4-3-3 SchemeServe (FM15)

[Jim-Beam]

Early days with new patch, in an online game with my buddy and I'm the gooners. Positive pre-season and beat hull 4-1 at home and stoke away 3-1 ...(beskitas beaten in between)...still doing well so far for me however bigger tests to come obviously..

[EdJames]

Early days with new patch, in an online game with my buddy and I'm the gooners. Positive pre-season and beat hull 4-1 at home and stoke away 3-1 ...(beskitas beaten in between)...still doing well so far for me however bigger tests to come obviously..

I got murdered 4-0 by Chelsea on the new patch - have now replayed the match about 20 times writing notes on how the tactic does and doesn't work. Have made decent headway in understanding the new patch, but those bloody crosses are still undefendable yet ineffective when you do them yourself.

Biggest advice i can offer at the moment is that your front three MUST be flat in a straight line, if either IF creeps beyond the F9 in your average positioning, put them back onto a support duty. Spacing between each player should be equal so adjust your mentalities accordingly to get those perfect, clean triangles.

[Jim-Beam]

So, IFs both on support you recommend? any change to players instructions you think for them two?

[EdJames]

So, IFs both on support you recommend? any change to players instructions you think for them two?

No, not both on support by any means. Watch the match and if one is seen to be pushing up too far, drop back his mentality.

[ray.13]

ive changed a few team instructs and haven't lost in 5 with toon

http://gyazo.com/48c86109edfabf13f6de60144a073ee3 and instructs...http://gyazo.com/0257cb4e628884d5fe2d4b070721a015

[Jim-Beam]

No, not both on support by any means. Watch the match and if one is seen to be pushing up too far, drop back his mentality.

Makes sense

[Spike]

FFS is it actually possible to defend crosses or do you just have to sit & watch the opposition score every time they pump the ball into the box????

[Spike]

Just lost to Liverpool 2-1 at home, both of their goals scored by Skrtel from crosses. The match stats were;

Shots - Arsenal 25 - 4 Liverpool

SoT - Arsenal 13 - 3 Liverpool

Possession - Arsenal 58% - 42% Liverpool

Absolute joke.

[bluebirds4life]

Update's killed this tactic

So many leaked crosses/nowhere near enough goals.

Wish we could choose which patch we'd like to play on.

Massively de-moralizing as this was unreal....

[Spike]

Tbh the tactic is working great in terms of shots & possession, just a lack of goals scored from those shots for some reason.

The crosses thing is a major issue though.

[Jim-Beam]

Update's killed this tactic

So many leaked crosses/nowhere near enough goals.

Wish we could choose which patch we'd like to play on.

Massively de-moralizing as this was unreal....

I know every game is different but I feel this is still really effective, doing the business in my online game, been to my beloved anfield and won 3-1 followed up by beating man utd 2-0 at home (as arsenal by the way) , thx again Ed

[gmulv]

yet another update.

I'm looking forward to trying this with the new update, as it has worked wonders for me in each version so far with Liverpool.

A few minimla tweaks here and there.

Liverpool really lend themselves to thsi type of tactic with the players available.

It does leak goals, but then so does every single tactic I have tried so far. But with this one I seem to score more that I leak, which isn't an ideal situation but I'll take it.

Ed keep up the great work

[Jim-Beam]

Newcastle away 6-1 (they were 4th) this update has not killed this tactic at all. Screenshots to follow...(I can never get photobucket to give good readable images in these forums! any other recommendations? )

[ray.13]

http://gyazo.com/bd60fec111cb93aaefeff5ab79f5b528 use this jim..gyazo.com .screen grabber..v good

[Jim-Beam]

http://gyazo.com/bd60fec111cb93aaefeff5ab79f5b528 use this jim..gyazo.com .screen grabber..v good

Thanks

[Mattjohn]

Could someone please help me, When you download it from steam, where does it download to as I cannot find it?

[hm86]

Could someone please help me, When you download it from steam, where does it download to as I cannot find it?

I'm having the same issue with everything I subscribe to in Steam

[Spike]

Try downloading it using the other link (Mega NZ).

You can then save it straight into the tactics folder on FM15.

[hm86]

Try downloading it using the other link (Mega NZ).

You can then save it straight into the tactics folder on FM15.

Thanks Spike, didn't even notice this haha

[EdJames]

Good God I wish this thread would become about discussing the tactic itself and less a constant stream of complaints and enquiries about getting it into the game...it's becoming tedious.

[Bizzy D]

I'm having the same issue with everything I subscribe to in Steam

http://i.imgur.com/gnKcG27.png Ignore that the game is in Swedish, just hit that and press import and you'll see the tactic : )

[Jim-Beam]

http://gyazo.com/7dab1214b993a55fa65761cdba9ee52b - results on current patch.

[deuce81]

http://gyazo.com/7dab1214b993a55fa65761cdba9ee52b - results on current patch.

Nice to see, have you made any changes to the tactics to get those results or are they straight out of the box?

[Jim-Beam]

Using Ed's amended 433 however I have been using in game shouts, if going a goal down, to keep calm and to concentrate when leading..never really used them before but they see to be having a positive effect

[TRFC23]

For those with issues with goals from crosses maybe this will help a little? It's a good read nevertheless

http://www.theawaystand.co.uk/community/topic/8110-utilising-a-winger-defensively

[Spike]

Having played a number of games using this tactic, as Arsenal on 15.1.1 and more recently 15.1.3 I have a few observations.

1) the tactic works brilliantly in respect of playing possession football

2) the number of shots per game is at an exceptionally high level, scoring from the shots however is a totally different story (not sure if it's just me but the number of shots hitting the woodwork is very high)

3) I took your advice using Ozil in the F9 position and he hasn't been great (P12, G1, A5, AR6.96), despite not having it as a PPM he takes a lot of shots from outside the area (5+ per game)

Here are the stats from some recent games;

D1-1 v Villa - shots 26(7) to 6(1) & possession 63%-37%

L0-2 v Newcastle - shots 12(4) to 5(3) & possession 59% - 41%

L1-2 v Liverpool - shots 25(13) to 4(3) & possession 58%-42%

D1-1 v Standard - shots 25(10) to 7(2) & possession 54%-46%

I can only assume that there is a massive issue with the ME!

[EdJames]

http://gyazo.com/7dab1214b993a55fa65761cdba9ee52b - results on current patch.

Still looks really solid, that's good to see!

[EdJames]

Having played a number of games using this tactic, as Arsenal on 15.1.1 and more recently 15.1.3 I have a few observations.

1) the tactic works brilliantly in respect of playing possession football

2) the number of shots per game is at an exceptionally high level, scoring from the shots however is a totally different story (not sure if it's just me but the number of shots hitting the woodwork is very high)

3) I took your advice using Ozil in the F9 position and he hasn't been great (P12, G1, A5, AR6.96), despite not having it as a PPM he takes a lot of shots from outside the area (5+ per game)

Here are the stats from some recent games;

D1-1 v Villa - shots 26(7) to 6(1) & possession 63%-37%

L0-2 v Newcastle - shots 12(4) to 5(3) & possession 59% - 41%

L1-2 v Liverpool - shots 25(13) to 4(3) & possession 58%-42%

D1-1 v Standard - shots 25(10) to 7(2) & possession 54%-46%

I can only assume that there is a massive issue with the ME!

1) The stats you show actually show quite low possession which to me suggests some of the players you're using are struggling in the tactic due to the wrong attributes. I've almost never had it drop less than 60% on any patch, so something isn't quite right.

2) The number of shots is definitely high, but the important point is that long shots remain low (less than 25% of total shots) so the shots they're having are primarily from inside the area and should be encouraged. I'd agree, I seem to hit the posts a lot. I suspect because this generates so many shots, the ME is compensating by having them miss a lot more otherwise we'd win every game by 10 goals. It almost feels at times like I've broken the match engine and it's compensating by throwing what could be perceived as bad luck at me - perhaps just wishful thinking. After the game, have a look at the match analysis to see where your shots are coming from to make sure nobody is just firing off wasteful shots from distance (or shots that are being blocked). If they're being blocked, it may be because we're overplaying the ball and giving the opponent too much time to get behind the ball and make the stop.

3) Ozil was great for me in earlier patches, but that F9 position is definitely not working as well as it once did and I've had POSSIBLY more success playing Walcott in that F9 role as I have Ozil. I think basically whoever you play there is going to perform pretty well such is the nature of the tactic. It'd be interesting to play a big, lump of forward there to see how he performed (Yes Giroud, I'm looking at you). The constant shots he's having are probably because he's run out of other options - try to watch the game and see why he's shooting - are the inside forwards not taking up good positions? Are you midfielders failing to join the attack? Is he finding himself isolated? Watching the game is the only real way to find the problem.

[Spike]

1) The stats you show actually show quite low possession which to me suggests some of the players you're using are struggling in the tactic due to the wrong attributes. I've almost never had it drop less than 60% on any patch, so something isn't quite right.

My team is lined up as follows;

--------------------Ozil--------------------

-------Ramsey------------Sanchez-------

-----Cazorla----Khedira----Wilshere-----

Gibbs--Koscielny--Mertsacker--Debuchy

-----------------Szczesny-----------------

How does that compare to your starting line-up?

I used my usual training tactic of fitness training during pre-season and then straight into tactics training once the season started, so the team should be used to it by now.

As for the possession I thought that was reasonably high.

2) The number of shots is definitely high, but the important point is that long shots remain low (less than 25% of total shots) so the shots they're having are primarily from inside the area and should be encouraged. I'd agree, I seem to hit the posts a lot. I suspect because this generates so many shots, the ME is compensating by having them miss a lot more otherwise we'd win every game by 10 goals. It almost feels at times like I've broken the match engine and it's compensating by throwing what could be perceived as bad luck at me - perhaps just wishful thinking. After the game, have a look at the match analysis to see where your shots are coming from to make sure nobody is just firing off wasteful shots from distance (or shots that are being blocked). If they're being blocked, it may be because we're overplaying the ball and giving the opponent too much time to get behind the ball and make the stop.

Most of my shots seem to be going wide no matter where they come in from. I will however check at the end of the next few games to get a general idea of where we are shooting from.

3) Ozil was great for me in earlier patches, but that F9 position is definitely not working as well as it once did and I've had POSSIBLY more success playing Walcott in that F9 role as I have Ozil. I think basically whoever you play there is going to perform pretty well such is the nature of the tactic. It'd be interesting to play a big, lump of forward there to see how he performed (Yes Giroud, I'm looking at you). The constant shots he's having are probably because he's run out of other options - try to watch the game and see why he's shooting - are the inside forwards not taking up good positions? Are you midfielders failing to join the attack? Is he finding himself isolated? Watching the game is the only real way to find the problem.

I did retrain Ozil as a striker to help him out playing in the F9 position but this doesn't seem to have worked.

I sold Giroud (and Podolski) so I am going to give Welbeck a go there for a few games and see what happens.

Otherwise I am going to tweak the F9 position and try other striker variations there to see what happens.

Thanks for the tactic btw, apart from the ME issues it works great

[Deli]

Sorry is there an update to the tactics for the latest hotfix patch?

[EdJames]

Sorry is there an update to the tactics for the latest hotfix patch?

Not yet, still experimenting.

[EdJames]

My team is lined up as follows;

--------------------Ozil--------------------

-------Ramsey------------Sanchez-------

-----Cazorla----Khedira----Wilshere-----

Gibbs--Koscielny--Mertsacker--Debuchy

-----------------Szczesny-----------------

How does that compare to your starting line-up?

I used my usual training tactic of fitness training during pre-season and then straight into tactics training once the season started, so the team should be used to it by now.

As for the possession I thought that was reasonably high.

Most of my shots seem to be going wide no matter where they come in from. I will however check at the end of the next few games to get a general idea of where we are shooting from.

I did retrain Ozil as a striker to help him out playing in the F9 position but this doesn't seem to have worked.

I sold Giroud (and Podolski) so I am going to give Welbeck a go there for a few games and see what happens.

Otherwise I am going to tweak the F9 position and try other striker variations there to see what happens.

Thanks for the tactic btw, apart from the ME issues it works great

Ok, that gives me a little more to work with.

Swap Ramsey and Cazorla for starters, that's how I played my entire first season and Cazorla cutting in from the left onto his right foot was a source of many goals and assists. I'd also recommend trying to sign Yarmolenko as he performed exceptionally for me on the left when I sold Cazorla at the end of the first season. Otherwise there's nothing too out of place, but perhaps try Sanchez or Walcott in that F9 role - it worked for me with limited success. Very similar to my line up, but the biggest thing I did in the first window was stock up heavily on squad depth with the money I made from selling Podolski and Giroud - the rotation helped me physically dominate games as my players had excellent physical conditioning. Someone like Lucas Romero provides excellent depth, as does Gaston Gil Romero

As I say on the possession front, unless I were playing Chelsea, who I find it impossible to dominate, I'd be almost guaranteed not to get less than 60% possession.

If the tactic is creating shots that players pull wide for some reason, it's a sign of a good tactic with poor finishing and composure it would seem.

I'm going to see what I can do with Ozil to get him performing better in that role. I'm currently experimenting with him as a Deep Lying Forward.

[Spike]

Ok, that gives me a little more to work with.

Swap Ramsey and Cazorla for starters, that's how I played my entire first season and Cazorla cutting in from the left onto his right foot was a source of many goals and assists. I'd also recommend trying to sign Yarmolenko as he performed exceptionally for me on the left when I sold Cazorla at the end of the first season. Otherwise there's nothing too out of place, but perhaps try Sanchez or Walcott in that F9 role - it worked for me with limited success. Very similar to my line up, but the biggest thing I did in the first window was stock up heavily on squad depth with the money I made from selling Podolski and Giroud - the rotation helped me physically dominate games as my players had excellent physical conditioning. Someone like Lucas Romero provides excellent depth, as does Gaston Gil Romero

As I say on the possession front, unless I were playing Chelsea, who I find it impossible to dominate, I'd be almost guaranteed not to get less than 60% possession.

If the tactic is creating shots that players pull wide for some reason, it's a sign of a good tactic with poor finishing and composure it would seem.

I'm going to see what I can do with Ozil to get him performing better in that role. I'm currently experimenting with him as a Deep Lying Forward.

I did the same in terms of selling Podolski £20m, Grioud £17.75m & Campbell £13m. I brought in Jones £26m, Khedira £18m, Clyne £11.5m & Asensio £3.5m. I effectively now have 2 players in every position (I do this on every save I have ever played on FM).

I am also going to do some experimenting with Welbeck up front & see what happens (if it works i'll regret selling Podolski & Giroud lol).

[Spike]

My first plan is to switch the F9 to a Defensive Forward.

The thinking behind this is that the DF will harry the defence when the ball is lost, he will also hold up the ball allowing the Inside Forwards to run beyond him. Welbeck should be ideal in this role as it's pretty much what he does irl anyway.

First game beat Red Bull Salzburg 4-1. Welbeck scored 1 & made 2 assist, getting the MOM award with 9.0 rating. Overall possession was up to 65% too.

Interesting!

[EdJames]

I did the same in terms of selling Podolski £20m, Grioud £17.75m & Campbell £13m. I brought in Jones £26m, Khedira £18m, Clyne £11.5m & Asensio £3.5m. I effectively now have 2 players in every position (I do this on every save I have ever played on FM).

I am also going to do some experimenting with Welbeck up front & see what happens (if it works i'll regret selling Podolski & Giroud lol).

I somehow spent (by somehow I mean by over-using the option to pay over 36 months) over £100m on players in the first window!

In addition to a boatload of youth prospects for what has become a depressing Arsenal youth team, I bolstered my squad with Seydou Doumbia (£8.5m), Eder Alvarez Balanta (£7.25m), Andriy Yarmonlenko (£8m), Lucas Romero (£6.5m), Nicolas Nkoulou (£6m), Jordan Henderson (£24m), John Stones (£17.5m) and David Alaba (£42m).

That of course required a clearout of Arteta, Flamini, Monreal, Campbell, Podolski, Giroud and Rosicky raising nearly £75m of funds.

Season two however saw me hardly sign anybody whilst shipping out over £200m of overpriced talent following a convincing treble. I followed my usual policy of clearing out my ageing stars whilst also getting rid of those I was convinced had no long term future at the club such as Welbeck, Cazorla, Debuchy, Gibbs and Diaby.

[EdJames]

My first plan is to switch the F9 to a Defensive Forward.

The thinking behind this is that the DF will harry the defence when the ball is lost, he will also hold up the ball allowing the Inside Forwards to run beyond him. Welbeck should be ideal in this role as it's pretty much what he does irl anyway.

First game beat Red Bull Salzburg 4-1. Welbeck scored 1 & made 2 assist, getting the MOM award with 9.0 rating. Overall possession was up to 65% too.

Interesting!

The version I'm focussing on at the moment follow tactical theorems on high pressing more effectively and the defensive forward certainly offers something in that role, as would shifting both wingbacks forward into defensive winger roles.

[Spike]

I somehow spent (by somehow I mean by over-using the option to pay over 36 months) over £100m on players in the first window!

In addition to a boatload of youth prospects for what has become a depressing Arsenal youth team, I bolstered my squad with Seydou Doumbia (£8.5m), Eder Alvarez Balanta (£7.25m), Andriy Yarmonlenko (£8m), Lucas Romero (£6.5m), Nicolas Nkoulou (£6m), Jordan Henderson (£24m), John Stones (£17.5m) and David Alaba (£42m).

That of course required a clearout of Arteta, Flamini, Monreal, Campbell, Podolski, Giroud and Rosicky raising nearly £75m of funds.

Season two however saw me hardly sign anybody whilst shipping out over £200m of overpriced talent following a convincing treble. I followed my usual policy of clearing out my ageing stars whilst also getting rid of those I was convinced had no long term future at the club such as Welbeck, Cazorla, Debuchy, Gibbs and Diaby.

I always used to use the 48 month option to massively overspend lol. The FFP rules have stopped that now.

The version I'm focussing on at the moment follow tactical theorems on high pressing more effectively and the defensive forward certainly offers something in that role, as would shifting both wingbacks forward into defensive winger roles.

Second game beat QPR 4-0 with Welbeck again scoring and finishing with a 7.7 rating.

Next 2 games are against Liverpool & Man C. This will give me a more realistic view of how the change is performing.

[EdJames]

I always used to use the 48 month option to massively overspend lol. The FFP rules have stopped that now.

Second game beat QPR 4-0 with Welbeck again scoring and finishing with a 7.7 rating.

Next 2 games are against Liverpool & Man C. This will give me a more realistic view of how the change is performing.

Hattrick for Sanchez in the defensive role against Chelsea suggests it might well work...

[EdJames]

Always amazes me how lower tempo is less effective than higher tempo for pass numbers, accuracy and possession - goes completely against every tactical theorem I've ever read and most importantly, goes against SI's own descriptions of it's effect!

[Spike]

Hattrick for Sanchez in the defensive role against Chelsea suggests it might well work...

Defensive Winger or Forward?

Beat Liverpool 4-3, Welbeck scored for 3rd consecutive game since the tweak.

One major problem I have is injuries (guessing its a bug as I'm getting 2-3 injuries every game). Sanchez, Walcott, Gibbs, Wilshere, Debuchy & Cazorla all out for a minimum of 2 weeks atm.

[EdJames]

Defensive Winger or Forward?

Beat Liverpool 4-3, Welbeck scored for 3rd consecutive game since the tweak.

One major problem I have is injuries (guessing its a bug as I'm getting 2-3 injuries every game). Sanchez, Walcott, Gibbs, Wilshere, Debuchy & Cazorla all out for a minimum of 2 weeks atm.

Defensive forward on support, but on review, the scoreline was flattering.

I now got the possession back to 62% on average with around 550-600 passes and consistent wins, so I don't think a breakthrough is far off.

[Spike]

Its definitely having an impact. Just dominated Man C, although only managed a 1-1 draw. That's 13 goals in 4 games, better than I was doing before.

Not too unhappy with that result considering the amount of players out injured.

[EdJames]

I think the overall tactic needs some balancing to be honest.

I'm happy with the front players now and Wilshere is locked in that AP role, but I'm working on the Henderson/Ramsey combination to ensure better balance across the midfield and sticking Ramsey at DMCR in a Regista role with Henderson MC on a Ball Winning Midfielder (D) (A false DMC) is working very well in confusing the opposition. Equally, I've now told them to "Get Stuck In" which means you need to set your focus on Defending Set Pieces as they'll have a fair few! Thats seeing a lot more turnover of the ball, but the tempo has HAD to go back down to Slow as the Fast tempo just saw the ball given away too sloppily.

Sweeper keeper suddenly seems a genuine option too.

[Spike]

The Defensive Forward is definitely resulting in more goals, just scored another 3 away at Salzburg after being 2-0 down. If only the defensive issues could be sorted lol

Let me know how you get on with the tinkering. Won't be playing tomorrow, so hopefully you'll have it perfected by the time I'm back playing again

[Spike]

FFS now got 5 midfielders out injured for at least 2 weeks each!

Noticed a lot of Premier League teams play with a flat 5 in midfield. Must be a way to exploit that.

[EdJames]

FFS now got 5 midfielders out injured for at least 2 weeks each!

Noticed a lot of Premier League teams play with a flat 5 in midfield. Must be a way to exploit that.

Check average position on analysis, they very rarely actually play flat and will likely operate the exact 4-1-2-2-1 that this formation reverts to all by using roles that alter positioning via mentality.

Since you can't play through them, best way to exploit in theory is to play over them to a target man with onrushing midfielders

[Spike]

FFS now got 5 midfielders out injured for at least 2 weeks each!

Noticed a lot of Premier League teams play with a flat 5 in midfield. Must be a way to exploit that.

Just lost Diaby, 6 midfielders out injured

Getting to the point where I'm struggling to put out a team

Just lost my first game since the tweak, 3-2 to Swansea. Only kept 3 clean sheets in 20 games and one of those was a cup game against L1 opposition.

[EdJames]

Just lost Diaby, 6 midfielders out injured

Getting to the point where I'm struggling to put out a team

Just lost my first game since the tweak, 3-2 to Swansea. Only kept 3 clean sheets in 20 games and one of those was a cup game against L1 opposition.

I have played this Chelsea match near 50 times through now watching the tactic unfold and I think Sanchez has gone off injured in 25 of those matche and Wilshere in 15 of them. On average I'm subbing off two players per game due to injury.

[Spike]

I have played this Chelsea match near 50 times through now watching the tactic unfold and I think Sanchez has gone off injured in 25 of those matche and Wilshere in 15 of them. On average I'm subbing off two players per game due to injury.

Same here, although for me its been Diaby. Picked up a knock in 75-80% of the games he's played.

[Spike]

Thinking about trying to evolve my old FM13 tactic as that was defensively sound. Interested to see how it works on FM15.

GK (defend)

DCR (limited defender)

DC (ball playing defender)

DCL (limited defender)

WBR

WBL

MCR (advanced playmaker - attack/support)

MCL (ball winning midfielder - defend)

AMC (treqartista - attack)

STCR (poacher - attack)

STCL (complete forward - support)