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Official Football Manager 2015 Pre Release Beta Feedback Thread - Update 15.0.3

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I reported 2 bugs in the conversation forum, I uploaded the screenshots necessary and was asked to upload the game itself, why??

Because a screenshot is just a screenshot, and the save game can give them a specific case to debug into to actually fix the thing.

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People aren't stupid, and if you fear they are, use a disclaimer, make it absolutely clear what this beta means.

To be fair, unless I hallucinated it, the beta version does pop up with a disclaimer when you first launch it. But they could probably do more to explain what they're looking for — and what they're not looking for — two weeks from release.

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It took till after the January window to finally get all the bugs out of FM14, nearly 3 months of bugs, updates, more bugs, more updates etc

You just wonder if at times SI have gone too deep with the game and have missed the point making it overly hard and complicated to play, hence taking away the fun of the game.

I reported 2 bugs in the conversation forum, I uploaded the screenshots necessary and was asked to upload the game itself, why?? I deleted the game and had started a new one as I'm playing around with the beta till it finally goes live. Surely a screenshot of my MIDFIELDER telling me his passing was not important because he was a DEFENDER, is enough for them to see it's wrong.......or even a screenshot of a player berating me in public for changing captain, then in his info page it says he's DElIGHTED at the appointment of the NEW CAPTAIN but they wanted an uploaded game??? was a screenshot not enough to see a bug.

Seeing a bug isn't the same as fixing it.

Your save game would have provided SI with the exact situation where the bug occurs. It would have allowed them to look inside and fix whatever was causing it. A screenshot is nice to look at and it makes people aware of the problem, but it doesn't come close to having the actual example.

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Lower league football (second portoguese division) still unplayable. Goalkeeper and defense are horrible, worse than before.

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To be fair, unless I hallucinated it, the beta version does pop up with a disclaimer when you first launch it. But they could probably do more to explain what they're looking for — and what they're not looking for — two weeks from release.

There's a string that appears on every single screen at the bottom left. It's not the most visible, or attention-grabbing, but it's there.

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I'd imagine that depends on how useful the feedback is. Constructive feedback with save-games if necessary: good. Short posts saying that x and y features are rubbish and need fixing immediately: not so good. Some people see the beta as getting the game early, perhaps not realising how many bugs can be fixed in a short period with constructive feedback backed up with evidence.

Not really. It tells you quantitatively that many people are having trouble with it and maybe it should be high priority.

Anyway, the biggest reason people are posting short posts like that are because they can't see if the point has been made. No one is going to wade through this megathread, and no one imagines more than a couple of people will see their post, so they naturally feel the need to make the point as forcefully as possible. If there were a subforum for suggestions and feedback with individual threads, people would be able to see and discuss each particular problem and the developer could mark each point as read and under consideration---a lot like the bugs subforum here. Add some kind of poll feature for "What do you want to see changed/fixed the most?" and you'd see most of the non-constructive feedback disappear. Cf. a developer like Amplitude Studios, who were built on the back of community feedback.

People aren't disagreeable jerks for no reason; the structure and effectiveness of communication makes all the difference.

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The Good:

- Thank you for toning down the skin colours, my eyes have stopped bleeding, and my epileptic sister is recovering well.

- Impressed that I have not encountered a crash yet considering fm14 still crashes on me all the time

The Bad:

- Although I initially liked the idea of the attribute range, I agree with others that it looks messy and is really difficult to see at a glance what you are looking at. I feel like a better way of conveying the need for more scouting would just be to hide certain attributes all together. mental attributes for example would be more difficult to scout realistically and so would require more scouting to obtain these.

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Because a screenshot is just a screenshot, and the save game can give them a specific case to debug into to actually fix the thing.

It was a conversation and had nothing to do with the game play, I told a midfielder he was pants and he told me he was a defender??

Another moans to the press I changed captains, yet is delighted withe new captain appointment in his info.

Anyway as i said i deleted the save and started again.

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Wow my fullbacks really don't defend at all since the update. Have to start tweaking my tactics. Every attack of the opponent results into a cross from the wing. Seems different from before the update.

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This, and more..

It truly baffles me that there is a feedback thread and yet we're constantly told, you have to upload some data otherwise this feedback thread is just nonsense.

If enough people complain about the same issues, surely there is an issue that needs to be looked at. There isn't really anything stopping SI reading through this thread and saying hey, all these people are having this problem, let's take a look at it.

A pet peeve of mine is, all the issues that were wrong with FM14, are wrong with this game too. There current system clearly isn't working. And I too, wonder, how on earth 2 weeks is enough to iron out all the issues with this game, when they couldn't get it right during the entire life cycle of FM14.

It greatly bothers me, that I buy a game on release that is clearly unfinished. Have to wait until feb or some time to get the "final" release of the game, by which point I'm burnt out dealing with all the current issues. To realize, even the feb update isn't really fixed, and we start the whole vicious cycle again in the next iteration of FM. Which generally leaves, us, the customer, without ever having a finished product.

I don't see how more testers, and more obt's can be of anything else other than beneficial. It's not hard to put a disclaimer saying, dude it's beta, there are issues, this is a testing period, please find issues for us to fix.

The MMO community doesn't get confused with the terms of Early Access vs Beta. - Why should this playerbase be any different. People aren't stupid, and if you fear they are, use a disclaimer, make it absolutely clear what this beta means.

We might end up getting something resembling a completed game on launch

What you don't seem to understand is while they are fixing all the issues in FM14 they were working on FM15.

And likely so right now, even though they are beta testing FM15 - there are definitely a team of people working on FM16 right now.

While the rest of the team work on fixing what's wrong with FM15, and as you rightly point out the game is fully patched by February/March with no more patches.

Do you want them to start Beta Testing FM16 in February or March? When do you think it will be ready for beta testing?

You do realise there are tests before the Beta, the clue is in the title, Beta being the 2nd letter of the Greek Alphabet, before they release a Beta a Alpha is created, and before that a "pre-alpha". But only Betas are released to the public, and it's at this point a lot of issues are pointed out, likely they are aware of 99% of what's going wrong.

This is why a Beta gets released 2 weeks for the launch, because they've already gone through 2 rounds of testing, and fixing a lot of issues that they already knew existed, that's how they get them fixed before the release. Granted the Beta testing gives them feedback and releasing the patches to fix the beta appeases the users. Then the game is released.

If they don't know what's wrong with someones game how can they fix it? That's why they ask for PKMs and saved files, so they can test the issues themselves.

Albeit, I reckon that 99% of the issues brought up are already being handled by the staff.

But the point of this thread is to give feedback about the game - bugs are a different story. So you are asked to Beta test game, provide feedback on what is good and bad about it.

Then if you find a bug or what you think to be a bug then upload that file so they can take a look - but most likely they already are aware of it. But the more data they can get their hands on the better.

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Seeing a bug isn't the same as fixing it.

Your save game would have provided SI with the exact situation where the bug occurs. It would have allowed them to look inside and fix whatever was causing it. A screenshot is nice to look at and it makes people aware of the problem, but it doesn't come close to having the actual example.

AsI posted elsewhere I re started the game from initial save, so save was lost.

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It was a conversation and had nothing to do with the game play

It had plenty to do with gameplay. Why do you think pretty much every sticky in the bugs forum asks for a save from just before the bug occurs? So they can reproduce it and find what's causing the error. News item, conversation... doesn't matter.

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It was a conversation and had nothing to do with the game play, I told a midfielder he was pants and he told me he was a defender??

Another moans to the press I changed captains, yet is delighted withe new captain appointment in his info.

Anyway as i said i deleted the save and started again.

You did it in the game, right? Then it's gameplay. That bug is produced by a line of code, which they can't identify very quickly from a screenshot. They can from a save game.

Despite this issue baffling you, it is one thing that I find annoying about bugs. I completely understand why they need saves, but if the primary way of identifying and working on bugs relies on the luck of a user having a save directly before and after the bug, then you're always going to miss things. Not that there's much you can do about that in this situation.

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It truly baffles me that there is a feedback thread and yet we're constantly told, you have to upload some data otherwise this feedback thread is just nonsense.

If enough people complain about the same issues, surely there is an issue that needs to be looked at. There isn't really anything stopping SI reading through this thread and saying hey, all these people are having this problem, let's take a look at it.

Some issues are hard to create and don't happen all the time, having a PKM or save game showing the issue saves time and allows SI to look under the hood at the cause.

A pet peeve of mine is, all the issues that were wrong with FM14, are wrong with this game too. There current system clearly isn't working. And I too, wonder, how on earth 2 weeks is enough to iron out all the issues with this game, when they couldn't get it right during the entire life cycle of FM14.

Which issues are they?

It greatly bothers me, that I buy a game on release that is clearly unfinished. Have to wait until feb or some time to get the "final" release of the game, by which point I'm burnt out dealing with all the current issues. To realize, even the feb update isn't really fixed, and we start the whole vicious cycle again in the next iteration of FM. Which generally leaves, us, the customer, without ever having a finished product.

FM has been playable on release for the last few years and you haven't had to wait to February to play the game.

What you also fail to grasp is that FM will never be "finished", particularly the ME because of the type of game it is. The ME is always WIP and will continue to be until the day FM dies.

I don't see how more testers, and more obt's can be of anything else other than beneficial. It's not hard to put a disclaimer saying, dude it's beta, there are issues, this is a testing period, please find issues for us to fix.

From what I hear the testers generally find most of the issues in testing anyway, its just that there isn't enough time to fix everything that gets reported so SI prioritise.

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One thing I'd be interested in, and what might get SI some points with some complainers, is to see the fix list from day 1 of the main testing stage. That is, a list of every single issue that FM15 had before the testers got their hands on it. Then you could compare it to the known issues we have, say, now. I'd imagine they'd be by many magnitudes larger before than after.

Before anyone says it, I know they'll never do this.

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Signed Diego Godin and sold Per Mertesacker, which results in the team complaining about the sale and making me promise to get a replacement, why do they not realise Godin was his replacement :(

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I'd love to see the list of issues posted on the forum and the list of issues that they have fixed.

They must file them somehow, be interesting to see what from this thread they picked up on and actually fixed.

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One thing I'd be interested in, and what might get SI some points with some complainers, is to see the fix list from day 1 of the main testing stage. That is, a list of every single issue that FM15 had before the testers got their hands on it. Then you could compare it to the known issues we have, say, now. I'd imagine they'd be by many magnitudes larger before than after.

Before anyone says it, I know they'll never do this.

Haha yeah they won't. Why? Because a lot of people don't even notice most bugs before they are reported. You would basically sort of tell people: Hey, there is something wrong with this game. And then people will look for the faults. Call it a self fulfilling prophecy.

There is an unwritten rule here no to use car analogies, but.......

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I think it's about time people stopped telling SI how to run their business in this thread so we can use it for it's proper purpose which is providing feedback which will help improve the game both pre and post release.

If you want to discuss Beta testing in general (or even specifically) open another thread, then this thread might become useful again.

Edit;

This isn't a request :) if you don't desist we'll start deleting posts.

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I just want the Mac performance to be fixed and I'm a happy man. Please give Mac users some love!

What exactly are the performance issues you are facing?

Can you post the specs of your Mac?

Click on the "Blue Apple Icon" in the top left corner of your screen.

Then, choose "About This Mac".

Then, click on "More Info..."

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I just want the Mac performance to be fixed and I'm a happy man. Please give Mac users some love!

Rest assured we are working on these. I'm a Mac user and I want some love.

If you haven't already, please head to the Mac Specific Issues forum and provide your system details. Thanks :)

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Wow my fullbacks really don't defend at all since the update. Have to start tweaking my tactics. Every attack of the opponent results into a cross from the wing. Seems different from before the update.

Same thing here. Too many byline crosses resulting in too many corners.

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I dont know if it was already mentioned here, but I won the game against ManU 3-0 and my keeper got rating 0.1, so it is a bug.

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Anyone tell me what the pros and cons are from this years instalment?

Try the demo. That's the best way to see.

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I'm 7th with Roma (only 6 points off top in Jan) and the media says this is my last chance before i get sacked (against milan), i win that 3-0, brilliant performance, but then my next game is Torino and they say the same thing that it's my last chance.. i won that 3-1 but come on im not doing that badly..

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Maybe another slight bug, i asked for a new contract and talks were held, the expectation was to challenge for title so i said i'd like to discuss the expectations, to maybe bring it down to champions league qualification but my only option was to win the league, and i couldn't go back on it..

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Is the high scoring in lower leagues likely to be sorted before release? I know the latest update is supposed to have sorted this but it clearly hasn't. I do appreciate it isn't probably an easy fix and do appreciate all the work that goes into it

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Is the high scoring in lower leagues likely to be sorted before release? I know the latest update is supposed to have sorted this but it clearly hasn't. I do appreciate it isn't probably an easy fix and do appreciate all the work that goes into it

Are you seeing high scoring games overall or just the games you're involved in?

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Beside the high scoring issue with goal keepers being bad. As the penalty bug fixed, where 99.9% the penalty shooter scores and in FM14 lone strikers were increasingly hard to get to score, even if your striker had great pace, finishing and composure he would go on a goal drought for matches, has this been fixed some what.

Have not been able to play beta or demo, work+school is killing me x_x

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Overall seen various 4-4 draws and a few 5-3. I can't tell you how the goals were conceded in games iv been involved in as I don't watch the match I just watch commentary

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You are too harsh with SI.

bugs exits on all games.

thumbs up to SI for listening and releasing patches....

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Still think the whole 'X keen to discuss personal matters' scenario needs to be toned down a little. Have these players never heard of squad rotation? I guess its fair if they have 'key player' in their squad status. But if it's squad rotation, 10 or so games in to the season, they need to stop hassling me. The irritable little gits.

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I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with 15.0.3 as the Linux version of the game seems to have been neglected.

There is no fullscreen mode, sometimes the game becomes nearly unresponsive and the 2038 bug is still not fixed (although this should probably take more time than a week to fix/test).

Here's hoping for 15.1 :(

Fullscreen works fine for me, and I've never had a crash yet (either on the initial beta release or on the two updates so far). The 2038 thing is not something I'm likely to run into for a while though...

Using Mint/xfce.

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Beside the high scoring issue with goal keepers being bad. As the penalty bug fixed, where 99.9% the penalty shooter scores and in FM14 lone strikers were increasingly hard to get to score, even if your striker had great pace, finishing and composure he would go on a goal drought for matches, has this been fixed some what.

Have not been able to play beta or demo, work+school is killing me x_x

I dunno why you had such issues with strikers in FM14. I had several 50-goals-a-year lone frontmen.

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Defending is still awful and the goalkeepers. Jesus.H...

I'm praying this is sorted for the full release. Playing in the lower-Leagues this is just about the worst state the match engine has ever been in.

Also, Why is it when a side are competent in a formation which explicitly encourages ball retention and short passing do defenders and midfielders still insist on playing long balls?

I miss sliders.

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What version of the patch should the new demo be running? Mine is on 15.1.0. Is this the latest?

Does that mean the demo is running a more upto date version of the match engine than the beta?

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I miss sliders.

Oh god no... the days of endless sliders and designing your own training schedules. The dark days of FM.

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Defending is still awful and the goalkeepers. Jesus.H...

I'm praying this is sorted for the full release. Playing in the lower-Leagues this is just about the worst state the match engine has ever been in.

Also, Why is it when a side are competent in a formation which explicitly encourages ball retention and short passing do defenders and midfielders still insist on playing long balls?

I miss sliders.

Interesting. I'm also playing in lower leagues, and have no complaints regarding goalkeepers and defending. This is the best ME I've ever seen in any version of FM.

Goalkeepers don't get hold of the ball as much as in FM14, that's true, but then again they really shouldn't.

And I hope I never see those sliders again.

Retain possession + short passing + lower tempo works for me, any less ball retention and the amount of long balls goes crazy.

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