Official Football Manager 2015 Pre Release Beta Feedback Thread - Update 15.0.3

[Dagenham_Dave]

Steam did that with FM14 too. Not really sure why.

Does it not only happen if you don't shut it down 'properly'. The times I've encountered is it when it's froze and I've had to use task manager or use the 'not responding' windows prompt to close it.

[Davey Boy]

Anyone else finding it very slow to load while clicking players and staff profiles? i also have to click the backwards button two or three times to go back to the last page i was on after entering said profiles. could it be my computer specs i wonder?

[forameuss]

Does it not only happen if you don't shut it down 'properly'. The times I've encountered is it when it's froze and I've had to use task manager or use the 'not responding' windows prompt to close it.

Could be right. I've never paid enough attention to it to confirm though.

[Bobby_Zamora]

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with 15.0.3 as the Linux version of the game seems to have been neglected.

There is no fullscreen mode, sometimes the game becomes nearly unresponsive and the 2038 bug is still not fixed (although this should probably take more time than a week to fix/test).

Here's hoping for 15.1

[samuelkells]

Is it possible to change my manager attributes in game or am I stuck with these forever?

[Ben Delat]

Anyone else finding it very slow to load while clicking players and staff profiles? i also have to click the backwards button two or three times to go back to the last page i was on after entering said profiles. could it be my computer specs i wonder?

A few of us are having this problem after the game run perfectly in the previous update.

We're just waiting for someone to respond with a potential fix

[Tree24]

Still finding crosses too effective. I can't remember the last goal I conceded that didn't come from a cross/wide delivery.

[Ben Delat]

Still finding crosses too effective. I can't remember the last goal I conceded that didn't come from a cross/wide delivery.

Yep..Either that or every free kick ever

[Ben Delat]

I'm struggling to see what was actually improved with this patch..

AI scores are still high - while it only seems like mine that have gotten lower.

Defense still can't defend crosses.

I seem to be conceding goals to bad back passes

Fullbacks are still defensively ineffectual

Despite options to close down much more, the amount of times you just see an opposing player just run through past you players and have them do nothing is astonishing.

One on One conversion is still gimped.

Bad teams are still OP

The game got prettier..it didn't get better.

Can we stop thinking that shiny graphics = good gameplay

[treble_yell_:-)]

Is there any reason SI couldn't use the "opt into beta" option in Steam to maybe push updates out to those who'd like to test before they roll them out properly?

Would help to avoid a lot of the situations we have seen over the last year or 2 and provide a much larger pool of testers.

Obviously I'm talking about post Friday.

For those not familiar with this in Steam, it's an option if you right click your game and go to options, it allows developers to push updates to those who opt in, but not to everyone else. This allows a larger testing base to test updates before releasing the patches to everyone.

[forameuss]

Is there any reason SI couldn't use the "opt into beta" option in Steam to maybe push updates out to those who's like to test before they roll them out properly?

Would help to avoid a lot of the situations we have seen over the last year or 2 and provide a much larger pool of testers.

Because most of the people that complain and don't "get" the point of the beta, would still opt in, and we'd end up with the same problems.

Plus it's more work and admin for SI for not much benefit.

[Runciter]

Does it not only happen if you don't shut it down 'properly'. The times I've encountered is it when it's froze and I've had to use task manager or use the 'not responding' windows prompt to close it.

The first time that happened, I've used the "Quit and exit game" menu or whatever it's called, but after that, I used the taskmanager to kill it.

I hope that's useful info for SI, but if it's just a rare occurrance, than it doesn't really matter.

[Ben Delat]

Because most of the people that complain and don't "get" the point of the beta, would still opt in, and we'd end up with the same problems.

Plus it's more work and admin for SI for not much benefit.

I'm an MMO vet

Now I know these are entirely different beasts, but I've never seen anyone argue that less testing is better. Usually it's, let more people into your damn beta so we can fix the game for you...

[Mendeth]

I'm an MMO vet

Now I know these are entirely different beasts, but I've never seen anyone argue that less testing is better. Usually it's, let more people into your damn beta so we can fix the game for you...

I'd imagine that depends on how useful the feedback is. Constructive feedback with save-games if necessary: good. Short posts saying that x and y features are rubbish and need fixing immediately: not so good. Some people see the beta as getting the game early, perhaps not realising how many bugs can be fixed in a short period with constructive feedback backed up with evidence.

[matt9t]

Well I've just finished my first season at last! 7th place with Villa. My poor old keeper, Kevin Trapp conceded 75 league goals in 38 apps hahaha! Too many 4-4 draws! All very realistic

[forameuss]

I'm an MMO vet

Now I know these are entirely different beasts, but I've never seen anyone argue that less testing is better. Usually it's, let more people into your damn beta so we can fix the game for you...

Eh? Can you point out where I said less testing was better? I see no problem with the current system, apart from people not understanding what beta means.

[Ben Delat]

Eh? Can you point out where I said less testing was better? I see no problem with the current system, apart from people not understanding what beta means.

Well responding against the post that made an argument for more beta testers is the same as saying, less is better is it not?

Person 1 - Hey more beta testers would be good, because of x and y reasons.

Person 2 - Actually - probably not, because of x and y reasons.

There you go

[jc1]

Does it not only happen if you don't shut it down 'properly'. The times I've encountered is it when it's froze and I've had to use task manager or use the 'not responding' windows prompt to close it.

Happened a lot with FM14, you'd click close game and exit, save game and game would close................10 second later the game would jump back into life and start up again like some weird spirit had taken hold of it, you then had to exit it once more, all very weird and used to annoy the hell out of me.

[themadsheep2001]

I'd imagine that depends on how useful the feedback is. Constructive feedback with save-games if necessary: good. Short posts saying that x and y features are rubbish and need fixing immediately: not so good. Some people see the beta as getting the game early, perhaps not realising how many bugs can be fixed in a short period with constructive feedback backed up with evidence.

Quite. As for getting onto the beta, SI are always looking at those who regularly post well, backing things up with PKMs saves etc. If people are genuinely keen then they should show it. SI will notice, and invite them if appropriate.

[Francis Mooney]

Half way through simulating 5 seasons in order to compare goals averages in real life and football manager. I can safely say at this point goals scored per game are still significantly higher than what we would expect in real life.

Premier League is up by about 0.10 goals per game, Championship 0.30 goals per game, League One 0.20 goals per game (and the only one that's around the 2.75 - 2.80 mark mentioned earlier), League Two 0.25 goals per game, Conference National 0.40 goals per game, Conference North 0.50 (had a season averaging 3.56 goals per game), and Conference South is 0.30 goals per game.

Shall post up my full results when it's ready, but wanted to get this in here now before SI go home for the day!

[matt9t]

mine has done this on 13, 14 and now 15

[treble_yell_:-)]

Eh? Can you point out where I said less testing was better? I see no problem with the current system, apart from people not understanding what beta means.

Lets be honest here, the term Beta is used pretty loosely in respect to FM. I still don't agree with your point, the bugs forum could have a sub forum dedicated to ongoing testing post release. It adds little in the way of admin and can only help the game.

It's been apparent for a while that SI's small group of testers plus simulations are not working.The Beta opt in works for other developers, it's become a staple of the platform so why not utilise it.

If you don't want to help you can just stay in GD telling people everything is fine as it is.

Quite. As for getting onto the beta, SI are always looking at those who regularly post well, backing things up with PKMs saves etc. If people are genuinely keen then they should show it. SI will notice, and invite them if appropriate.

Getting into your beta isn't what I'm suggesting at all.

[Twellman24]

I have a MBP 10.6.8, with 15.2 I had no problem for three seasons, 15.3 I've had two crashed within two weeks of game play and it keeps messing up hours of work :/

[themadsheep2001]

I have a MBP 10.6.8, with 15.2 I had no problem for three seasons, 15.3 I've had two crashed within two weeks of game play and it keeps messing up hours of work :/

Can you open a new bugs thread, with any crash report generated pasted in? they might ask for your system details too.

[Chicha_14]

Was there an update over the weekend?

Just loaded up the game and played my first match and I can no longer see my matchday stadium backgrounds.

[kuraeero]

Just won my first EPL home match with Arsenal 8-0... Ok, to be fair, it was against Crystal Palace and they were shown a red card in the 23rd minute.

Mertesacker rifled one shot in the top corner from 20 yards, that made me laugh

[Twellman24]

Can you open a new bugs thread, with any crash report generated pasted in? they might ask for your system details too.

The second time it happened I just got so pissed off I closed everything and went to sleep--next time I fire it up I'll see what happens and post whatever happens.

[Shake Appeal]

I'm an MMO vet

Now I know these are entirely different beasts, but I've never seen anyone argue that less testing is better. Usually it's, let more people into your damn beta so we can fix the game for you...

The Football Manager beta isn't like betas for just about any other PC game you could name. It doesn't even resemble Steam's reduced-price "Early Access" model. It's effectively a "gamma," a final pass of bug-fixing when the game is far beyond feature-locked and weeks from release. And the opinions of users (read: customers) are demonstrably less important than in other models; qualitative feedback is dismissed by default as somehow useless. In fact, it's more like "betas" in the console space, which are glorified demos. Except you don't usually pay for access to those.

A true open beta would come out earlier and be available to all, for free, for at least three or four weeks, then close so all the feedback (quantitative and qualitative) could be considered. Look at Evolve, which just had its "big alpha" stress test this past weekend for free. Or, just to name one example, Invisible, Inc. from Klei, which is paid Early Access but has scheduled biweekly updates that are hugely responsive to fan feedback. Every significant MMO as you pointed out, gets extensive, deep beta testing where people apply and test the game for free, and the onus of reporting isn't on dropping a game file on an FTP server somewhere and crossing your fingers.

It's a question of semantics, ultimately, but SI should consider calling their beta something else. The label "beta" works fine for those FM fans who play no other games (or for those who are invited to the closed beta, which sounds more like an actual beta), but otherwise the nature and spirit of it is confusing to people who play other games and are used to certain kinds of priorities (and two-way interactions) from developers, especially when they've already paid money.

[forameuss]

Well responding against the post that made an argument for more beta testers is the same as saying, less is better is it not?

Person 1 - Hey more beta testers would be good, because of x and y reasons.

Person 2 - Actually - probably not, because of x and y reasons.

There you go

Except, what he was proposing was that beta access was opt in instead of open to everyone as it is now. Opt-in numbers < everyone. Swing and a miss.

Lets be honest here, the term Beta is used pretty loosely in respect to FM. I still don't agree with your point, the bugs forum could have a sub forum dedicated to ongoing testing post release. It adds little in the way of admin and can only help the game.

It's been apparent for a while that SI's small group of testers plus simulations are not working.The Beta opt in works for other developers, it's become a staple of the platform so why not utilise it.

If you don't want to help you can just stay in GD telling people everything is fine as it is.

Shows a big misunderstanding of the testing process. In your eyes, their tests will never "work". But that's because they can't scale. They can only test on the setups they have, and while they'll try and make it representative, there is absolutely no chance of them being able to test absolutely every eventuality. Hence why they rely on the community. Unfortunately, most of the community won't bother to report their problems. Most will never visit here, so won't get the chance to report; some will come here, but still not report; some will just complain and not officially report; and then the minority will actually go out and give good, detailed bug reports that actually achieve what SI were trying to do in the first place.

Plus they already kind of have a beta opt-in - buying the game. Having an actual opt-in beta earlier in the process similar to other developers would just be treated by a lot of people as a chance to get the game early, just like it is now, and make no difference to the quality of any testing.

In an ideal world, SI could call on thousands of trusted beta testers who could go into the game a couple of months before release and test the hell out of the game on their vastly different setups, leaving it free to be released in a much more stable state. I wouldn't wan to hazard a guess on the numbers of these people SI can count on currently, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be in the thousands.

It's a question of semantics, ultimately, but SI should consider calling their beta something else. The label "beta" works fine for those FM fans who play no other games (or for those who are invited to the closed beta, which sounds more like an actual beta), but otherwise the nature and spirit of it is confusing to people who play other games and are used to certain kinds of priorities (and two-way interactions) from developers, especially when they've already paid money.

It's an interesting point. It often seems stuck in the half-way house - thousands and thousands won't understand what a beta means anyway, and see it as an early release which should work perfectly, and those on the other end of the scale would probably expect it to be released a lot earlier to get time to fix the beta bugs. Not sure what they could name it to convey the early access part, but still stress that it's not completely feature-locked, and can't be relied upon to be completely stable.

[Sky]

I'd imagine that depends on how useful the feedback is. Constructive feedback with save-games if necessary: good. Short posts saying that x and y features are rubbish and need fixing immediately: not so good.

And to add to that: paying customers are more likely to make that extra effort to try and eliminate bugs to improve the product that they bought. Less likely if they are pirates or simply acquired the beta for free.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

How are manager sackings for everyone else?

I'm in December and have had 7 sackings in the Premier League. Bit trigger happy these chairmen, Redknapp, Poyet, Pellegrini, Lambert, Pardew, Monk, Irvine and finally number 8 by mutual consent 'caretaker' Roy Keane.

All for poor league positions; All are in the relegation zone bar City who are in the top 5 (premature sacking if I ever saw one) and Toon who are 13th (which, is about right...)

I was hoping to see them stick with their managers, about the only justifiable one was Monk and Irvine to be honest.

Also, great laughs were had when City re-hired Mancini - shouldn't they dislike each other. >_>

[Davey Boy]

I have most of my scouts scouting the under 18's & 19's in most part of the world but where can i see which scout is scouting where and if i left any countries 19's out

It does not show the country of the under 18's & 19's their scouting? or at least not that i can see. :confused:

[Fritz13]

How are manager sackings for everyone else?

I'm in December and have had 7 sackings in the Premier League. Bit trigger happy these chairmen, Redknapp, Poyet, Pellegrini, Lambert, Pardew, Monk, Irvine and finally number 8 by mutual consent 'caretaker' Roy Keane.

All for poor league positions; All are in the relegation zone bar City who are in the top 5 (premature sacking if I ever saw one) and Toon who are 13th (which, is about right...)

I was hoping to see them stick with their managers, about the only justifiable one was Monk and Irvine to be honest.

Also, great laughs were had when City re-hired Mancini - shouldn't they dislike each other. >_>

When a manager gets the sack does it ever vary as to whether the entire backroom staff gets the boot as well?

[Shake Appeal]

It's an interesting point. It often seems stuck in the half-way house - thousands and thousands won't understand what a beta means anyway, and see it as an early release which should work perfectly, and those on the other end of the scale would probably expect it to be released a lot earlier to get time to fix the beta bugs. Not sure what they could name it to convey the early access part, but still stress that it's not completely feature-locked, and can't be relied upon to be completely stable.

I understand the problem with having many, many people come in and complain about an unfinished game, but they have been directly marketed to by SI/SEGA saying "preorder now to get the game earlier," so I can sort of understand the confusion! The rest of us appreciate that it's unfinished, but are baffled that if it is so very unfinished, how is the ship going to get righted in two weeks? And by the time we get to look at the state the game is in (and it's actually in good shape this year, ME aside), our interaction can only be "upload a game file to prove there's a 'bug,' (because there can be no problems that are not bugs) otherwise you're wasting our time." If the process started earlier and wasn't predicated on a sale, more feedback could be considered and counted.

A lot of it is exacerbated by the yearly cycle of FM games, but that's never going to change for monetary reasons, which I also completely understand.

[forameuss]

I understand the problem with having many, many people come in and complain about an unfinished game, but they have been directly marketed to by SI/SEGA saying "preorder now to get the game earlier," so I can sort of understand the confusion! The rest of us appreciate that it's unfinished, but are baffled that if it is so very unfinished, how is the ship going to get righted in two weeks? And by the time we get to look at the state the game is in (and it's actually in good shape this year, ME aside), our interaction can only be "upload a game file to prove there's a 'bug,' (because there can be no problems that are not bugs) otherwise you're wasting our time." If the process started earlier and wasn't predicated on a sale, more feedback could be considered and counted.

A lot of it is exacerbated by the yearly cycle of FM games, but that's never going to change for monetary reasons, which I also completely understand.

Hard to argue with anything you say. The only bit I'd maybe quibble with would be the bolded. I don't think they'd ever be able to offer a free open beta and see the massive benefits they should. It's a good idea on paper, and should work, but too many would just see it as early access and not report anything, or - perhaps worse - just give empty reports/complaints.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't in the end.

[Ben Delat]

I understand the problem with having many, many people come in and complain about an unfinished game, but they have been directly marketed to by SI/SEGA saying "preorder now to get the game earlier," so I can sort of understand the confusion! The rest of us appreciate that it's unfinished, but are baffled that if it is so very unfinished, how is the ship going to get righted in two weeks? And by the time we get to look at the state the game is in (and it's actually in good shape this year, ME aside), our interaction can only be "upload a game file to prove there's a 'bug,' (because there can be no problems that are not bugs) otherwise you're wasting our time." If the process started earlier and wasn't predicated on a sale, more feedback could be considered and counted.

A lot of it is exacerbated by the yearly cycle of FM games, but that's never going to change for monetary reasons, which I also completely understand.

This, and more..

It truly baffles me that there is a feedback thread and yet we're constantly told, you have to upload some data otherwise this feedback thread is just nonsense.

If enough people complain about the same issues, surely there is an issue that needs to be looked at. There isn't really anything stopping SI reading through this thread and saying hey, all these people are having this problem, let's take a look at it.

A pet peeve of mine is, all the issues that were wrong with FM14, are wrong with this game too. There current system clearly isn't working. And I too, wonder, how on earth 2 weeks is enough to iron out all the issues with this game, when they couldn't get it right during the entire life cycle of FM14.

It greatly bothers me, that I buy a game on release that is clearly unfinished. Have to wait until feb or some time to get the "final" release of the game, by which point I'm burnt out dealing with all the current issues. To realize, even the feb update isn't really fixed, and we start the whole vicious cycle again in the next iteration of FM. Which generally leaves, us, the customer, without ever having a finished product.

I don't see how more testers, and more obt's can be of anything else other than beneficial. It's not hard to put a disclaimer saying, dude it's beta, there are issues, this is a testing period, please find issues for us to fix.

The MMO community doesn't get confused with the terms of Early Access vs Beta. - Why should this playerbase be any different. People aren't stupid, and if you fear they are, use a disclaimer, make it absolutely clear what this beta means.

We might end up getting something resembling a completed game on launch

[jc1]

I understand the problem with having many, many people come in and complain about an unfinished game, but they have been directly marketed to by SI/SEGA saying "preorder now to get the game earlier," so I can sort of understand the confusion! The rest of us appreciate that it's unfinished, but are baffled that if it is so very unfinished, how is the ship going to get righted in two weeks? And by the time we get to look at the state the game is in (and it's actually in good shape this year, ME aside), our interaction can only be "upload a game file to prove there's a 'bug,' (because there can be no problems that are not bugs) otherwise you're wasting our time." If the process started earlier and wasn't predicated on a sale, more feedback could be considered and counted.

A lot of it is exacerbated by the yearly cycle of FM games, but that's never going to change for monetary reasons, which I also completely understand.

It took till after the January window to finally get all the bugs out of FM14, nearly 3 months of bugs, updates, more bugs, more updates etc

You just wonder if at times SI have gone too deep with the game and have missed the point making it overly hard and complicated to play, hence taking away the fun of the game.

I reported 2 bugs in the conversation forum, I uploaded the screenshots necessary and was asked to upload the game itself, why?? I deleted the game and had started a new one as I'm playing around with the beta till it finally goes live. Surely a screenshot of my MIDFIELDER telling me his passing was not important because he was a DEFENDER, is enough for them to see it's wrong.......or even a screenshot of a player berating me in public for changing captain, then in his info page it says he's DElIGHTED at the appointment of the NEW CAPTAIN but they wanted an uploaded game??? was a screenshot not enough to see a bug.

[dazenners]

So I'm just at the beginning of my second season with Man Utd.

During the summer transfer window I sold Nick Powell and the second I did, Rooney and the rest of the squad kicked off that he had been sold. I eased their fears by saying I would strengthen the squad and despite signing Boruc, Fierro, Saul (who can play DC/DMC/CM/CAM) and a few youngsters they still werent happy.

All throughout the transfer window 95% of the squad still had 'Slt' over this issue and with the window just closed Rooney kicked off again saying promises hadnt been kept and I had to have a meeting witht he board to ask for time to turn morale around.

Now dont get me wrong I can understand this had I sold a major player but this was Nick Powell. Nick Powell who isnt rated very highly, was nowhere near the getting into the first team and had no chance of doing so anyway.

Crazy.

[HUNT3R]

This, and more..

It truly baffles me that there is a feedback thread and yet we're constantly told, you have to upload some data otherwise this feedback thread is just nonsense.

If enough people complain about the same issues, surely there is an issue that needs to be looked at. There isn't really anything stopping SI reading through this thread and saying hey, all these people are having this problem, let's take a look at it.

A pet peeve of mine is, all the issues that were wrong with FM14, are wrong with this game too. There current system clearly isn't working. And I too, wonder, how on earth 2 weeks is enough to iron out all the issues with this game, when they couldn't get it right during the entire life cycle of FM14.

It greatly bothers me, that I buy a game on release that is clearly unfinished. Have to wait until feb or some time to get the "final" release of the game, by which point I'm burnt out dealing with all the current issues. To realize, even the feb update isn't really fixed, and we start the whole vicious cycle again in the next iteration of FM. Which generally leaves, us, the customer, without ever having a finished product.

I don't see how more testers, and more obt's can be of anything else other than beneficial. It's not hard to put a disclaimer saying, dude it's beta, there are issues, this is a testing period, please find issues for us to fix.

The MMO community doesn't get confused with the terms of Early Access vs Beta. - Why should this playerbase be any different. People aren't stupid, and if you fear they are, use a disclaimer, make it absolutely clear what this beta means.

We might end up getting something resembling a completed game on launch

They are taking a look at it anyway. Why do you think they aren't?

Examples in the form of save games and/or PKMs help SI fix issues. They might have a few examples already, having looked at it themselves, but more helps to fix an issue completely. They listen to feedback as well. They changed the tutoring issue, for instance, after listening to the feedback here. Other feedback will be taken on board and might be implemented in the next major update. Or in FM16. It all matters.

[forameuss]

I reported 2 bugs in the conversation forum, I uploaded the screenshots necessary and was asked to upload the game itself, why??

Because a screenshot is just a screenshot, and the save game can give them a specific case to debug into to actually fix the thing.

[Shake Appeal]

People aren't stupid, and if you fear they are, use a disclaimer, make it absolutely clear what this beta means.

To be fair, unless I hallucinated it, the beta version does pop up with a disclaimer when you first launch it. But they could probably do more to explain what they're looking for — and what they're not looking for — two weeks from release.

[HUNT3R]

It took till after the January window to finally get all the bugs out of FM14, nearly 3 months of bugs, updates, more bugs, more updates etc

You just wonder if at times SI have gone too deep with the game and have missed the point making it overly hard and complicated to play, hence taking away the fun of the game.

I reported 2 bugs in the conversation forum, I uploaded the screenshots necessary and was asked to upload the game itself, why?? I deleted the game and had started a new one as I'm playing around with the beta till it finally goes live. Surely a screenshot of my MIDFIELDER telling me his passing was not important because he was a DEFENDER, is enough for them to see it's wrong.......or even a screenshot of a player berating me in public for changing captain, then in his info page it says he's DElIGHTED at the appointment of the NEW CAPTAIN but they wanted an uploaded game??? was a screenshot not enough to see a bug.

Seeing a bug isn't the same as fixing it.

Your save game would have provided SI with the exact situation where the bug occurs. It would have allowed them to look inside and fix whatever was causing it. A screenshot is nice to look at and it makes people aware of the problem, but it doesn't come close to having the actual example.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

When a manager gets the sack does it ever vary as to whether the entire backroom staff gets the boot as well?

I've not seen mention of anyone leaving with the mangers yet.

[Nikopol]

Lower league football (second portoguese division) still unplayable. Goalkeeper and defense are horrible, worse than before.

[forameuss]

To be fair, unless I hallucinated it, the beta version does pop up with a disclaimer when you first launch it. But they could probably do more to explain what they're looking for — and what they're not looking for — two weeks from release.

There's a string that appears on every single screen at the bottom left. It's not the most visible, or attention-grabbing, but it's there.

[dsch]

I'd imagine that depends on how useful the feedback is. Constructive feedback with save-games if necessary: good. Short posts saying that x and y features are rubbish and need fixing immediately: not so good. Some people see the beta as getting the game early, perhaps not realising how many bugs can be fixed in a short period with constructive feedback backed up with evidence.

Not really. It tells you quantitatively that many people are having trouble with it and maybe it should be high priority.

Anyway, the biggest reason people are posting short posts like that are because they can't see if the point has been made. No one is going to wade through this megathread, and no one imagines more than a couple of people will see their post, so they naturally feel the need to make the point as forcefully as possible. If there were a subforum for suggestions and feedback with individual threads, people would be able to see and discuss each particular problem and the developer could mark each point as read and under consideration---a lot like the bugs subforum here. Add some kind of poll feature for "What do you want to see changed/fixed the most?" and you'd see most of the non-constructive feedback disappear. Cf. a developer like Amplitude Studios, who were built on the back of community feedback.

People aren't disagreeable jerks for no reason; the structure and effectiveness of communication makes all the difference.

[finchm03]

The Good:

- Thank you for toning down the skin colours, my eyes have stopped bleeding, and my epileptic sister is recovering well.

- Impressed that I have not encountered a crash yet considering fm14 still crashes on me all the time

The Bad:

- Although I initially liked the idea of the attribute range, I agree with others that it looks messy and is really difficult to see at a glance what you are looking at. I feel like a better way of conveying the need for more scouting would just be to hide certain attributes all together. mental attributes for example would be more difficult to scout realistically and so would require more scouting to obtain these.

[jc1]

Because a screenshot is just a screenshot, and the save game can give them a specific case to debug into to actually fix the thing.

It was a conversation and had nothing to do with the game play, I told a midfielder he was pants and he told me he was a defender??

Another moans to the press I changed captains, yet is delighted withe new captain appointment in his info.

Anyway as i said i deleted the save and started again.

[Schotsmannetje]

Wow my fullbacks really don't defend at all since the update. Have to start tweaking my tactics. Every attack of the opponent results into a cross from the wing. Seems different from before the update.

[Smurf]

This, and more..

It truly baffles me that there is a feedback thread and yet we're constantly told, you have to upload some data otherwise this feedback thread is just nonsense.

If enough people complain about the same issues, surely there is an issue that needs to be looked at. There isn't really anything stopping SI reading through this thread and saying hey, all these people are having this problem, let's take a look at it.

A pet peeve of mine is, all the issues that were wrong with FM14, are wrong with this game too. There current system clearly isn't working. And I too, wonder, how on earth 2 weeks is enough to iron out all the issues with this game, when they couldn't get it right during the entire life cycle of FM14.

It greatly bothers me, that I buy a game on release that is clearly unfinished. Have to wait until feb or some time to get the "final" release of the game, by which point I'm burnt out dealing with all the current issues. To realize, even the feb update isn't really fixed, and we start the whole vicious cycle again in the next iteration of FM. Which generally leaves, us, the customer, without ever having a finished product.

I don't see how more testers, and more obt's can be of anything else other than beneficial. It's not hard to put a disclaimer saying, dude it's beta, there are issues, this is a testing period, please find issues for us to fix.

The MMO community doesn't get confused with the terms of Early Access vs Beta. - Why should this playerbase be any different. People aren't stupid, and if you fear they are, use a disclaimer, make it absolutely clear what this beta means.

We might end up getting something resembling a completed game on launch

What you don't seem to understand is while they are fixing all the issues in FM14 they were working on FM15.

And likely so right now, even though they are beta testing FM15 - there are definitely a team of people working on FM16 right now.

While the rest of the team work on fixing what's wrong with FM15, and as you rightly point out the game is fully patched by February/March with no more patches.

Do you want them to start Beta Testing FM16 in February or March? When do you think it will be ready for beta testing?

You do realise there are tests before the Beta, the clue is in the title, Beta being the 2nd letter of the Greek Alphabet, before they release a Beta a Alpha is created, and before that a "pre-alpha". But only Betas are released to the public, and it's at this point a lot of issues are pointed out, likely they are aware of 99% of what's going wrong.

This is why a Beta gets released 2 weeks for the launch, because they've already gone through 2 rounds of testing, and fixing a lot of issues that they already knew existed, that's how they get them fixed before the release. Granted the Beta testing gives them feedback and releasing the patches to fix the beta appeases the users. Then the game is released.

If they don't know what's wrong with someones game how can they fix it? That's why they ask for PKMs and saved files, so they can test the issues themselves.

Albeit, I reckon that 99% of the issues brought up are already being handled by the staff.

But the point of this thread is to give feedback about the game - bugs are a different story. So you are asked to Beta test game, provide feedback on what is good and bad about it.

Then if you find a bug or what you think to be a bug then upload that file so they can take a look - but most likely they already are aware of it. But the more data they can get their hands on the better.