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The "BS" factor when the system scores ASAP after U score or last minute of any half.

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Greetings,

One thing i have not liked in this version is the BS factor of the system coming back and scoring in the last minute of any half or straight after you have scored. I've read many tactical posts about counter attacking this so often. I've read all training and tactical guides. I don't know what it is with SI, every version that comes through now has this BS factor in it. I don't mind when it does happen like in real life %'s, but to see it happen in many games over and over during your schedule is some what unrealistic and frustrating.

I have played many different leagues, changed many tactics even going defensive/rigid, lower tempo etc etc. It's really frustrating me. I view my games in extended key highlights. Am i viewing the game incorrectly ? do i need to be watching it in full mode to counter this BS mode ? I'm just fed up with it, it's happened to me in my current league 5 times in a row. I'd like to hear how experts handle this situation in fm14. I bet i'm going to hear somethign that isn't new to me anyways.

regards

Cheesed off fm14 fan (worst version)

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A lot of it is in the mind, it doesn't happen half as often as you think it does.

You remember the times it does but forget the hundreds of times it doesn't.

Scoring towards the end of a match is about being able to read the play and make the right decisions. Sometimes this is going more defensive, others its about controlling possession or pumping the ball away out of your half asap.

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You should alter your mentality for a few minutes as they are going to be riled and attempt to even the score. It's amazing how quickly a Goal will wake someone up or or cost the scoring team who have a lapse in concentration. If it happens regularly then you need to look at you Training schedules to prevent complacency.

It can work both ways and you can ''Manage'' a reaction from your team.

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When I still played football, our coach used to tell us to just contain for a minute or two after we'd score a goal. Makes it more difficult for the opponent to bounce back. Just kill the game for a couple of minutes after every goal you score. Make some harsh fouls, disrupt play, get some tempo out of the game after you score. Once the opponent is settled a little, then you can think about attacking again. It's details like this that decide big games.

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How often does it happen in real life also. The saying 'You are at your most vulnerable when you have just scored' Exists because of this

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It's just confirmation bias. Like when you talk about someone, and they phone at that exact moment, 'oooh spooky', but you forget the scores of times you've talked about them and they haven't called.

Unless you do some actual statistical analysis, there is no issue to discuss.

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How often does it happen in real life also. The saying 'You are at your most vulnerable when you have just scored' Exists because of this

It's another stupid commentator quote that people who are clueless in football believe. Like "it only takes a second to score a goal" or "2-0 is a dangerous lead". Or "It's difficult to play against ten men". The latter is the worst! If that was the case I'd always field ten men in real life games!

I can imagine how "vulnerable" Arbroath's manager felt when the 36th goal of the game went in. ;)

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How often does this actually happen to you? Please show us some actual proof of this, perhaps upload a save so we can see all your past fixtures.

This very rarely happens to me so it can't be the game itself or it would happen to everyone; it must be something you are doing.

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Shamelessly lifted from The Knowledge on the Guardian in regards to goals in the last minutes of a half: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/30/the-knowledge-premier-league-minutes-goals

Anyway, thanks to our friends at Opta, we can tell you that in fact the 60th minute is only the 19th most prolific in the Premier League era, having witnessed 261 goals (that's an average of 12 per season, by our reckoning). The stats are skewed somewhat by the fact that the 90th and 45th minutes include all added time, but it is then that most goals are scored – a considerable 1,069, or about 51 per season, coming in the 90th minute or later. There have been 602 goals (almost 29 per season) in the 45th minute or first-half stoppage time.Late goals are a clear trend in the Premier League: of the final 10 minutes of a game, only the 84th and the 86th sit outside the Top 15 Most Prolific Minutes, pop pickers. A total of 329 goals have been scored in the 89th minute, 290 in the 80th, 284 in the 85th, 275 in the 87th, 273 in the 88th, 269 in the 81st, 268 in the 83rd, and 264 in the 82nd. That means that of the 21,871 goals recorded in the spreadsheet Opta have kindly furnished us with, 3,321 – or 15% – have been scored after the 79th minute. By contrast 1,831 (8%) have been scored in the opening 10 minutes of matches, with the opening minute featuring only 103 goals.

Knowledge-table-001.jpg

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"2-0 is a dangerous lead"

According to statistics, the "2-0" goal is the most valuable of all goals. According to statistics, the 2-0-lead is the almost biggest garanty for a win. Of course 3-0 even more so, but the difference between a 1-0 and a 2-0 is infinite times more valuable than the difference between a 2-0 and a 3-0, if that makes sense.

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It's another stupid commentator quote that people who are clueless in football believe. Like "it only takes a second to score a goal" or "2-0 is a dangerous lead". Or "It's difficult to play against ten men". The latter is the worst! If that was the case I'd always field ten men in real life games!

I can imagine how "vulnerable" Arbroath's manager felt when the 36th goal of the game went in. ;)

I agree with the others, But the conceding after you score one i can see why a tactical tweak is needed after scoring because that does happen

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Quite possibly the single most annoying thing I've had happen on FM is when my team scores, I pause the match during the replay to make some defensive tactical changes and then promptly concede before the changes have even taken place. Can't say that I've had it happen unrealistically often or anything, though.

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I get things like that a lot. Like applying a substitution for a player that plays badly, only to find out that he scores right when you click okay and not being able to undo the substitution haha.

But when it comes to changing tacticsin-game, I always wonder how much of that is actually possible IRL? I think most teams discuss scenarios pre-game (like what to do when they are behind by one goal ten minutes before full-time) and change a couple of things at half-time, but I'm not too sure how much a manager can actually change during the game. I don't think a lot of instructions get across very well during the game. No wonder a lot of managers seem rather stressed and helpless while standing on the sideline.

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Neil, does SI keep track of this information for other leagues? Or are all leagues goal scoring "times" derived from the PL?

We compile and use as much evidence as we can get our hands on to have a 'guideline' for how the match engine should work across as many leagues as we can. However it's incredibly difficult to code all of this - you wouldn't code say a certain minute MUST have more goals, but you would code tired players making more mistakes and losing teams going for it near the end of matches for example.

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It happens more often than rare that teams come back and equalize straight away, however playing as Chelsea at home for example meeting Nottingham Forest it goes without saying that it should happen more rare. This is ultimately an issue about which team you manage, which mentality you lay on your players after scoring etc etc. A tip is to "feel the game" see if the opponent has gotten shots at goal on your defensive side or not and thereafter make a decision in which mentality you are going to continue the game.

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I think it would be great if you could give timed orders. Maybe we are getting this with the new dug out shouts. Like mentioned above

- break down play for 2 minutes

- clear immediately

- all players defend

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ok the stats look good i wont deny that. My issue is at the moment, when you score a goal the opposition scores straight away without giving you a chance to change your tactics. Is there anyway to stop this from happening in game. I have found that the opposition goes on a frenzy in the last minutes of the first half and second half especially if they are loosing. When scoring a goal and watching it in extended highlights it pains me to see my team straight away concede a goal not having a chance to modify my tactics. This is the most frustrating area I am having trouble with "not having a chance to counter attack the oppositions tactics after conceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeding a goal in extended highlights".

Yes some people will turn around and tell me watch the game in full time so you can counter that but I don't have that time to chew on cause of real life dramas. So how do you guys combat it ?

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Just pause the game when you score. That will give you the time to make the changes and it will be implemented after the goal replay when the players are walking back to kick-off again.

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Knowledge-table-001.jpg

That's a very misleading image. All the periods shown are ten minutes long except the last one which is longer. It should have a row for 81-90, then another row for 91+, stating the average amount of time that row covers. Either that or show goals scored per minute, taking into account how big each period actually is.

I suspect the 41-50 period is also artificially high as extra time before half time is always counted as 45.

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I think it's like everything. You don't really notice it unless it doesn't work in your favour. Sail through the traffic lights every morning on your way to work / school / wherever. But the one morning they're on red it's "every darn day!"

Same with games I think. We have a tendency just to go "if that didn't happen" and it bugs you. You don't even bother to register it when it doesn't happen.

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I was looking through the forum yesterday, and came across this post. A little late I decided to play my long neglected save and was winning 1-0 at home, when my opponents scored in the 90th minute to get a draw. And this was in my first match!

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To be fair though there's more to think about than just making a tactical change after you've scored. This will not stop immediate opposition goals, or goals just before HT / Injury time. You have to look at the last part of the game in contex (did you score against run of play, are you controlling and dominating the game).

If you make a change, and it still happens, you'll start to question whether it happened becauseyou made the change, from there your beat!

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Just to point out something here regards the conceding straight after you score

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Everton goal 20 LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28917059 - Arsenal goal 20. LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Man U goal 13,16 LCFC goal 17 - MUFC goal 57 LCFC goals 62,64

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29389664 - Burnley goal 39 LCFC goal 40

But its all BS and never happens right? And thats just from one team after 7 games

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Just to point out something here regards the conceding straight after you score

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Everton goal 20 LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28917059 - Arsenal goal 20. LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Man U goal 13,16 LCFC goal 17 - MUFC goal 57 LCFC goals 62,64

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29389664 - Burnley goal 39 LCFC goal 40

But its all BS and never happens right? And thats just from one team after 7 games

This. The whole 'waah the game is against me' really annoys me. Sometimes, in fact quite often, this s*** happens. I love the idea that some people think setting their tactic to Contain will kill all of the opposition's desire to score.

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Quite annoying when the opponents scor ein injury time/red time (final 5 minutes of either half). Or they score with their only shot on goal LOL!

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Just to point out something here regards the conceding straight after you score

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Everton goal 20 LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28917059 - Arsenal goal 20. LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Man U goal 13,16 LCFC goal 17 - MUFC goal 57 LCFC goals 62,64

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29389664 - Burnley goal 39 LCFC goal 40

But its all BS and never happens right? And thats just from one team after 7 games

Happened again in the Man City Spurs game yesterday.

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The most annoying one for me is when you score, and then the next thing you see is them having been awarded a free-kick (without seeing the foul) right on the edge of your box. You just know it's going in...

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That's a very misleading image. All the periods shown are ten minutes long except the last one which is longer. It should have a row for 81-90, then another row for 91+, stating the average amount of time that row covers. Either that or show goals scored per minute, taking into account how big each period actually is.

I suspect the 41-50 period is also artificially high as extra time before half time is always counted as 45.

As said in the text which accompanied the image:

The stats are skewed somewhat by the fact that the 90th and 45th minutes include all added time, but it is then that most goals are scored – a considerable 1,069, or about 51 per season, coming in the 90th minute or later

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Just to point out something here regards the conceding straight after you score

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Everton goal 20 LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28917059 - Arsenal goal 20. LCFC goal 22

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28718336 - Man U goal 13,16 LCFC goal 17 - MUFC goal 57 LCFC goals 62,64

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29389664 - Burnley goal 39 LCFC goal 40

But its all BS and never happens right? And thats just from one team after 7 games

Happened in the Man City vs Spurs game, QPR vs Liverpool game and Napoli Inter which has literally just finished and lets not forget Arsenal vs Liverpool 1-1 with the two pens in injury time, as frustrating as it is it happens quite often and you've just got to accept it

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According to statistics, the "2-0" goal is the most valuable of all goals. According to statistics, the 2-0-lead is the almost biggest garanty for a win. Of course 3-0 even more so, but the difference between a 1-0 and a 2-0 is infinite times more valuable than the difference between a 2-0 and a 3-0, if that makes sense.

While you are right, the most important goal of all is of course the 1-0. The difference between 0-0 and 1-0 is far, far greater than between 1-0 and 2-0.

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While you are right, the most important goal of all is of course the 1-0. The difference between 0-0 and 1-0 is far, far greater than between 1-0 and 2-0.

I would argue the 3-0 is the most important tbh :p

First goal is important and can set a trend for a match but its not a killing blow, the opposition feel they can still take something from the game.

2-0 gives you a cushion but the opposition still tend to think they have a chance of at least a point, if we can get one goal we can get two mentality.

3-0 is the killer blow and most of the time signals the end of any realistic prospect of taking something from the match by the losing team.

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While you are right, the most important goal of all is of course the 1-0. The difference between 0-0 and 1-0 is far, far greater than between 1-0 and 2-0.

Actually it is not, not by a long shot. Statistically seen of course. 1-0 is no guarantee of a win at all. 2-0 is the biggest step from uncertain of a win to certain of a win of all goals that exists in the game. I would even argue that from a mental viewpoint the same thing applies. I've seen plenty of games in which the opponent actually starts playing better after the 1-0 is scored. For a lot of teams it serves as a wake-up call, conceding the 1-0. Especially complacent top clubs when they play against smaller teams.

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Just this weekend

QPR vs Liverpool 2-3

Arsenal vs Hull 2-2

Millwall vs Wolves 3-3

last minute goals

The match engine is BS lol

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Daley Blind, a defensive midfielder scoring from 20 yards in the 87th minute..........

Pffft Jagielka says hi :D

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it's weird how this thread popped up last week, and then multiple games at the weekend (in just the premier division mind) prove that it happens irl

is the premier league scripted?

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