FM15 Defenders Keep Trying Longballs!

[bigwoody]

Quick frustration, someone let me know if I'm missing something dumb.

I'm playing a 4-3-3 with a DM (think Barcelona, and the team is Barca). Roles like:

IF(A)-F9(S)-IF(A)

AP(S)-RP(S)

HB(D)

WB(S)-CD(D)-CD(D)-WB(S)

SK(A)

Very Fluid, Control

TIs include Be More Disciplined, Pass It Shorter, Play Out of Defense, Work Ball Into Box, Higher Tempo...the defenders even have individual "Pass It Short" instructions.

And yet, the CDs keep launching Longballs and essentially are gifting possession away. There are plenty of short options, but they try to hit the forwards. Am I missing something? How do I get them to stop this?

[RTHerringbone]

You say "TIs include....", have you got any others?

There are issues acknowledged with excessive direct passing and on the face of it, you've done all you can to stop it. Just wondering if there are any other TIs muddying the water.

[bigwoody]

Push Higher Up, Get Stuck In, Use Offside Trap

Pushing Higher Up might be a mentality thing, but I was attempting to stomp that all out with the TI/PIs. Very careful not to muddy the waters, all my expressiveness on offense comes from PIs now. It works, but the defender thing remains frustrating.

Waiting for the next match engine version, I suppose? Might be a good time to try some Stoke tactics

[Scully11]

I had the same problem with Newcastle all my defenders apart from my LB kept trying long balls i got a lot of goals from them but i also lost a lot of possession

[swansongs]

Your front 3 are high up, the half back is deep, and the two man midfield both occupy similar areas and are probably marked or crowded out. Your centrebacks may not have any nearer options available.

[bigwoody]

The half back appears to play it correctly, linking up with the roaming playmaker, AP, of fullbacks.

It's worth verifying though, I'll confirm/deny the "actually not enough support" hypothesis.

[swansongs]

I find giving my defenders 'Pass it short' instructions can sometimes increase long hopeful balls because their options are reduced so much, to the point where even a wingback is out of normal range.

Higher tempo decreases the amount of time they are allowed to look and/or wait for an option to present itself when they are on the ball, making it more likely they go for something outside normal instructions.

Most centrebacks have poor vision so you have to make it easy for them if you want patient distribution of from the back.

[spiker311]

I'm having the same issues but my setup is even more conservative. I'm set up in a 4411 like so

DLF(A)

AM(S)

WM(A), DLP(S), CM(D), WM(A)

FB(D), CD(D), CD(D), FB(D)

Rigid, Control

Retain Possession, Shorter Passing, Work Ball into Box, Lower Tempo, Be More Disciplined

I can control possession 55-60% most games, even when I'm the underdog. However, seems like most of my goals come from the CB chucking the ball forward to a streaking WM who lays it off to my ST.

[RTHerringbone]

A possible issue for you spiker311 is just how far up field those WM (A) players are when you gain possession. Are they up field, in space, out of range? Incidentally, I'm not sure that the balance on your flanks is great.

What about your MCs? Both should be deep when there's a turnover of possession deep in your half. Do they have space? If not, why not?

I occasionally see a bugged long pass, but they really are few and far between since we got ME1529. Have you tried adding a TI of Play Out Of Defence and PIs to Pass Shorter to your DCs?

[spiker311]

A possible issue for you spiker311 is just how far up field those WM (A) players are when you gain possession. Are they up field, in space, out of range? Incidentally, I'm not sure that the balance on your flanks is great.

Seems like they are usually hanging on the edge of the defensive line, waiting to run down a through ball on the counter. Setting them on attack keeps them pretty high up the field. My conundrum is that I like to keep at least 3 men set to "Attack". What has worked best for me in previous versions was setting both wide men to attack and one of my forwards to attack kept enough pressure on the opposing D to keep them from playing too high on me (i.e. makes them have to spread the field to cover more of the pitch). I just don't trust setting the wide men to "Automatic"! I don't ever want to be too deep, allowing my opponent to compress on me and get their FBs too involved in the attack.

I will tell you that I am more accustomed to the old 451 formation with a DM, not an AM. That usually kept enough men in the middle for the CB to lay off to the MF who would try and work the ball up the pitch.

What about your MCs? Both should be deep when there's a turnover of possession deep in your half. Do they have space? If not, why not?

To be honest, sometimes they have too much space which may be why the CB are chucking it instead of laying off easy passes. Maybe I have to think about adjusting to a 4141 so that a DM is hanging out closer to the CBs? That AM is almost useless anyways. My ST is scoring most of the goals as it stands now.

I occasionally see a bugged long pass, but they really are few and far between since we got ME1529. Have you tried adding a TI of Play Out Of Defence and PIs to Pass Shorter to your DCs?

Right now, I feel 5 TIs is actually too complex for me. I like to keep it simple but it's definitely worth considering.

[deserter]

Something like Defensive or Counter mentality would be worth a try. You can push higher and close down more to make you more aggressive without the ball, but with ball your players will want to take less risks and your wing backs won't get up so early and so on.

[RTHerringbone]

Something like Defensive or Counter mentality would be worth a try. You can push higher and close down more to make you more aggressive without the ball, but with ball your players will want to take less risks and your wing backs won't get up so early and so on.

But the default passing range at the back will be more direct than on a Mentality further up the scale.

[deserter]

But the default passing range at the back will be more direct than on a Mentality further up the scale.

That's true. But you can 'play out of defence'.

[swansongs]

'Play out of defence' used to set defenders passing range to the absolute shortest possible (which can be counter-productive as it reduces available options), and the PPM 'Tries to *play* way out of trouble' is supposedly more about dribbling than passing under pressure.

So I've never trusted that instruction tbh.

[nicodron]

I am having the same problem. I am playing with a counter-attack mentality, fluid

Formation is set as follows:

CF(s)

W(A)-BWM(D)-RP(s)-W(A)

DLP(D)

Fb(s)-CD(d)-CD(d)-Fb(s)

Team instructions: pass into space, work ball into box, play out of defense, whipped crosses, exploit flanks, close down more, more expressive.

CD(s) have individual instructions to play short passes, still I am finding them quite often just whopping the ball forward for no reason.

[Shake Appeal]

Guys, its the game. You shouldn't have to try this hard to get defenders to pass it out from the back.

[msfilter]

what are your defenders' composure, passing and decisions like?

[itsallaboutthierry]

Does anyone know which way the more/fewer risky passes PI would tip the balance on this? Would fewer risky passes encourage the CBs to retain pOssession more and hence play shorter passes out, or would playing out short from the back be considered the 'more risky' passing option?

[itsallaboutthierry]

Does anyone know which way the more/fewer risky passes PI would tip the balance on this? Would fewer risky passes encourage the CBs to retain pOssession more and hence play shorter passes out, or would playing out short from the back be considered the 'more risky' passing option?

Nevermind, these options aren't available to centre backs anyway.

[RTHerringbone]

Let's get this thread back on track:

Can people who feel they have issues here, please confirm how often per match they see these long passes, whether or not they have playmaker or Target Man Roles up field, and what sort of Role / Duty their defenders have, plus any Player Instructions and Team Instructions.

I only play FMC with Southampton at the moment, but when I watch Comprehensive Highlights, this isn't an issue for me. When I load .pkms into the Analysis Tab, my defender passing also seems acceptably short and on the occasions where the ball is played long, I'd say that the majority of those are understandable.

If there is an issue here, we need examples uploaded to the Bugs Forum please, which is a really quick process one you have installed the FileZilla client.