to know that the focus is mainly on fixing the technical issues first and then dealing with balancing/ME.

Also, I happen to be a senior software engineer with a high function testing background, so I believe I have some understanding in this area. That's why I won't ever bash the developers since I know what a monster of code FM is. I just wonder about the priorities which by the way are very frequently not decided from the developers themselves...

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First of all I am a pretty old and "regular" FMer I would say. I know they don't communicate a lot about their bug-fixing progress, but I do recall more frequent patching.

Then you're recalling wrong. They have generally done 3 patches per release. Release day, Xmas-ish and post transfer window Feb/March-ish. The advent of Steam has allowed them to do the odd hotfix but they are a very new addition. Maybe FM13 onwards.

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Then you're recalling wrong. They have generally done 3 patches per release. Release day, Xmas-ish and post transfer window Feb/March-ish. The advent of Steam has allowed them to do the odd hotfix but they are a very new addition. Maybe FM13 onwards.

Possible. I was actually searching around if I can find dates of patches of FM14 to see when we can more or less expect it for FM15 too, since I imagine there is a steady release schedule every year

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What would you like?

I mean they can't say when it will be sorted, all they can say is "we are working on it", what more do you want?

You have said you know they are working on it, so what more do you want?

No wonder some of the SI staff avoid this forum like the plague these days!

A simple word if there is progress or not.

Even if they have nothing, an official word about it is always welcomed.

If they do avoid the forum like a plague then it's, let's call it, not optimal customer service.

One of the most important things in customer service is to always inform the customers about

situations. Even if there is nothing to inform about.

Unfortunately it seems that it should be acceptable to skip that when communicating digitally.

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What would you like?

I mean they can't say when it will be sorted, all they can say is "we are working on it", what more do you want?

You have said you know they are working on it, so what more do you want?

No wonder some of the SI staff avoid this forum like the plague these days!

Exactly what I noted repeatedly, an official response, visible on the main page. It's a major issue, and it's clear that it's taking some serious time to fix. Them taking their time isn't the issue, it's the lack of visibility of a response. A clear statement stickied in general discussion would until the problem is fixed would make it clear how serious they find the problem, and prevent further threads popping up about it. At this time though, the responses are limited to "when asked".

First of all I am a pretty old and "regular" FMer I would say. I know they don't communicate a lot about their bug-fixing progress, but I do recall more frequent patching. And I definitely feel there are more technical issues this year since maybe FM11 or something.

But I don't have a problem with any of that. I just would like to know that the focus is mainly on fixing the technical issues first and then dealing with balancing/ME.

Also, I happen to be a senior software engineer with a high function testing background, so I believe I have some understanding in this area. That's why I won't ever bash the developers since I know what a monster of code FM is. I just wonder about the priorities which by the way are very frequently not decided from the developers themselves...

They don't, but equally for large issues it is hardly unreasonable to get a sticky if they are taking a while to make sure it's clear that they are taking it very seriously. It seems like something that is going out of fashion in the industry to actually be open and direct with the customers about such issues, and maybe they feel that having a stickied known issues thread on general discussion (which is open to the public) might affect sales while major issues are ongoing, but surely it's better for them to be open and clear about it instead of getting new customers offside anyhow.

The one and only way it could be remotely 'unplayable' due to this is if you constantly save and re-load before games or other important events.

That's a nice assumption you go going there, but how about I give an actual description.

To be clear about this, I suffer from OCD, and this is the root of much of what makes it unplayble for me, but I still feel that the issue is a very severe one, especially considering the response from many people about it. To be completely honest I don't really want to clog up the thread with full detail, but essentially having had issues with crashes and power cuts while playing in the past, it gives me a great feeling of unrest to not save after each match (and after the last day of the transfer window). At this point it could account for a huge fraction of the time while playing the game. What's worse is that this particular program triggers me in a different manner, with the time and way the bar moves when being saved causing some distress due to how unusual it comes across as for a Football Manager game (essentially it looks like it may have crashed while saving). Those together render it unplayble for me.

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A simple word if there is progress or not.

Even if they have nothing, an official word about it is always welcomed.

If they do avoid the forum like a plague then it's, let's call it, not optimal customer service.

One of the most important things in customer service is to always inform the customers about

situations. Even if there is nothing to inform about.

Unfortunately it seems that it should be acceptable to skip that when communicating digitally.

They (and us) have said they are still working on it. Repeatedly. Since no hotfix has come out, it's pretty obvious they are still working on it.

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A simple word if there is progress or not.

Even if they have nothing, an official word about it is always welcomed.

If they do avoid the forum like a plague then it's, let's call it, not optimal customer service.

One of the most important things in customer service is to always inform the customers about

situations. Even if there is nothing to inform about.

Unfortunately it seems that it should be acceptable to skip that when communicating digitally.

This is nonsense.

What type of 'progress' would you like them to convey? That it's half finished? That it was nearly finished so now they have to start again?

They are under no obligation to even tell people they're working on it. In fact, they're under no obligation to have such an open forum at all. Go and log on to EA's page, and ask them to convey to the customers an exact timetable of when they're issues will be fixed.

The misplaced sense of entitlement people have is unreal at times.

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A simple word if there is progress or not.

Even if they have nothing, an official word about it is always welcomed.

If they do avoid the forum like a plague then it's, let's call it, not optimal customer service.

One of the most important things in customer service is to always inform the customers about

situations. Even if there is nothing to inform about.

Unfortunately it seems that it should be acceptable to skip that when communicating digitally.

They do. By telling people that it's a known issue, and being worked on. Eleven million times a day when people who are never going to read a sticky or similar ask the same question.

And how exactly do you define "progress"? Given their (software developers) idea of progress isn't something you're going to update the regular punter with, I'd imagine they'd differ. We;re not talking about some indie developer, with a small team of people working in their bedrooms. People like that can get away with a much more personalised service, development updates, the works. Much as they would be interesting, SI won't get away with this thanks to a lot of idiots on here. The reason they avoid the forum is because of the customers. I wasn't here when they did, but they used to be a lot more communicative. They were pretty much chased away, so they withdrew that olive branch. Quite right too. The extent of SI's duty to us is to release the game and support it during its lifetime. They're doing that. They owe us nothing else.

I wondered how long it would be before the "customer is always right" attitude was brought up...:rolleyes:

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It's pretty simple - they work on it internally - they fix the problems - then they test it to make sure nothing else broke in the mean time - then test test test - then when it's ready it's released.

There's no way to timetable that. It's not an exact date, it's not an event, the patch could be ready tomorrow, or it could be ready in 3 months.

One thing for sure is that they are working on it and when they're satisified it's good to release then they release it.

We have absolutely no right to demand a schedule, unless you're on the Board of Sega or SI - then you can ask for a timetable.

But it's an internal thing.

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They (and us) have said they are still working on it. Repeatedly. Since no hotfix has come out, it's pretty obvious they are still working on it.

They have said it to individuals when asked directly, but they haven't given a direct visible response in general discussion to make it clear how serious they take the issue. How long they take isn't the issue here, it's the lack of communication. I agree with roykela on this one. Just because people have already paid doesn't mean that they can treat people with silence on such large issues. Ultimately the key is that they get it fixed, but a stickied response would be very refreshing, even if it's just one of the SI Team simply stating "We have identified an issue with the length of time saving takes, we're working on it, we'll let you know when we have news". Surely that isn't too much to ask.

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It's pretty simple - they work on it internally - they fix the problems - then they test it to make sure nothing else broke in the mean time - then test test test - then when it's ready it's released.

There's no way to timetable that. It's not an exact date, it's not an event, the patch could be ready tomorrow, or it could be ready in 3 months.

One thing for sure is that they are working on it and when they're satisified it's good to release then they release it.

We have absolutely no right to demand a schedule, unless you're on the Board of Sega or SI - then you can ask for a timetable.

But it's an internal thing.

Again, the time isn't the issue. The SI team are great, they tend to get the job done, and brilliantly at that. The issue here is one of communication. They don't need to give a time frame, a date, anything, just acknowledge in a visible manner that they have recognised this problem and sticky it on the general discussion page.

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Again, the time isn't the issue. The SI team are great, they tend to get the job done, and brilliantly at that. The issue here is one of communication. They don't need to give a time frame, a date, anything, just acknowledge in a visible manner that they have recognised this problem and sticky it on the general discussion page.

It's been said already, very few people read the stickies, especially those that are going to come on here and post about the issue without actually doing some research on whether it's already been talked about. So discounting that, I'm not sure what gets more visible than the probably hundreds of utterances of "It's a known issue, we're working on it" they've already posted on this subject.

One other point, what exactly would what you're asking for achieve? It won't make it arrive any faster, and it won't make any difference in the grand scheme of things. In fact, it (negligibly I admit) has a negative effect as it involves someone on the relevant team having to tell someone else what is going on. Even if it's "we're working on it", which it would be. They're never going to tell you that it's ready, because it could go backwards. Once it's ready it'll be released.

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It's pretty simple - they work on it internally - they fix the problems - then they test it to make sure nothing else broke in the mean time - then test test test - then when it's ready it's released.

There's no way to timetable that. It's not an exact date, it's not an event, the patch could be ready tomorrow, or it could be ready in 3 months.

One thing for sure is that they are working on it and when they're satisified it's good to release then they release it.

We have absolutely no right to demand a schedule, unless you're on the Board of Sega or SI - then you can ask for a timetable.

But it's an internal thing.

Nailed it.

It's been established that's being looked, and is still being looked. Considering they hav actually responded to people when asked ( I know for a fact Neil responded directly yesterday on a bugs thread, where such issues are meant to be brought up), and moderators also repeated this, it's obvious there is no silence on this.

So we are moving on now.

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It's been said already, very few people read the stickies, especially those that are going to come on here and post about the issue without actually doing some research on whether it's already been talked about. So discounting that, I'm not sure what gets more visible than the probably hundreds of utterances of "It's a known issue, we're working on it" they've already posted on this subject.

One other point, what exactly would what you're asking for achieve? It won't make it arrive any faster, and it won't make any difference in the grand scheme of things. In fact, it (negligibly I admit) has a negative effect as it involves someone on the relevant team having to tell someone else what is going on. Even if it's "we're working on it", which it would be. They're never going to tell you that it's ready, because it could go backwards. Once it's ready it'll be released.

What it would achieve is making it clear how seriously they are taking the issue, that it isn't just another bug like the abundance of Eneko Osias being produced. The problem with how it's being done is that it makes it come across as just some minor bug that'll get fixed at some point, rather than a serious bug that they're actively working through. This can create a false impression that it's just some minor point that will be patched when they get around to it, whilst making a direct statement would make it clear that it is of the utmost importance. No time frame needs to be given, just a clearly visible acknowledgement of such bugs to avoid any such confusion.

Just in general I feel at the very least, a serious bugs sticky should exist so the acknowledged serious bugs would be a bit clearer.

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They take every issue and bug seriously. Every single one.

Some are a priority and some are not so much a priority.

But they need to put more urgent issues at the top of the queue, and they do - that's how all software/coding companies work.

Some issues are so big that there probably isn't a forseeable short term solution so they work on them for the entire year and incorporate them into next year's patch/game.

Every single bug is being looked at - and some bug fixes simply won't be ready for the next patch - that's just the way it is, as some other bugs take higher priority.

I'm sure they endeavour to have every bug fixed, but some will have to wait while they sort out.

You have to understand - there's only so much they can do in a short amount of time.

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They take every issue and bug seriously. Every single one.

Some are a priority and some are not so much a priority.

But they need to put more urgent issues at the top of the queue, and they do - that's how all software/coding companies work.

Some issues are so big that there probably isn't a forseeable short term solution so they work on them for the entire year and incorporate them into next year's patch/game.

Every single bug is being looked at - and some bug fixes simply won't be ready for the next patch - that's just the way it is, as some other bugs take higher priority.

I'm sure they endeavour to have every bug fixed, but some will have to wait while they sort out.

You have to understand - there's only so much they can do in a short amount of time.

I get this isn't a response to me, but this is the exact reason an official response on such serious bugs would help. No time frame ever needs to be given, but it helps prevent the impression that such a serious bug is being ignored, put on the backburner or brushed aside.

In fairness, it isn't THAT serious. I mean, it doesn't cause the game to stop, or actively stop you from playing it (unless you have OCD apparently).

Again, others have reported it as causing serious issues.

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I get this isn't a response to me, but this is the exact reason an official response on such serious bugs would help. No time frame ever needs to be given, but it helps prevent the impression that such a serious bug is being ignored, put on the backburner or brushed aside.

But no-one sensible has that impression. They see SI say they're working on it, and just accept it and get on with their lives.

Again, others have reported it as causing serious issues.

It's one issue. Saves are slow. There's no variation in how serious the bug is for one person to another, apart from exactly how long. That doesn't make it any more serious though. If you couldn't save at all, that would be very serious. You can. It's slow. On the development scale (maybe the one SI use, not sure), it's a Major. Above trivial and minor, and below Critical and Apocalyptic. No idea on what other issues are on the plate, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some considered more important.

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Again, the time isn't the issue. The SI team are great, they tend to get the job done, and brilliantly at that. The issue here is one of communication. They don't need to give a time frame, a date, anything, just acknowledge in a visible manner that they have recognised this problem and sticky it on the general discussion page.

If you report a bug in the bugs forum QA will mark it reviewed which (along with any comment they make) is notification to you that they acknowledge it and it's been entered into Testrack.

That is visible acknowledgement in the correct forum for communications about bugs.

GD is not the place for SI to communicate about bugs, in general it's where we Mods pass on the message on their behalf for those who can't be bothered to look in the right place (or genuinely can't find anything about their issue)

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This is nonsense.

What type of 'progress' would you like them to convey? That it's half finished? That it was nearly finished so now they have to start again?

They are under no obligation to even tell people they're working on it. In fact, they're under no obligation to have such an open forum at all. Go and log on to EA's page, and ask them to convey to the customers an exact timetable of when they're issues will be fixed.

The misplaced sense of entitlement people have is unreal at times.

" A simple of word if there is progress or not". Don't forget the "or not".

Is it a tricky one? Is it a simple one but seem to have other knock-on effects, which might take even more time?

Do they just want to wait so they can have more fixes and improvement in place before releasing a possible update?

Stuff like that.

You're right. They are under no obligation. Nobody are. They're working on it...as far as we know.

They might even be done fixing the problem even.

I know EA is terrible but i wasn't saying anything about a timetable.

Nonsense? It's basic customer service.

They do. By telling people that it's a known issue, and being worked on. Eleven million times a day when people who are never going to read a sticky or similar ask the same question.

And how exactly do you define "progress"? Given their (software developers) idea of progress isn't something you're going to update the regular punter with, I'd imagine they'd differ. We;re not talking about some indie developer, with a small team of people working in their bedrooms. People like that can get away with a much more personalised service, development updates, the works. Much as they would be interesting, SI won't get away with this thanks to a lot of idiots on here. The reason they avoid the forum is because of the customers. I wasn't here when they did, but they used to be a lot more communicative. They were pretty much chased away, so they withdrew that olive branch. Quite right too. The extent of SI's duty to us is to release the game and support it during its lifetime. They're doing that. They owe us nothing else.

I wondered how long it would be before the "customer is always right" attitude was brought up...:rolleyes:

See the response above, to Dagenham_Dave. That's what i mean with progress, or not.

Again, please don't forget about the "or not".

Doesn't matter if it's an indie developer or not. Bigger companies have better opportunities to communicate with their customers. So that's a backwards excuse.

It doesn't have to be personalised. A simple verbal (digitally would probably work the best here :D) word could do wonders.

They avoid the forum because of the customers?!?!

Somehow the name Basil Fawlty comes to mind. They should be doing the opposite.

Don't get me wrong, i know SI are brilliant, compared to other companies, when it comes to including themselves with the community.

So if the community (or a minor, vocal few) becomes loud and unreasonable they are right in sticking their heads in the sand?

Instead of actually moderating the forums properly they should turn around and not listen?

THAT'S when problems will escalate.

It doesn't take much. Just a simple few lines.

There will always be "idiots". They will continue to scream and shout louder and louder.

If SI (or companies in general) should turn away because of that minority then they are letting the majority down.

The paradox is that the majority will accept it, even though they complain about that particular minority's idiocy - and thus, indirectly defending them.

I know....it doesn't seem like it makes much sense, but think really hard about it. Then hopefully you'll get what i'm saying. Unless you did get it immediately.

There's only one thing they owe us. A product that is working as intended.

If it's not working as intended then they owe the customers to get the product to that state.

What's intended? Only SI really knows.

This is also the feedback thread. It would be nice if it was a two-way street.

We give them feedback. They give us feedback.

I'll leave it at that, as we're completely derailing from the main purpose of this thread.

Now back to getting an awful Swedish team to start climbing the ladder :D

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If you report a bug in the bugs forum QA will mark it reviewed which (along with any comment they make) is notification to you that they acknowledge it and it's been entered into Testrack.

That is visible acknowledgement in the correct forum for communications about bugs.

GD is not the place for SI to communicate about bugs, in general it's where we Mods pass on the message on their behalf for those who can't be bothered to look in the right place (or genuinely can't find anything about their issue)

Indeed.

Again going to point out Neil gave a direct reply yesterday on it's status.

If you create a bug thread, you tend to get a direct answer.

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To give some visibility of the official SI position on this problem (and hopefully draw a line under this issue in the thread for a while), here is a very recent response from Neil Brock in a Bug Report, which I have linked below:

It's very high priority for us and hopefully we'll be able to make changes to improve this soon. Thanks.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/407554-Saving-the-game.

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To give some visibility of the official SI position on this problem (and hopefully draw a line under this issue in the thread for a while), here is a very recent response from Neil Brock in a Bug Report, which I have linked below:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/407554-Saving-the-game.

That's exactly the sort of feedback (word) i was talking about.

It would be nice if they could use this feedback thread as well, a bit more, when it comes to stuff like that.

Just a personal wish :)

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