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jayahr

The Raumdeuter - odd term

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Having watched the FM15 feature video I was quite surprised to see that the 'Raumdeuter' was made a tactical role in the new FM.

I believe that this term is not really understandable because it is no real life tactical term. Therefore the term should be abolished in favour of another one for the same role.

The term 'Raumdeuter' is used only in relation to one single player, Thomas Müller. It relates to his personal abilities and styles of play. 'Deuter' also doesn't mean 'investigator' as I believe was indicated in the video footage, but rather interpreter (not translator, of course). It's an almost poetic description opf Müller's qualities to see and exploit spaces which others never realized as existing. Therefore it is very tied to Müller as a person.

To the contrary it does not relate to a tactical role and I have never heard of anybody, journalist, manager or fan, who used the term as an explanation for tactical behaviour in general or of anybody else than Müller. It is a nickname much more than anything else.

Didn't Miles translate the role as being a 'wide poacher' in the video? I think that term may be spot on and understandable to a lot more people.

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Thomas Muller is a World Cup winner so I suppose he deserves to have his style replicated in FM. People will want their players to play like him, just because of what he's done for club and country.

I'm only on about the term. It's as if one would have created a role called 'Il Fenomeno' that resembled Ronaldo's style of play.

Implementing the role itself is more than fine :)

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They really have gone overboard with the number of roles IMO. How many different names have they come up with for "second striker" for example? Should be fewer "roles" and more about how the player NATURALLY plays and their stats and preferred moves. The number of roles is needlessly complicating.

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Sounds like how Walcott was being played with Giroud - a winger but pushing up beside the main striker.

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to put them all in one place (summarised):

Roaming playmaker: Heartbeat of team, drives forward, spearheading attacks, helps out defensively. Offers passing option. Must have high physicals. Picks up ball deep and works ball forwards with urgency. Camps on edge of area looking for shot/ killer-ball

Raumdeuter: Find pockets of space to operate. Takes up harmless positions out wide, waiting for the opportunity to shoot/cross. Difficult to mark due to drifting. No defensive duties

Inverted wingback: Functions defensively like a normal wing back, but cuts inside and runs through the centre of the pitch, acting primarily as a CM while attacking

Wide playmaker: Teams primarly source of creativity. Drifts inside to find space to play the killer ball. Just clogs up space defensively. Sits as a CM while attacking and main creator

so to me

Roaming playmaker = Schweinsteiger, Young Gerrard

Raumdeuter = Robben

Inverted Wingback = Marcelo

Wide Playmaker = DiMaria, Beckham

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter in the slightest what the role is called as long as you know what it does and how it fits into your overall tactic.

This comes from the description, knowing the key attributes for the role and then watching how a player does with that role/duty during a match.

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter in the slightest what the role is called as long as you know what it does and how it fits into your overall tactic.

This comes from the description, knowing the key attributes for the role and then watching how a player does with that role/duty during a match.

I agree to some extent. It's just that FM usually picks up terms which are used in real life for tactical roles. This one is not, just pointing at that.

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter in the slightest what the role is called as long as you know what it does and how it fits into your overall tactic.

This comes from the description, knowing the key attributes for the role and then watching how a player does with that role/duty during a match.

Exactly. I don't care about the names at all , I would just like even better descriptions of everything. Since bars are removed and we're based a lot more on arbitrary terms and on/off features, the explanation texts must be as clear as possible, for everything.

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to put them all in one place (summarised):

Roaming playmaker: Heartbeat of team, drives forward, spearheading attacks, helps out defensively. Offers passing option. Must have high physicals. Picks up ball deep and works ball forwards with urgency. Camps on edge of area looking for shot/ killer-ball

Raumdeuter: Find pockets of space to operate. Takes up harmless positions out wide, waiting for the opportunity to shoot/cross. Difficult to mark due to drifting. No defensive duties

Inverted wingback: Functions defensively like a normal wing back, but cuts inside and runs through the centre of the pitch, acting primarily as a CM while attacking

Wide playmaker: Teams primarly source of creativity. Drifts inside to find space to play the killer ball. Just clogs up space defensively. Sits as a CM while attacking and main creator

so to me

Roaming playmaker = Schweinsteiger, Young Gerrard

Raumdeuter = Robben

Inverted Wingback = Marcelo

Wide Playmaker = DiMaria, Beckham

I'm inclined to agree with QWERTYOP here. Surely most of these roles could be created already? E.g.

Roaming playmaker = BBM with more creative freedom, also pick a player with high creativity and flair

Raumdeuter = IF(A) with less closing down?

Inverted Wingback = normal wing-back, played on opposite side to strongest foot, instructed to cut inside and maybe given Roam from Position and Be more Expressive PIs

Wide Playmaker = WM with more creative freedom. Also, since we can currently pick the AP role in AML/R positions, why was this needed?

I don't want this to sound overly critical of SI and the new version of FM before it's even released because I'll freely admit my tactical knowledge is not up there with the best so I could well be missing something crucial about these roles. I'll be very interested to see how they differ from what's currently available.

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I'm inclined to agree with QWERTYOP here. Surely most of these roles could be created already? E.g.

Roaming playmaker = BBM with more creative freedom, also pick a player with high creativity and flair

Raumdeuter = IF(A) with less closing down?

Inverted Wingback = normal wing-back, played on opposite side to strongest foot, instructed to cut inside and maybe given Roam from Position and Be more Expressive PIs

Wide Playmaker = WM with more creative freedom. Also, since we can currently pick the AP role in AML/R positions, why was this needed?

I don't want this to sound overly critical of SI and the new version of FM before it's even released because I'll freely admit my tactical knowledge is not up there with the best so I could well be missing something crucial about these roles. I'll be very interested to see how they differ from what's currently available.

At some point last year I was trying to recreate Simeone's Atl Madrid tactic, but was limited because the Wide Midfielder, even with more expressive, cut inside and get forward, didnt act like an Wide Playmaker would in the AM strata. The problem with Advanced Playmaker at AM strata was that they didn't defend well or almost at all, but that was a problem with almost all the players used there. So the Wide Playmaker role is definately welcomed by me and I feel it was needed. I also welcome the rest of the roles, you can get close to them by using PIs, but a BBM with more expressive for example doesn't act like a playmaker because players don't look for him when trying to build up. The way it was last year, Playmakers were prioritized by players when looking for a pass, or at least that's what I saw happen.

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They really have gone overboard with the number of roles IMO. How many different names have they come up with for "second striker" for example? Should be fewer "roles" and more about how the player NATURALLY plays and their stats and preferred moves. The number of roles is needlessly complicating.

You could indeed simply have 1 advanced striker role, 1 deep striker role, 1 AMR role etc and simply pick and choose your player instructions to make them play how you would like.

The problem with this is despite it appearing simpler it is infact more complicated for a lot of users who in its current set up can just mix & match roles and leave the player instructions alone.

SI seem to have firmly gone down the player role route and this year seem to be putting even more emphasis on this.

I can't quite imagine Wayne Rooney being told at half time "i want you to stop playing as a 'Defensive Forward' and play like a 'False 9' in the 2nd half, ok?"

In this sense i don't think its realistic but it does work well in game.

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I can't quite imagine Wayne Rooney being told at half time "i want you to stop playing as a 'Defensive Forward' and play like a 'False 9' in the 2nd half, ok?"

In this sense i don't think its realistic but it does work well in game.

You're forgetting the descriptions for those roles, along with the PI screen.

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I think the roles just make it quicker to set up how you want the player to play - the description tells you what he should do and you see what attributes are important. You could probably take one of the basic roles - CM, for example - and then add player instructions to make the player behave a certain way, or you just select the role that matches most what you like him to do.

As for the Wide Playmaker, I had several saves in FM14, where I played with ML/MR and would have loved to have this playmaker role.

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I'm inclined to agree with QWERTYOP here. Surely most of these roles could be created already? E.g.

Roaming playmaker = BBM with more creative freedom, also pick a player with high creativity and flair

Raumdeuter = IF(A) with less closing down?

Inverted Wingback = normal wing-back, played on opposite side to strongest foot, instructed to cut inside and maybe given Roam from Position and Be more Expressive PIs

Wide Playmaker = WM with more creative freedom. Also, since we can currently pick the AP role in AML/R positions, why was this needed?

I don't want this to sound overly critical of SI and the new version of FM before it's even released because I'll freely admit my tactical knowledge is not up there with the best so I could well be missing something crucial about these roles. I'll be very interested to see how they differ from what's currently available.

But remember that (basically) how you've created those roles is exactly how they are created in the game...

Under the hood it's still basically a combination of factors, if you could see the "slider" settings, you may find that they are indeed close to how you have described.

EDIT: A better way of articulating myself is...It's not really that a new style of play has been created, more that the style is now a preset option, rather than you "creating" it yourself using a combination of instructions.

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agree 100% with the OP. Only heard of it in relation to Thomas Mueller, maybe once... as his nickname.

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You couldn't create a Roaming Playmaker from a BBM, nor a Wide Playmaker from a Wide Midfielder for one simple reason - they wouldn't attract the ball in the way a true playmaker does in the FM ME. Those two Roles promise to offer something we couldn't do before. Not so sure about how to best incorporate the Inverted Wing Back, but I can see a case for that being added.

I assume the Raumdeuter to be a roaming wide man without a playmaker focus, so this again will differ from what we were able to do on FM14 with the out-of -the-box Roles, and with the modifications we can make to those generic Roles. Sounds vaguely like an AML/R Treq with an eye for goal.

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You couldn't create a Roaming Playmaker from a BBM, nor a Wide Playmaker from a Wide Midfielder for one simple reason - they wouldn't attract the ball in the way a true playmaker does in the FM ME. Those two Roles promise to offer something we couldn't do before. Not so sure about how to best incorporate the Inverted Wing Back, but I can see a case for that being added.

I assume the Raumdeuter to be a roaming wide man without a playmaker focus, so this again will differ from what we were able to do on FM14 with the out-of -the-box Roles, and with the modifications we can make to those generic Roles. Sounds vaguely like an AML/R Treq with an eye for goal.

It was possible until SI excluded Playmaker box from the game.

Also, the guy who mentioned "Wayne, stop playing as a DF and start playing as a F9" got the point. It's not about the roles, but instructions, and that's why previous system was better. And even more realistic, I'd say.

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It was possible until SI excluded Playmaker box from the game.

Also, the guy who mentioned "Wayne, stop playing as a DF and start playing as a F9" got the point. It's not about the roles, but instructions, and that's why previous system was better. And even more realistic, I'd say.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

However, the game began a journey in this direction when the TC was introduced, and took another step last year with the removal of the sliders.

Talking about the past will not change the way the game is going.

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They really have gone overboard with the number of roles IMO. How many different names have they come up with for "second striker" for example? Should be fewer "roles" and more about how the player NATURALLY plays and their stats and preferred moves. The number of roles is needlessly complicating.

+100. I'd prefer to drop the roles and introduce the slider bars.

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It was possible until SI excluded Playmaker box from the game.

Also, the guy who mentioned "Wayne, stop playing as a DF and start playing as a F9" got the point. It's not about the roles, but instructions, and that's why previous system was better. And even more realistic, I'd say.

The roles are just names for a collection of instructions and behaviours inherent to the type of role described.

Jesus, people will moan about anything these days.

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+100. I'd prefer to drop the roles and introduce the slider bars.

Then you'd be setting the match engine back five years.

Seriously, I begin to wonder if the people who complain about this sort of thing actually understand what they're seeing in their matches.

Actually, I don't begin to wonder. I've pretty much accepted that some people are incapable of seeing what's actually happening and instead invent an interpretation to help explain their inadequacies within the game.

Load up a slider-based FM and try and get someone playing as an anchorman (as an example). Then do the same in FM14. If you can look at both and still say the sliders are better, you really should visit the tactical forum and start discussing how the roles actually work.

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For those moaning about SI adding more roles... More roles available allows for different styles of tactics available, I don't understand how that is a bad thing?

It is a bad thing because it becomes much more easy to trip oneself by using a reasonably-sounding but very unsuitable role. And the game becomes unplayable without reading through multiple guides, and in a month or two you forget anyway what's the difference between second striker, trequartista and enganche.

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No, you don't. It's all written down inside the game and it's easy enough to see what they do by watching the game.

99% of people didn't know what the sliders actually did.

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I'm the opposite, I want more roles, more options, more! All four added this year interest me greatly, especially the Raumdeuter and Roaming Playmaker.

I'd love a CB that can push forward more aggressively(than a BPD) on the ball like a Libero that plays from CB, along with quite a few others. Still, there are always ways around to get what you're after.

EDIT: That said, I have no clue what the sliders are, or did.

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I'm with Ackman and BoxToBox.

More roles please. If owt, I'm disappointed there are only four new roles. I'd certainly like more GK options, though I've no idea what's missing :D

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I have played CM/FM for 21 years and I have / had no idea what the sliders did at all, in fact they were, by far, my biggest frustration with the game. What (other than 4) was the difference between 9 & 13...Pass...

That said I would still like to see more debate / help threads on how to get your players in FM playing a certain way (that either mirrors a real life individual, or a new / retro concept).

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Raumdeuter isn't simply a nickname but actually what Muller calls his role in the sense of his tactical function on the pitch, so I don't really see the problem here.

Also, translating terms from German to English is not as simple as plugging something into Google translate, and while there's always room for debate in translation, there are articles on Bundesliga.com and Bundesligafantatic.com which back up "space investigator" as a valid indication of the most accurate sense of the phrase.

Of course, in real life, there isn't really a consistent international standard for labeling tactical roles, so to model real world tactical roles, FM occasionally has to settle on a more specific definition where the meaning of something might be somewhat different between two different coaches from two different backgrounds.

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They really have gone overboard with the number of roles IMO. How many different names have they come up with for "second striker" for example? Should be fewer "roles" and more about how the player NATURALLY plays and their stats and preferred moves. The number of roles is needlessly complicating.

I think that's pretty spot on.

SI, I guess, are caught between rock and hard place of having a complex in-depth game like a Paradox game over a game that is fun to play.

Ackter, if some people don't understand the new model enough to enjoy it , is that the customer's fault or problem or SI's?? They go hand in hand I guess.

The roles are much easier for me than the sliders, but QWERTYOP makes a good point; it's getting a bit much now imvvvvvvho.

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I'm with Ackman and BoxToBox.

More roles please. If owt, I'm disappointed there are only four new roles. I'd certainly like more GK options, though I've no idea what's missing :D

I don't believe Sweeper(a) covers the insanity of Neuer, who has been spotted past the halfway line in open play. Perhaps some kind of BoomKeeper! :D

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I'm with Bill Shankley in the "football is a simple game, complicated by idiots" camp.

Just get better players than the opposition, use logic to cover as much of the pitch as possible in defence and attack (or with the ball and without it) and sit back to enjoy.

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I think that's pretty spot on.

SI, I guess, are caught between rock and hard place of having a complex in-depth game like a Paradox game over a game that is fun to play.

Ackter, if some people don't understand the new model enough to enjoy it , is that the customer's fault or problem or SI's?? They go hand in hand I guess.

The roles are much easier for me than the sliders, but QWERTYOP makes a good point; it's getting a bit much now imvvvvvvho.

If they don't understand the new model (Presume you mean TC) they have very little chance of understanding the previous sliders.

I also really don't see whats complicated about it either, at most you have a choice of six? roles for a striker some of which have different duties so in essence you have a choice of 10 roles/duties for a striker, how is that complicated? Other positions have even less choice compare that to the 999,999,999 options you had with sliders.

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It is a bad thing because it becomes much more easy to trip oneself by using a reasonably-sounding but very unsuitable role. And the game becomes unplayable without reading through multiple guides, and in a month or two you forget anyway what's the difference between second striker, trequartista and enganche.

I've never read a guide in my life yet have no trouble putting together workable tactics.

All you need is an ounce of common sense and the ability to read.

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If they don't understand the new model (Presume you mean TC) they have very little chance of understanding the previous sliders.

I also really don't see whats complicated about it either, at most you have a choice of six? roles for a striker some of which have different duties so in essence you have a choice of 10 roles/duties for a striker, how is that complicated? Other positions have even less choice compare that to the 999,999,999 options you had with sliders.

I'm with you, and agree.

But to say "I've pretty much accepted that some people are incapable of seeing what's actually happening and instead invent an interpretation to help explain their inadequacies within the game" are hardly helpful to anyone are they??

There was enough threads here for FM14 of customers struggling with gripping the game tactic and player roles to make you think some simple help is needed instead of blaming the customer or just sending them to a tactics forum.

Some of the in-game help and aids is not only bad, it's actually counter-productive i.e. the ass man telling you you're being overloaded and struggling in midfield when 4-0 up.

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You could indeed simply have 1 advanced striker role, 1 deep striker role, 1 AMR role etc and simply pick and choose your player instructions to make them play how you would like.

The problem with this is despite it appearing simpler it is infact more complicated for a lot of users who in its current set up can just mix & match roles and leave the player instructions alone.

SI seem to have firmly gone down the player role route and this year seem to be putting even more emphasis on this.

I can't quite imagine Wayne Rooney being told at half time "i want you to stop playing as a 'Defensive Forward' and play like a 'False 9' in the 2nd half, ok?"

In this sense i don't think its realistic but it does work well in game.

Actually I think the roles do make the game more realistic , and having more roles would be even better.

Here's an example : Let's say SAF told Rooney how he wanted to play in a game, and those instructions would imply Rooney playing as what we call a "Defensive Forward". So it's like SAF explained to Rooney what a DF was, which the game does(I slightly agree that it could be more detailed ) when we read the Role Descriptions. So Rooney does that in the match. But the realistic thing is, SAF wouldn't have to explain to Rooney every time what that role does, he would just have to say: Wayne, you need to play like a Defensive Forward today. No way would he say: Wayne, you`re striker today and then keep on repeating the same instructions he said times and times before.

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Raumdeuter isn't simply a nickname but actually what Muller calls his role in the sense of his tactical function on the pitch, so I don't really see the problem here.

No, it was his answer to the question: What is Thomas Mueller? It is more like a discripton "world class dribbler", "tireless midfielder"..., but nobody would say Player XY plays as a Raumdeuter.

And it was meant as a joke because it sounds odd.

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I'm with Bill Shankley in the "football is a simple game, complicated by idiots" camp.

Just get better players than the opposition, use logic to cover as much of the pitch as possible in defence and attack (or with the ball and without it) and sit back to enjoy.

The game accommodates multiple styles of play and management. You can use simple and generally balanced tactics, relying more on hard working or superior players to adapt, or you can micro manage, going to extremes to exploit any possible advantage and delve deeply into experimenting with principles and systems of play.

The fact that the game gives you options doesn't mean you have to use them.

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Actually I think the roles do make the game more realistic , and having more roles would be even better.

Here's an example : Let's say SAF told Rooney how he wanted to play in a game, and those instructions would imply Rooney playing as what we call a "Defensive Forward". So it's like SAF explained to Rooney what a DF was, which the game does(I slightly agree that it could be more detailed ) when we read the Role Descriptions. So Rooney does that in the match. But the realistic thing is, SAF wouldn't have to explain to Rooney every time what that role does, he would just have to say: Wayne, you need to play like a Defensive Forward today. No way would he say: Wayne, you`re striker today and then keep on repeating the same instructions he said times and times before.

In these cases, I'd imagine, it'd be a case more of saying, "Wanye, press the CB's and force some errors", then at half time perhaps say, "now I want you to drop deep and dictate the game instead", or "sit high and look for a chance to break their D line and score", or whatever. Surely the most of it will be worked on the training ground throughout the week.

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Fun fact: The first time Müller was called Raumdeuter was by himself during an interview he gave SZ in January 2011, where he struggled to find a self-description. Good thing is, he hasn't just got flair on the pitch but off as well:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/thomas-mueller-im-gespraech-ich-bin-ein-raumdeuter-1.1043798

Q: It's difficult to compare your style of play with other players. Do you know one?

Müller: No, somehow I'm different indeed. There are dribblers who are very similar to each other; strikers as well. What kind of player am I?

Q: So what kind of player is Thomas Müller?

Müller: Hum. Well, what am I? Raumdeuter? Yes, I am a Raumdeuter. That's a good headline, isn't it?

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No, it was his answer to the question: What is Thomas Mueller? It is more like a discripton "world class dribbler", "tireless midfielder"..., but nobody would say Player XY plays as a Raumdeuter.

And it was meant as a joke because it sounds odd.

He was describing how he operates as a player in comparison to others players who typically operate in his position. Specifically, he was distinguishing himself from wingers who rely more on pace and dribbling which is presumably what distinguishes the role mechanically from others in the game. So it's not a vague, metaphorical nickname like "Il Fenomeno" or "El Pistolero" but actually an attempt to more precisely describe how he operates in respect to technique and principles of play.

Is it a little tongue-in-cheek? Sure, but why does it need to be dead serious? Roles are not strictly defined in real life and not all tactical roles have clear, consistent labels. Other roles might have labels we use normally that SI can't use due to licensing reasons ("The Muller Role," "The Lahm Role," etc.) Here, it's being used as a short hand for a player instructed not to overcomplicate his play on the ball but to rely more heavily on highly dynamic movement. If you don't like the label, it has zero mechanical impact on the game, so you can ignore it or, if it really bothers you that much, propose an alternative that does a similar job of precisely describing its function.

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But to say "I've pretty much accepted that some people are incapable of seeing what's actually happening and instead invent an interpretation to help explain their inadequacies within the game" are hardly helpful to anyone are they??

There was enough threads here for FM14 of customers struggling with gripping the game tactic and player roles to make you think some simple help is needed instead of blaming the customer or just sending them to a tactics forum.

I came to the conclusion years ago that the bulk of football fans and by default FM users think they know more about tactics than they actually do and this is where the problem lies. You can sit in any pub, go to any ground and its easy to see by just listening to some of the rubbish that gets said.

Now that you need to be more proactive in terms of tactics rather than just using the same single one game after game alongside SI closing some of the weaknesses in the ME it means FM suddenly becomes a lot more difficult and the lack of knowledge suddenly rises to the surface.

Some of those users accept their knowledge is lacking and make the effort to improve it whilst others refuse to accept they are doing anything wrong resulting in the threads we've seen this past year.

The question I think it comes down to: "Is it SI's job to teach tactics?"

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Surely there's more important things to worry about?

Of course there is! Doesn't force us to stop improving details though :)

Miles explained the role as being a wide poacher. Much better description imho :)

When the Trequartista and the Enganche terms were introduced they were so because they are common tactical terms in... wherever they come from. The Raumdeuter is a nickname of one specific player and no manager in the world ever instructed any player to take that role by this name.

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Miles explained the role as being a wide poacher. Much better description imho :)
I didn't look to see if we know what description the role will have, but if Miles described it as a wide poacher, I'm pretty sure he description will tell you this as well. Best thing to do is try the Demo/Beta/Full Game and see if the description of the role is adequate.

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When the Trequartista and the Enganche terms were introduced they were so because they are common tactical terms in... wherever they come from. The Raumdeuter is a nickname of one specific player and no manager in the world ever instructed any player to take that role by this name.

Managers don't really use those terms either in the sense that you don't walk up to Wesley Sneijder and say "Okay, you're a trequartista" and he knows exactly what you mean. Rather, they design and drill patterns of play with highly specific instructions in the context of a system which fans and the press notice, label and attach to individual players. Roles are a real concept in tactics, but they're more of an implied part of a manager's overall tactical system and, as such, aren't really strictly labeled. In FM, then, firmly defining specific roles help bridge the gap between complex tactical terminology/theory and concepts that come up more in the popular imagination, allowing common sets of instructions to be bundled together under a common label.

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Actually I think the roles do make the game more realistic , and having more roles would be even better.

Here's an example : Let's say SAF told Rooney how he wanted to play in a game, and those instructions would imply Rooney playing as what we call a "Defensive Forward". So it's like SAF explained to Rooney what a DF was, which the game does(I slightly agree that it could be more detailed ) when we read the Role Descriptions. So Rooney does that in the match. But the realistic thing is, SAF wouldn't have to explain to Rooney every time what that role does, he would just have to say: Wayne, you need to play like a Defensive Forward today. No way would he say: Wayne, you`re striker today and then keep on repeating the same instructions he said times and times before.

I get that the player roles are used to imply a set of instructions & behavior and as stated in my post it works well for the purposes of FM, but i doubt in a 'real' situation those terms are freely banded about dressing rooms, i doubt SAF has ever used the word Trequartista in any team talk his whole career. He has probably told a player to 'have a free role, drift about and find space' a few times.

Most of them are labels made up by pundits & the media.

But like I said, it works for FM and should make setting up tactics easier for many.

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In these cases, I'd imagine, it'd be a case more of saying, "Wanye, press the CB's and force some errors", then at half time perhaps say, "now I want you to drop deep and dictate the game instead", or "sit high and look for a chance to break their D line and score", or whatever. Surely the most of it will be worked on the training ground throughout the week.

Yes, exactly. But it all starts as a role, and then continues with player instructions, in real life and football manager. That's why I'm for more roles and like the PIs a lot more than the sliders. Just imagine SAF telling Rooney : Wayne, drop deeper. No, deeper. Little More. 2 meters more. Thats it. Now be more creative. Even more.

I think the way the game is right now reflects reality and like the direction it's heading.

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I didn't look to see if we know what description the role will have, but if Miles described it as a wide poacher, I'm pretty sure he description will tell you this as well. Best thing to do is try the Demo/Beta/Full Game and see if the description of the role is adequate.

The descriptions that were shown in the vid were incredibly well done, clear concise overviews of the role, I'd like it if they went back to all the other roles and tweaked their descriptions to be more similar. In this case it even gives a few notes on how to fit the role into the team.

Raumdeuter_zpsaf727339.png

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Agreed. I didn't have a clue what a Raumdeuter was, but that description is quite clear. I imagine the other roles would have a review of their descriptions at least.

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The game accommodates multiple styles of play and management. You can use simple and generally balanced tactics, relying more on hard working or superior players to adapt, or you can micro manage, going to extremes to exploit any possible advantage and delve deeply into experimenting with principles and systems of play.

The fact that the game gives you options doesn't mean you have to use them.

I think that nails it. That just needs to be made more obvious in-game. God knows how.

I came to the conclusion years ago that the bulk of football fans and by default FM users think they know more about tactics than they actually do and this is where the problem lies. You can sit in any pub, go to any ground and its easy to see by just listening to some of the rubbish that gets said.

Now that you need to be more proactive in terms of tactics rather than just using the same single one game after game alongside SI closing some of the weaknesses in the ME it means FM suddenly becomes a lot more difficult and the lack of knowledge suddenly rises to the surface.

Some of those users accept their knowledge is lacking and make the effort to improve it whilst others refuse to accept they are doing anything wrong resulting in the threads we've seen this past year.

The question I think it comes down to: "Is it SI's job to teach tactics?"

That also I can agree with. Everyone knowing better than Wenger/England manager/Man U manager makes the game irl what it is. It engages people as fans though. Even those of us who couldn't manage the Dog and Duck 3rd team in a pub league like to think we know better than the real people. That's fun, that's all.

To engage customers is SI's job, SI only need to sell a game and do a better job by far than I could/would but there's a problem if it gets over-complex??

Or maybe there isn't. What do I know. I like roles over sliders x1000 but just don't want to see the game following it's own arse and forgetting what makes it fun.

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