Why doesn't FM look like FIFA?

[forameuss]

Did anyone read what I wrote? Two identical Football Managers, one with 2D match graphics, the other one with an awesome 3D match graphics engine? That being the only difference between the two?

Answered that above. Maybe you just glossed over it given it disagreed with you.

And of course proper competition would force them into having a faster pace and making the game even better, so that people buy that, instead of something else. Just imagine if tomorrow a new game appeared that beat Football Manager in every aspect? Think they's still be doing things "at their own pace"?

...or, said competition forces them into a much more aggressive schedule. Now this completely imaginary competitor is forced into just as aggressive a schedule as FM is. Both games suffer, as they have to cater to each other. Both are released with record number of bugs. But hey, SI had competition, that's the main thing.

Why exactly is it so important for them to have competition? They have seen off game after game because they are the best at what they do. They've said before that a competitor would be at least a decade away from catching up given the database and ME. In that ten years, SI will have moved forward once again. Competition will never appear, because a company would be pretty much suicidal to attempt it unless they were planning on running the studio at a considerable loss for at least a decade.

[Qwqwqw]

You can, and you can also have a top down view with dots that has no effect on other view modes. I get it if you want better 3D but why keep bringing 2D into this discussion?

The match engine is a code that was originally designed to be viewed in 2D. It has had many parts of it revamped but it's still the same base. Removing 2D now would have absolutely zero benefits to anyone. They may some day remove 2D classic when it's an absolute certainty that there isn't any demand for it (i.e people with hardware that can't run 3D) but 2D will still be one of the view angles in 3D simply because people still want it.

I was being sarcastic with that comment, about the top-down view in 3D.

For the millionth time: There is a reason why they have no proper competition. Because they make a very sound product that is quite simply lightyears ahead of the competition. As they have proven many times in the past.

Or it's a small market that no other company cares about?

Your question is literally "Would you prefer nicer graphics?" Yes, I'd like them.

Are they central to the game in any way, shape or form, to require development move any quicker than it currently is? No. Not in the slightest.

They are not central, but if someone made a game that is equal to FM in every aspect and also had a good 3D match representation... See, SI would be in trouble.

[Qwqwqw]

Competition drives innovation and usually lowers the price, it's a win situation for us, the consumer. I don't understand why you people seem to have this personal relationship to SI and EA, where you love SI and seem to hate EA?

[jumbohotdog]

Answered that above. Maybe you just glossed over it given it disagreed with you.

...or, said competition forces them into a much more aggressive schedule. Now this completely imaginary competitor is forced into just as aggressive a schedule as FM is. Both games suffer, as they have to cater to each other. Both are released with record number of bugs. But hey, SI had competition, that's the main thing.

Why exactly is it so important for them to have competition? They have seen off game after game because they are the best at what they do. They've said before that a competitor would be at least a decade away from catching up given the database and ME. In that ten years, SI will have moved forward once again. Competition will never appear, because a company would be pretty much suicidal to attempt it unless they were planning on running the studio at a considerable loss for at least a decade.

Read this please

[Schotsmannetje]

I was being sarcastic with that comment, about the top-down view in 3D.

Or it's a small market that no other company cares about?

They are not central, but if someone made a game that is equal to FM in every aspect and also had a good 3D match representation... See, SI would be in trouble.

For the millionth time: There is a reason why they have no proper competition. Because they make a very sound product that is quite simply lightyears ahead of the competition. As they have proven many times in the past. You make it sound like nobody has ever tried to compete. That's complete bullfaeces.

[Qwqwqw]

I am not. I am saying SI having competition would benefit us, the consumers

[Schotsmannetje]

And it's not a small market. FM is one of the best selling games on the pc and not just in the UK.

[Qwqwqw]

Read this please

Football Manager is already in an aggressive schedule, probably forced by the publisher. How else do you explain all the patches after the initial release and the literally hundreds of bugs that they fix?

[Äktsjon Männ]

Where would that awesome competition come from complete with a shiny FIFA-like 3D engine as well as being in the same stratosphere as FM gameplay wise? If it's that easy to make why do you think no one bothers to try and create one?

The database alone is enough to ensure no one will even think about trying to compete with FM. There are other niches of the management genre that someone might want to explore but a direct competition to SI will never happen.

[Cavenagh]

They are not central, but if someone made a game that is equal to FM in every aspect and also had a good 3D match representation... See, SI would be in trouble.

You might as well claim that if a company made a game that came with a clone of Mark le Tissier, or was packaged in a kebab van, or one where they came round your house and installed a terrace, that SI would be in trouble. Because that's just as likely as a game appearing that is equal to FM in every aspect and had good 3D.

2D is staying because people use it, it's a useful tactical tool, some people actually like it better than 3D but most importantly because SI don't want to get rid of it as it's not sucking up resources or bankrupting them.

[Schotsmannetje]

I am not. I am saying SI having competition would benefit us, the consumers

Jesus you really don't get it do you? The competition is there and always has been. They have just never been able to create an equal product. Simple as that. I'm really through with this discussion.

[HUNT3R]

I am not. I am saying SI having competition would benefit us, the consumers

It won't affect SI, FM or us in any way.

[Cavenagh]

Football Manager is already in an aggressive schedule, probably forced by the publisher. How else do you explain all the patches after the initial release and the literally hundreds of bugs that they fix?

It's a computer game.

Computer games have always needed patches and bug fixes.

Even something like Solitaire and Minesweeper have needed bug fixes.

Not many games have gotten patches and bug fixes.

Nowadays more get them, thanks to services like Steam and the internet in general.

Even games that had years of development and millions invested need patching.

[Qwqwqw]

And it's not a small market. FM is one of the best selling games on the pc and not just in the UK.

I don't know, a quick Google search led me to this http://www.vgchartz.com/game/76962/football-manager-2014/. No idea how accurate it is, though. 620,000 units is not exactly a big market, if the numbers are true.

[HUNT3R]

Football Manager is already in an aggressive schedule, probably forced by the publisher. How else do you explain all the patches after the initial release and the literally hundreds of bugs that they fix?

We've always received patch fixes. Always 3 major patches for as long as I've been here, regardless of what's wrong. Them continuing to fix bugs regardless of how good or bad the release was is a good thing. Did you take nothing from Neil's posts??

[themadsheep2001]

I think, with Neil leaving a very good answer on the differences between the FM and FIFA and the arguments becoming ever more circular and off topic, that this thread has finally run it's course

[Neil Dejyothin]

It's a good thing for SI that they have no competition whatsoever, so they an afford to do things "at their own pace", not to mention some other things they also do, which they couldn't afford to do, if they had real competition.

Did anyone read what I wrote? Two identical Football Managers, one with 2D match graphics, the other one with an awesome 3D match graphics engine? That being the only difference between the two?

And of course proper competition would force them into having a faster pace and making the game even better, so that people buy that, instead of something else. Just imagine if tomorrow a new game appeared that beat Football Manager in every aspect? Think they's still be doing things "at their own pace"?

We would still work at our own pace regardless. Please don't mistake that for a sign of complacency.

I've often seen comments like this in the past, or where some think we're complacent when that couldn't be further from the truth. We're an extremely hard working studio, where it's more than a job but a lifetimes worth of work and passion. There's a frightening amount of drive here.

It doesn't have anything to do with competition. But we've been doing this for over 20 years and obviously from experience we know first hand how hard it is to make a game of this magnitude. If someone else comes along and does a better job, you know what, fair play to them, because there's no doubt they'd deserve it and we'd be the first in line to congratulate them and wanting to play.

The biggest competition we have is ourselves and bettering what we did before. That may sound a bit cliche to say but perhaps I can put some perspective on this that helps you understand. It's not uncommon for games the size of FM, including other titles out there, to have a code base between 2-3 million lines of code.

We're somewhere in between, but just imagine that for a moment and the enormity of it? Someone fresh out of university may have worked on a project that has seen around 30,000 lines of code in their lifetime, so that can give you some sense of scale. But that's why our priority and focus will always be on ourselves.

Working at our own pace means just that, no matter how slow or fast. We go at the pace that makes sense for us, and at times that will be slower and at others, we'll be in a position to put our foot down on the pedal and accelerate.